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transitions within multicam

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Jacob Brown
transitions within multicam
on Jul 17, 2013 at 7:04:25 pm

Editing a music video multicam clip.

Whole thing shot on a white background.

Many times I shift a clip left or right or shrink it, and layer plain white underneath so that it appears that the singer is still in front of all white.

Problem I am having is that when I dissolve between two clips the dissolve ignores the white layer below it and I get a hard line across the frame during the dissolve.

I've tried turning the relevant multicam clips into compound clips with their white layer underneath, but FCPX doesnt create handles to the compound clip and therefore can't apply a transition.

anyone have any ideas?

this is a screenshot of the hard lines that happen during transitions:


and this is a screenshot of corresponding portion of the timeline:


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Daniel Bernard
Re: transitions within multicam
on Jul 17, 2013 at 7:31:44 pm

Hello,

have you tried exporting that part as a QT? By default, FCPX preferences is set to Playback Settings - BETTER PERFORMANCE. While it goes smoother with this settings, it sometimes show strange behaviors on playbacks that aren't really there. For example, on Better Performance, when i play back a video with a hard matter 2.35, it leaves a white line all around the black frame. If I export a QT, it's not there and if I use the Setting Better quality, it is fine.

Give it a shot and tell me how it goes.

Dan


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Jacob Brown
Re: transitions within multicam
on Jul 17, 2013 at 7:37:08 pm

hmm good idea, but i just tried it and it doesnt help at all.

i just tried creating a compound clip with handles manually, and still as soon as it hit the dissolve the edge of frame started showing despite being compounded with an all white clip.


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Daniel Bernard
Re: transitions within multicam
on Jul 17, 2013 at 8:15:33 pm

Ok, I had another suggestion in mind too.
Have you tried Blading the solid underneath and simply applying the transition to both, Multiclip and White solid?
It may seems like a stupid solution, but it might do the trick.


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Daniel Bernard
Re: transitions within multicam
on Jul 17, 2013 at 8:19:23 pm

Ok, new answer for you. Just checked it out with a colleague at work and we noticed something:
The straight cut that is over the clip, isn't it the border of the clip your transiting too? I mean, the white background of the clip isn't an Alpha channel, it's solid white. You could either try masking it or doing a keying it. I believe there is a basic keying tool in FCPX, you could give that a shot. I'm pretty positive that it's the root of your problem.


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Jacob Brown
Re: transitions within multicam
on Jul 17, 2013 at 8:26:23 pm

The edge is actually the left edge of the clip I am transitioning from. I have translated the entire frame to the right leaving empty space. The white generator below is filling that space.

Is the fact I'm using generator the problem?


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Daniel Bernard
Re: transitions within multicam
on Jul 17, 2013 at 8:41:50 pm

The generator has nothing to do from my understanding of you project.
The edge comes from one of your clips, so it needs to be fixed on you clip. As i said, masking it or keying the white should do the trick, I see no way around, because when in transition, you have 50% opicity of eachclip, if one of them has a hard white edge, you'll feel it on the other image. You could also just soften it by using a multi point garbage matte and using feathering. Here is a link to a quick tutorial on the 8 point garbage matte
http://www.rippletraining.com/using-the-8-point-garbage-matte-in-final-cut-...


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Jacob Brown
Re: transitions within multicam
on Jul 17, 2013 at 8:53:32 pm

Right I get that. I guess what I want to do is fill in that empty space at edge of frame with white. (Well that's what I have done but it doesn't "stick" through the dissolve.)

That's why I was trying to compound clip it with the generator but even when I do that the line reappears.

If I mask it I am still going to have a line though it may be a fade or something, it's still not going to match the whiteness of rest of frame, right? Or am I missing something?


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Jeff Kirkland
Re: transitions within multicam
on Jul 17, 2013 at 8:51:24 pm

Another thought along the alpha channel lines could be to play with compositing modes.

If all else fails you might try creating a custom dissolve transition in Motion that does what you need. You should be able to open the existing one in Motion and hopefully "fix" whatever is causing the issue.

Jeff Kirkland | Video Producer | Southern Creative Media | Melbourne Australia
http://www.southerncreative.com.au | G+: http://gplus.to/jeffkirkland | Twitter: @jeffkirkland


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Jacob Brown
Re: transitions within multicam
on Jul 17, 2013 at 10:03:42 pm

ok so i just put a thin mask around the frame, and it worked perfectly. (mask shifts with the transformation which was nice, thought i was going to have to keyframe its movement)

i have feeling this is something i should know, but does masking, cause alpha to show through in a way that simply transforming the frame to the left or right does not?


