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Canon 5d Mark III clips wont play in multiclip

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David Powell
Canon 5d Mark III clips wont play in multiclip
on Dec 15, 2013 at 10:51:19 pm

Very strange. Although I've cut multicam projects with footage from this camera, it was always pretranscoded to Prores LT via Mpeg streamclip. I'm on 10.08 btw. I've tried two different events using the plural eyes workflow for two different shoots and both do the same thing. The image is just stuck on a freeze frame both in the angle editor and storyline with no display of the audio in the angle editor.

The clips play fine in the PE multicam 2up and the finder and sync in the right places in FCPX. I transcoded one of the shoots to ProresLT and everything works fine, but this is a real wrench in my workflow as I like to work proxy and switch back to originals.

Anyone ever seen this before? Btw, the clips play fine if I import them into an event by themselves.


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Bret Williams
Re: Canon 5d Mark III clips wont play in multiclip
on Dec 16, 2013 at 12:44:15 am

Have you created proxies? Does it play back from those? What are your computer specs? H264 is a bigger demand on the system than ProResLT for sure.


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David Powell
Re: Canon 5d Mark III clips wont play in multiclip
on Dec 16, 2013 at 12:57:08 am

I got the biggest and baddest imac from late 2011 i7 3.4 with a t-bolt Raid. Its def not an h.264 issue. I transcoded to proxie and get the same results. Its not playing slow. Its literally frozen. Every clip. Won't even play one at a time in the angle editor. Every other angle plays at speed with no hesitation. But if I import the same clip to the event, it works just fine. All the cameras in the other angles are h.264 but from 7d's. Its just from this camera and only in a multi clip.

First time I've had this issue, but its the first time I've done multicam with this specific camera without having first transcoded to prores outside (which I shouldn't have to).


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Canon 5d Mark III clips wont play in multiclip
on Dec 16, 2013 at 1:29:36 am

This sounds like a frame rate issue to me.

What frame rate is the footage?


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David Powell
Re: Canon 5d Mark III clips wont play in multiclip
on Dec 16, 2013 at 2:38:38 am

23.98 Shouldn't the prores not work as well if that were the issue? I transcode same rate.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Canon 5d Mark III clips wont play in multiclip
on Dec 16, 2013 at 2:41:09 am

Didn't you say they were pre transcoded ProRes lt with streamclip?

And that the proxies exhibited the same behavior?


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David Powell
Re: Canon 5d Mark III clips wont play in multiclip
on Dec 16, 2013 at 2:59:02 am

Well after the originals and proxies wouldn't work in X, I transcoded the same clips in mpg streamclip and they play fine.

And again original clips will play fine in X but not in the angle editor or in a multi clip. I Weiner if there is some kind of xml problem going on from PE.


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Dave Jenkins
Re: Canon 5d Mark III clips wont play in multiclip
on Dec 16, 2013 at 5:11:01 am

So are you using plural eyes instead of FCPX built in sync?

Dajen Productions, Santa Barbara, CA
MacPro 3.2GHz Quad Core - AJA Kona LHe+
FCS 3 OS X 10.7.4
FCP X, Logic Pro, Squeeze, Filemaker 10.8.3


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Canon 5d Mark III clips wont play in multiclip
on Dec 16, 2013 at 5:12:10 am
Last Edited By Jeremy Garchow on Dec 16, 2013 at 5:26:37 am

Sorry, I misunderstood.

If the clips play fine without the plural eyes XML, then, yes it may be something in the XML.


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Bill Davis
Re: Canon 5d Mark III clips wont play in multiclip
on Dec 16, 2013 at 7:17:24 pm

David,

Try a super simplified test.

Take the shortest original clip from the 5d you have.

Import it into a new Event. Let X do the ProRes and Proxy transcodes internally.

Drop it on a blank X Storyline.

If it plays back fine, then the problem is something you're doing with the transcoder settings prior to brining it into X.

If it does NOT work, then the problem is at the camera settings level.

