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In a bit of a muddle with compound clips

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James Ewart
In a bit of a muddle with compound clips
on Sep 28, 2013 at 5:57:58 am

Read somewhere that keeping projects as compound clips was quite a good idea. Quite nice to be able to access a few different versions of a cut within one project for sure.

Two ways of making one it seems.

Copy and past contents of Project timeline into a new compound clip.

BUT

When I highlight the timeline and select New Compound Clip my project effectively disappears and the only way I have of getting it back is by selecting the compound clip and going "Open in Timeline".

I have effectively lost the original project timeline.

And here's the thing...it won't let me delete it.

Been back though the Ripple tutorial and can't seem to fathom what I am doing wrong.

Even if I create a compound clip called "test" to play with it seems like it is there forever...no way of simply deleting it??


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Ronny Courtens
Re: In a bit of a muddle with compound clips
on Sep 28, 2013 at 7:49:12 am

I have effectively lost the original project timeline.

No, you haven't. As you have turned your entire edit into a Compound Clip your original edit has been replaced by one single Compound Clip on your Project Timeline, that's all. If you want to restore your Project Timeline to its original state you can easily do this:

1. Open the Compound Clip in its own timeline and copy the content of the CC timeline
2. Go back to your Project Timeline (you can use the Timeline History arrows to do this), delete the Compound Clip from the Project Timeline and press CMD+V to paste the content of the CC into your Project Timeline.

Now you have restored your original edit in your Project Timeline and you still have the CC in your Event Browser. As the CC has been removed from your Project Timeline you will now be able to delete it from the Event Browser if you wish so.

- Ronny


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Jeff Kirkland
Re: In a bit of a muddle with compound clips
on Sep 28, 2013 at 10:49:13 am

Or slightly simpler is to create the compound clip, then immediately shoes to break the clip apart again. The compound clip you created is still sitting in your event browser and you can get on with your edit.

Jeff Kirkland | Video Producer | Southern Creative Media | Melbourne Australia
http://www.southerncreative.com.au | G+: http://gplus.to/jeffkirkland | Twitter: @jeffkirkland


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Don Smith
Re: In a bit of a muddle with compound clips
on Sep 28, 2013 at 4:09:51 pm

Jeff. Brilliant idea! I mean, I was about to suggest that the OP simply break the CC apart to get his timeline back but your two-step with the CC is genius. I haven't tested it yet but it seems that I could easily save versions of my edit by selecting all, making a CC with a backup name, then breaking the CC on my timeline apart and continue editing knowing that the current version is safely tucked away in my Event Browser. If it works the way I think it does you've just changed my workflow.

Don Smith

NewsVideo.com


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James Ewart
Re: In a bit of a muddle with compound clips
on Sep 28, 2013 at 5:58:18 pm

But any changes you make in the broken apart clip will affect the cc in the browser no?

I think better to create a new CC each time and copy and paste timeline contents into it rather than do what I did which was to select all the items in the timeline and then create a CC.

Subtle difference.

I like the concept of keeping different versions as CCs in Event browser but not sure how many you can do before affecting performance as you read about too many CCs slowing things down rather.


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Bret Williams
Re: In a bit of a muddle with compound clips
on Sep 28, 2013 at 8:38:12 pm

I prefer to avoid all the mess and make a project folder in the library and do your versioning in there, the way it was (somewhat) intended. I treat the folder as I did my "sequences" folder in 7. To me having the events and projects separate is just a common sense improvement. Your media, I'm many cases, chould apply to many different projects. Especially in news, sports, or any other production where you're continually documenting and the footage for a project might come from a multitude of events, or a number of events might spawn multiple related projects. Of course when a project is complete it's nice to be able to create a new event/project just for the final archiving. All I would like to see in that regard is clip trimming/handles when duplicating a project/creating a new event and some sort of backup/attic for the library. Events can always be recreated from the camera originals EXCEPT for the compound clips. And since the compound in the project links directly to the compound in the event, there is a danger if the event corrupts. So I use compounds sparingly. Just for motion graphics and repeated elements.


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Dave Gage
Re: In a bit of a muddle with compound clips
on Sep 29, 2013 at 12:02:12 am

[Bret Williams] "I prefer to avoid all the mess and make a project folder in the library and do your versioning in there"

One "thumbs up" for Bret's method. I'm likely still a bit paranoid from the early days of Compound Clips, so I do as he does. Also, because I just edit for my business, I do a lot of the same types of edits over and over again. So, I created Template Projects that when I begin a new edit I click on the Template, Duplicate it and then begin with the new edit.

