FORUMS: list search recent posts

A list of FCP X frustrations...

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro X

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Quintus Lubbe
A list of FCP X frustrations...
on Jan 24, 2014 at 5:08:40 pm

I'm wondering if someone can guide me in the right direction.

I dabbled with FCP X around the 10.0.8 mark but always returned to my faithful 7. When 10.1 came out recently I decided to give FCP X a whirl again, but there are a few issues that I'm really struggling to get my head around.

1.) My biggest issue is the timeline. The magnetic timeline definitely has it's benefits and I can see how it can save a considerable amount of time but I find audio editing a nightmare. When I need to cut a montage and have to time music very specifically to the edit I often cut up a track to suit a certain duration. But I've found that when I cut up my track the second (third, fourth) part of the track is connected to a different clip in the primary storyline than the first. When I then start shifting clips around and adjusting clip durations, because the music is attached to different clips my track edit slips out of sync and I have to go back and adjust the music edit again. I know I can use a compound clip once I've completed the track edit but what if that needs to change later as well. Then I have to do the whole track edit again.

I understand the trackless environment, I just don't see why clips above or below the storyline have to be connected to it. Why can't they happily exist without having to be connected to anything else. I've never had a problem with lasoo selecting the clips that I need to move before.

2.) I also keep fighting a battle between the skimmer and the needle in the timeline. The default seems to be that a cut is made where the skimmer head lies and because I'm doing a fine edit on the timeline using JKL and the arrow keys, which move the playhead needle, I keep having to undo cuts as they're made where my mouse is lying on the timeline, i.e. The skimming needle.

3.) I also find the skimmer inaccurate. In the event browser in list view there is no way to zoom into a selected clip so, for example, skimming a clip that is 4 minutes long results in skimming a great deal of footage with only a small movement of the mouse. I know that this can be adjusted when working in clip view, but I'm not a fan of that layout.

4.) Audio being connected to video is great but when I want to fade in a piece of audio connected to a clip under the last second or two of the previous clip, I expand the clip to show the audio, drag the audio out, fade in using the fader slide. But then I can't collapse the clip again without losing my fade. Keeping clips expanded wastes a lot of real estate in your timeline. This IMHO is a major flaw in the trackless environment.

Any advice on these points would be much appreciated. Perhaps I'm just not getting it yet...but I'm feeling a strong attraction to 7 again, my safe and happy place.


Return to posts index

Don Smith
Re: A list of FCP X frustrations...
on Jan 24, 2014 at 5:50:45 pm

As for the Magnetic Timeline... While I still have a nit or two about it I myself I could never go back to 7 or any track-based NLE for that matter. Just couldn't.

As for your audio clips connected to the wrong things I have a couple of suggestions...

I, and many others, will use the primary storyline for the 'spine' of the edit. If all is based on one or more audio clips then make those audio clips your primary storyline and connect relevant video to the audio it represents. That way, move the audio and the right video will always move with it and keep everything organized.

Or...

Know that there are ways to approach your issues... For one, holding the Option and Command keys while you click on a connected clip will move its connection point. When I'm in that position I'll connect a connected clip to another spot, possibly a clip that won't be changing, to get my edit done.

Also know that you can override a connection. The grave (gr-AH-ve) key will invoke a yellow circle with a connection icon in black. Looks like a 7th Cav patch to me. While the Override Connection key is enabled you can move a clip in the primary storyline without dragging along any clips connected to it. There's a trick to keeping the Override Connection key in effect. Press the grave key (that's the key to the left of the ONE key on the top row at the far left) and while holding it down press the Command key, then release the grave key first followed by the Command key. I call it a 'rocking' motion. With the 7th Cav patch visible hold the T key and click and drag within a clip in the primary story line and you'll slip the video within that clip without influencing any connected clip.

Also, don't forget the Position key - 'P'. It sort of takes you back to acting like a track-based editor.

That's all for today but I'll leave you with my absolute dedication to FCPX. I sometimes have to deal with 7 and I just cringe over how it feels like a buggy whip. Just out of its time.