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Nikolas Bäurle
Re: transitions within multicam
on Jul 17, 2013 at 10:46:01 pm

You can easily create handles by extending your footage past the compounds in and out points, inside the compound. The process with the white background is very similar in FCP7 using a compound, and its actually the fastes way to do so for what your trying. I do it quite often for one of my industry clients whenever I get compressed crappy grafics on white.

"Always look on the bright side of life" - Monty Python



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Jacob Brown
Re: transitions within multicam
on Jul 17, 2013 at 10:51:30 pm

So i was doing the compound, and i figured out how to open it in timeline and make handles, but still withe the dissolve transition, for some reason, FCPX ignores the second white layer below during the transition.

I just tried putting the white on top of the image though, and set opacity to darken, and it seems to work now.

Very strange the way it ignores the white layer when its below. i feel like this is something unique to multicam?


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Nikolas Bäurle
Re: transitions within multicam
on Jul 17, 2013 at 11:55:49 pm

It's not ignoring the white, what's happening is that by adding the white you have a double white layer where the image is and a single white layer over the black portion. It's happens in Legacy as well, compounds solve this. I've never done it with a multicam though, it's very possible that there's some funky stuff going on, I'll see if I can recreate the problem when I get home.

You could move the Multicam to the secondary storyline and layer the portions adding dissolves to each, by default X adds them at the beginning and end of a storyline. Perhaps there's something going on with the cross dissolve and the multicam.

"Always look on the bright side of life" - Monty Python



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Jacob Brown
Re: transitions within multicam
on Jul 18, 2013 at 12:14:41 am

yeah i'm not 100% sure but i dont think i have had this exact issue with non-multicam composites before.

but putting the white layer on top and setting the blend to darken seems to work fine.

luckily it treats empty space no as dark but as empty, that saves me.


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Bret Williams
Re: transitions within multicam
on Jul 18, 2013 at 4:01:15 am

Where are you adding the white layer beneath? I see in your original post a dissolve between two multicam shots and a white generator below. That would definitely cause the problem you're seeing because essentially you're dissolving two clips that aren't solid (because you moved them) and the result of that dissolve is being placed over white. So during the dissolve you have a blend of their two alphas. But I thought you had created some compounds where the white was inside the compounds, and had dissolved between the two compounds. If that doesn't work, yep its a bug. Legacy was full of that stuff. It never really understood how to dissolve alphas. And since it appears they copied and pasted the keyframing engine, they probably copied and pasted some of the keying engine code too.

Dissolving between compositing/blending modes generally never produces results that are what you'd want. If you found a way that works. Go with it.


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Nikolas Bäurle
Re: transitions within multicam
on Jul 18, 2013 at 5:36:02 pm

6274_multicamdissolveonwhite.jpg.zip

"Always look on the bright side of life" - Monty Python



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Nikolas Bäurle
Re: transitions within multicam
on Jul 18, 2013 at 5:47:31 pm

This is a before and after using compound



6276_multicamdissolveonwhiteproblem.png.zip


6277_multicamdissolveonwhitewithcompoundsolution.png.zip

"Always look on the bright side of life" - Monty Python



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David Eaks
Re: transitions within multicam
on Jul 18, 2013 at 6:36:19 pm

Here's the pics he uploaded-

Multicam transition over white-


Dissolve on white problem-


Dissolve on white with compound solution-


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Jacob Brown
Re: transitions within multicam
on Jul 18, 2013 at 6:54:09 pm

So what were the transparency settings on your compound clip?


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Nikolas Bäurle
Re: transitions within multicam
on Jul 18, 2013 at 8:06:41 pm

I left the default settings . Blend Mode: Normal opacity:100%


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Jacob Brown
Re: transitions within multicam
on Jul 19, 2013 at 4:29:42 pm

Perhaps the difference is that I shifted the frames in the main timeline not within the angle editor.

Within the angle editor, ever frame was full frame. But then in the timeline, after edit complete, I was animating movement of the frames to make the figure look like it was moving around.

The only way the transition would then work for me was to create the compound clip with the white layer on top with the transparency set to darken. Who knows :)


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Nikolas Bäurle
Re: transitions within multicam
on Jul 19, 2013 at 4:40:13 pm

That could be it.


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