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Breaking apart compound clip messes up sync

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Anette Olsen
Breaking apart compound clip messes up sync
on Dec 2, 2013 at 1:21:39 pm

Hi,

I'm working on a 30-min. doc and had a sound editor do the final soundwork and send me an aiff-file that I synced up with the storyline.

All went well. Then I made one single compound clip of the whole storyline and clicked the original sound off in audio.

I discovered a few places in the storyline, I needed to adjust (without altering the length of the film), so I broke apart the compound clip in order to do that.
Disaster! Not only had fcp moved the secondary storyline several frames out of place, but the film started before 00:00:00!

I tried putting it in place by selecting everything and moving it to 00:00:00, but all except the main storyline moved!

Has anyone experienced problems with reopening large compoundclip?
Should I instead make several smaller compound clips instead of one big?

I'd appreciate your help, but maybe it's a bug??


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Bill Davis
Re: Breaking apart compound clip messes up sync
on Dec 2, 2013 at 6:05:22 pm

Compound Clips strike again!

I honestly think this is one of the single most mis-understood aspects of how X works.

For the record, a compound clip is NOT a simple thing. It has a very specific function. It's NOT just a "nest" ala Legacy. It's also not just a "virtual folder." Compounding things has consequences on a lot of levels.

If you think you can just trivially compound things because it's visually convenient or easy - you're messing up and you deserve the mess you'll be making of your Events when you go back to them and find a bunch of auto-created compound clips that you didn't know you were creating.

A compound clip creates a relationship between multiple items in a storyline AND reflects that relationship back into the Event Browser as a usable item. So it's a LOOP relative to the standard metadata flow of FCP-X which is always: Import > Event Browser > Storyline > Project Library > Share.

My suggestion is to always use them as little as possible until you firmly understand how they operate.

The key question in creating a compound is this: "Do I need or want a copy of this arrangement as a "thing" in my Event Browser. If the answer is no, then see if you can do what you need with another arrangement in X.

I'm NOT saying don't use them.

Just don't use them like they're something they are not.

And yes, since adding transitions to anything in X can change the length, timing or position of elements as the software has to accommodate changing head and tail and transition lengths, that can screw up your timing. It's a necessary side effect of magnetism - which is a monster boon in most cases, but again, can cause problems until you understand how it effects element timing.

Think of compounds like Tribbles in Start Trek. A few are cute and a joy to have around. When you start getting a bunch of them littering the landscape - trouble.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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James Ewart
Re: Breaking apart compound clip messes up sync
on Dec 2, 2013 at 6:30:11 pm

Thanks for that Bill,

Do you have a view of the occasionally suggested (and really convenient) use of compound clips as a means of making backup versions?

Create Compound clip and then Break Apart clip item and carry on editing. It is a lot quicker than duplicating projects

I am wary because of the problems I read about compound clips sapping performance (especially as I only have 8GB RAM).

Your thoughts?

cheers

James

http://www.jamesewart.co.uk


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Bill Davis
Re: Breaking apart compound clip messes up sync
on Dec 2, 2013 at 9:06:18 pm

[James Ewart] "Do you have a view of the occasionally suggested (and really convenient) use of compound clips as a means of making backup versions?"

I think it's fundamentally wrong. (opinion, not fact, but with reasoning behind it)

X has both an internal and an external backup system built into it. The first, via the the Project Library - the second via the Duplicate command in the File Menu.

Using just the internal one, with it's finder like folder structure, you can make as many "versions" of a thing as you like and even keep just one "current" copy visible with as many "hidden" "in progress" edits as you like.

IT's like having a warehouse for finished projects and partial assemblies, but people insist on keeping their workrooms cluttered with partially finished assemblies - even tho the ones in their warehouse are every bit as instantly accessible as ones cluttering up the workshop.

A neat and organized Event Library is a thing of GREAT beauty and extremely powerful efficiency. Cluttering it up with alternate "progress compounds" is beyond foolish in my view.

