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Weirdness on Export

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Sam Comer
Weirdness on Export
on Oct 10, 2013 at 7:31:27 pm

I made a simple background in Motion to replace a green screen in some corporate talking head pieces. Inside of FCPX and Motion, it looks great. When I export the video from FCPX, whether as ProRess 422 or Uncompressed 10-bit, I get these concentric circles:



I thought maybe my original file was too low res or something, so I went back and rebuilt it from scratch in Motion. The color solids are not resized, only reshaped with masks. The new, rebuilt version did the same thing on export.

Backgrounds from within FCPX's Generators export with no problem.

Any ideas?

FCPX 10.0.8, Motion 5.07

Exported ProRes 4:2:2 and Uncompressed 10-bit Quicktime. Then converted to H.264 via Adobe Media Encoder. All files come out looking this way.


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James Cude
Re: Weirdness on Export
on Oct 10, 2013 at 10:58:49 pm

That looks like fairly typical H.264 banding- and why involve Adobe Media Encoder when FCPX/Compressor can go right to H.264?


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Ronny Courtens
Re: Weirdness on Export
on Oct 11, 2013 at 7:54:58 am

Compression artifact would also be my first thought. Do you see the banding in the ProRes 422 or the Uncompressed video?

- Ronny


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Weirdness on Export
on Oct 11, 2013 at 9:59:12 am

Make sure you are rendering 'best' quality from motion.

I'd also try and use x264 for your encode.

Handbrake uses it. You can purchase an add on for Episode.

Or you can set it up with Compressor: http://library.creativecow.net/lawrence_david/Video-Purifier_and_x264/1

No matter what, h264 is a lossy 8bit codec. It will band.

You can try to dither the background a bit to help reduce banding by adding a tiny bit of noise with the add noise filter.


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Sam Comer
Re: Weirdness on Export
on Oct 11, 2013 at 4:24:18 pm

My original post may not have been clear - I exported it as both Pro Res HQ and Uncompressed QT, and they both look like that even before the transcode, so i's not the H.264.

I don't use Compressor because we don't have it in the studio. They bought FCPX for editing and After Effects for effects. (I had to push them to get Motion, mainly so I can make custom titles and themes for FCPX).

Media Encoder came with After Effects, so I use that to convert my Master Files to other formats. Regardless, it looks like that even in ProRes HQ or Uncompressed QT.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Weirdness on Export
on Oct 11, 2013 at 4:41:19 pm

[Sam Comer] "Media Encoder came with After Effects, so I use that to convert my Master Files to other formats. Regardless, it looks like that even in ProRes HQ or Uncompressed QT."

Are you are viewing it on an 8bit display?

If you could view it in a 10bit pipeline on a 10bit monitor, there would be no banding.

Regardless, you can add minimal noise to the bg layer it will reduce the banding.

It's an old trick that still works.

The frame grab you supplied seems highly compressed. Any chance you can upload one frame of full res ProResHQ?

Jeremy


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Sam Comer
Re: Weirdness on Export
on Oct 11, 2013 at 6:16:06 pm

This is my point/problem. That IS a screen grab from the Uncompressed QT.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Weirdness on Export
on Oct 11, 2013 at 6:39:04 pm

But it's a screengrab (a jpeg or png, or something).

I need a one frame .mov

Make sense?


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Sam Comer
Re: Weirdness on Export
on Oct 11, 2013 at 7:40:02 pm

I have a frame from the Motion file saved as "Save Current Frame." It is a 16MB tiff file (too big to upload here). It looks like the screen grab. (Note that screen grabs of background that export as normal look normal, too).

I exported a 1 frame only .mov as Uncompressed 10-bit. It looks the same. I uploaded it to the COW just a big ago, but I'm afraid it's going to compress it.


http://reels.creativecow.net/film/one-frame-only


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Weirdness on Export
on Oct 11, 2013 at 8:24:00 pm

You would need to zip it and upload it as a file.


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Sam Comer
Re: Weirdness on Export
on Oct 11, 2013 at 9:43:53 pm

It won't look any different, I promise.

Maybe this will help.

I'm getting the impression that people don't believe me when I say it's not a compressed H.264, or that I don't know what I'm talking about.

Here is the info window from Quicktime -



Exported directly from Motion as a ProRes HQ.

Project settings:



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Weirdness on Export
on Oct 11, 2013 at 10:27:22 pm

I promise that it might. I was going to check it in a 10bit pipe.

Banding is present on 8bit displays (computer monitors).

If you export a float image out of Ae (make a radial gradient) you will see banding.

Here's a radial gradient out of FCPX. It looks fantastical on my broadcast monitor via AJA. No banding, smooth gradient.

When I open it on my desktop computer monitor, it is all banded up, which I'm sure it looks the same on your monitor, too.

6623_test.mov.zip

Here's the exact same generator, with a bit of noise added. It looks OK on my broadcast monitor, but looks much better on my computer desktop monitor (much less banding).

6624_testnoise.mov.zip

Here is the settings I used. This filter is also available in Motion:



addnoise_settings.png

You can tweak this setting to taste.

Cheers,

Jeremy


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Weirdness on Export
on Oct 11, 2013 at 10:33:30 pm

Even a compressed screen grab shows the difference side by side:



sidebyside.png


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Sam Comer
Re: Weirdness on Export
on Oct 14, 2013 at 9:14:15 pm

Many thanks for the help!


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Dave Gage
Re: Weirdness on Export
on Oct 11, 2013 at 5:05:11 pm

[Sam Comer] "I don't use Compressor because we don't have it in the studio."

I've begun using the free MPEG StreamClip over Compressor for some things these days because the H.264 or x264 output is also viewable on Android devices H.264 from Compressor and FCP X are not at least without some tweaking that I haven't been able to find). I have no idea if your issue is the app method of export, but you could download MPEG StreamClip and give it a try. And yes, if you have the x264 codec loaded, it will see it and will become an option when you choose "Export as MPEG4..."

Dave


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