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FCPX doesnt duplicate project from space disc image

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Lucy Slavinsky
FCPX doesnt duplicate project from space disc image
on Sep 15, 2013 at 9:34:14 pm

Hello everyone,

Can use some help for managing media in FCPX. I already have one sparse disc image with 5 projects on it. I duplicated them using Duplicate Project + Used Clips.
I can see projects and event in both Event browser and Project Library. I want to copy these projects and events to another volume.
And here were the problem begins. FCPX doesnt duplicate either. It just creats empty folders in the event bowser and the project library. I have tried all three duplicate options, FCPX either freezes or creats empty folders
Please help. It is very frustrating because I do understand what I am doing wrong. My RAM memory is 16 gb, I still running on Snow Leopard.

Thank you in advance,


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Bill Davis
Re: FCPX doesnt duplicate project from space disc image
on Sep 15, 2013 at 11:11:32 pm

Hi Lucy.

I'm having trouble with a bit of your description language.

I get that you have a sparse disk image with 5 projects. But those are just digital repositories and X does not read them directly. To read the contents, you need to launch the sparse bundles and let X "see" them as mounted drives. When you do that, X will use metadata to re-populate any projects that are looking for that media.

With the media properly mounted, THEN you can use the X duplicate timelines function to crate copies of timelines and the assets that they are created from.

Remember the fundamental process of FCP-X is reference via metadata. What it wants to see are "asset location data as it is known by X" - which means when you bring an asset into X, it "sees" where it's located and looks for it in the same place next time - and IDs it not by name or finder stuff, but rather by deep digital IDs burried down in X. Disk image and Sparse Bundle workflows succeed because they create a digitl "snapshot" of a production asset with all that ID metadata perfectly intact.

So if you aren't "launching" your sparse bundles. Or if the way you're creating them fails to capture all the digital asset ID info properly - the process won't work in the software.

X has to be able to SEE the assets - or nothing else works.

And don't be fooled if you can see the clips in your storylines and think that THAT alone means they are on-line. X is very sophisticated under the hood and will link to all sorts of proxy files or thumbnail files in order to present the user with it's iconic interface. That does NOT always mean that the assets are present and available for editing.

Workflow is pretty important in using X.

Hope that helps

Ask more if you're still having trouble.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Lucy Slavinsky
Re: FCPX doesnt duplicate project from space disc image
on Sep 15, 2013 at 11:46:52 pm

Hi Bill,

Thank you for your response. Yes, i launched the sparse bundle. I can see the volume in both Event Browser and Project library. I can see clips in the Event browser and I can see the project in the time line. when I click reveal in finder I can see all the clips in the dedicated volume. The property of each project shows all the clips in the same volume as well .
I have no idea how to get around this issue. Obviously something is wrong with metadata, but what exactly and how to fix it.

Best,

Lucy


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Bill Davis
Re: FCPX doesnt duplicate project from space disc image
on Sep 16, 2013 at 1:46:55 am

Okay,
The next easy thing I'd re-check is your targeting.

When you go to duplicate your projects, are you being careful as to where you're pointing the database as to the target drive/project/event structure? Is there a chance that there's already some kind of file already in existence there at the root level with a similar file name?

Doesn't really sound like that since you can "see" the files you want to work with and load them in X. But what about where you're trying to WRITE your duplicates? Does your system seem to be creating the proper Project and Event structure on the target drive to reflect the landing zone for the duplicate projects/event?

Are those "landing zones" clear of confusing assets vis a vis the files you're trying to create?

These are random thoughts about how X can sometimes lose it's way.

Keep describing and we'll keep doing our best to try to help you think it through.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Lucy Slavinsky
Re: FCPX doesnt duplicate project from space disc image
on Sep 16, 2013 at 2:24:28 am

Hi Bill,

I have created a blank sparse disc image exclusevly for duplicating these particular projects. When I click "duplicate project" I choose the same project name and choose the blank sparse disc image from the drop down menu.
FC creats folders, but they are empty. When I open them in finder I can see some files, but there is no project file for sure. I can make screen shots of FC and Finder if it helps.

Thank you very much for trying to help!

Best,

Lucy


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Craig Alan
Re: FCPX doesnt duplicate project from space disc image
on Sep 16, 2013 at 3:59:17 am

I can suggest a few things. It is true that for duplicating and moving projects and events, it is usually recommended to do so within FCP X. Since this did not work - trash the new sparse image and make a new one. A sparsebundle image is a better choice by the way. Try again. Maybe it got a corrupted directory of something. Did you allow enough space in the new sparse image for your media? Make it bigger than you need - it will only use the amount you fill it with. How did you format it?

In the new sparse image, create a project and event folder named exactly like what you have on your other sparse image - the one that is working: Final Cut Projects Final Cut Events.

FCP X will see projects and events in the projects and events folders on the root level of any drive including sparse images. But it only wants one of each folder per drive. So make sure there is only one of each.

If that does not work. I would try copying the entire a sparse image to the new location in the finder. Dismount the older one. Mount the new one and see if it opens in FCP X and all is working. If not check the old one, maybe it got corrupted. If it did, run disk warrior on the sparse image and see if it corrects the problem.

