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Frustration with Split Edits in Secondary Storylines

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Brett Sherman
Frustration with Split Edits in Secondary Storylines
on Jan 24, 2014 at 3:00:24 pm

Why can't audio lead the video in a secondary storyline! I find this enormously frustrating because when you need a few more frames of audio there is no quick way to do it. The only way I've found it to insert a gap into the primary storyline then drag that gap into your secondary storyline which then messes up your timing so you then have to reposition the secondary storyline to get it to where you had it originally.

Hopefully I'm overlooking an easier method. And don't tell me to Detach Audio, that's hacky.


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Bret Williams
Re: Frustration with Split Edits in Secondary Storylines
on Jan 24, 2014 at 3:16:58 pm

Expand the two clips. Then, as of 10.1, place the cursor over the audio cut point and drag backward or use trim keys. Similar to any NLE.

Pre 10.1 you had to expand, then place the playhead at the cut point and press shift+\. That would select the audio edit only. Then you could use the trim keys, but you couldn't drag.

You can also drag either clip individually to create a gap or overlap of course.



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Bret Williams
Re: Frustration with Split Edits in Secondary Storylines
on Jan 24, 2014 at 3:28:14 pm

Wait, I know what you're getting at and I completely agree. You're talking not about a split edit within the secondary, but the first clip of the secondary storyline. A secondary must start with video, whether it be a gap or actual video. Very annoying. You can however have a standalone connected clip that starts with just audio, but the moment you turn it into a secondary, the audio lead in gets truncated. That seems like a bug or at the very minimum an oversight of developers that have no knowledge of the industry they're creating applications for.

A simiar issue: I've also complained that if a connected clip has an audio lead in or extension (j or l cut) it is only visible when expanded. Visually, the extension of the audio gets truncated when the clip isn't expanded. So there's audio, but no visual representation of it's existence. Seems again like idiot developers.


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Bret Williams
Re: Frustration with Split Edits in Secondary Storylines
on Jan 24, 2014 at 3:51:42 pm

So maybe we're both missing something, but I can't find a way to append something at the beginning of a secondary without rippling the secondary. Nor can I find a way to roll edit a secondary to the left. Seems like an pretty flawed concept. I can certainly roll edit a secondary to the right.


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Michael Garber
Re: Frustration with Split Edits in Secondary Storylines
on Jan 24, 2014 at 4:09:40 pm

The only way I can find that works to append to the beginning of a secondary is to move the playhead to the first frame of it and hit shift-q. then hold down g and drag the secondary to the end of the first clip.

Michael Garber
5th Wall - a post production company
Blog: GARBERSHOP
My Moviola Webinar on Cutting News in FCP X


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Frustration with Split Edits in Secondary Storylines
on Jan 24, 2014 at 4:23:25 pm

Are you talking about this?:




Or this?:



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Brett Sherman
Re: Frustration with Split Edits in Secondary Storylines
on Jan 24, 2014 at 8:30:03 pm

Second one.



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Frustration with Split Edits in Secondary Storylines
on Jan 24, 2014 at 8:41:28 pm

[Brett Sherman] "Second one."

Just roll out the clip to where you want the audio to start, Expand, use position tool on the video only.


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Charlie Austin
Re: Frustration with Split Edits in Secondary Storylines
on Jan 24, 2014 at 8:36:12 pm

[Bret Williams] "So maybe we're both missing something, but I can't find a way to append something at the beginning of a secondary without rippling the secondary. Nor can I find a way to roll edit a secondary to the left. Seems like an pretty flawed concept. I can certainly roll edit a secondary to the right."

It may be a bug... i just make my secondaries extend further left than I need them to. Then everything works as you'd expect.

If the secondary starts with video (no gap on the left)... to do what the OP wants, I'd drag the head of the collapsed clip left to get the amount of lead in audio I need, expand it, and trim the video back to where I want it.

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Brett Sherman
Re: Frustration with Split Edits in Secondary Storylines
on Jan 25, 2014 at 3:14:38 pm

Thanks guys. I guess I didn't think of that. It's just weird that FCP X understands it needs a gap clip when trimming video backward, but doesn't understand it when trimming an audio clip forward or moving a J clip into the secondary. Seems like an oversight and an easy fix.



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Frustration with Split Edits in Secondary Storylines
on Jan 25, 2014 at 6:53:09 pm

Be sure to submit feedback to Apple. I know it seems futile, but they do listen.

http://www.apple.com/feedback/finalcutpro.html


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Bret Williams
Re: Frustration with Split Edits in Secondary Storylines
on Jan 26, 2014 at 3:31:23 am

If I try to roll a secondary backward, it keeps the start position and ripples everything to the right.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Frustration with Split Edits in Secondary Storylines
on Jan 26, 2014 at 3:41:39 am

[Bret Williams] "If I try to roll a secondary backward, it keeps the start position and ripples everything to the right.
"


What do you want to do?

If you want to keep everything else in place, use the position tool.


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Bret Williams
Re: Frustration with Split Edits in Secondary Storylines
on Jan 26, 2014 at 3:22:51 pm

Actually, I was just trying to get the secondary to roll backward. Instead of just leaving the tool in A, I was switching to T out of habit I guess. Oddly enough the two function differently. If you're trying to roll it back with the T tool, it leaves the start in place and ripples downstream. If you use the A or P tool, it rolls it backward. Which is the exact OPPOSITE of how things operate when editing between two clips. Use the A tool and try to roll just one side of an edit and it ripples. Normal. So, to roll the edit, you have to use the T tool. My mind just assumed if I wanted to roll back the first clip in a secondary, I'd have to use the T tool, just like within the secondary. But, nope. For some reason the A or P (p tool makes sense) tool will magically roll it back. Using the T tool suddenly ripples. I guess now I know. It's like a secret society or something.


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Brett Sherman
Re: Frustration with Split Edits in Secondary Storylines
on Jan 27, 2014 at 3:31:39 pm

Yeah. I sort of understand Apple's logic here, but I think it's the wrong logic. The way Apple thinks of it is - P tool is the tool that creates gap clips, therefore it should be the P tool that does this operation.

To me the more logical way to think about it is - The P tool moves clips forward or backward in the timeline. The T tool trims clips in their existing location. Therefore it should be the T tool that does this operation. But what do I know.



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Frustration with Split Edits in Secondary Storylines
on Jan 27, 2014 at 5:34:56 pm

[Brett Sherman] "To me the more logical way to think about it is - The P tool moves clips forward or backward in the timeline."

That's one use. The other use is to keep a clip in time (position) in the storyline, trim the heads/tails without a ripple.


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Bret Williams
Re: Frustration with Split Edits in Secondary Storylines
on Jan 28, 2014 at 11:26:17 pm

But, in this case the A tool works without rippling too. It's the roll tool (T) that does the ripple. That is very inconsistent.


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