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Bret Williams
Sony Raw 4k to FCP X?
on Dec 10, 2013 at 4:53:42 am

I never did figure out a way to convert Sony 4k Raw to a format X could use. I can convert it to 1080p ProRes, but I need the resolution for cutting in closer to simulate 2 cameras. Any ideas?


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Michael Garber
Re: Sony Raw 4k to FCP X?
on Dec 10, 2013 at 8:25:21 am

What about Adobe Media Encoder?

Michael Garber
5th Wall - a post production company
Blog: GARBERSHOP
My Moviola Webinar on Cutting News in FCP X


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Michael Sanders
Re: Sony Raw 4k to FCP X?
on Dec 10, 2013 at 9:13:08 am

I'm pretty sure you just download the plugin from Sony or use their Content Browser s/w..

I know HD XAVC works perfectly in X but haven't tried 4K yet. There were reports about green flashes on the import but that was supposedly fixed in 10.0.9

Michael Sanders
London Based DP/Editor


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Francois Jean
Re: Sony Raw 4k to FCP X?
on Dec 10, 2013 at 10:31:43 am

Hi Bret,
I do not understand why it's not feasible to make a 4k size ProRes file instead of a 1080p and do as intended …

all the best
ZAP


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Michael Sanders
Re: Sony Raw 4k to FCP X?
on Dec 10, 2013 at 12:57:40 pm
Last Edited By Michael Sanders on Dec 10, 2013 at 12:59:07 pm

Ahhh RAW.. sorry, missed the RAW bit - 4K XAVC is through the plugin.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Sony Raw 4k to FCP X?
on Dec 10, 2013 at 3:40:09 pm

That's correct for XAVC and other broadcast formats.

XAVC is not the same as Sony RAW

You will have to transcode Sony RAW using the viewer I linked to earlier, preferably ProRes 4x4.


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Bret Williams
Re: Sony Raw 4k to FCP X?
on Dec 10, 2013 at 5:03:06 pm

The viewer only exports 1080p.


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Bret Williams
Re: Sony Raw 4k to FCP X?
on Dec 10, 2013 at 5:09:31 pm

I take that back, it'll do 4k in DPX or OpenEXR. But I don't think that helps me.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Sony Raw 4k to FCP X?
on Dec 10, 2013 at 5:28:57 pm

It would be best to use a traditional "offline/online" and conform your edit (you have the Proxies already) in DaVinci or Pr/Ae, depending on how you'd like to handle it.

You cut just as you'd want the pictures framed, then use the 4k RAW during the conform to gain back the full pixel resolution. If you can, I'd try and key from the RAW, so going from FCPX to Pr/Ae might be the best bet.

If not, you can use DaVinci to bake ProRes 4x4 movies and key from those.

Jeremy


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Bret Williams
Re: Sony Raw 4k to FCP X?
on Dec 10, 2013 at 5:54:04 pm

I guess if I need the extra definition that's what I'll do. I've played a little with using Media Encoder to export as 4k ProRes. Problem is the color isn't right. Too saturated. But the resolution is there.

My workflow has been to edit the cuts of the AVCHD in X. Then export a ProRes file of the edit sans key as ProRes, and a file with key as a ProRes 4444. That gives me the ability in AE to switch between the already keyed file from FCP X, or key with KeyLight in AE. Once again, Keylight is the clear winner. X gives more of a clean cut matte, but at the expense of fine edges, whereas Keylight pulls out the details of hair and motion, but it's hard to get the matte completely white. Leaves minor bits of transparency at times that can generally be dealt with with a grunge matte if necessary.

And now that I have a 4k ProRes file, I can "online" in AE by replacing the shots above. But since I exported them from X as a cut, there's no real data to automatically sync them up. Just scale the 4k to 50% and match them back by hand. But it's just 4-5 shots per video (4). Not too bad.

So perhaps resolve will have the correct color control. I'll give it a shot. Oh, wait, I have resolve lite. No 4k output there! Not going to pay a grand just to export some shots. I knew there was a reason I wasn't using resolve.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Sony Raw 4k to FCP X?
on Dec 10, 2013 at 6:03:29 pm

I would cut using FCPX.

At any point, send an XML or EDL to Pr and reconnect to the Raw. Send to Ae for key.

Export.

Using Davinci, you'd use Davinci to render pre-framed 1080 movies, not the 4k movie.

For Keylight, I sometimes find leaving the drop down in "intermediate result" works better. I don't know why.

Also, use the "Replace Method > Source" but that really depends on the type of footage.


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Bret Williams
Re: Sony Raw 4k to FCP X?
on Dec 10, 2013 at 6:12:23 pm

Ah, that DaVinci method wouldn't work then. I need 4k files IN AE to fly around with the camera. And as of yet, there is no way to get those. Well, proper ones at least. The XML Xto7 to get my FCP cut to AE is a possibility, but only Premiere can see the RAW. So even if I relink to raw in premiere, AE can not read the Sony RAW.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Sony Raw 4k to FCP X?
on Dec 10, 2013 at 6:26:34 pm
Last Edited By Jeremy Garchow on Dec 10, 2013 at 6:31:10 pm

[Bret Williams] "So even if I relink to raw in premiere, AE can not read the Sony RAW"

Oops. That I didn't know. Apologies.


