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BUG: Clips in timeline slip 5 frames for no reason - REALLY FRUSTRATING

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Eddie Adams
BUG: Clips in timeline slip 5 frames for no reason - REALLY FRUSTRATING
on Jun 28, 2013 at 4:48:20 am

So I have three interviews: A, B, and C. I've arranged everything in my timeline and output a cut. I get notes back from the producer, so I go to re-open the project, only now... interviews A and B are fine, but every "C" clip in the timeline has slipped it's in point by about 5 frames or so, destroying the entire edit. This has happened TWICE now on separate occasions to completely different clips. Has anybody else seen a bug like this? It's insanely frustrating and time consuming to fix. Thanks.


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Bill Davis
Re: BUG: Clips in timeline slip 5 frames for no reason - REALLY FRUSTRATING
on Jun 28, 2013 at 9:52:57 am

[Eddie Adams] "So I have three interviews: A, B, and C. I've arranged everything in my timeline and output a cut. I get notes back from the producer, so I go to re-open the project, only now... interviews A and B are fine, but every "C" clip in the timeline has slipped it's in point by about 5 frames or so, destroying the entire edit. This has happened TWICE now on separate occasions to completely different clips. Has anybody else seen a bug like this? It's insanely frustrating and time consuming to fix. Thanks."

I don't know about anyone else, but you're not being specific enough for me to have a clue how to help you.

You're not specifying what content you've got in the Primary. Which (if any) clips are in a Secondary, whether you're using connected clips or compound clips, or multi-cam clips or telling me much of anything else that could help me orient myself into making suggestions about what might be happening.

If you want specific help. you need to BE specific. (Maybe post a picture of your timeline so we can SEE how you've arranged things.)

Without something more, I simply haven't a clue how to help you.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: BUG: Clips in timeline slip 5 frames for no reason - REALLY FRUSTRATING
on Jun 28, 2013 at 3:21:37 pm

The only time I have seen things slip without any warming is adding a dissolve to the first clip in a primary.

It does weird things to timing sometimes if there aren't enough handles.

It's easier to put as a secondary storyline and add the dissolve there.

I don't know if this pertains to your situation or not.


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Eddie Adams
Re: BUG: Clips in timeline slip 5 frames for no reason - REALLY FRUSTRATING
on Jun 29, 2013 at 12:54:10 am

Jeremy, although I don't think there was ever a dissolve on the first clip in the primary, the first clip is the same interview (master file) that i'm having the issues with, and many of the clips referring to the master further down the timeline do have 2-frame dissolves on them to bridge frankenbite edits. After fixing the problem by sliding all the clips -15 frames as needed for proper adjustment, I went to open the file today and everything is f-ed again, same as before.

Bill - I apologize for the vagueness of the post. I wasn't really asking for help or troubleshooting tips - more just seeing if anybody had seen issues like that before. I've attached a screenshot to illustrate my setup.



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: BUG: Clips in timeline slip 5 frames for no reason - REALLY FRUSTRATING
on Jun 29, 2013 at 1:04:56 am

In your first post, you mention it's clip "C" that is slipping. Is it only clips from that one clip?

Have to tried trashing prefs, starting a new Project and pasting your edit in to it?

What is the source of clip "C"?


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Eddie Adams
Re: BUG: Clips in timeline slip 5 frames for no reason - REALLY FRUSTRATING
on Jun 29, 2013 at 1:10:41 am

hey Jeremy - the clips that are problems are named "2 Lacey & Justin" and all refer to the same master file. This has been the problem the last two times around. Initially, I had the exact same problem with a file called "3 Cooks", completely different master file - slid all those clips -15 frames to fix it, and havent had any issues since.

Yup, first thing I did was restart, trash preferences, copy-paste into new project file, everything - no luck.

Clips are HDV's captured using FCP7. Just doesn't make any sense - and is actually one of many bugs I've been finding in FCPX - so it looks like I'm gonna have to jump back onto Premiere, I just cant afford all the downtime this has caused me.


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Eddie Adams
Re: BUG: Clips in timeline slip 5 frames for no reason - REALLY FRUSTRATING
on Jun 29, 2013 at 1:13:50 am

Here's another issue I've been having, in a completely different project. You select a series of clips and group them - suddenly within the group there are one-frame gaps between each clip.



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: BUG: Clips in timeline slip 5 frames for no reason - REALLY FRUSTRATING
on Jun 29, 2013 at 1:19:18 am

This sounds like a frame rate problem to me.

I'd be curious if this happened with fcpx captured clips.