NewsVideo.com


Return to posts index

Quintus Lubbe
Re: A list of FCP X frustrations...
on Jan 24, 2014 at 5:58:44 pm

Thanks, Don. I'll give that a try. Think it takes some getting used to though and I'm not always sure that it is necessary to have clips above or below the primary storyline connected to clips in the primary. It would be great if you could choose when you wanted this functionality and when not. Glue some of the clips but not others.


Return to posts index


Bill Davis
Re: A list of FCP X frustrations...
on Jan 25, 2014 at 12:43:21 am

Quintus,

A lot of us here have long held the opinion that the longer a person has been editing in another NLE, the more difficult a time they'll have adapting to X.

It's not ALWAYS true, but it's very often so.

It's clearly and unmistakably different from any other NLE. And so approaching it as if it's going to react like another NLE will always be frustrating at best.

Many years ago, I was told that it takes most people about 3 months of immersion in a new environment to feel that it's their "normal" one.

I suspect that's pretty accurate. If you can manage to use it for 3 months (more or less to the exclusion of any other NLE) then I suspect that like most of us here - you'll open your old NLE and literally be AGHAST at how slow, constraining and old-fashioned it feels.

But you've GOT to decide to take the leap forward and jettison your past reflexes - or just resign yourself to moving to Premier or another NLE that works within the older fixed timeline model.

You'll be more comfortable, for sure. The question is what happens if X continues to catch on with those who value it's speed, flexibility and internal database driven approach - will you eventually be at a competitive disadvantage because you couldn't find the patience to adapt earlier?

Nobody knows that answer for sure. All I know is that it's REALLY hard to locate folks who've truly become proficient at X who say they'd be happy going back to their prior editing software. There ARE some, of course, but very, very few from what I've read around the net.

YMMV.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


Return to posts index

Jason Jenkins
Re: A list of FCP X frustrations...
on Jan 25, 2014 at 5:22:43 am

[Bill Davis] "you'll open your old NLE and literally be AGHAST at how slow, constraining and old-fashioned it feels."

I tried to edit something in Premiere CC a while back and I could hardly stand it. It felt like work!

Jason Jenkins
Flowmotion Media
Video production... with style!

Check out my Mormon.org profile.


Return to posts index

Quintus Lubbe
Re: A list of FCP X frustrations...
on Jan 25, 2014 at 7:32:20 am

[Bill Davis] "A lot of us here have long held the opinion that the longer a person has been editing in another NLE, the more difficult a time they'll have adapting to X."

I know what you mean... I've spent 8 years in FCP 7 and am finding this change quite difficult indeed.

[Bill Davis] "But you've GOT to decide to take the leap forward and jettison your past reflexes"

Have made that decision thanks to all the great suggestions and encouragement I've received on the forum. Knowing that there are other professional FCP X users so willing to help makes a major difference. Thanks again!


Return to posts index


Trevor Asquerthian
Re: A list of FCP X frustrations...
on Jan 24, 2014 at 6:34:46 pm

[Quintus Lubbe] "When I need to cut a montage and have to time music very specifically to the edit I often cut up a track to suit a certain duration. But I've found that when I cut up my track the second (third, fourth) part of the track is connected to a different clip in the primary storyline than the first. When I then start shifting clips around and adjusting clip durations, because the music is attached to different clips my track edit slips out of sync and I have to go back and adjust the music edit again."

I asked a similar question here .

Mostly you need to put the music in a compound secondary storyline I think.

Whilst you can edit audio into the primary storyline, if you move it out to a secondary you can't put it back into the primary.



[Quintus Lubbe] "I also keep fighting a battle between the skimmer and the needle in the timeline. The default seems to be that a cut is made where the skimmer head lies and because I'm doing a fine edit on the timeline using JKL and the arrow keys, which move the playhead needle, I keep having to undo cuts as they're made where my mouse is lying on the timeline, i.e. The skimming needle."

For this I think you need to get into turning skimming off and on in the timeline as you need it.



