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Craig Alan
need to convert avc-Intra to apple pro res
on Mar 27, 2013 at 9:46:48 am

In FCP X's event window, highlighted a clip, and opened Inspector. The file was still AVC-Intra 1080i60. My guess is since FCP X can edit in this codec it did not transcode it during import to Apple Pro Res. Under FILE>transcode media - optimize media was grayed out. Was this because it was on the timeline as well as the event window? The only choice was create proxy media.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Bret Williams
Re: need to convert avc-Intra to apple pro res
on Mar 27, 2013 at 11:23:08 am

The inspector is reporting the original. It shod have transcoded it. It doesn't work with avc-intra natively. Just like DVCProHD, you have to transcode.


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Oliver Peters
Re: need to convert avc-Intra to apple pro res
on Mar 27, 2013 at 12:08:36 pm

No, it does work with it natively and will not transcode. FCP has worked natively with AVC-Intra at least since FCP7, if not even earlier. X sees it as optimized, so you can't force a transcode. X will re-wrap it as an MOV file upon ingest, but the essence stays AVC-Intra.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: need to convert avc-Intra to apple pro res
on Mar 27, 2013 at 12:49:42 pm

What Oliver says.

There are certain formats that don't need to be optimized according to fcpx.

XDCam HD 422 is another one.


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Bret Williams
Re: need to convert avc-Intra to apple pro res
on Mar 27, 2013 at 3:01:11 pm

Aha, got it, my bad. I was just confusing what it did. I've used it before, but I guess I was just forced to import it/copy it/rewrap it. IOW it wouldn't just link to the native files.


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Michael W. Towe
Re: need to convert avc-Intra to apple pro res
on Mar 27, 2013 at 3:28:13 pm

Okay, so this is something that I have yet to get straight in my brain. So X can work natively with AVC-Intra? About 90% of what I do is shot AVC-Intra 100. Up until now I have always transcoded the media on ingest to ProRes. Am I just wasting time and disc space by doing this? Is there any disadvantage to not transcoding?

Thanks,

Michael W. Towe
President M2 Digital Post
http://www.m2digitalpost.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: need to convert avc-Intra to apple pro res
on Mar 27, 2013 at 3:31:47 pm

[Michael W. Towe] " So X can work natively with AVC-Intra? "

X will rewrap AVCIntra MXF files to AVCIntra .mov files.

If you want to work with the native MXF files directly, you'll need something like Hamburg Pro Media's ImEx.

With AS-11 coming, AVCIntra is kind of a big deal for broadcast.


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Michael W. Towe
Re: need to convert avc-Intra to apple pro res
on Mar 27, 2013 at 3:40:18 pm

But it will rewrap on the import right? Once imported is there any reason to transcode to ProRes?

Thanks again,

Michael W. Towe
President M2 Digital Post
http://www.m2digitalpost.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: need to convert avc-Intra to apple pro res
on Mar 27, 2013 at 3:41:41 pm

[Michael W. Towe] "Once imported is there any reason to transcode to ProRes?"

Not inside X, but possibly for compatibility with other applications.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Craig Alan
Re: need to convert avc-Intra to apple pro res
on Mar 27, 2013 at 4:18:54 pm

Yes exactly, Oliver. Is there anyway to force FCP X to "optimize" the footage. If not once imported, is there the option to have it do the conversion upon import?

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Oliver Peters
Re: need to convert avc-Intra to apple pro res
on Mar 27, 2013 at 5:38:17 pm

[Craig Alan] "Yes exactly, Oliver. Is there anyway to force FCP X to "optimize" the footage. If not once imported, is there the option to have it do the conversion upon import?"

Not that I'm aware of. It doesn't do this because it IS optimized as far as the software is concerned.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Michael W. Towe
Re: need to convert avc-Intra to apple pro res
on Mar 27, 2013 at 11:17:11 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Not that I'm aware of. It doesn't do this because it IS optimized as far as the software is concerned."

Okay this has me more confused, maybe because I am working with P2. If I import from a P2 card file structure I can tell X to optimize and according to the files it creates in the High Quality Media folder when played in Quicktime player they are ProRes. The files in the Original Media folder are ai5p I am assuming that is AVCIntra. So it looks like it is indeed optimizing.