The template is primarily a 1-2 minute Gap clip with my standard intro and outros attached, my most commonly used lower 3rds, plus a small video clip with my typical audio and video effects and color adjustments that I just copy and paste onto my new project clip and it gives me a good starting point. I believe I originally started doing this based on the way I use saved templates in Logic.

I get that this method of using templates won't work for most editors with clients and very diverse types of edits to deal with, but this saves me a TON of time.


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Jeff Kirkland
Re: In a bit of a muddle with compound clips
on Sep 28, 2013 at 8:47:33 pm

If you break apart a compound clip, you are essentially doing the equivalent of copying the contents out of the clip and pasting them to the timeline, just in one step.

When you select clips on the timeline and create a compound clip you are basically stuffing all of them into an easily managed container. The compound clip is created in the event library and a copy of it replaces the selected clips on your timeline.

Breaking apart the compound clip is essentially the reverse process. It replaces the selected compound clip with copies of the clips inside it. The clips on your timeline no longer have any relationship with the compound clip they came from (which continues to exist in your event library for later use).

For convenience I usually create an event to keep all these snapshots in so they're separate from the rest of the project's media.

I just find it a great way to have snapshots of the progress of my edit and know that I can either restore the complete compound clip or open it up and copy/paste just part of it back to my project.

Jeff Kirkland | Video Producer | Southern Creative Media | Melbourne Australia
http://www.southerncreative.com.au | G+: http://gplus.to/jeffkirkland | Twitter: @jeffkirkland


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Jeff Kirkland
Re: In a bit of a muddle with compound clips
on Sep 28, 2013 at 9:06:50 pm

And I'll add that I also sometimes do it Brett's way but that only makes a copy of the complete timeline while my method also lets me make versions of just parts of it.

As always, there's always plenty of ways to get where you want to go...

Jeff Kirkland | Video Producer | Southern Creative Media | Melbourne Australia
http://www.southerncreative.com.au | G+: http://gplus.to/jeffkirkland | Twitter: @jeffkirkland


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James Ewart
Re: In a bit of a muddle with compound clips
on Sep 29, 2013 at 6:39:09 am

"Breaking apart the compound clip is essentially the reverse process. It replaces the selected compound clip with copies of the clips inside it. The clips on your timeline no longer have any relationship with the compound clip they came from (which continues to exist in your event library for later use)."

Okay that's interesting. So when you open the CC in the timeline you are NOT affecting the CC in the browser which remains there?

When you select all and create CC that effectively backs it up.

When I select new CC with the event browser highlighted to create a blank one into which to physically paste the contents of the timeline I create a CC I can delete whereas the other method I still m struggling despite trying Ronny's method. I think I have confused it so much.

That said I think I'm with Bret!! Project Folder, duplicate project, nice and simple).

My brain clearly cannot quite cope with the concept.

I don't think I've quite got my head around those little left and right arrows above the timeline index.

Thanks chaps.


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Jeff Kirkland
Re: In a bit of a muddle with compound clips
on Sep 29, 2013 at 8:02:54 am

Hi James,

Not quite. There's a difference between opening a compound clip and breaking it apart. Each compound clip has its own internal timeline. Opening a compound clip takes you to that internal timeline. Any changes you make are global.

When you break a compound clip apart, you are copying the clips from its internal timeline onto your current timeline and so are no longer working with the compound clip at all.

Anyway, the workflow that works for you is the right workflow but compound clips can be incredibly powerful tools once you get to grips with them so they're well worth persevering with.

Cheers
Jeff K

Jeff Kirkland | Video Producer | Southern Creative Media | Melbourne Australia
http://www.southerncreative.com.au | G+: http://gplus.to/jeffkirkland | Twitter: @jeffkirkland


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James Ewart
Re: In a bit of a muddle with compound clips
on Sep 30, 2013 at 2:03:42 am

Okay thanks for that...interesting.

Any performance issues with keeping a bunch of different versions as a compound clip?


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Ronny Courtens
Re: In a bit of a muddle with compound clips
on Sep 30, 2013 at 10:47:36 am

Great thread with some great ideas indeed!

Compound clips used to bug down FCPX in earlier versions. Today I can see no performance issues with using CCs.

- Ronny


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Charlie Austin
Re: In a bit of a muddle with compound clips
on Sep 30, 2013 at 3:11:15 pm

[Ronny Courtens] "Great thread with some great ideas indeed!