One more thing worth looking at. When you try to duplicate the projects and events, open the background tasks window in FCP X under window and see what is taking place. Maybe you underestimated how long it would take.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Craig Alan
Re: FCPX doesnt duplicate project from space disc image
on Sep 16, 2013 at 4:10:57 am

Oh and make sure that both images with identical project/event names are not open at the same time.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Andreas Kiel
Re: FCPX doesnt duplicate project from space disc image
on Sep 16, 2013 at 11:11:00 am

Lucy,

Bill and Craig described pretty good where you have to look at.
Also as Craig said better use a sparse bundle - they are more safe and only cover the space needed for the real data - at least as long you don't delete any files.

When duplicating projects there is always a buffer needed (means enough free space on the volume). It's needed to verify the copies.
So expand your sparse image before mounting (safest would be double size).
Make as said the destination sparse as same as big.

Then use the FCPX duplicate functions and stay patient.

-Andreas

Spherico
http://www.spherico.com/filmtools

"He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby
become a monster. And if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will
also gaze into thee." - Friedrich Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil


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Lucy Slavinsky
Re: FCPX doesnt duplicate project from space disc image
on Sep 16, 2013 at 1:24:44 pm

Thank you Andreas,

I will follow Bill and Craigs advice and post the result. Have one question though - how would you guess the size of the sparse bundle? I understand I need to double size it, but where in Finder should I look for the number? Sorry for the obvious question.

Best,

Lucy


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Lucy Slavinsky
Re: FCPX doesnt duplicate project from space disc image
on Sep 16, 2013 at 1:19:59 pm

Thank you very much Craig, I ll try and let you know how it worked. What exactly is the advantage of the sparsebundle over the sparse disk image?

Thanks again!

Best,
Lucy


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Andreas Kiel
Re: FCPX doesnt duplicate project from space disc image
on Sep 16, 2013 at 2:14:03 pm

Lucy,

... how would you guess the size of the sparse bundle? I understand I need to double size it, but where in Finder should I look for the number? ...
It's pretty simple:
For a sparse image just click the image file in Finder and press cmd-I or just activate the "Size" column in the Finder window.
For a sparse bundle image mount it and do the same as described above with the finder info.

To answer your other question.
If you create a sparse image with a capacity of 500 GB it will cover 500 GB on your hard drive - regardless whether there are any files on it or not. That's because the sparse image is just one file. You can fill it up to the limit. Once you reached the limit you have to resize it.
Sparse bundles are directories with some subdirectories in it, but they look to the user as same as sparse image when mounted. If you create a blank sparse bundle with a capacity of 500 GB it will cover about 50 MB on your disk that will grow when adding files. Deleting files though won't make the covered disk space less. You have to unmount the sparse bundle image and "clean" the unused space with some terminal commands. The next advantage of sparse bundles is data security. Cause of of their structure in most cases the image can be repaired if only a few internal directories are damaged. This can't be done with sparse images.

To work with disk image you may have a look at my X-File Pro and even if you don't want to use it read the manual/help file.

-Andreas

Spherico
http://www.spherico.com/filmtools
X-Files Pro, tools for working with FCPX
http://www.spherico.com/filmtools/X-Files/index.html

"He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby
become a monster. And if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will
also gaze into thee." - Friedrich Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil


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Lucy Slavinsky
Re: FCPX doesnt duplicate project from space disc image
on Sep 16, 2013 at 3:27:54 pm

Andreas,

Thank you for such a thorough explanation about the difference between disk and bundle.
Regarding the size. I meant how to figure out what bundle image size to choose, when I create it. Especially when I whan to save all the reference media with the project. Should I go to Finder and check the size of the particular project folder and the referenced event folder, add them together? I understand this size should be multiplied by 2 at the end. What is XFile pro doing and where to look for it?

Best,

Lucy


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Andreas Kiel
Re: FCPX doesnt duplicate project from space disc image
on Sep 16, 2013 at 4:37:06 pm

Lucy,

To figure out the size for a new sparse bundle you should have a kind of planning before you start working with a project - if you want to work on this virtual volume.
For example If you know you will have around 100 GB of (encoded) source material and each clip will have effects etc. you know you will have maybe 3 times the amount of the 100 GB for render files and or optimized media etc. Then depending on the complexity of your FCPX project file add a GB ore more.

It also depends on how much space is available on the volumes where you save the sparse bundles.
Take the example I made in my last post. You can create 2 500 GB sparse bundles on 1 TB drive which at the start won't need a lot of disk space. When you fill both of the sparse bundles up to their limit you probably will get a crash and at least some serious warnings and oddities before the crash happens.

The next thing is - probably I was a little bit unclear there - before you want you duplicate one project (including all related things) from one sparse bundle or image you have to make sure there is enough space on the source volume in this case your sparse (bundle). If there is not at least 20 % free space resize it. So opening the Finder info for this sparse image volume will show you the used space and the free space.
Duplicating from FCPX will collect all needed files first on the source volume and will verify each file collected. This often enough needs a lot of disk space - and it takes time.

X-Files Pro can be downloaded here.
http://www.spherico.com/filmtools/X-Files/index.html

It will help you to make Disk Image handling easier -- though it can't take all burden when working with them.
As said read the manual and will understand much better.

-Andreas

Spherico
http://www.spherico.com/filmtools
X-Files Pro, tools for working with FCPX
http://www.spherico.com/filmtools/X-Files/index.html

"He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby
become a monster. And if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will
also gaze into thee." - Friedrich Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil


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Lucy Slavinsky
Re: FCPX doesnt duplicate project from space disc image
on Sep 16, 2013 at 4:48:07 pm

Thank you very much! The clearest possible explanation.
Best,

Lucy


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