For those working with AVCIntra from a P2 card, are you optimizing? Are you just importing and working with the original media? Is there a best practice?

I am sort of clinging to a FCP7 method of getting everything into one format prior to editing, but I don't want to be wasting a bunch of time transcoding P2 AVCI footage if there is no gain.

Thanks again folks, this is a very informative thread!

Michael W. Towe
President M2 Digital Post
http://www.m2digitalpost.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: need to convert avc-Intra to apple pro res
on Mar 27, 2013 at 11:54:01 pm

[Michael W. Towe] "If I import from a P2 card file structure I can tell X to optimize and according to the files it creates in the High Quality Media folder when played in Quicktime player they are ProRes. The files in the Original Media folder are ai5p I am assuming that is AVCIntra. So it looks like it is indeed optimizing."

I see what you are saying. I just tested a few AVC-Intra clips. Inside FCP X it says AVC-Intra, whether optimized on import or not. In QT player 7, X and Pro Player the clip in the Transcoded Media - High Quality folder is in fact ProRes. The one that wasn't transcoded on import is only re-wrapped. Neither lets you transcode Optimized Media after it has been imported. So I guess if you want ProRes, you have to pick Optimized at the time of import. I'm not sure where you set the format. I guess it follows the last Project setting. Sounds like this is all a bug.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Michael W. Towe
Re: need to convert avc-Intra to apple pro res
on Mar 28, 2013 at 12:13:21 am

Yep I noticed that too. In the FCPX inspector the footage always shows as AVCI, even if you transcode on import and it is linking to a ProRes file. I think you're spot on with the bug comment.

Michael W. Towe
President M2 Digital Post
http://www.m2digitalpost.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: need to convert avc-Intra to apple pro res
on Mar 28, 2013 at 12:35:06 am

[Michael W. Towe] "Yep I noticed that too. In the FCPX inspector the footage always shows as AVCI, even if you transcode on import and it is linking to a ProRes file. I think you're spot on with the bug comment."

This has happened with FCPX since the beginning.

It shows you the format of the original media, even if it's optimized.

For instance, if you use HDSLR h264 media and optimize it, the inspector shows h264 and not ProRes. I don't know if it's a bug or feature.

AVCIntra 100 is a 10bit full raster, i-frame codec (like ProRes). Optimizing it won't really do anything but take up more disk space.

Jeremy


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Robert Hotz
Re: need to convert avc-Intra to apple pro res
on Feb 25, 2014 at 7:26:01 pm

So Michael, are you understanding this yet? Because I'm seeing this now too and am terribly confused. I shoot P2 AVC-Intra. FCPX ingests and I tell it to "optimize media". It copies the original AVC-Intra file to the location I specify, and converts it to ProRes and places that file in the Project Library "High Quality Media" folder (which I hate, because I don't need both). In FCPX, it shows the file as optimized, but links to the AVCIntra version. If I tell it to optimize, then why wouldn't it be using the ProRes version?

Apple says FCPX will "ALWAYS USE THE OPTIMIZE VERSION IF IT'S AVAILABLE."

I find that in FCPX, I end up with 2 versions of every ingested movie file and this takes up space. It does the same with DSLR. I don't need to keep the original H264, so I have to go in and delete files upon every import. Ingesting in FCPX is very time and space consuming. Is this by design?

Robert Hotz
Marketing Editor/Photographer
ABC10 San Diego


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: need to convert avc-Intra to apple pro res
on Mar 27, 2013 at 6:02:03 pm

[Craig Alan] "Is there anyway to force FCP X to "optimize" the footage. If not once imported, is there the option to have it do the conversion upon import?"

What exactly do you need to do once the footage is imported?


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: need to convert avc-Intra to apple pro res
on Mar 27, 2013 at 6:09:48 pm

Let me rephrase that.

Why do you need to transcode to ProRes? Just curious.


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Craig Alan
Re: need to convert avc-Intra to apple pro res
on Mar 27, 2013 at 9:33:13 pm

I was told that I could create an apple pro res file by optimizing in FCP X then import into compressor and transcode to AIC. Here's why:

I teach video at a school and need to deal with a large number of projects/codec's and levels of ability.

We use Panasonic AG-HPX250/Panasonic AG-HPX170 cams among many other cams.

I used Panasonic's P2 Contents Management Software for MAC users, however, the video plays back with sound but no picture. I read on-line that FCP X being installed creates this disability.

