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Crazy Marathon Export Times

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Alex Ojeda
Crazy Marathon Export Times
on Apr 19, 2013 at 6:27:45 pm

hi,

Is anybody else experiencing a huge outrageous amount of time on export in FCPX?

Im running on FCP 10.0.8 and a brand new Mac Pro OSX 10.8.3 12 Cores 2.4 ghz and 24 RAM.

I transcoded all my footage upon import to ProRes422.

A 4 minutes video clip, with text, footage and a few effects, transitions was giving me over 12 hours of export time. I had to cancel out of that. I tried to use compressor and after waiting for a few hours its finally showed that the export failed.

I try exporting to H264 and Proress422(so it doesnt need to transcode) but having the same issue. Huge amount of time to export, and failed attempts.

I tried with a MacBook pro, and its even worse. Different project, new test project, and it all gives me same unbelievable results.

Something is way off! any ideas what may be causing this or how to solve it?

Many thanks!


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Loren Risker
Re: Crazy Marathon Export Times
on Apr 19, 2013 at 8:59:16 pm

Definitely unusual. Are you using 3rd party effects?

-------------
OutOfFocus.TV - Original series, music videos, and entertainment for your couch.


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Alex Ojeda
Re: Crazy Marathon Export Times
on Apr 19, 2013 at 9:38:00 pm

Hi,

Im not using any 3rd party effects.

The only thing in the timeline that is not as the rest, is that in a 30 second segment I have three generators stacked one above the other. Would this be a problem or it shouldnt?


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Alex Ojeda
Re: Crazy Marathon Export Times
on Apr 19, 2013 at 10:46:46 pm

After several hours of export time, when it reached aprox 45%, export failed with a 2025 quicktime error message. :(

So not only is the outrageous waiting, but something is definetly off.


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Loren Risker
Re: Crazy Marathon Export Times
on Apr 19, 2013 at 10:52:34 pm

stacked generator shouldn't be a problem.

quicktime error 2025 means "staleeditstate" whatever that means.

Have you tried deleting all your render and transcoded files?

-------------
OutOfFocus.TV - Original series, music videos, and entertainment for your couch.


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Alex Ojeda
Re: Crazy Marathon Export Times
on Apr 19, 2013 at 11:04:40 pm

No, I havnt tried that. How do I go and do that? Do I have to do it manually? Where are they located?

What are the consequences? Would it do anything to my project? Or that mainly means I have to re-transcode and rerender?

many thanks in advance!


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T. Payton
Re: Crazy Marathon Export Times
on Apr 19, 2013 at 11:44:51 pm

Something is definitely up. FCP X should share in a few minutes not hours. I typically see 1x or .5x export times.

Delete your render files by choosing File > Delete Event Render Files or File > Delete Project Render Files. I would go ahead and delete them all.

If that doesn't make your render take just a couple of minutes my next thought would be a corrupted clip or title.

Copy some of your clips to a new timeline and try exporting. See if you can isolate the trouble.

Hope this helps.

------
T. Payton
OneCreative, Albuquerque


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Alex Ojeda
Re: Crazy Marathon Export Times
on Apr 20, 2013 at 3:43:13 am

I went ahead and created a new project. Dropped in some generators and footage, totaling about 4 minutes, and it took about 12 minutes to export.

Then I duplicated the troubled project, removed three parts with effects, stacked generators, etc. It had to re-render and that took a few hours, but finally the export took about 16 minutes.

That being said, how can I build a more complex project if it wont export? I need to simply it in order to make it usable, it seems. I dont understand. It wasnt that crazy on effects and stuff. But something that had to do with those three parts was the problem.

I guess Ill have to redo them in a light version in the meanwhile, I need to have it ready by Monday

Many thanks for all your help. Have a great weekend.

Alex


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T. Payton
Re: Crazy Marathon Export Times
on Apr 20, 2013 at 10:49:21 pm

[Alex Ojeda] " 4 minutes, and it took about 12 minutes to export."

