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Using the Prores Proxy media imported

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Tobias Heilmann
Using the Prores Proxy media imported
on Aug 4, 2013 at 5:31:04 am

Hi,

I am coming with ProRes Proxy Media from RedcineX Pro. Importing Media into FCPX. I also have uncompressed 1080p footage in the event, which I already converted to proxies in FCPX.

When wanting to edit in Proxy mode, FCPX shows my r3d Proxies with a yellow triangle, as it is not showing matching media in the proxy folder.

Ok, I could now transcode the media to proxy media but I loose quality doing so and it seems silly transcoding Prores Proxy media into Prores Proxy media...

Is there a workaround to this?

Thank you!

In Touch Media Entertainment
Munich, Germany


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Ronny Courtens
Re: Using the Prores Proxy media imported
on Aug 4, 2013 at 1:46:01 pm

Hi Tobias,

To work in proxy mode in FCPX you need to:

1. Import your original media files (or link to them) in FCPX.
The clips (or links) will reside inside the Original Media folder of your Event.

2. Create proxy files from your imported media files in FCPX.
The proxy files will reside inside the Transcoded Media > Proxy Media folder of your Event.

You can only work in proxy mode with media that reside inside the Proxy Media folder. The huge advantage of this workflow is that you can easily switch back and forth from proxies to original media, allowing you to edit with proxies and export at full quality with just two clicks. Now on to your question:

You have imported Red Proxy media made from your R3D files. These media only reside in the Original Media folder of your Event and not in the Proxy Media folder. That's why these files show "offline" when you switch to proxy mode. You can do three things to solve this issue.

1. Create proxy media from your Red Proxy clips. Yes you may lose some quality in this process, but that's only for the proxy editing mode. When your edit is done switch back to Original mode and export your edit using the originally imported media.

2. You can go into your Event > Original Media folder and ALT-drag all your Red Proxy files into the Transcoded Media > Proxy Media folder. When you re-open FCPX and you switch to proxy mode FCPX will see the original RED Proxy files in the Proxy Media folder and all will be good.

I have tried this, it works, but it is a Finder operation and I personally don't like to do many Finder operations with FCPX. Furthermore I think this defeats the whole purpose of working in proxy mode in FCPX. But if that's what you want you can do it this way.

3. You don't need to work with Red Proxy media in FCPX. Here's a detailed report on how to edit with native R3D files and proxy media in FCPX: http://www.moviemaker.com/diy/movies-better-fcp-x-red-feature-film-workflow...

- Ronny


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Oliver Peters
Re: Using the Prores Proxy media imported
on Aug 4, 2013 at 8:54:13 pm

I'm cutting a film shot on RED and have found the whole FCP X RED R3D/proxy workflow to be a bit problematic. There seems to be a conflict with the RED Rocket card (others have posted this, too, at RedUser). Bottom line - I could not get X to transcode a full set of dailies into proxy without several force quits. I attempted to create proxies externally and place them into the right folders, but linking was completely messed up at that point. My gut feeling is that once you started one way in an Event you cannot go back.

On that film, we blew off the first day and restarted, using Redcine-X Pro to create "dailies" for editing. These are imported into X as standard media files (no toggle to proxy used). I will relink later in Resolve to the R3D camera files, when we move to that stage of the process.

I have also done some more testing in the past couple of days with the FCP X original/proxy workflow, but using Alexa QT files and it worked like a charm. Basically I had two versions of the files - ProRes4444 camera files and ProResLT that were color corrected and with TC burn (separately created via batch export from FCP 7). The KEY is that both sets MUST have identical file names, TC and durations. In this test, I linked to the PR4444, but placed the PRLT files into the Event - Transcoded Media - Proxy Media folder. FCP X easily switched back-and-forth between the two sets of files.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Ronny Courtens
Re: Using the Prores Proxy media imported
on Aug 5, 2013 at 5:27:21 am

Oliver,

The issue seems to be with a memory leak in the latest firmware update of the RedRocket card. We haven't had any problems with FCPX and the RedRocket card so far, probably because we haven't updated ours yet. Or maybe because most of the programs we get that were shot on RED are short form.

Anyway, it seems like dropping pre-created proxy or LT files into the Proxy Media folder does seem to be a valid workflow as long as the "proxies" have the exact same file name, TC and duration as the original media. I like your idea of using source TC burn in the proxies. Might use this on a next project, thank you.

- Ronny


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Bill Davis
Re: Using the Prores Proxy media imported
on Aug 5, 2013 at 6:02:28 pm

Agree this is interesting!

Thanks Oliver, for figuring this out!

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Jeff Kirkland
Re: Using the Prores Proxy media imported
on Aug 6, 2013 at 11:40:53 pm

[Ronny Courtens] "Anyway, it seems like dropping pre-created proxy or LT files into the Proxy Media folder does seem to be a valid workflow as long as the "proxies" have the exact same file name, TC and duration as the original media."

Yes, I've done this a lot on Canon 5D projects where I get Magic Bullet Grinder to create the full-res version and create a proxy with timecode burned in. Just drop the proxy files into the appropriate folder and FCPX always seems happy enough to use them.

For me it means a couple of clicks and I can switch between editing footage with TC and other data burned in and just the clean footage.

Jeff Kirkland | Video Producer | Southern Creative Media | Melbourne Australia
http://www.southerncreative.com.au | G+: http://gplus.to/jeffkirkland | Twitter: @jeffkirkland


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Tobias Heilmann
Re: Using the Prores Proxy media imported
on Aug 7, 2013 at 7:14:23 am

Thank you all for your thoughts.

In general I like the functionality of creating proxies and switching back and forth right in FCPX.