Seems weird. I'll ask panasonic about it.

That said, it does import into FCP X.

Is there a better work flow for this?

A bigger problem is getting the footage into Imovie.

I have sent the clips to compressor and transcoded it to AIC. But it looks degraded in Imovie viewer.
Much worse than other imported files which I understand Imovie converts to AIC.

I need Imovie for beginners and non-film students and other teachers.

I had no problems with Panasonic's P2 Contents Management Software for MAC users and FCP 7 last year.

Now I'm making this somewhat painful transition.

Our final product will also be a variety - from on-line, to SD-DVD (I follow Ken Stone tutorial on compressor for that), Blu-Ray, to using a hard drive to play the files directly out a Mac to a HD projector.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: need to convert avc-Intra to apple pro res
on Mar 27, 2013 at 9:46:47 pm

[Craig Alan] "That said, it does import into FCP X.

Is there a better work flow for this?"


I don't know why you would need a ProRes move to go to Compressor just to get to AIC.

Compressor will read the AVCIntra .mov files just fine.

As far as how AIC looks, I would double check your settings. Perhaps you are mistakenly down converting to SD when you mean to keep the footage in HD.

For P2CMS, The AVCIntra codec is a separate download, perhaps you need to reinstall it.


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Craig Alan
Re: need to convert avc-Intra to apple pro res
on Mar 27, 2013 at 10:14:36 pm

Thanks Jeremy. That FCP X or 7 to compressor workflow was suggested to me. Will Compressor read the original intra files copied over from the P2 card or do I need to copy them via the Panasonic's P2 Contents Management Software for MAC users?

Do you know of a fix for the video play back with sound but no picture when using Contents Management Software?

I'll try again directly in compressor and see what the settings are. But I think your intuition might be correct. That's what it reminded me of - a standard def conversion.

Any particular not obvious settings I should consider?

Also would starting in compressor help with quality into FCP X? The footage looks really good in X but was just wondering.

Craig

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: need to convert avc-Intra to apple pro res
on Mar 27, 2013 at 10:17:37 pm

[Craig Alan] "Thanks Jeremy. That FCP X or 7 to compressor workflow was suggested to me. Will Compressor read the original intra files copied over from the P2 card or do I need to copy them via the Panasonic's P2 Contents Management Software for MAC users? "

Compressor will not read the AVCIntra MXF container, no.

[Craig Alan] "Do you know of a fix for the video play back with sound but no picture when using Contents Management Software?"

I suggested reinstalling the AVCIntra decoder from Panasonic.

[Craig Alan] "Any particular not obvious settings I should consider?"

You need to match the frame size and frame rate of your original footage.

[Craig Alan] "Also would starting in compressor help with quality into FCP X? The footage looks really good in X but was just wondering. "

No, the rewrapping of footage in FCPX is the same quality as your original footage.

Jeremy


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Craig Alan
Re: need to convert avc-Intra to apple pro res
on Mar 27, 2013 at 10:23:35 pm

Thanks so much Jeremy,

So I gather FCP X does not break the P2 Contents Management Software?

Maybe the version of QT on my computer? But I'll try to re-download.

Are there any camera recording choices you would recommend with either of these editing codec's in mind? Would 1080 P be better for example with AIC?

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: need to convert avc-Intra to apple pro res
on Mar 27, 2013 at 10:56:29 pm

[Craig Alan] "So I gather FCP X does not break the P2 Contents Management Software?"

Not that I know of. It's the first I've heard of it.

What OS are you running? What has changed on the system since the last time you opened P2CMS?

[Craig Alan] "Are there any camera recording choices you would recommend with either of these editing codec's in mind? Would 1080 P be better for example with AIC?"

I prefer to work with progressive images, in general. I am not sure that 1080p would be "better", necessarily, for AIC, as better is subjective for whatever your needs might require.

Jeremy


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Zach Smith
Re: need to convert avc-Intra to apple pro res
on Dec 7, 2015 at 5:44:04 pm

This thread seems to be similar to the issue I am facing while importing AVC-100/60i footage into FCPX.

In the import window in FCPX I am utilizing the option to make selections from the clips on the P2 so I am not importing unwanted or unusable footage. I am not choosing to optimize the footage.