That still seems a bit long to me. What video card do you have in your MacPro? What about your drive setup. Where are you storing your media?

[Alex Ojeda] "It had to re-render and that took a few hours"

A few hours to render a 4 minute project? That sounds like a huge amount of time. Even 12 minutes to export sounds too long. I worked on a feature length movie in the fall on an older 2006 MacPro. 1080p prores footage, and every one of the 2000 clips were color corrected, many stabilized, with a cinema widescreen matt over all of it and it took about 3 hrs to render the complete 1.5 hr film.

What kind of effects specifically do you have in use? What kind of titles?

I think something is up with your system, even though it is new.

In contrast I am getting radially different performance on on a small project today. 1080p. Canon 7D footage, not transcoded, Titles throughout, most clips with color corrections, a bunch of CoreMelt Lock & Load on clips. I didn't render before sharing. Total timeline is 6:42. I just exported a 720p Youtube Version and it took a little over 6 minutes to export. I'm on a 27" iMac, 24GB Ram, GeForce 680MX 2048 MB

Why don't you duplicate your project without render files, and then export without rendering. See what kind of times you get.

------
T. Payton
OneCreative, Albuquerque


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Alex Ojeda
Re: Crazy Marathon Export Times
on Apr 21, 2013 at 5:52:19 am

Yes, it is a very long time. Im going insane here, honestly. But ive tried a couple dozen things already from forums, etc.

The video card is a ATI Radeon HD 5870 1024 MB.

I have two HD's in the computer (I ordered it with both), one TB each. One called Main HD (where software, OSX etc resides) and other called VIDEO (where FCP X events, footage, etc.)apps,

No much filters, mostly generators, lower thirds, titles, etc. ive created in Motion 5. And most of them with drop zones, behaviors, keyframes. Very little almost to none filters, because it already happened a while back, as most generators are in 3D, that the filters didnt render as they should in FCPX, so I took them off a while back.

Yes, im sure something is off with my system, and reading your numbers im about to pull my hair, as I had to pay some good money for mine, thinking it would be much faster and help me speed things up.

I already duplicate it and export it, it takes several hours. What can I do? :(


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Dave Gage
Re: Crazy Marathon Export Times
on Apr 21, 2013 at 8:45:05 am

Alex,

Take a look at a recent post I made-
http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/344/19530

Do you ever run DiskWarrior? I had all kinds of problems with an external RAID drive used purely for FCP X media, Events, and Projects. I and OWC thought it was a bad enclosure, but it turned out that either FCP X and/or Carbon Copy Cloner were doing something to the directory structure because the drive got hosed bad a couple of times. Now that I run DiskWarrior every month or so, I've not had an issue. (No, I don't work for the company, but it may be the best $100 I spent last year.) Aside from this problem, I've been fairly trouble free with FCP X since day one.

There are lots of different individual reasons why people have problems like yours, but one can be directory structure corruption, so if you can run DW on it, it may not solve the problem, but it can't hurt. In terms of other possible causes, T. Payton is about as good as they get around here, so he may have some other suggestions to try also.

I wish you luck,
Dave

MBP i7, 16 GB RAM, (Early 2011 model)


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Alex Ojeda
Re: Crazy Marathon Export Times
on Apr 21, 2013 at 4:04:33 pm

Hi, Dave,


No, ive never ran Disk Warrior, I just visited their website. I bought yesterday Digital Rebellion Pro Tools, in the middle of a crisis here trying to solve this issues. So if it helps solves this problem I wouldn't doubt buying it. I read your thread.

Many thanks for the info!


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T. Payton
Re: Crazy Marathon Export Times
on Apr 21, 2013 at 2:38:31 pm

[Alex Ojeda] "Im going insane here, honestly. "

Hopefully we can talk you off the ledge. Your specs look good.