Also widely mis-understood is the Share process. Depending on HOW you share videos, you can quite easily make multiple resolution copies that live inside the X "Shared Items" folder - which in turn, X can access for various functions like populating the clip representations in your Project Library. This can mean that you can, for example, dump full resolution media sources for a project to free up drive space, but NOT have your skim-able clips go offline in the Project Library. This is extremely useful, for example, for laptop work on the road.

I've been saying for years that to truly "get" how X works, you've GOT to get your head out of your timelines and learn more about the entire system that is X.

Timeline editing is about half of what FCP-X is excellent at. The other half is almost more important - as we continue into a more and more complex video future.

FWIW.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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James Ewart
Re: Breaking apart compound clip messes up sync
on Dec 3, 2013 at 8:48:33 am
Last Edited By James Ewart on Dec 3, 2013 at 8:53:34 am

Thanks for this.

Sometimes I wish I did not have to go back into the project library to duplicate a project. It interrupts my train of thought having to come out of the project in order to duplicate it. Somebody is going to tell me I'm missing something here no doubt.



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Charlie Austin
Re: Breaking apart compound clip messes up sync
on Dec 3, 2013 at 9:00:13 am

[James Ewart] "Sometimes I wish I did not have to go back into the project library to duplicate a project"

Well, there's a lot of (possibly incorrect) speculation floating around which says that this won't be an issue for too much longer. I hope we find out soon! I'm tired of all the speculating. :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Charlie Austin
Re: Breaking apart compound clip messes up sync
on Dec 2, 2013 at 10:19:09 pm

[James Ewart] "Your thoughts?"

I'll just chime in if I may be so bold...

Don't ever use CC's as proxies for actual projects.

:-)

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Bill Davis
Re: Breaking apart compound clip messes up sync
on Dec 3, 2013 at 1:28:49 am

Jeez, Charlie.

Can't you find a way to write overly verbose run-on drivel like the rest of us?

Sheesh.

: )

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Charlie Austin
Re: Breaking apart compound clip messes up sync
on Dec 3, 2013 at 1:43:35 am

[Bill Davis] "Jeez, Charlie.

Can't you find a way to write overly verbose run-on drivel like the rest of us?

Sheesh.

: )"


no.



:-P

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Breaking apart compound clip messes up sync
on Dec 3, 2013 at 8:22:55 am

Another problem with compound clips is that they break the Project database.

You can make a compound clip, break it apart, delete and change clips, then media manage that Project and even though there's no trace of the original files from the original compound, the original clips still show up in the media manage.

There's something weird happening that is left over from when compounds completely changed in functionality.

So, as to why the audio was knocked out if sync, I don't know, but if you assign Roles, you can export only the final mix and leave everything else behind.

If you need to move the primary back to zero, select all
clips in primary, select the position tool, and drag back to zero.


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Anette Olsen
Re: Breaking apart compound clip messes up sync
on Dec 3, 2013 at 8:45:55 am

@Bill, if this answer was for me, then:

Believe me, I never expected compound clips to be simple! But at least they should be simple to use, otherwise, what’s the idea?
We all know that editing is time consuming work, so any way of doing things smarter is welcome. I spent 1 ½ year on this doc,so I don’t really think I deserve ’the mess’ I’m making, like you say.

What I have read in fora etc. Is that people DO use compound clips exactly to simplify things (which is not the same as to say CC are simple!), but it would be nice to have a thorough explanation of how many clips max. you can compound and undo without messing up.


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Jacob Brown
Re: Breaking apart compound clip messes up sync
on Dec 3, 2013 at 8:45:15 pm

what frame rates are you working in?

at a similar stage in post as you, i once accidentally created a 24fps timeline when it should have been 23.78. didn't notice the discrepancy until i broke apart a CC, at which point FCPX suddenly failed to maintain sync and shifted a bunch of stuff slightly.


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