When I import and view my selections in FCPX everything looks correct but if I right click on one of those clips and choose reveal in finder. The clip that was saved in the original media folder doesn't match what's in FCPX.

I don't understand why I would have the option to just import what I want from a clip if FCPX isn't actually going to just save that portion of the clip. I am also confused why my selections are honored in the FCPX viewer but not in the original media folder.

Any insight would be much appreciated. Thanks!


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Michael W. Towe
Re: need to convert avc-Intra to apple pro res
on Mar 27, 2013 at 11:03:57 pm

Hey Craig,

The solution to the no picture issue in P2CMS is that you need the AVC-Intra decoder installed. You can find it here. Link is at the bottom of the page

https://eww.pass.panasonic.co.jp/pro-av/support/content/download/EN/ep2main...

As for camera recording choices that will most likely get dictated by your end deliverable. If I am doing a corporate thing for the web I either shoot 1080p AVCI 100 or 720P ACVI 100. If it's event coverage that has very long roll times I might go to 720p AVCI 50. I also do a fair amount of work for the local NBC affiliate who's deliverable is 1080i. For them I shoot and post AVCI 100 1080p and then nest the final edit into a 1080i timeline. I try to stay progressive when at all possible through post, makes life so much easier.

Mike

Michael W. Towe
President M2 Digital Post
http://www.m2digitalpost.com


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Craig Alan
Re: need to convert avc-Intra to apple pro res
on Mar 28, 2013 at 4:00:26 am

Thanks Michael and Jeremy,

I'll download AVC-Intra decoder and the user manual from that link. Not had really good luck with Panasonic user manuals but maybe it will help.

So when I want to get the P2 files into compressor from the P2CMS database, how is this done? I've used compressor after exporting self contained QT files, drag and drop, and now I've used it by sending it to compressor from FCP X. Whoosh, done for you!

One more thing - if inspector in FCP X is saying that a file is still in the original P2 codec even though its been transcoded to pro res, what software can I use to tell me what I really have? My guess is it's neither a bug nor a feature - it's simply that the original codec was a piece of meta data that is attached to that clip. Not so much a bug but certainly immature software. (just a guess) Best of both worlds would be AVC-Intra 1080i60 rewrapped as ai5p(?) and then transcoded to pro res 422. That would be truly informative and help you develop better workflows or at least understand the one in front of you.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Michael W. Towe
Re: need to convert avc-Intra to apple pro res
on Mar 29, 2013 at 3:37:25 am

[Craig Alan] "So when I want to get the P2 files into compressor from the P2CMS database, how is this done? I've used compressor after exporting self contained QT files, drag and drop, and now I've used it by sending it to compressor from FCP X. Whoosh, done for you!"

Hey Craig,

Not sure why you would need to go to Compressor from P2CMS to create ProRes files, that is an extra unnecessary step. Here's my workflow with P2 into X.

1 - ShotPut Pro to copy P2 cards to two portable drives.
2- Import into X from portable drive telling X to optimize footage (This will transcode to ProRes however the inspector in X will still show the file as ACVI or ai5p. You can check the files in Quicktime Player by opening them and than looking at the the inspector (cmnd+I) it will show them as indeed ProRes 422)
3 - Edit away.

The only thing I use P2CMS for is to check playback of copied files once ShotPut Pro is done copying from the cards.

Michael W. Towe
President M2 Digital Post
http://www.m2digitalpost.com


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Craig Alan
Re: need to convert avc-Intra to apple pro res
on Mar 29, 2013 at 4:54:58 am

Thanks Michael,
What is the advantage of shotput pro over CMS? I'm not having problems getting the P2 footage into FCP X. I need compressor to transcode to AIC for Imovie. Now I can send the files from FCPX optimized or not into compressor but then its going through 2 transcodes.

Another question: By default the AG-HPX250 was set on 1080-59.94i/60i. Do you know if that is a frame rate of 60? I'm going to switch to 1080-59.94i 30PN but I've been experimenting with transcoding with footage shot in 60i. So I was wondering what the right settings were in compressor to match the original footage.

I'll try QT get info to see what it says. I don't know what FCP X was set at upon import.

Why do you prefer pro res over AVCintra?