[Alex Ojeda] "No much filters, mostly generators, lower thirds, titles, etc. ive created in Motion 5. And most of them with drop zones, behaviors, keyframes. Very little almost to none filters, because it already happened a while back, as most generators are in 3D, that the filters didnt render as they should in FCPX, so I took them off a while back."

Ahh Motion 5 Generators, those can add HUGELY to your render/exporting times. Especially things like motion blur and 3D shadows. Add drop zones to those and I could see it taking that long. 3D=three times as long and 3 times as much $$.

If you must have that I would strongly recommend testing your export in Motion, and perhaps building elements there. You will have a much better chance of getting export times that you can live with.

I'm not understanding you exactly, but did you mean to say that removing the 3D generators still results in long render times?

Why don't you try this as a test. Put about 4 minutes of h264 video on your timeline, copy and paste some kind of color correction on all clips, and then add a title over all of it. Share that Master File, with ProRes and h264 and see what kind of results you get from that.

------
T. Payton
OneCreative, Albuquerque


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Alex Ojeda
Re: Crazy Marathon Export Times
on Apr 21, 2013 at 4:27:10 pm

Yes, theres quite a few Motion 5 Generators. Some of them with 3d shadows, no motion blur though. I didnt knew that, that they will add so much rendering and exporting time.

Ok. So you mean, adding the images in the Motion project drop zones, and exporting it as a movie, so instead of having the generator in FCPX, I will have the .mov clip?

Ive been doing some tests, and I think youre right about the generators. The export takes about 10 minutes to export 44% (at the beggining of the clip I have a 3d shadows generator), but the it really slows down, and the next 20 percent takes about an hour and a half. In the middle of the clip I have a generator with drop zones, and a motion 5 overlay I made stacked up on top of it.

When I remove the generators it is much faster. Not lightning fast as your numbers, but faster.

Ok. I will do that test and let you know about the results later today.

I dont know if this has anything to do with it, but my footage is AVCDH from a Sony Camera, imported and transcoded to ProRes422 (which took ages to transcode).

Ive noticed that when I export the clip, on the background render window, it says "processing, transcoding". I dont know why it should be transcoding if it already took more than half a day to transcode my imported clips.

One last thing ive noticed, and cant get rid of it. I add an opener generator to the beggining of my timeline, it has 5 footage drop zones and a logo drop zone and 3d shadows. It renders, I preview it, and it looks good. No problem. Then I add next to it a 20 seconds footage clip, and a cross dissolve transition. It renders, i preview it, and now the footage on the drop zone do this weird flash, kind of like a stutter, and the logo shifts its position for a half a second, making it look weird. I though this had to do with the computer not being able to preview it as it should, but I exported, and those behaviors exported as well to the output .mov clip. I changed the transition, and the same happens. I remove transition and clip, and all well again.

Another situation just arose yesterday, its that sometimes, when I publish a generator in Motion 5, it takes a few minutes then an error message shows up: "Media Server Application Unexpectedly Quit". But it does publish the generator.

As I mentioned the computer is brand new, and this is the first project I work with it. I removed and reinstalled Motion, trashed preferences, but it still happening.

Many thanks for your time and help, Payton! I really appreciate it.


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T. Payton
Re: Crazy Marathon Export Times
on Apr 21, 2013 at 11:39:36 pm

Alex,

I don't know how experienced you are with editing and heavy compositing, but generally you are always going to need to plan and evaluate the best workflow for each project. NLE's can create a bunch of cool effects with generators, etc, but overall I have found that it is best to render heavy motion graphics or effects work in a separate compositor, typically After Effects or Motion, or even FCP. If you think of a NLE as a really good "assembler" it might help. Evaluate the elements in your project. Figure out what is the best way to create those elements. If they are truly going to be unchanging, create it in motion and render out the clip. If it is something that you really need to change, like the timing of an effect then go ahead and let that composite happen in the NLE timeline. From what you are saying about your project I think you are spending unnecessary time, not because of a fault of FCP X but making it continually render and re-render parts of your project.

Planing and refining your workflow is going to make all the difference in the world in regards to your efficiency.