Return to posts index

Quintus Lubbe
Re: A list of FCP X frustrations...
on Jan 24, 2014 at 7:20:12 pm
Last Edited By Quintus Lubbe on Jan 24, 2014 at 7:29:52 pm

Hi, Trevor

[Trevor Asquerthian] "Mostly you need to put the music in a compound secondary storyline I think."

I put this as a suggestion in my original post, but what if you then needed to edit the music in the compound clip. Wouldn't that mean going back and forth between the compound clip and the original timeline. Eesh...

[Trevor Asquerthian] "For this I think you need to get into turning skimming off and on in the timeline as you need it."

I hear you. I've spent the whole day hitting "s" only after making the cut, hitting "cmd z" and making the cut again!
Problem I find with using only the playback needle is that there's no audio scrubbing. I tend to rely on audio scrubbing in the timeline quite a bit and am a bit lost without it otherwise I would turn skimming off in the timeline altogether.

Thanks for the suggestions though!


Return to posts index

Paul Figgiani
Re: A list of FCP X frustrations...
on Jan 24, 2014 at 6:52:55 pm

Quintus,

Re. #4 - You mean something like this? ...



... and then Collapse Audio? This works for me here. That crossfade is retained after I collapse.

-paul.


Return to posts index


Quintus Lubbe
Re: A list of FCP X frustrations...
on Jan 24, 2014 at 7:03:13 pm

Hi, Paul

Yes that's it! Didn't realize it kept the xfade as visually it looks like it just disappears.

Thanks very much!


Return to posts index

Paul Figgiani
Re: A list of FCP X frustrations...
on Jan 24, 2014 at 7:19:48 pm

[Quintus Lubbe] " Re: A list of FCP X frustrations...
by Quintus Lubbe on Jan 24, 2014 at 2:03:13 pm

Hi, Paul

Yes that's it! Didn't realize it kept the xfade as visually it looks like it just disappears.

Thanks very much!"


Cool. Glad it worked out. And don't forget in 10.1 you can now roll the audio of adjoining clips independent of their associated video.

-paul.


Return to posts index

Andy Neil
Re: A list of FCP X frustrations...
on Jan 24, 2014 at 8:11:43 pm

1) You don't need a compound or separate connected clips. Just put the song into a secondary storyline. It acts similar to the primary storyline allowing you to continue to make edits to the music (audio) without opening a separate timeline (as in the case with compound clips). There is only one connection point for the secondary storyline.

Also, as others have stated, holding the tilde (or grave key) will suspend connections to allow you to swap clips in the primary without moving connected clips.

2) Skimmer takes some time to get used to. What I tend to do (aside from turning it on an off) is get in the habit of moving the mouse out of the timeline to the middle bar section when switching to JKL editing. I just do it unconsciously these days so I don't accidentally edit to the skimmer.

3) The list view clip view can be made longer by increasing the size of the event browser. This is much better with a 2 monitor set up, but I do what I can to get that strip as large as I can because I hate the the icon view too. A lot of times I just use JKL in the event browser if I have a longer clip as it seems a little easier. CMD+1 activates the event browser.

4) As others have said, it's just visually hiding the edit, the fade still works. I would suggest that if this is something you do a lot, map the Expand All and Collapse All Clips shortcuts to your keyboard shortcuts. It'll help you out (at least the Collapse All).

Andy

http://www.timesavertutorials.com


Return to posts index


Brett Sherman
Re: A list of FCP X frustrations...
on Jan 24, 2014 at 8:42:34 pm

The way I work with music generally is I put it in a secondary storyline. I find it much better than the traditional way of editing music with FCP 7 because when you slide or adjust timing slightly it doesn't screw up your video track. And if your video is just a second short to make it to a music edit it's easy to add time to the video without altering your audio edits.

The one drawback is that an edit towards the beginning of a secondary storyline will change timing later on. In cases, where I want an exact section of music at an exact point, I'll make a second secondary storyline so it stays locked to the video at that point.