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Michael W. Towe
Re: need to convert avc-Intra to apple pro res
on Mar 29, 2013 at 3:42:41 pm

Hi Craig,

I use SotPut Pro since it will allow me to copy to multiple drives at the same time. Additionally it will verify the copies to make sure they were done correctly. If you do go to ShotPut make sure it is the most current release, I believe it's Ver.5. Previous versions had issues with Lion and Mountain Lion where the copy speeds were unbearably slow. The latest version has the speed back down to about a gig per minute.

To answer your question on 1080-59.94i/60i... That frame rate is actually 30 or 29.97. The 60i is referring to the 60 interlaced fields, not frames, per second. The 30PN you are shooting is 30 or 29.97 frames per second but is shooting progressive frames not interlaced. I would suggest staying with the 30PN as progressive is so much easier in post. If you have someone that requires a 60i master then just drop your final edit into a 60i timeline/project and render it out. I do this all the time for the local NBC folks who want 60i

As for ProRes over ACVIntra... To be honest this is a bit of a carry over from FCP7 for me. I had a habit of getting everything into ProRes before editing. The knowledge I have gained from this thread has me rethinking that workflow. On my next project I think I will skip the transcode in X and just work in the AVCIntra format. If it works fine I'll go that route and save the time of transcoding/optimizing.

Lastly for your need to go to compressor to get to AIC, I am afraid I can't be of any help to you there. Not having used iMovie and having to do that in the past I am ignorant of the process of getting the P2 files into compressor.

Michael W. Towe
President M2 Digital Post
http://www.m2digitalpost.com


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Craig Alan
Re: need to convert avc-Intra to apple pro res
on Mar 29, 2013 at 4:49:18 pm

Thanks Michael.

It's strange that compressor can't read P2 but if I set FCP X to not transcode to pro res and then send to compressor its pretty close. No matter what it seems AIC is pretty lossy. Oh well, by next year we'll skip Imovie and just have students who know FCP X help the newbies.

Yeah I'm going to go with 30PN. I used 30P last year when we started with the AG-HPX170PJ. The footage looked great. We used FCP 7 exclusively and I felt pretty comfortable with the work flow. I like the AG-HPX250PJ even better but started playing with it on the default settings which was 60i.

The two things I wanted with the 170 were a more powerful lens and three rings instead of two for zoom, focus and aperture. They added both of these plus a better codec. Not sure about 3MOS vs 3CCD. I kinda like ccd more.

Not sure how I feel about FCP X but need to get off the fence and learn it better. I will say I like the "browser" part of the program. Just a better interface for seeing your import and playing around with it. The timeline part will take some getting used to. I don't mind having a magnetic option and don't mind having it as the default with the option to turn it off. Not having tracks is a huge change and for me a lot less intuitive.

Thanks for your help. I can see where shotput could come in handy when you are ingesting tons of stuff and need backups. There is a new app on Panasonic's site that is a P2 for sale reader of some sort. Not sure what it does exactly.

P2 Viewer Plus
This new software supports P2 file viewing, copying and metadata editing for the latest Windows and Mac operating systems.

http://www.panasonic.com/business/provideo/support/software.asp

scroll down to last download

Maybe a shotgun alternative or vice versa?

Craig

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Steven Allen
Re: need to convert avc-Intra to apple pro res
on Jan 23, 2016 at 9:36:15 pm

If someone would be so kind....
I am trying to export from FCPX, I get half way thru and it freezes. Usually it is about and hour single and multi camera edit, shot from Panasonic cameras. In FCPX it says the clips are AVC-Intra (1080/60). I have used FCP 7 for along time and have gotten used to MAC & FCP always working, so I am a little dumb right now. Can anyone please tell me, step by step if possible, how to remedy this.
My thanks...steve


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: need to convert avc-Intra to apple pro res
on Jan 24, 2016 at 2:10:33 am

What is happening in the timeline about half way through?


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Steven Allen
Re: need to convert avc-Intra to apple pro res
on Jan 24, 2016 at 10:09:48 pm

Nothing different. I have tried this several times and it may stop at different places. One time at 6%.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: need to convert avc-Intra to apple pro res
on Jan 25, 2016 at 1:04:19 am

Are you exporting to a hard drive? Does it have enough free space? Can you try exporting to a different hard drive?

If that doesn't work, first thing to do is trash your cache and try again.

If that doesn't work, try trashing prefs and try again.


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