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Bret Williams
Re: Sony Raw 4k to FCP X?
on Dec 12, 2013 at 7:01:05 pm

Ok, apparently Resolve lite 10.x isn't limited to 1080p anymore? I'm converting the files to ProRes LT at 4K UHD. Did I miss some news?

But does seem like the colors are a bit too saturated. Definitely the opposite of flat.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Sony Raw 4k to FCP X?
on Dec 12, 2013 at 7:43:12 pm

Yes, the for pay version basically allows control panels now, and a few other odds and ends, like multiple GPUs/RedRockets.

How did you shoot it? Did you end up using SLog2 or no?


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Bret Williams
Re: Sony Raw 4k to FCP X?
on Dec 12, 2013 at 7:54:41 pm

I wasn't there, but the metadata says scene linear. It's very odd. It seems in the RAW, the reds have been clipped. (Actually the green and blue too, but to less effect. ) Looks the same way in Sony Raw Viewer and Resolve. Here's a scope screen shot from X comparing the two after the green has been keyed out. One is the 4k 422 LT from resolve on the right, and the other is the AVCHD from the FS700 on left. It's a person with orange shirt. The orange is kinda posterized and you can see from the scopes that they're almost exactly the same, except the red has been clipped. The AVCHD has a higher pedestal for some reason. Otherwise the blues and greens are the same.

On both I just threw the default keyed effect to lose the green. No adjustments. The 4k ProRes LT keys pretty awesome. If I can figure out the color issues, I'll use it to get some closeups on the final product. And better/easier keys!



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Sony Raw 4k to FCP X?
on Dec 12, 2013 at 8:05:03 pm

I can't see much from here, but I'd use the one on the right.

Does Resolve give you any Raw metadata controls to set gamma.etc?

If not, you can set in Raw Viewer and then take to Resolve.

I would also test a ProRes 444 render to see if you get even better results. LT is good, but pretty crunched from RAW.

Jeremy


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Bret Williams
Re: Sony Raw 4k to FCP X?
on Dec 12, 2013 at 8:12:37 pm

In the Sony app, I've played a bit, but wasn't able to bring back that clipped data from any setting I could find.

The project is a total of 12 shots for the green screen, so I'll definitely find some setting that works on the RAW.

I don't really know what I'm doing in Resolve other than some basic corrections and export. I just used it for this because it would read the raw and export to ProRes at 4k. I could use 4444 but I really just need the resolution. But perhaps I should. I could definitely get an xml from X and match up the time codes from the AVCHD to the RAW media. It'd be nice to just relink. It'd be nice to know resolve better too! :) Guess this is how ya learn.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Sony Raw 4k to FCP X?
on Dec 12, 2013 at 8:21:02 pm

[Bret Williams] "In the Sony app, I've played a bit, but wasn't able to bring back that clipped data from any setting I could find."

There are a multitude of channel selections you can make to try and recover the clipped highlights, as well as adjusting the Color & Tone Curve (or gamma), as well as saturation, lum, ISO… a bunch. It very well could be that the clipping exists only in the metadata.

They are in the "input settings" in the Raw Viewer.

Resolve is used to make dailies a lot. I would suggest looking up a tutorial on how to make dailies with Resolve. This will give you at least a working knowledge of how to get back and forth.

If I find some time, I'll give it a shot with Resolve 10, it shouldn't be really hard to relink to the RAW, and should be done almost seamlessly.


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Bret Williams
Re: Sony Raw 4k to FCP X?
on Dec 12, 2013 at 9:04:48 pm

Ok, in the Sony Raw app, if I switch the color pulldown (in the linear gain settings) to 1.LC_709 I get wonderful results. Brings that chroma down where it looks perfect and peaks around 95%. How do I bake that into my RAW clips, so they open in DaVinci with that setting, so I can export to ProRes?


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Sony Raw 4k to FCP X?
on Dec 12, 2013 at 9:44:27 pm

Great.

In Davinci, once you get to the "color" section, click on the button that look like a camera for "camera Raw" (bottom left).

In there, you can apply nearly the same settings. Decode Using > Clip

Jeremy


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Sony Raw 4k to FCP X?
on Dec 12, 2013 at 10:01:30 pm

BTW-

I'm telling you how to do this in DaVinci as you can setup everything in there and render.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Sony Raw 4k to FCP X?
on Dec 12, 2013 at 10:13:01 pm

I have never worked with the AVCHD proxies and then the Sony RAW.

What you usually do to relink in DaVinci is to add the RAW files to the media pool, import the XML, and then DaVinci will reconnect to the RAW files automatically.

Can you try this?

Just put one clip on a Project, export the XML, add the corresponding one RAW clip to the Media Pool, and then import the XML.

At least, that's how it works in v9.