Because thousands of us successfully edit 5d footage every minute all around the globe.

You clearly have enough computer resources. My suspicion is that messing around with pre-transcoding or audio syncing outside X (neither necessary) something is getting screwed up.

Good luck.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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David Powell
Re: Canon 5d Mark III clips wont play in multiclip
on Dec 16, 2013 at 10:35:44 pm

The 5D clips DO work on their own in the event/storyline. They will not work in the angle editor coming from PE. I've only transcoded to Prores LT beforehand because it wouldn't work with the native clips. You're half right. Transcoding should not be necessary outside of X of syncing most definitely is. X does not have the ability to sync long (1-2 hour) multi clips. It works swell for short segment or say 3 long clips that are close in length. 3 cameras of start stop dslr, multiple audio sources faggetaboudit. Actually as I've complained many times, it doesn't handle long multicam stuff well at all. I just make it work. In fact any long multi clip wont even play on the event side, but thats another issue only Apple can fix.


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Dave Jenkins
Re: Canon 5d Mark III clips wont play in multiclip
on Dec 16, 2013 at 11:50:00 pm

I have Multicams ranging from 22 minutes to 1 hour & 49 minutes. 5 cameras with lots of stops and starts. Cameras are 7D's, JVC HD camera, Sony Handycam, mixed frame rates at 29.97 & 23.98 and it plays. No Proxy or transcoded media. I do have the playback quality set to better performance. The only thing I don't have that you're talking about is footage from the 5D or other audio sources.

[David Powell] "X does not have the ability to sync long (1-2 hour) multi clips. It works swell for short segment or say 3 long clips that are close in length. 3 cameras of start stop dslr, multiple audio sources faggetaboudit. Actually as I've complained many times, it doesn't handle long multicam stuff well at all. I just make it work. In fact any long multi clip wont even play on the event side, but thats another issue only Apple can fix."

Dajen Productions, Santa Barbara, CA
MacPro 3.2GHz Quad Core - AJA Kona LHe+
FCS 3 OS X 10.7.4
FCP X, Logic Pro, Squeeze, Filemaker 10.8.3


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David Powell
Re: Canon 5d Mark III clips wont play in multiclip
on Dec 16, 2013 at 11:59:43 pm

I've done a ton of these projects but something about the originals from 5d Mark III (don't have this problem with the previous Canon) won't translate from Plural Eyes to X. Other than that I have no playback issues no matter how many cams (most of my projects are 6 cam).


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Dave Jenkins
Re: Canon 5d Mark III clips wont play in multiclip
on Dec 17, 2013 at 12:35:05 am

Ah, okay I misunderstood this statement.

X does not have the ability to sync long (1-2 hour) multi clips. It works swell for short segment or say 3 long clips that are close in length. 3 cameras of start stop dslr, multiple audio sources faggetaboudit. Actually as I've complained many times, it doesn't handle long multicam stuff well at all. I just make it work. In fact any long multi clip wont even play on the event side, but thats another issue only Apple can fix.

Dajen Productions, Santa Barbara, CA
MacPro 3.2GHz Quad Core - AJA Kona LHe+
FCS 3 OS X 10.7.4
FCP X, Logic Pro, Squeeze, Filemaker 10.8.3


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David Powell
Re: Canon 5d Mark III clips wont play in multiclip
on Dec 17, 2013 at 12:55:08 am

Out of curiosity, are you able to get your 1hr 49min multiclips to play on the event side?


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Bill Davis
Re: Canon 5d Mark III clips wont play in multi clip (not apparently a widespread problem)
on Dec 17, 2013 at 1:47:49 am
Last Edited By Bill Davis on Dec 17, 2013 at 1:53:04 am

David,

I kinda think it's important when you're looking for help on hardware/software issues to come to the point where you start every interaction with an honest attempt to determine whether this is a problem a LOT of people are having - or whether it's a problem YOU are having.

