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Keyframed movements continue after keyframes end

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Michael Spikes
Keyframed movements continue after keyframes end
on May 6, 2013 at 6:37:55 pm

Having a serious issue with FCPX:

I have a video with a speaker who refers to a few websites during his talk. At the times that he refers to said websites, I create a picture in picture effect by shrinking and moving his video while using a transition to bring a screenshot of the website on screen. When he finishes, I do the opposite effect, transitioning the screenshot out while bringing the video of the speaker back into the full view of the screen.

Here's the problem. After my key framed movement of the speaker's video moves it back into place (X=0, Y=0, Scale=100%), the video keeps moving along the X axis until it is fully off screen, and then moves itself back to the center before starting the next instance of the same move. There are NO other keyframes set on the video to indicate I want this move--it just does it by itself.

If my explanation still didn't make sense, you can see what I'm talking about here:






I've tried everything I can think of to try and fix:
- Duplicated the project, deleted all of the keyframes and set the movements again
- Isolated the video into another project, and tried setting the keyframes again
- Trashed my preferences, then repaired disk permissions in Disk Utility

At this point, I'm completely baffled, thinking that it must be a bug or something. Has anyone else had this happen?


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Andy Neil
Re: Keyframed movements continue after keyframes end
on May 6, 2013 at 8:03:43 pm

Try making add edits on either side of the keyframed movement. It's hard to tell what's going on without seeing your project. It sounds like you have a bezier curve between two keyframes with the same value (0,0). Since FCPX defaults to bezier keyframed movements, it's screwing up the interpolation between the end of one animation and the beginning of another. Adding add-edits so that the keyframes are isolated might fix that for you. Of course you may have to do the keyframing over again.

You could also try changing the interpolation to linear and see if that clears it up.

Andy

http://www.timesavertutorials.com


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Michael Spikes
Re: Keyframed movements continue after keyframes end
on May 7, 2013 at 3:09:19 pm

Here's a better explanation of my initial issue, along with screenshots. I decided to add it because I'm still having the same issue on this last movement.

1. Here's the initial image before changing anything. I have one track of video (speaker), and two pictures that will composited on top. I want to keyframe a movement of the speaker's video getting smaller, along with moving to the left to make room for the images. To do so, I set my playhead at the first frame of the split clip at 21:41:00, and set my first keyframe.




2. I move ahead to 21:42:04 to set the end of the movement. I use the numbers method by double clicking on the X value positioning under transform in the inspector. I type in the numbers and hit enter. The next keyframes are set.



3. Everything's fine... As the pictures transition out, I want the video of the speaker to scale back to 100%, and the position to go back to 0,0. To make sure that the image dosen't start moving until the beginning of the still image out transition, I move the playhead to 22:41:08 (the beginning of the first out transition), and set new keyframes by clicking on the keyframe "diamonds" next to position and scale under transform in the inspector

BUT WAIT--what's that?? All of a sudden, a rogue keyframe comes in that has the image go completely OFF SCREEN, although I didn't set it to do that.



Here's another picture of viewer window zoomed out to show the rogue movement.



That's my issue. I've gotten over this by adding cuts between the keyframes and just turning it off--but I shouldn't have to do that, should I?


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Bill Davis
Re: Keyframed movements continue after keyframes end
on May 6, 2013 at 8:04:47 pm

Sounds like you're dealing with the default "ease in and out" keyframe behavior built into X.

There's been TONS written on this over the past two years. Do a google search on "FCP-X keyframes" and study the replies.

Essentially, there's not just ONE kind of keyframe in X, tand the access to setting the keyframe type is a bit burried and obscure relative to the interface.

It's worth studying up on if you're going to keep using X.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Michael Spikes
Re: Keyframed movements continue after keyframes end
on May 6, 2013 at 9:24:45 pm

Ahh, I think I found it. Thank you Andy for your suggestion of doing an "Add Edit" (blade) right after my last keyframe, and before my next keyframe. In the new "split" clip, although I took out any keyframes, the image still moved around the screen as if I did. It also seems that you cannot edit the curves for Transform movements--just the opacity.... but that seems totally strange. (It's mentioned in the FCPX manual.)

Anywho, what I found that worked was turning off the transform in the split clip by clicking the blue square next to it either in the expanded video animations panel or the inspector. Now the clip is still. What a pain. This used to be much easier in FCP7...


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Nikolas Bäurle
Re: Keyframed movements continue after keyframes end
on May 7, 2013 at 12:52:16 am

I need to disagree with Andy on the "Add Edit" solution. This movement is not a bug but simply a bezier Keyframes. You can adjust all of this in the viewer I watched your example video and your full frame keyframes are beliers, which causes the movement.

if you click on the transform button in the viewer you will should see an animation path with a long curve.

Keyframing in X work perfectly fine and is a lot better than in FCP 7.

"Always look on the bright side of life" - Monty Python



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Andy Neil
Re: Keyframed movements continue after keyframes end
on May 7, 2013 at 2:15:07 am

[Nikolas Bäurle] "I need to disagree with Andy on the "Add Edit" solution. This movement is not a bug but simply a bezier Keyframes."

You didn't disagree with me. You stated the same thing I said, only differently. I never said the behavior was a bug, and I said it sounded like bezier interpolation. Read my last sentence, I even say to change the interpolation to linear.