If you would like some help evaluating this and your workflow, please feel free to contact me directly. my email is my first creative cow username without the period and space at my company name in my signature .net.

So in answer to some of your other questions:


[Alex Ojeda] "It renders, i preview it, and now the footage on the drop zone do this weird flash, kind of like a stutter, and the logo shifts its position for a half a second, making it look weird."

Try putting the generator populated with your drop zones in a compound clip. Then put the transition on the compound clip. If that doesn't work, just export just the generator range with some handles an then reimport and use that clip as your source.


[Alex Ojeda] "the background render window, it says "processing, transcoding". I don't know why it should be transcoding if it already took more than half a day to transcode my imported clips."

That simply means that it is converting it to the destination codec. Totally normal.

[Alex Ojeda] "my footage is AVCDH from a Sony Camera, imported and transcoded to ProRes422 (which took ages to transcode). "

How much footage did you transcode? ProRes 422 is 6 times the data rate of AVCHD. It is always going to take some time to deal with transcoding that data. Especially since you are working on a non RAID system. (i.e. your MacPro internal drive is getting about 90 MB/sec on average, a decent RAID is 200+ MB/Sec)

------
T. Payton
OneCreative, Albuquerque


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Petter Stahre
Re: Crazy Marathon Export Times
on Apr 22, 2013 at 7:30:19 am

[Alex Ojeda] "Ive been doing some tests, and I think youre right about the generators. The export takes about 10 minutes to export 44% (at the beggining of the clip I have a 3d shadows generator), but the it really slows down, and the next 20 percent takes about an hour and a half. In the middle of the clip I have a generator with drop zones, and a motion 5 overlay I made stacked up on top of it. "

Just to share a similar experience: I've just ended a Motion project which had the exact same problems due to to a particle emitter I used (and 3D). The beginning of the 20 seconds movie was rendered fast (still some 20-30 minutes), the last 5% took hours. And in the end I had to render parts of the project in to two different .mov-files in order not to get a quicktime render error (same happened no matter if Motion or Compressor did the job). The first 95% of the project was rendered with motion blur, but the last 5% I had to render without motion blur since the particle emitter had grown to much. (Luckily I didn't need motion blur on that part.)

As mentioned in the thread, rendering from Motion to a .mov and then import it into FCPX could help a lot if possible.

[Alex Ojeda] "One last thing ive noticed, and cant get rid of it. I add an opener generator to the beggining of my timeline, it has 5 footage drop zones and a logo drop zone and 3d shadows. It renders, I preview it, and it looks good. No problem. Then I add next to it a 20 seconds footage clip, and a cross dissolve transition. It renders, i preview it, and now the footage on the drop zone do this weird flash, kind of like a stutter, and the logo shifts its position for a half a second, making it look weird. I though this had to do with the computer not being able to preview it as it should, but I exported, and those behaviors exported as well to the output .mov clip. I changed the transition, and the same happens. I remove transition and clip, and all well again. "

Sounds a bit like the bug that was corrected in FCPX 10.0.8 and Motion 5.0.7 although I only had the problem with random single frames (not half a second of rendering as you mention). Are you using the latest Motion (5.0.7)? If so, have you tried opening the generators in Motion since the upgrade and saved them again? This is just a thought – I've got no idea if should be needed.


Best,
Petter


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Alex Ojeda
Re: Crazy Marathon Export Times
on Apr 23, 2013 at 8:02:32 am

Hi, Petter,

Many thanks for your input. Yes, it sounds like we come across the same quick sands.

I solved most of my trouble with compound clips, and rendering complex generators in Motion, just like you mention.

I had another error though, in FCPX, on export, that read something like "frame error -1 on frame number 315" and aborted export.

Then another in Motion that read "media server quit unexpectedly" and aborted publishing. I removed Motion, preferences, and reinstall, but it still happened randomly.

Many thanks, again,

best,

alex

Alex Ojeda
http://www.alexojeda.com


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