Right now, the way you've brought this here -and the responses you've gotten from others - kinda point in the direction that it's a problem YOU are having, but not one that a whole lot of others are having.

This is quite instructive, since it helps you understand that instead of needing to look at Apple for the solution (a thing that is vastly out of your control) - you can simply focus on your own practices and hopefully get a much faster solution.

A lot of us have been doing complex multi-cam work in FCP-X and there's very little anecdotal evidence that it has problems with lots of angles or long form content. So as I noted, I'd try to cut out the steps in your workflow where problems can creep in. For me that would be to eliminate the use of 3rd party software, and do research on the settings that other 5dMkIII users employ to achieve success.

Essentially, look back at your thread title. It's a public claim that's is belied by plenty of evidence. And therefore, it kinda paints you as someone who simply got frustrated and made a presumption.

When you figure out what actually happened, be sure to drop back and let us know so others coming here can benefit from your experiences.

Good luck.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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David Powell
Re: Canon 5d Mark III clips wont play in multi clip (not apparently a widespread problem)
on Dec 17, 2013 at 2:21:57 am
Last Edited By David Powell on Dec 17, 2013 at 2:26:28 am

Bill,

You obviously didn't read the last sentence of my original post. "Has anyone else experienced this?". Obviously I'm posting the problem to find out whether or not is a common problem or my own after not coming up with anything in a search.

Since it is a relatively new software, it is possible that not many people have done a Plural Eyes multicam project with 5d MarkIII footage. So far it doesn't appear that anyone who's responded so far has. But thank you for editing the subject for those who don't want to read the post, which includes yourself.

Final Cut X will NOT sync a 2 hour complex source with varying levels of audio the way plural eyes will (if at all most times) There is no magic to it. It either does it or it doesn't. I know how to use multi cam in X. I've done dozens of mulicam projects (usually 6 cam dlsr's and go pro). If it even came close to the quality of PE then they wouldn't have a market, and I wouldn't have paid the money for it. And X will NOT play long multicam clips on the event side with the transport. Period. Those are the longform problems that I have with it. It still is the best thing for what I'm doing. And I'm using it. I've used X for over a year exclusively with 100% multicam projects on 4 different systems all using the latest iMacs. I know what I'm talking about.

Of course that was just a sidebar. Wasn't even part of my original problem. I know how to work around the shortcomings. If you haven't used canon 5d Mark III footage from Plural Eyes, then you can't really help here, because that is my problem. Syncing in X is not a solution. It doesn't work for me and it wouldn't work for you given the same footage.


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Bill Davis
Re: Canon 5d Mark III clips wont play in multi clip (not apparently a widespread problem)
on Dec 17, 2013 at 2:56:35 am

[David Powell] "You obviously didn't read the last sentence of my original post"

Sigh. Or I did.

Fact. Canon reported sales of around 8 million plus DSLRS in 2012. So i't going to be hard to convince me that the theres a users sample size problem with experiential data for the Mkiii.

That implies that the reason you can't FIND lots of reports of problems is that there aren't many.

Also, consider that since the Mkiii has a 30 minute recording limit (in the traditional 12 min tarrif addressing blocks) that means you're having to already working with stitched files.

Have you considered that perhaps PluraEyes, when it seeks to stitch these together is introducing anomalies? Plural Eyes is a fine product, but it's NOT coming out of a huge company. And that MAY mean it simply can't react to the massive changes that happen when a company like Canon (with truly global sales) has to figure out how to make stuff that's been crippled by tarrif requirements work for what it wasn't originally designed to do?

What you want is do appears to be able to take H264 compressed chunks which are bandwidth limited to 100Mbps - dump then out to another program - have IT stitch them together with audio files (which may or may not have properly configured sample rate or encoding specs) and then you want FCP-X to "see" those resulting files (whatever they actually are) as something that X can work with flawlessly..

All that instead of just letting X work with the original files to do the stitching and audio conforming.

And you're having trouble.

Why am I not surprised?

