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montage workflow suggestions

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Craig Alan
montage workflow suggestions
on Jun 25, 2013 at 7:50:07 pm

Working on my first montage video in FCP X.

I put a music track on the primary storyline (I am willing to reconsider this). I connected a bunch of stills and video clips to it. What is the best way to edit the music track at various points without changing the position of the connected clips?

For example, I want to start the song at frame 1 of my project but trim the first 10 seconds of the song without leaving a gap or trimming or moving any of the connected clips from their current position in time – what is the best way to do this?

Larry Jordan suggests in an article that you should edit your music track before beginning to edit connected clips to it. Though the suggestion makes sense, I get a better feel for the composition once I play the audio and visual together on the time line. I also want to cut to silence at various points inserting a gap at the end of which the song continues where it left off (as opposed to fading out and fading in further into the song).

If I was just dealing with creating a gap on the primary story line I’d use the position tool to leave a gap but this will affect the connected clips as well and I want to leave them where they are.

I know I can reposition all the connected clips (to start 10 seconds in for example) and then trim the primary but it seems rather tedious.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Loren Risker
Re: montage workflow suggestions
on Jun 25, 2013 at 8:01:25 pm

I would either use a secondary storyline for your clips, or connect the audio to a short gap clip at the beginning and edit your montage clips in the primary storyline.

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OutOfFocus.TV - Original series, music videos, and entertainment for your couch.


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Craig Alan
Re: montage workflow suggestions
on Jun 25, 2013 at 8:15:42 pm

Thank you. These were the exactly the type of things I was considering.

If I turn the connected clips into a secondary story line then it is connected at one point to the primary?

Can I go back and forth with these options?

For example, can I turn my connected clips into a secondary story line giving me the advantage of essentially two tracks, but then turn them back into regular connected clips so I can independently connect clips to the primary at specific points? (without undoing previous edits).

Also if I am happy with say the first 30 seconds of my project, can I turn that 30 seconds into a compound clip and then un-compound it if needed?

If I take your suggestion of using a gap clip as the primary story line, don't I loose all the editing options that the primary has? For example trim tools and transitions?

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Loren Risker
Re: montage workflow suggestions
on Jun 25, 2013 at 8:53:35 pm

If I turn the connected clips into a secondary story line then it is connected at one point to the primary?

Yes.

Can I go back and forth with these options?

Yes. Just right click and either lift to storyline or overwrite to storyline.

If I take your suggestion of using a gap clip as the primary story line, don't I loose all the editing options that the primary has? For example trim tools and transitions?

I'm suggesting to use a 1 frame or 1 second gap clip on your primary story line that you can connect your audio to, so that it doesn't move as you trim your montage clips in the primary storyline.

-------------
OutOfFocus.TV - Original series, music videos, and entertainment for your couch.


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Craig Alan
Re: montage workflow suggestions
on Jun 25, 2013 at 9:33:02 pm

Thanks.
Just to be clear: this means that the music would be a connected clip and/or a secondary story line.

And the visuals are now the primary story line. With the advantage that since the music is attached to a short gap clip, the visuals can be edited without the music getting pushed around.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Loren Risker
Re: montage workflow suggestions
on Jun 25, 2013 at 9:33:54 pm

Exactly.

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OutOfFocus.TV - Original series, music videos, mini-docs.


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Craig Alan
Re: montage workflow suggestions
on Jun 25, 2013 at 9:37:46 pm

Got it. Thank you so much. I'll give it a shot.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Bret Williams
Re: montage workflow suggestions
on Jun 26, 2013 at 12:56:11 am

Another option - added in 10.0.7 I think. You want to move your primary (music track) independent of all the clips connected to it? Hold down the tilde key (one just below the esc key) and use the P tool to move your music (primary) track.


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Craig Alan
Re: montage workflow suggestions
on Jun 26, 2013 at 3:42:02 am

Thanks. That was what I was originally asking for. And I'll try it out. Enjoying the use of secondary timelines and compound clips as an organization tool on the timeline. I like being able to group and ungroup sets of clips in order to work with them in different ways.