Compound clips used to bug down FCPX in earlier versions. Today I can see no performance issues with using CCs."


Agreed. :-) Although personally I wouldn't make any drastic workflow changes 'til I see what Apple has cooked up in the next version of X. I make lots of versions as I go along, and duplicating in the Project Library for versioning is what I do now FWIW...

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Oliver Peters
Re: In a bit of a muddle with compound clips
on Sep 30, 2013 at 5:00:39 pm

[Jeff Kirkland] "When you break a compound clip apart, you are copying the clips from its internal timeline onto your current timeline and so are no longer working with the compound clip at all. "

That's not completely true, because the project still retains links to the compound even though it is broken apart. For example, if you duplicate the "broken apart" project with the option to create a new (consolidated) event, the compound is also copied as part of this process. Even though it is technically no longer a part of the project. This might be a bug, but it shows that some sort of "under the hood" links are retained.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Bill Davis
Re: In a bit of a muddle with compound clips
on Sep 30, 2013 at 6:51:02 pm

[Charlie Austin] " I make lots of versions as I go along, and duplicating in the Project Library for versioning is what I do now FWIW..."

I do this as well.

I keep in my mind always the idea of metadata FLOW in X.

And as I work from my input material downstream toward my Porject Library - I try to "circle back" as little as possible - which is what making a compound clip functionally does. It expresses something from the Storyline back upstream to the Event Browser.

I prefer to do my versioning in the Project Library since they represent alternate possible "finished states" rather than shelved assets that I have elected to preserve for later use (which is how I think of Compound Clips)

FWIW

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Dave Jenkins
Re: In a bit of a muddle with compound clips
on Sep 30, 2013 at 8:41:28 pm

I also do my versioning within projects. It seems that's how the program was designed so I think it's best to use it the way it was designed in my opinion. FWIW

Dajen Productions, Santa Barbara, CA
MacPro 3.2GHz Quad Core - AJA Kona LHe+
FCS 3 OS X 10.7.4
FCP X, Logic Pro, Squeeze, Filemaker 10.8.3


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James Ewart
Re: In a bit of a muddle with compound clips
on Oct 1, 2013 at 4:34:55 am

Perhaps as a way of starting to round off this thread, the CC I was referring to which would not delete was, of course, due to pilot error.

I had inadvertently created a CC from the timeline without selecting anything. The intention had been to create one in the Event Browser.

It seems if you do this FCPX will create a CC with the individual clip closest to the playhead. I did not see that this one shot in the timeline had turned into a CC and successfully deleted the contents resulting in a black hole.

Match Frame (sorry reveal in Event Browser) not possible as nothing to match

Located the clip it came from and (thanks to PIOP) all is well again.

It makes sense to me to keep versions within one project although I am in the habit of duplicating the project every day as a backup.

No Autosave or Autosave Vault still makes me nervous.


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Gretta Wing Miller
Re: In a bit of a muddle with compound clips
on Oct 1, 2013 at 6:06:32 pm

Not quite the end of the discussion, IMHO.
I have been working on a feature doc with FCPX since March 2012, and developed some ignorant workflows. One of which seemed brilliant at the time, was to cut each 'scene' as a CC using the selects, so I did not have to go back hunting thru the Browser.
Now at the end, cleaning up, I was deleting all those CCs in the Browser (they have been very useful), but some of them gave a warning that they were being used. I didn't think so, but left those alone. As a test, I deleted one with that warning and sure enough, that scene, broken apart, reedited often, in a project which has been duplicated/versioned multiple times, showed up with missing media. Not every shot, because I think when I put in a new cutaway or VO shot they were clear of the CC. But most of the scene had missing media. I reproduced the cut easily enough, but I don't know how to finally and fully break the connection between the CC and the project. Certainly Shift-CMD-G doesn't do it.

Downtown Dailies Service
"I may have been born this morning,
but I've been downtown all afternoon."


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James Ewart
Re: In a bit of a muddle with compound clips
on Oct 1, 2013 at 6:15:45 pm

Yup...if you are using the CC in the timeline then DO NOT delete from the Event browser. That was EXACTLY what happened to me.

Wiser minds here will explain why....


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James Ewart
Re: In a bit of a muddle with compound clips
on Mar 30, 2014 at 9:21:58 am

It's back to haunt me. Three little compound clips in the browser which I cannot open or delete. No error message nut there is a little yellow triangle with an exclamation mark next to them.

I have ben through all my sequences/projects and nothing there.

Weird.


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