Normally, when shooting entire projects on Red, we go the route that Oliver also described.

We process 720p Prores Proxy media in RCX Pro, import into FCPX and edit (not creating proxies upon import). When then go on to Resolve to the r3ds.

In this case however, the client supplied us with some existing full res uncompressed 1080p footage, thus wanting to use the proxy mode, when on the road.

But again, it seems silly to have FCPX create proxies from proxies and I percieve the quality loss as significant (considering we do a full debayer in RCXP for these proxies, so they look they best they can).

So as suggested, I duplicated the proxies into the FCPX proxy folder and it works.

I would be great, if FCPX could recognize the incoming Prores Proxy codec, and thus automatically eliminating the need to duplicate all this footage into another folder.

In Touch Media Entertainment
Munich, Germany


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David Battistella
Re: Using the Prores Proxy media imported
on Aug 8, 2013 at 7:38:59 am

[Oliver Peters] "I'm cutting a film shot on RED and have found the whole FCP X RED R3D/proxy workflow to be a bit problematic. There seems to be a conflict with the RED Rocket card (others have posted this, too, at RedUser). "

I have had no problems at all on a machine that DOES NOT have a rocket installed. So it could very well be the way the rocket is interacting with FCP X or vice versa. That said, it is a fairly fast render and when done this way the workflow is silky smooth.

David

______________________________

http://www.davidbattistella.com



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Christian Hart
Re: Using the Prores Proxy media imported
on Jan 16, 2014 at 7:35:02 am

A related question to add to this threat if that's ok?

I have a feature to cut that was shot r3d then transcoded to ProRes using redcinex - Sunc & organized in FCP7 (original intention to cut in FCP7)

I'd like to cut in FCPX using those ProRes files as my proxies
From the above posts by Ronnie and Oliver it *seems* like that should be possible...
eg. Bring my r3d files into FCPX and then put ProRes files (already transcoded) into the proxy folders at the finder level

But i'd also like to make use of the sunc timelines from FCP7 (sunc by clapper, not the on camera audio which can be frames off) using 7 to X
rather than using the auto sync to similar waveforms from camera audio
So im thinking to do the FCP7 to FCPX thing via 7 to X first then once that's all done, re-organize, add metadata, roles etc THEN bring in proxies..

Any foolhardy things I am suggesting here?
Advice & tips greatly appreciated as this will be my first FCPX project (though i have done a fair bit of reading)

best.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Using the Prores Proxy media imported
on Jan 16, 2014 at 1:09:41 pm
Last Edited By Oliver Peters on Jan 16, 2014 at 1:10:17 pm

10.1 no longer seems to let you do this. At least in my testing, it didn't work after the update. I could not get FCP X 10.1 to treat externally created proxies as if they were FCP X proxies. You should let FCP X regenerate new proxies from the R3D files.This should work fine as long as you do not have a Red Rocket card installed. I've run into conflicts between RR and FCP X. If you want to work with your existing proxies, then cut with those as if they were the camera original files and then use Resolve to relink to the R3D camera files.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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james Lackleter
Re: Using the Prores Proxy media imported
on Feb 1, 2014 at 11:48:08 pm

I strongly advise against using the red code unless you have a red rocket. As the timeline becomes longer and more files are added, it becomes extremely sluggish and unresponsive. I'm currently creating proxies and as Oliver said, let FCPX create them to avoid issues.

I was not given any options to change the resolution size, this is odd. Some of these features are to automated I think. But anyway a workaround is to change the resolution size of the project and just revert back to your original.

Something else I found odd, there was no way to select only the clips in the timeline for proxy creation. This is what I was searching google for when I found this. Do you really have to go clip by clip for conversion in the timeline after you've already imported?

Anyway hope this helps someone. As of right now I'll just delete the proxies for the unused clips... This feature needs to be added, create proxies for timeline.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Using the Prores Proxy media imported
on Feb 2, 2014 at 12:15:23 am

You are supposed to create proxies first, before ever editing anything. The proxies are automatically 1/2 the size of the native files and use the ProRes Proxy codec. It doesn't matter what the timeline resolution is, because FCP X tracks what it is supposed to do with the relative scaling of the proxies versus the originals. As an aside, if you plan on using Resolve, the FCPXML is correct in Resolve, but it does not correctly roundtrip back into FCP X, if there is a need to do so.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Jordi J Recort
Re: Using the Prores Proxy media imported
on Feb 6, 2014 at 11:44:55 am

Hello there,

I have the current scenario,
RED files converted to Prores 1080 as proxy with RED-Cine.
Director has imported and did the first cut with the Prores files as originals

Now I have to do the online relinking the original red files.
And obviously doing a Relink media files don't work because the extension is different.

So as I have read, it's as easy as moving the prores files to the proxies folder and copy the red files to the originals folder?

Sounds too easy for me!

Actually we're on 10.0.9 because 10.1 came in during the editing and we didn't dare to take the risk to update in the middle of a project. (call me "old school" guy)

Thanks in advance!

Jordi

Jordi J. Recort

Composer & Editor


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Christian Hart
Re: Using the Prores Proxy media imported
on Mar 10, 2014 at 10:08:51 pm

Oh gosh Oliver i didn't know you had replied to this - thank you!! - coming back to the project now and looked up my post and saw it!


I'm thinking to take your second suggestion - just edit with my pro-res and then the colourist should be able to reconnect to the R3D files if the names of the clips are the same...
Of course i will test first but does anyone have a link to ideas to best practices when doing this?
I'm a bit of a noob when it comes to FCPX and in fact when it comes to using resolve...


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Oliver Peters
Re: Using the Prores Proxy media imported
on Mar 11, 2014 at 12:01:19 am

No problem. Good luck.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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