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Eddie Adams
Re: BUG: Clips in timeline slip 5 frames for no reason - REALLY FRUSTRATING
on Jun 29, 2013 at 1:24:00 am

That was my thought initially but all clips are 29.97i, same as project - there is absolutely no mixing of frame rates anywhere. The reason I don't capture in FCPX is because the program has a known bug (which I experienced) where if a tape "rolls out" during a capture, it dumps the whole segment and you lose that capture.


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Eddie Adams
Re: BUG: Clips in timeline slip 5 frames for no reason - REALLY FRUSTRATING
on Jun 29, 2013 at 2:00:58 am

My thought is that its probably related to the fact I'm editing HDV native without converting to ProRes. FCPX claims to handle HDV natively without the need for transcoding, but I'm suspecting this is not actually the case.

From wikipedia: "Up to 15 frames per each cut may be re-encoded because of the long-GOP nature of HDV video."

My issue was frames slipping exactly 15 frames....


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Eddie Adams
Re: BUG: Clips in timeline slip 5 frames for no reason - REALLY FRUSTRATING
on Jun 29, 2013 at 2:10:47 am

Actually, FCPX does not even allow you to transcode HDV footage.... wtf?


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: BUG: Clips in timeline slip 5 frames for no reason - REALLY FRUSTRATING
on Jun 29, 2013 at 2:52:10 am

No, it's supposedly already "optimized".

My guess is that there's something weird with the fcp7 captures that X doesn't like. The math is completely different.

In your screen grab with the gap clips, it seems to be very regular, which seems buggy.

Unfortunately, I don't have much HDV experience in either app, hopefully someone else can chime in.

I have used many multiclips and haven't seen anything slip like that.

Be sure to file a bug with Apple.

I wonder if you remade the edit with ProRes transcodes if things would be better, but that's a lot of work since X is terrible at reconnecting to different versions of the same source.


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Bill Davis
Re: BUG: Clips in timeline slip 5 frames for no reason - REALLY FRUSTRATING
on Jun 29, 2013 at 8:29:49 pm

And just for grins... go back to the original FCP-7 files and take a hard look at the AUDIO components.

Back when I was editing on 7 for all those years, one constant source of offset problems that resemble you're in my clips was having the video locked to one time base - but having the audio set at different sampling rates.

If the software is transcoding to even FRAMES - but there's audio samples "hanging over" - then the software could easily think it needs to add a visual "frame" of nothing to allow the audio sample frequency to complete it's calculations of a full sample.

My overall advice is that if you must start out working with serious transcoding of long-GOP style predictive frame content - you're GOING to have problems downstream unless you carefully transcode EVERYTHING into a full frame format that newer editing software can dependably work with.

And "capturing" via FCP-7 - which is Quicktime-based rather than AV Foundation and Core Video based is a very poor way to start any edit that's destined to be done in X.

Put simply, you need to get OUT of the decade and a half year old imprecise world of legacy technology and get your work into a modern data stream as soon as you can.

And working in FCP-Legacy is NOT a good way to do this. Apple jettisoned all that underlying technology for a reason.

FWIW.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Eddie Adams
Re: BUG: Clips in timeline slip 5 frames for no reason - REALLY FRUSTRATING
on Jul 1, 2013 at 7:25:56 pm

Hi Bill, audio sample rates were all constant at 48khz, but I'm familiar with the issue you're mentioning. I would love to ditch FCP7 completely, but unfortunately as discussed earlier, FCPX has a serious bug which makes capturing HDV tapes difficult. For now I will simply transcode to ProRes and keep my fingers crossed - any more issues though and I'm likely jumping back to Premiere.


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Eddie Adams
Re: BUG: Clips in timeline slip 5 frames for no reason - REALLY FRUSTRATING
on Jul 1, 2013 at 7:22:44 pm

Replacing all my clips with transcoded versions within the "Events" folder fixed the issue and gave me no problems with the reconnect (as long as the framerate and size matches its usually all good). Interestingly enough, I now have to slip everything BACK 15 frames to make it right again, since the ProRes fixed the issue. I would say this definitely is an issue relating to long-gop edits, so moving forward I will just transcode to ProRes before importing into FCPX.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: BUG: Clips in timeline slip 5 frames for no reason - REALLY FRUSTRATING
on Jul 1, 2013 at 7:25:23 pm

I know you said there's a bug with FCPX HDV captures, but I'd be curious if that fixed it as well, or maybe FCPX captures HDV as ProRes anyway? I don't know. I know you could do this with FCP7 (HDV as ProRes).


Thanks for posting back.


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