[Nikolas Bäurle] "Keyframing in X work perfectly fine..."

1) Keyframing does NOT work perfectly fine in X as exemplified by the OPs issue. In fact, I'll go so far to say it sucks for any but the simplest of keyframe tasks. It defaults to bezier when it should default to linear. And it isn't even smart enough to realize that when you place two keyframes with the same value at either end of a segment of time, you don't want movement. So, no, it's not perfectly fine.

[Nikolas Bäurle] "...and is a lot better than in FCP 7."

Well, that wasn't a particularly high bar to overcome.

Andy

http://www.timesavertutorials.com


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Nikolas Bäurle
Re: Keyframed movements continue after keyframes end
on May 7, 2013 at 9:26:09 am

Sorry Andy I misinterpreted your response.

Personally I like the Keyframing, it's not on the level of Motion or AfterFX, there is some improving to be done, but it still works very well, I use it pretty much everyday, in a tight schedule. Perhaps it's just a matter of taste.

"Always look on the bright side of life" - Monty Python



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Mark Morache
Re: Keyframed movements continue after keyframes end
on May 7, 2013 at 9:41:03 am

Michael... give this a try.







It's a very strange workaround, but if your problem is interpolated bezier movement between two of the same keyframe values, this should clear it up.

Basically, you start at the first keyframe, go forward one frame and add and delete a new keyframe. I usually do this three times: add-delete-add-delete-add-delete. Then go to your next keyframe, back up one frame and do the same thing.

I believe when you add a keyframe one frame beyond another, it forces the bezier curve for the transform to become zero, and when you delete the keyframe, the zero curve stays. I don't get satisfaction from just trying to edit the transform points in the window. Not every parameter goes linear by doing that. My add/delete keyframe trick works however.

Hope this helps.

---------
Don't live your life in a secondary storyline.

Mark Morache
FCPX/FCP7/Xpri/Avid
Evening Magazine,Seattle, WA
http://fcpx.wordpress.com


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Bret Williams
Re: Keyframed movements continue after keyframes end
on May 7, 2013 at 2:04:26 pm

I've seen this too. I can't believe anyone would say keyframing is better in X. Different yes. Better, no. Both are convoluted in different ways. Apple truly doesn't understand keyframing. Even Motion is a bit archaic. They could take a few lessons from Adobe.


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Michael Spikes
Re: Keyframed movements continue after keyframes end
on May 7, 2013 at 3:32:56 pm

Mark,

I finally watched your entire video. You're totally right--it's another (although dumb as all get out) work around to this problem and a number of other issues with keyframing. This seriously seems like a bug.

Be ready to post it about 1,000 more times until this gets worked out.

Thanks!


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Nikolas Bäurle
Re: Keyframed movements continue after keyframes end
on May 7, 2013 at 12:31:21 am

You need to set the interpolation to linear. Using the keyframe controlls in the viewer you simply click on each keyframe and change it to linear.

using only the inspector X sets the interpolation to linear. You can click and drag to change a value in the inspector, so you can still place images intuitively.

In the viewer or timeline the interpolation depends on the order or changes made to each keyframe. In the viewer each bezier keyframe has handles you can drag to change the amplitude of the movement.

Personally I prefer movement when animating stills for certain projects, especially when stacking images or having stills bounce off of each other, gives it a more organic look.

Nik

"Always look on the bright side of life" - Monty Python



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Michael Spikes
Re: Keyframed movements continue after keyframes end
on May 7, 2013 at 2:31:06 pm

Thanks for all of the replies on this thread. I now have more weirdness in my project (this time complete with screenshots!) After using the "add-edit" trick (I'll try the other things in another project) I get to my last keyframed movement, and now my image will not move on the X axis at all.

In this shot, you can see that my video (on the left) is shrunken down along with a screenshot of a website that the speaker is referring to. Notice the X&Y position.



In this shot, on the second keyframe, the image scales back up to 100% -- but no matter how hard I try to do so, I can't adjust the X position to anything but -251.2, not through dragging the image, dragging the number, or double clicking and typing it in. When I delete the keyframe, and start over again, I can then type in X=0 on the last keyframe, but the image just JUMPS in one frame, instead of over time--although the setting are the same as seen here.



Is this a bug--or am I seriously doing something wrong?


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Nikolas Bäurle
Re: Keyframed movements continue after keyframes end
on May 7, 2013 at 7:46:33 pm

Your keyframe are bezier, trust me this one. No need whatsoever to use any workarounds. I deal with FCPX every day. I tutored one of our editors at Promiflash.tv and the problems we've had animating stills was pretty much exactly like yours.

I've gotten used to it, I agree it's not perfect but not nearly as bad as people make it out to be. It's not at the level of Motion or AFX, but compared to Avid or Legacy it's much better, in my opinion. And there's some cool stuff you can do with keyframes and compound clips in combination with transitions, sometimes workarounds can produce very interesting result.

I'm aware that for high level Keyframing FCPX or Avid or Premiere don't really cut it. Most people I know working FX or design use AfterFX.

I would recommend using the inspector for keyframes, your animations are very basic, using the inspector makes linear keyframes by default.

"Always look on the bright side of life" - Monty Python



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