With magnetic or non-magnetic there is always problem solving that goes on to get music to work with the edits whenever you make a change. I'd come down on the side of saying that magnetic makes it slightly easier. But it's pretty much a wash.



Return to posts index

Paul Figgiani
Re: A list of FCP X frustrations...
on Jan 24, 2014 at 8:44:13 pm
Last Edited By Paul Figgiani on Jan 24, 2014 at 9:09:48 pm

[Andy Neil] "Re: A list of FCP X frustrations...
by Andy Neil on Jan 24, 2014 at 3:11:43 pm

4) As others have said, it's just visually hiding the edit, the fade still works. I would suggest that if this is something you do a lot, map the Expand All and Collapse All Clips shortcuts to your keyboard shortcuts. It'll help you out (at least the Collapse All).

Andy"


Good tip, Andy. I use (⌃ ⌥ S) to expand all selected clips, or with no selection - what ever clip the played is parked over.

-paul.


Return to posts index

Bret Williams
Re: A list of FCP X frustrations...
on Jan 24, 2014 at 10:50:59 pm
Last Edited By Bret Williams on Jan 25, 2014 at 1:36:49 am

That is show audio components, not expand. My shortcut for expand all is shift+E. Then shift+cmd+e to collapse all. Usually I'm working on a couple clips so I just expand all so I don't have to select them or learn 2 different shortcuts. Expand all and collapse all. Occasionally I'll expand 1 by double clicking on the lower audio half of the clip.

Ctrl opt s is audio components. A step deeper where you can see and adjust the channels separately. In there you can use the range tool to disable just parts of a clip, or turn off particular channels, etc.


Return to posts index


Robert Castiglione
Re: A list of FCP X frustrations...
on Jan 25, 2014 at 1:14:45 am

I agree with Bill's observations and that reflects my precise experience. I know this forum is about technique so I will be brief. I had Initial extreme resistance to fcp x as I had become wedded to fcp 7. Several perfunctory attempts at learning fcp x did not help the situation. However, then I decided on deep immersion and there did come an a moment of epiphany when I internalised the new logic of the programme. It takes at least a month of really working at it hard. In particular, I had to develop new editing strategies to deal with the magnetic timeline before I could move forward. All I can say is that it was worth the trouble.


Return to posts index

Quintus Lubbe
Re: A list of FCP X frustrations...
on Jan 25, 2014 at 7:23:31 am

Thanks to you all for the suggestions, tips and encouragement. Moving into the FCP X world is truly daunting as it involves changing your mindset completely but I am determined to stick with it and learn!

As has been said here, it takes about 3 months to become familiar with working in a new environment and when you're trying to earn a living on short deadlines the temptation to fall back to familiar territory is immense (in my case Legacy). But with the enthusiasm shown here I'm determined not to fall back to my old ways.

There is another issue that I'm finding on X which is killing me right now. When I hit the spacebar in the timeline, there is a brief pause before it starts playing and then again shortly after playing, audio continues happily along, but video will freeze and then pick up again. As you can understand, this makes editing quite frustrating (especially when you're already climbing that learning curve!) when you're not receiving immediate responsiveness from your GUI. I did a mavericks install over mountain lion and am wondering if that's the problem. Anyone else had this issue?

Thanks again!


Return to posts index

Quintus Lubbe
Re: A list of FCP X frustrations...
on Jan 25, 2014 at 8:02:15 am

My system Mac Pro 4.1, 16 GB Ram, Ati Radeon 5770.


Return to posts index


Don Smith
Re: A list of FCP X frustrations...
on Jan 25, 2014 at 11:42:23 am

I have exactly the same system, Mac Pro 4,1 (2009) and the Ati Radeon 5770 graphics card at work and experience the same sluggishness. However, I come home to my mid-2012 MacBook Pro (Thunderbolt) and don't. I have the Full Monty new Mac Pro on order and CANNOT WAIT to have more fluidity under my fingertips!

NewsVideo.com


Return to posts index

james Lackleter
Re: A list of FCP X frustrations...
on Jan 25, 2014 at 3:03:07 pm

Just don't my friend. Please look at some of the issues I posted. Create a large project with over 50 tracks and see for yourself.


