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ADVICE needed - FCPX projects --> FCP7 workflow (not X27)

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shawn convey
ADVICE needed - FCPX projects --> FCP7 workflow (not X27)
on Jan 15, 2014 at 6:54:17 pm

Hey all,

I need some sage advice.

I have been working on a huge project for over a year now on location in Bosnia.
All footage has been shot on the 5D mrk3 and c300 cameras.

My FCPX Workflow

While on location I was importing / organizing / syncing / labeling and adding subtitles into FCPX.
- I have each camera in it's own event and project.
- I have the video synced (using Plural Eyes) with the Zoom audio files.
- I have added subtitles from my translator using Annotation edit.
- I have then used the TimeCode generator to give the entire sync'ed, subbed "master timeline" a consistent reference throughout and so I always know exactly where that clip lives in the "master timeline" once I start editing.
- Lastly I have added the "file name" using the Text "right" generator in FCPX so I always know what day it is.

I would then create a separate compound clip for all the video from that day, the external audio, and the subtitles. (so that is 3 Compound clips. (see pics below)

Add the TimeCode and right text generators...
Select all and make it all a C. Clip... I did this so nothing would shift.. the Subs would be in sync and the timecode would always be the same no matter how and where the footage was used....

My Question / Challenge

OK so now my producers have found an editor and this editor needs to edit this project in FCP 7.
I am in Chicago they are in Berlin... I will join them in Berlin but want to do as much prep work in the 1.5 months leading up to my travel date here in Chicago.

They have all the footage and FCPX projects and events and now need to get them into FCP 7
the app X to 7 does not import FCPX generators and has some quirks importing text (I am not sure how it will handle my subs as we are just beginning the import / converting process)

What I don't want is to loose all the good work that I have done on my end to be organized and I absolutely NEED the subtitles included with the sync'd footage.

Does anyone have any advice and / or know where I can turn to figure out what to do in this situation?

the viewer with subs, timecode, and file stamp


the timeline broken apart




the timeline as compound clips



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: ADVICE needed - FCPX projects --> FCP7 workflow (not X27)
on Jan 15, 2014 at 7:56:34 pm
Last Edited By Jeremy Garchow on Jan 15, 2014 at 7:58:24 pm

Xto7 is the most complete translation method that is available today.

Unfortunately, due to the inherent problem of speaking two different languages, transferring your entire X to FCP7 project will not be perfect, and with the new FCP 10.1 Library structure, you still have to translate Projects separately from events.

My advice would be to translate what you can, and start over in 7.


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shawn convey
Re: ADVICE needed - FCPX projects --> FCP7 workflow (not X27)
on Jan 15, 2014 at 8:06:15 pm

My obvious hesitation for doing that is that there are over 45 days of footage totaling 200+ hrs.

I am going to try to talk the Berlin editor / producer into using FCPX

However I suspect they will resist.

We need to edit 2 different versions...
first a 52 min TV for broadcast version, and then a 120 Min theatrical version for Fests.

Can you think of any reason why FCPX would not be a proper tool to edit either of these versions other than the fact that the producers / editor have maybe not done so before... (meaning they are hesitant as it is new and scary)

Are there Roundtriping issues I should be aware of or programs that definitely don't play well with FCPX?
I have been made aware of X2Pro for a solid "pro tools" roundtrip solution, and I have been assured that FCPX and Di Vincci Resolve play well.
Is there anything that you can think of that would be a deal breaker for them?

As it is now the FCPX structure (Event, Projects with Subs, TC and file stamp all synced with external audio via Plural Eyes) seems like an ideal starting point from a organizational standpoint...

thanks!


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: ADVICE needed - FCPX projects --> FCP7 workflow (not X27)
on Jan 15, 2014 at 8:19:13 pm

[shawn convey] "Can you think of any reason why FCPX would not be a proper tool to edit either of these versions other than the fact that the producers / editor have maybe not done so before... (meaning they are hesitant as it is new and scary)"

I think that is a big reason. Being unfamiliar with a program is a valid reason to not want to use it.

[shawn convey] "Are there Roundtriping issues I should be aware of or programs that definitely don't play well with FCPX?"

It depends on what you mean by roundtripping. There's only a few programs that round trip, and not all of them are perfect. It is dependent on what you need to do, and what programs you need to trip to/from.

[shawn convey] "Is there anything that you can think of that would be a deal breaker for them?"

It is hard to answer that question as I don't know the ins and outs of what needs to be done on this particular project.

FCPX does work with Resolve, from what I have used of it. X2Pro also works very well, but it's not a "round trip". Xto7 and 7toX also work very well.

Can it be done? Yes it can be done, but it will be much easier for you, and much harder for them. I don't know how well that dynamic will work for the project overall.

Jeremy


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Bill Davis
Re: ADVICE needed - FCPX projects --> FCP7 workflow (not X27)
on Jan 15, 2014 at 9:07:05 pm

Here's what I would do.

Take your cut with you on a laptop, with the database accessible and all the goodness that X added to your workflow. Make sure you have both original and proxy files on your system - and use the proxy files to do your work.

Set up shop with them with the announced presumption that you will be using your system for communicating the edit decisions you've made to them using the X storyline as "merely a demonstration tool."

Give them the entire pool of original content and an XML print out of all the EDL decisions. And then have them pick a small section of the project with a significant amount of edit work you've done as a "demo" section to establish an exchange workflow. Load that stuff up in FCP-Legacy for a "demonstration cut"

Then tell them that since the software works so differently, you'll be there to help them manually translate one into the other.

