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In/Out Points in the Timeline

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Adam White
In/Out Points in the Timeline
on Dec 19, 2013 at 12:17:45 pm

In and Out Points in the timeline are driving me crazy in FCPX.

Something happens with the in/out points in the timeline which is hurrying me along into insanity. It is very possible that I am doing something wrong as I haven't been using X for long (a couple months) and am still trying to get to grips with it.

If I just set one point in the timeline (either in or out, for 3-point editing) it will AUTOMATICALLY set the other point based on a clip in the primary storyline. So far I have often been inserting music in the primary (and then connecting clips to it) - this causes havoc with timeline in/out points. For example, let's say I have cut up my music - the cut point for music is at 1:30. If I set an out point in the timeline at 2:00 with the intention of adding a short clip there, I will automatically have an In point added at 1:30 where the music cut-point is. This seems to be totally insane and I can only assume I am doing something wrong - please tell me that this is not unavoidable.


Thanks in advance!


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Andy Neil
Re: In/Out Points in the Timeline
on Dec 19, 2013 at 3:56:44 pm

Three point edits work slightly different in FCPX than in other NLEs. This is because X will automatically select the OUT if you select an IN, or it'll select an IN if you select an OUT. This is normal, don't worry.

Here's how you perform a 3 point edit (where the third point is in the timeline):

Place an IN and OUT in your event browser.

Do NOT place any range markers in the timeline.

Place the playhead (or skimmer) at the point where you want the third point of your 3 point edit to be.

Hit whichever edit function you want (connect, insert, overwrite) to lay the clip in from the IN point.

Hold SHIFT down and hit whichever edit function you want to back time the clip from the OUT.


Here's how you perform a 3 point edit (where the third point is in the event browser):

Place and IN and OUT in your timeline.

Mark and IN or and OUT in the event browser. Or don't even bother with any markers at all.

Hit your edit function of choice to lay the clip in from the IN point.

Hold SHIFT down and hit whichever edit function you want to back time the clip from the OUT.


Hope this helps.

Andy

http://www.timesavertutorials.com


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Craig Alan
Re: In/Out Points in the Timeline
on Dec 20, 2013 at 1:41:18 am

[Andy Neil] "Here's how you perform a 3 point edit (where the third point is in the event browser):

Place and IN and OUT in your timeline."


But that take us back to the original post: how do you control I and O if FC sets the second point automatically?

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Andy Neil
Re: In/Out Points in the Timeline
on Dec 20, 2013 at 2:28:58 am

[Craig Alan] "But that take us back to the original post: how do you control I and O if FC sets the second point automatically?"

You have to read my whole post. There are TWO types of 3-point edits. One where 2 of the 3 points are set in the timeline, and one where 2 of the 3 points are set in the browser.

If you've set INs and OUTs in the browser, then you don't need to set ANY INs or OUTs in the timeline to perform the 3-point edit. Just perform the edit with your edit of choice (say Q), or hold SHIFT and it'll backtime from the playhead.

Andy

http://www.timesavertutorials.com


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Craig Alan
Re: In/Out Points in the Timeline
on Dec 20, 2013 at 7:52:32 am

No I got that. But it's a common need to select a specific section of the timeline for many actions. And I O for me was always the fastest, least tedious, most accurate way of doing just that. But unless I'm misunderstanding the original question the problem is not a big deal. By default FC extends the selection to the next cut point. But if you move the playhead to a different point, before or after the cut point you can hit I or O and it will modify the selection not begin a new selection. There are times the automatic range selection saves time but I think its an unnecessary feature. you can always use the up and down arrows to move the playhead to the next or previous cut point and then hit I or O.

But if you set an I and O in the browser and then an I in the timeline then yes its disconcerting to have the O jump to the end of the selected clip. As you point out you can just use the playhead as the third point. I think an In Point is more secure and less prone to error. But not a big deal.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Andy Neil
Re: In/Out Points in the Timeline
on Dec 20, 2013 at 5:14:24 pm

[Craig Alan] "There are times the automatic range selection saves time but I think its an unnecessary feature. you can always use the up and down arrows to move the playhead to the next or previous cut point and then hit I or O."

In your opinion, sure. I happen to think it's a good feature. Instead of hitting IN than pressing down arrow, then left arrow (to back up one frame to the end of a clip), and then hitting O, I can do it with one key. In the situations where I need to place an OUT somewhere else, well, I'd need to move to that point anyway. It's a win-win in my book. It's not disconcerting at all to see it mark a clip to the end when I place a single mark. Like the magnetic timeline, it's just something you get used to and then adjust your workflow to take advantage.

Andy

http://www.timesavertutorials.com


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Craig Alan
Re: In/Out Points in the Timeline
on Dec 21, 2013 at 2:38:23 am

[Andy Neil] "Instead of hitting IN than pressing down arrow, then left arrow (to back up one frame to the end of a clip), and then hitting O, I can do it with one key."

You could just select the clip then scroll to where you want and set your I point.