Return to posts index

Mathieu Ghekiere
Re: A list of FCP X frustrations...
on Jan 26, 2014 at 10:56:34 pm

Hi Quintus,

Everyone here already gave you most of your advice you wanted and I echo everything that is being said about FCPX and taking the time to learn it. After a while you will THINK in terms of: will I put this in the primary or Connected? And even more, after a while you will make better judgements more quickly (like with any program you get used to). Believe, I also came from 7.

About your sluggishness: I'm not going to pretend I know what the problem is, just tell you that we upgraded 3 retina MBP's at work to Mavericks and FCPX and were getting awful performance (beach balls and the same pauses you mentioned). A clean install fixed it all...
I have heard similar reports from some other forum members.


Return to posts index

David Powell
Re: A list of FCP X frustrations...
on Jan 27, 2014 at 8:20:14 am

I have the same pause and play problem with a 2011 I7 3.4. I've found that quitting and restarting the program generally makes it go away.


Return to posts index

Quintus Lubbe
Re: A list of FCP X frustrations...
on Jan 27, 2014 at 4:57:47 pm

Just figured out what the problem was. When I hit play in the timeline, I noticed that the inspector window was loading the clips info almost like a "gang" function. This was obviously chewing up resources because when I then closed the Inspector window, VOILA! The problem disappeared. No more pausing, shuddering. Then new MP's probably wont have this issue, but I've still got to keep mine running for at least the next 2 years!


Return to posts index

David Cooke
Re: A list of FCP X frustrations...
on Sep 1, 2015 at 2:42:49 pm

I heartily agree and say "Amen" to your list of frustrations, plus a few more. Guess it is true, the longer you are on FCP 7 or another, the harder it is to adapt. Been on FCP X now for 8 months, but still have FCP 7 in the 2nd suite. I love many things about "X", but wish they could have taken all those and just put them into 7. The magnetic timeline has caused me more pain than it has helped. Sometimes, I "watch" the timeline to see where things are going to "jump" or what "X" is going to do when I delete something or have to "swap" a clip. I can edit faster in "X", BUT if I have to make a revision, it takes me LONGER in "X" than in "7". I've never had "lip sync" issues in 7, But now, I'm having them in "X". Why can't "X" tell you how far an audio clip has been "knocked out" of sync. Like the little red box in FCP 7. Learning more each day, but still frustrated on some things.
David

D's Video


Return to posts index

James Ewart
Re: A list of FCP X frustrations...
on Sep 5, 2015 at 9:59:08 am
Last Edited By James Ewart on Sep 5, 2015 at 10:01:48 am

When cutting to audio I tried putting audio in the Primary storyline but found it didn't work out for me as well as putting audio underneath the Primary and connecting it to a 6 or 12 frame gap that I insert at the head of the Timeline in the Primary and then cut from there enjoying all the benefits of the magnetic timeline.

I struggled massively with FCPX until I started using Gaps.


Return to posts index

Scott Parker
Re: A list of FCP X frustrations...
on Sep 15, 2015 at 11:57:25 pm

I certainly have a few frustrations with FCP 10.2, but maybe I've overlooked a few things? Removing effects is a hassle (well it is for me because I assumed there was a remove all FX command). I find a "select all forward/backward" command really useful but maybe that will come later. Unlike many users expressing frustration with this application, I like the magnetic timeline... most of the time.

That being said I am also starting a feature length documentary on AVID MC8.4 and am looking forward to leaving FCPX behind until Apple incorporates some of the feature requests we have been sending them.


Return to posts index

James Ewart
Re: A list of FCP X frustrations...
on Sep 16, 2015 at 11:28:48 am

[Scott Parker] " I find a "select all forward/backward" command really useful but maybe that will come later."

That was the tool I thought I missed most but once I got my head round the fact that with a Magnetic timeline you really don't need it. Or I don't any more. I do use gaps a lot when i nee to push stuff one way or another down the timeline.


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]