Jeremy


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Bret Williams
Re: Sony Raw 4k to FCP X?
on Dec 13, 2013 at 8:25:30 pm

I was able to export an xml from X and bring it into resolve. It didn't relink to anything automagically. When shooting with the FS700 and the extra raw recorder, the files aren't exactly the same. The HD AVCHD files from the card often have more frames at the head of the clip. So the TC, while perfectly in sync with the raw recorder TC, starts earlier. Each shot is slightly longer. And the file names aren't even remotely the same.

But what I was able to do, since I was only dealing with a handful of shots, was bring in the XML linked up to the HD versions, and "force conform to selection in bin." So I had both HD and 4k in the media pool. I'd match frame a shot and get the TC, then find the matching 4k shot, then do a force conform. It would swap the shot and match up the TC. Then I changed the size of the sequence to 4k and exported for FCP X.

It worked! But I had to grade the shots in resolve ever so slightly (adjusting the raw settings didn't give me any option even close to as good as the one in Sony Raw viewer) to get close to normal non glowing orange and they didn't want to play as nice with the key after that. Something is definitely odd about the chroma/luma clipping in the raw. When it's all said and done, and finely tweaked grade in resolve on the raw shots doesn't look nearly as good (color wise) as the AVCHD after I make a simple black level adjustment. In the RAW I have to bring the chroma down a bit to match, and of course it brings down the green too, which screws with the key.

We should've just shot with the native 4k XAVC right in camera. But it sounded good to have both HD and 4k RAW. I think I can make do if I have to pull out a 4k shot for the final product. But have learned a lot for next time that's for sure.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Sony Raw 4k to FCP X?
on Dec 13, 2013 at 8:36:02 pm

[Bret Williams] "And the file names aren't even remotely the same."

Right, but my guess is that there's be metadata that would help this process, and it should be able to relink through reel/tc alone.

If you're willing can you do me a large favor?

In the RAW Viewer, you can make a new RAW clip (it's under the Export options as "Trim").

Is it possible for you to export a second or so of the RAW?

Or, if you have a very short RAW clip that you are willing to upload, I'd be happy to take a look for you.

The settings in RAW Viewer and Resolve should be fairly similar. The RAW color data is just metadata so you should be able to match the RAW Viewer to Resolve and vice versa.

If you can't for whatever reason, that's cool. You can email me offline if you'd like as well.

editstation (at) gmail


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Bret Williams
Re: Sony Raw 4k to FCP X?
on Dec 13, 2013 at 8:41:20 pm

That'd be great. Will do. Probably later tonight. The settings are similar, but the Sony Raw viewer has this LC709 color space setting, which is a little different that the settings that seem to be similar in resolve.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Sony Raw 4k to FCP X?
on Dec 13, 2013 at 8:45:21 pm

That seems to be a "Low Contrast" LUT, hence the LC. Actually, I think those are Sony LUT available for download, and I am sure you can add that LUT to Resolve and get the same results.

Let me try and find them.

Send an email when you have a chance and that way, we can at least look at the same footage.

Jeremy


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Sony Raw 4k to FCP X?
on Dec 13, 2013 at 8:53:37 pm

Here they are. You want the "Resolve Cube" link.

http://community.sony.com/t5/F5-F55/NEW-3D-LUT-s-for-F55-and-F65/m-p/135617...

Jeremy


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John Davidson
Re: Sony Raw 4k to FCP X?
on Oct 29, 2014 at 4:35:11 pm

Hey guys, is the F5 raw process any better one year later?

John Davidson | President / Creative Director | Magic Feather Inc.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Sony Raw 4k to FCP X?
on Oct 29, 2014 at 4:59:49 pm

[John Davidson] "Hey guys, is the F5 raw process any better one year later?"

Better "ha-ha" or better "queer"?

Sony Raw is still not supported in FCPX. You have to either transcode first, or use Resolve as the linking engine.


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chris king
Re: Sony Raw 4k to FCP X?
on Jan 22, 2015 at 8:21:23 am

There are Raw plug-in for Adobe(PLAD-RW1), Raw plug-in for Avid(PLAV-RW1), but I didn’t find a Raw plug-in for FCP X. As some guys mentioned you may tried the RAW Viewer. By the way, if you got some 4K XAVC video to FCP X, it could be easier. Tried either XAVC/XDCAM Plug-in for FCP X or use an application to format 4K XAVC to ProRes for editing in FCP X with ease.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Sony Raw 4k to FCP X?
on Jan 22, 2015 at 7:15:37 pm

[chris king] "Tried either XAVC/XDCAM Plug-in for FCP X or use an application to format 4K XAVC to ProRes for editing in FCP X with ease."

All MXF media, now with FCP 10.1.4, works with FCPX natively. This includes XAVC and Sony's SSTP codec.

What is not supported, is RAW in FCPX, as there is no codec. Also, there's no RAW controls to change metadata. This would have to built by Sony or someone, similar to what Red does with their Raw support.

But, almost all of Sony's other MXF format are now supported without any extra plugins in FCPX 10.1.4.


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