But yeah you have good point. Though it might be nice to be able to turn off the behavior with a modifier. Though I'm sure I'd forget what it is. And since it doesn't prevent you from hitting out before the end of the clip or after its kinda a cool feature. It's just that auto selection takes a little getting used to. It's just for me when I'm doing something manually I like to keep it that way.

The one thing I can't so far get used to is clips jumping from being attached under the primary to being attached over the timeline.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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David Eaks
Re: In/Out Points in the Timeline
on Dec 21, 2013 at 4:01:44 am

[Craig Alan] "The one thing I can't so far get used to is clips jumping from being attached under the primary to being attached over the timeline."

In what case does that happen?


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Craig Alan
Re: In/Out Points in the Timeline
on Dec 21, 2013 at 6:30:56 am

I just tried and I can't reproduce it but I know that during an edit I've had a connected clip jump above the primary. And I've read other people asking what caused the behavior. But it's kinda a worthless post if I can't describe when it happens. I thought it was a common experience. In any case I'm going to update to mavericks, download the new version, and spend some more time with it. I do find I get projects done faster with X and I'm enjoying it.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Craig Alan
Re: In/Out Points in the Timeline
on Dec 21, 2013 at 5:55:08 pm

Absolutely. Yeah I have no trouble with the concept of connected clips and vertical alignment. My memory of this is probably wrong and was just the normal repositioning of connected clips as you add them and move them around. When things get moved automatically, and you are not expecting the behavior, it jars you. Once you start adjusting to the behavior, it's, at first, magical and then timesaving and expected. Maybe I thought a connected clip was the primary as I was experimenting with secondary storylines. Track based editing doesn't reposition things till you do. I like tracks for that reason but mostly I do work faster now. It was a stupid post on my part, the product of exhaustion. My only comment from that day that I'd want to stand by is I do not think calling a timeline a project was a good decision given the universal usage of the word project. Anyway sorry for the stupid post. Andy's original post was clear and helpful and it should have been left at that.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Andy Neil
Re: In/Out Points in the Timeline
on Dec 21, 2013 at 6:35:34 pm

[Bill Fiebig] "You can actually pull it underneath the primary, however, I am not sure why you would want to do that as the only clip that you will see is what ever is the top clip."

There's actually quite a good use for video clips connected below the primary. If your primary storyline clips have green screen or otherwise masked or keyed footage, it's often easier to place the background footage below the primary as a connected clip rather than move the green screen footage out of the primary.

Andy

http://www.timesavertutorials.com


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Craig Alan
Re: In/Out Points in the Timeline
on Dec 21, 2013 at 7:06:10 pm

I think I remember now. I was using a sound track as my primary and I had connected clips below the primary and when adding or moving another connected clip another jumped on top. I decided I didn't like using a sound track as the primary so have not done it since. Still can't reproduce it but pretty sure it happened. When trying to reproduce it I don't find any of the behavior strange or unexpected so I guess I'm just getting used to the workflow. Also you can set opacity in the inspector for any clip so there are other reasons to have layers of clips. I also sometimes leave clips on its own "track" when trying out others or repositioning a sequence. I know there is auditioning and so forth but its an old habit from my track based days.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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brianlaz
Re: In/Out Points in the Timeline
on Aug 5, 2017 at 9:59:37 pm

I know it's an old post. But my two cents anyway.
For me the problem is, if I'm doing a three point edit into the timeline, I have to leave my playhead where i want it, rather than the ability to set an in point, and perhaps watch it again, or do something else...anything I want really, and know that my in point is where I left it. I even often unintentionally click somewhere and lose my carefully placed "in point."
IMHO, this is not helpful, and with almost no upside.
There was actually a very quick way to achieve the so-called benefit of the auto in or outpoint in FCP 7, much faster than up or down arrow to beginning/end of clip, and that was to hit x, which puts in and out and beginning and ends of clip, then hit in or out, and it has the exact same effect, in the time it took to hit two keys, one after the other, which is super fast.



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Craig Alan
Re: In/Out Points in the Timeline
on Aug 6, 2017 at 3:09:48 am

Not a comment on which is faster or more ergonomic; but whenever i want to select a beat on the timeline that I will need to use later for whatever reason, I just hit M (marker). If I want to set multiple In and Out points on the time line with a music track on the primary I just set a bunch of markers. If after, I connect the clips at the marker locations, it is not difficult to modify the I/Os on the timeline because there are always times when for whatever reasons it doesn't play well at those points when playing it back at the given frame rate. What works when you have stopped time making one decision at a time doesn't always play well. But maybe I'm just old school. I see a lot of footage where i feel the cuts come too fast. Looked like a cool shot; how about letting me watch it ? Was that the good guy"s friend or the bad guy's muscle that just fell off the roof? If I'm setting the visual to a sound track, I can just listen to the song with one finger on the M key and click M at every beat or any beat that sounds like a good time to cut. And if listening to a timeline that has dialog, it's also easy to set markers where some music should fade in or go silent or a cut-in or cutaway might help or hide a jump cut. In any case, a simple solution to the lost where I set the I or O points and then needed to do another command.

Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic HPX250P, FCP X 10.3, teach video production in L.A.


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