Let them begin to build the project section in FCP-Legacy using your edit as a "live template" to have the producer and new editor build whatever changes they want to the section as they assemble it.

As they do them, make the same changes to the work in your X storyline.

Then, every time they stop to render out and display a piece of work - you simply disable the TC and logging overlays and show or export clear video for them without hassles and without rendering.

Do this again and again.

My suspicion is that after a few days of trying to work "double workflow", they'll get tired of working with legacy after they realize that X simply edits faster and better and you're getting more and better work accomplished using the new system - and if they're smart, they'll slowly move away from the legacy editors versions to yours. At which point they'll understand why Apple saw such a compelling reason to change the system - and start to get over their fear of change.

; )

FWIW.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Jeff Kirkland
Re: ADVICE needed - FCPX projects --> FCP7 workflow (not X27)
on Jan 15, 2014 at 8:08:31 pm

Xto7 is the state of the art way to exchange projects between X & 7. Keep in mind you;re taking a step backwards in moving to FCP7 so it's never going to be perfect.

In terms of the titles, you might take a look at Title Exchange Pro to transfer them... free to try so worth a shot. http://www.spherico.de/filmtools/TitleExchange/

Jeff Kirkland | Video Producer | Southern Creative Media | Melbourne Australia
http://www.southerncreative.com.au | G+: http://gplus.to/jeffkirkland | Twitter: @jeffkirkland


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Andy Mees
Re: ADVICE needed - FCPX projects --> FCP7 workflow (not X27)
on Jan 16, 2014 at 1:47:35 am

You might consider exporting each of your compound clips as standalone intermediates, two versions for each (clean and texted).


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shawn convey
Re: ADVICE needed - FCPX projects --> FCP7 workflow (not X27)
on Jan 16, 2014 at 1:52:58 am

@Bill Davis
I like your approach in theory.. However there is 12TB of footage and on top of that I am not confident that my FCPX chops would win anyone over to convert ;) But I do agree with what you are saying.

@ Jeff Kirkland
thanks for the tip I will have them check that out for sure

@ Andy Mees
I am curious as to what you mean exactly... Seems like you are onto something but I am not "savvy" enough to follow you. would you mind explaining a bit more...
I would really love to figure out a solution that does not kill either them or myself ;)

thanks to all!


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Bill Davis
Re: ADVICE needed - FCPX projects --> FCP7 workflow (not X27)
on Jan 16, 2014 at 4:33:08 am
Last Edited By Bill Davis on Jan 16, 2014 at 4:34:04 am

[shawn convey] "@Bill Davis
I like your approach in theory.. However there is 12TB of footage and on top of that I am not confident that my FCPX chops would win anyone over to convert ;) But I do agree with what you are saying."


Well, that's about $450 to create a functioning clone of everything at any US Costco right now.(4Tb drives for $149.ea.) Just sayin' ; )

Note: You don't need thunderbolt to work ProRes or Proxy at all!

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: ADVICE needed - FCPX projects --> FCP7 workflow (not X27)
on Jan 16, 2014 at 5:14:53 am

[shawn convey] "@ Andy Mees
I am curious as to what you mean exactly... Seems like you are onto something but I am not "savvy" enough to follow you. would you mind explaining a bit more...
I would really love to figure out a solution that does not kill either them or myself ;)"


I think what Andy is saying is to export your compound clips as new master clips.

Export one set with text, and one without. Use the texted during the edit/translation, relink to textless for the finish.


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Andy Mees
Re: ADVICE needed - FCPX projects --> FCP7 workflow (not X27)
on Jan 16, 2014 at 5:18:57 am
Last Edited By Andy Mees on Jan 16, 2014 at 5:20:06 am

Hey Shawn

Yep, Jeremy has it.

You've already done all the hard work, creating annotated compound clips that represent your "reels", you now just need to pass that in a form thats easy for your editor to work with regardless of the NLE in which they choose to work, correct?

So if you export 2 self-contained movies for each of your Compound Clips, one with the annotations (i.e. the subs, clip name t/c) visible, and one with those annotations muted (you can just use the timeline index to select and mute all text generators) - then you will end up with 2 regular QT clips for each reel, with those clips being effectively identical except for the text information.

Your can work with these new master clips instead of the originals, using the texted version for the offline and switching to the textless version for the online. If you so chose you could encode the texted version using CPU friendly ProRes Proxy as the codec, whilst encoding the textless master version using a higher end codec such as ProRes HQ.

Does that make more sense?

Cheers
Andy


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shawn convey
Re: ADVICE needed - FCPX projects --> FCP7 workflow (not X27)
on Jan 16, 2014 at 7:00:04 pm

Yep that is making sense..
still not a perfect solution but this whole process is very imperfect..
I was hoping I could keep the clips all "loose" but that seems pretty impossible..


-- Actually --

Is there a way to render the generators and subs as an "independent" layer with an alpha transparent background
so basically if they were to import just the synced footage which x27 could handle
and then we placed this subtitle / timecode / file stamp layer above that for reference...

would something like that be possible?

thanks!


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: ADVICE needed - FCPX projects --> FCP7 workflow (not X27)
on Jan 16, 2014 at 9:02:51 pm

[shawn convey] "would something like that be possible?"

It is with Roles.

You can export the video and audio together, and then do a separate export pass of the titles Role.

The titles only Role must be set to ProRes 4444.

You can also export them all separately in one pass (Video, Titles, and Audio) but that might cause more trouble than you need.

Jeremy


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