Good luck with whatever you end up doing. I stand by the thought that there are of plenty of 5dMkiii shooters out there who are doing precisely what you want to do - and if you can't scare up a tsunami of similar problems via a google search - I'm just suggesting that maybe that's because they 're NOT having the same trouble as you. It's not like the MkIII has just been out weeks It's been out many, many months. As has PluralEyes.

But do what you like.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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David Powell
Re: Canon 5d Mark III clips wont play in multi clip (not apparently a widespread problem)
on Dec 17, 2013 at 3:08:11 am

If Plural Eyes is the problem, then thats what I came to find out! Obviously! Hence why I'm trying to find out if any of these millions of other users might have ran into the problem. Thus far, noone has replied with "I use PE with Canon 5d MarkIII all the time and it works swimmingly."

I didn't come here to prove a point. I came to find a solution to a problem. Apparently there isn't anyone thus far who has said one way or another. So the best solution is the one I did which was pretranscode to prores. It's working perfectly and its far faster than trying to sync all this footage in final cut X, but still far slower than my usual workflow which is dump in PE, sync in seconds and send to X, which up to using footage from this particular camera has worked flawlessly (for over a year now).

The goal is to find out where the problem lies not make a statement about Canon footage, Apple or PE.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Canon 5d Mark III clips wont play in multiclip
on Dec 17, 2013 at 1:48:35 am

Doesn't the 5D mkIII have all I-frame recording?

Perhaps that's what is triggering the errors.

Has anyone contacted plural eyes about this? I'm sure they would want to know.


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Dave Jenkins
Re: Canon 5d Mark III clips wont play in multiclip
on Dec 17, 2013 at 3:48:33 am
Last Edited By Dave Jenkins on Dec 17, 2013 at 3:50:09 am

I will check tomorrow.

Out of curiosity, are you able to get your 1hr 49min multiclips to play on the event side?

Dajen Productions, Santa Barbara, CA
MacPro 3.2GHz Quad Core - AJA Kona LHe+
FCS 3 OS X 10.7.4
FCP X, Logic Pro, Squeeze, Filemaker 10.8.3


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James Ewart
Re: Canon 5d Mark III clips wont play in multiclip
on Dec 17, 2013 at 8:44:50 am

Ahhh answers my question I did not know this.

Which means for Live Events/concerts/conferences/theatre are you telling me FCPX just doesn't not have the nuts to handle these long takes?

If so I am glad I found out now rather than the week after next because I was rather banking on it.


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David Powell
Re: Canon 5d Mark III clips wont play in multiclip
on Dec 17, 2013 at 9:07:50 am

It absolutely does NOT have the nuts to handle it. Not even close. It will process for about a half hour and then give you an "inadequate audio". PE1 and 2 were hassles. PE3 is a dream. It will literally sync up a whole night in under 20 seconds. You just have to go in and rename your angles in the angle editor, because that info doesn't carry over. Takes 2 minutes tops.

X's syncing capabilites are good for a music video or perhaps a concert if you split up the songs (read a whole lot more organizational work). PE3 will pay for itself in time lost trying to sync in final cut the first day. And will pay for the hairloss that you can't get back in an hour.

Even though PE will give you a nice long clean multi clip, don't think you can make selects from event browser like you would with every other NLE. X doesn't currently have the balls for this either. Even if you sub clip it into a shorter keyword, no dice. Youll have to lay the whole thing out on a storyline and cut it down. This becomes somewhat of a hassle because you're used to matchframing and using cutaways from earlier in the clip. Not gonna happen. Having to make so many selects from the timeline starts making you really wish at this point that there were colored and spanned markers. Ok I'll stop there. Lets hope tomorrow brings bigger nuts and old features back.


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James Ewart
Re: Canon 5d Mark III clips wont play in multiclip
on Dec 17, 2013 at 9:09:42 am
Last Edited By James Ewart on Dec 17, 2013 at 9:13:04 am

Well that really is an eye opener to me I must say.