One thing that confused me at first was why FC did not let me create a secondary timeline out of all my connected clips. Then I realized I could not highlight a clip on a third track. But that third track clip was a title that I wanted aligned with a clip on the secondary timeline. So I undid the grouping (break apart) and created a compound clip out of the title and the "parent" clip. Then I created the secondary. This worked fine though it seems like an extra step that is unnecessary. No reason that a secondary timeline should not be able to have their own connected clips.

If I decide to then break apart the compounded clip, the clip that was on the third track reconnects with the primary. I guess it's no big deal since if I adjust its location I can then re-compound it. I did notice that unlike my first attempt, I was able to do so without the secondary being broken up first.

Does this mean I can always add a connected clip to a clip in the secondary by creating a compound of it and the new parent? And could have done this from the get go? I guess it keeps things neater.

Or is there yet another feature that allows direct connections to other than the primary story line?

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Bret Williams
Re: montage workflow suggestions
on Jun 26, 2013 at 4:55:42 am

A lot there in that post. You've pretty much got it figured out. Bottom line(s)- you can only have transitions on clips that are in the primary or in a secondary. Clips can only be connected to the primary. Secondarys can't have their own connected clips. If you want a connected clip to stay aligned with a clip in a secondary, then I would just let them both remain connected to the same clip in the primary. You can change the point of connection by cmd+option+click on the spot on the connected clip (or the little frame around the secondary) where you want the point to be. Yeah, if you adjust stuff in the secondary you'll have to adjust the placement of the connected clip to keep it aligned. But such is the case in any editor pretty much.


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Craig Alan
Re: montage workflow suggestions
on Jun 27, 2013 at 12:19:23 am

Thanks Brett,

Kinda getting a feel for these new workflows (for me) for this montage. When I started in X with a few short form narratives and one documentary, I found the story line/connected clips way of working quite intuitive and didn't run into any "how come I can't" moments. So this has been a good exercise.

Not sure i got one part of your post.

[Bret Williams] "You can change the point of connection by cmd+option+click on the spot on the connected clip (or the little frame around the secondary) where you want the point to be. "

If both are connected to the primary story line why would you change where on the connected clip the point of attachment is? Isn't the point of attachment at the beginning of the connected clip to a point in the primary? Or this is just a way to get the little Q tail attachment lines to be less cluttered and doesn't really change where it begins in relation to the primary?

Isn't it less informative to have the connection point not at the beginning of the connected clip? Or does it actually ripple the clip to a new place on the primary?

And is it just me or are these lines not really all that visible? I know I can zoom in just like in 7 but this is the part of editing that I find the most tedious: The visual strain of needing to see both the zoom in and zoom out view of the time line.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Bret Williams
Re: montage workflow suggestions
on Jun 29, 2013 at 4:34:41 am

You might want a clip to be connected to a clip that it just barely overlays at the end of the clip. The connection just starts at the start. If you were to roll the clip out to the left, the connection would remain at the same point. Lots of scenarios where the point would change or you would want it to change. But yeah, 90% of the time I don't pay any attention. But a song is a good example. What if you back time a song to the end of the video? As you move around stuff and the magnetic timeline adjusts you'd want that music track connected to the last clip on the timeline, not the first. So moving the connection point is just another tool.


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Craig Alan
Re: montage workflow suggestions
on Jun 29, 2013 at 6:46:44 pm

Got it. Thanks. The connection point gives you some counter-control over magnetic or any other behavior. Keep this connection at this point. So, for example, this action stays aligned with this lyric no matter what else is moved around.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Brett Sherman
Re: montage workflow suggestions
on Jun 28, 2013 at 4:27:23 pm

The transitions have always annoyed me because it often forces you to place a clip within a secondary storyline that logically that clip should not be in. Or move a clip from primary to secondary when it really belongs in the primary. Basically it forces you to break your organizational structure. I don't see why you can't just transition out of any clip without it being in a storyline. Also it should just understand you're transitioning to whatever is under it, so it would work properly with a two sided transition like a cube spin.


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