I have not used multi cam much and certainly not road tested it in bad weather but that's sounds an absolute nightmare.

I can see it's much easier to break things down song by song once it's all synched rather than after.

For my purposes with Theatre work it's out of the question because each act is at least 45 minutes.

Tomorrow form 10.1?

Are you sure?


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Dave Jenkins
Re: Multicam works for me!!!!
on Dec 17, 2013 at 4:49:44 pm

David, you can say it doesn't work for you but that's not true for everyone! You are misleading James that Multicam doesn't work. I have a 1 hour & 49 minute multicam clip that plays in the event browser and in a timeline. I used FCP X to sync the angles.

I have Multicams ranging from 22 minutes to 1 hour & 49 minutes. 5 cameras with lots of stops and starts. Cameras are 7D's, JVC HD camera, Sony Handycam, mixed frame rates at 29.97 & 23.98 and it plays. No Proxy or transcoded media. I do have the playback quality set to better performance. The only thing I don't have that you're talking about is footage from the 5D or other audio sources.

Dajen Productions, Santa Barbara, CA
MacPro 3.2GHz Quad Core - AJA Kona LHe+
FCS 3 OS X 10.7.4
FCP X, Logic Pro, Squeeze, Filemaker 10.8.3


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David Powell
Re: Multicam works for me!!!!
on Dec 17, 2013 at 5:10:50 pm

If yours pays back in the event browser, then I'll take that back. Never has for me, with long clips. I never said multicam didn't work. I'm using it everyday! FCPX cannot sync as well as plural eyes! That's a fact jack! But if you don't have PE, you can make it work. It takes way more time. If you do this type of cut often PE is a no brainer.

I'll delete my last post though regarding the event level playback. Don't want to mislead. Maybe my computer isn't up to the task.


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Dave Jenkins
Re: Multicam works for me!!!!
on Dec 17, 2013 at 5:34:56 pm

[David Powell] "Maybe my computer isn't up to the task.
"

Your Computer:
I got the biggest and baddest imac from late 2011 i7 3.4 with a t-bolt Raid

I don't think it's your computer, I'm cutting on a 2012 Mac 3.2 quad core with 32 gigs of ram and 4 internal drives at raid 0, so your system should be crushing mine.
I know you don't want to hear this but personally I think it's plural eyes causing you the problems.

Dajen Productions, Santa Barbara, CA
MacPro 3.2GHz Quad Core - AJA Kona LHe+
FCS 3 OS X 10.7.4
FCP X, Logic Pro, Squeeze, Filemaker 10.8.3


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Multicam works for me!!!!
on Dec 17, 2013 at 5:44:12 pm

http://www.redgiant.com/company/contact-us/


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David Powell
Re: Multicam works for me!!!!
on Dec 17, 2013 at 5:45:33 pm

I'm convinced PE is the problem with the original issue. As to the event side playback, I never connected the dots to PE for that one. I wonder if there might be something to that. I'm going to test and see. That would be a most welcome revelation!


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James Ewart
Re: Multicam works for me!!!!
on Dec 17, 2013 at 5:55:43 pm

Jut reading the thread objectively it looks like the odd man out is PE.

Bit if you have had problems syncing long clips with Apple's sync function and others haven't where does that leave us?


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James Ewart
Re: Canon 5d Mark III clips wont play in multiclip
on Dec 17, 2013 at 8:39:15 am
Last Edited By James Ewart on Dec 17, 2013 at 8:39:45 am

Out of interest why not synch within FCPX. I have found it to be simpler and less hassle than the old Pluralise workflow days with 7.


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Bret Williams
Re: Canon 5d Mark III clips wont play in multiclip
on Dec 16, 2013 at 2:27:08 am

That iMac shouldn't even flinch at the 5D footage. It's essentially the same as the 7D. I did quite a lot of multicam 5D edits on that machine. Any chance it's linked to a USB drive or something?


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