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Is anyone rendering 23.976 footage transcoded or rewrapped with FCPX out of Color? Xto7 7toX

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Jeremy Garchow
Is anyone rendering 23.976 footage transcoded or rewrapped with FCPX out of Color? Xto7 7toX
on Mar 21, 2013 at 6:06:31 pm

I am hitting a weird bug.

All footage is 23.98 all the way through the pipeline until you render out of Color.

All graded files then show up as 24.0 in FCP7.

If I then send to FCPX (I am using Intelligent Assistance 7toX and Xto7), footage is imported as a still frame. The files are tagged as 23.98 in FCPX.

The same footage round tripped through Resolve does not have this problem.

If footage is logged and transferred with FCP7 first, there is no problem.

Once footage is over to X and I media manage to new ProRes files, grade, and send back to X, there is no problem.

If I conform all graded movs to 23.98 before sending to FCPX, there is no problem.

Using Resolve to go from X to 7 to Color to FCP7 to X (all via XML/FCPXML) results in the same problem, files from Color end up as 24.0 and the footage imports as a still frame.

I guess I should take some aspirin.

I have tried footage from C300, fs700, AF100, P2 and the problem surfaces.

Arri Alexa, footage does not have this problem.

Since other applications seems to have no problem with 23.976 files generated from FCPX, there must be something weird with Color.

Can't wait till it gets fixed. ;)

Jeremy


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Oliver Peters
Re: Is anyone rendering 23.976 footage transcoded or rewrapped with FCPX out of Color? Xto7 7toX
on Mar 21, 2013 at 6:25:48 pm

Have you made sure the timebase is set to 23.98 in the Color project?

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Is anyone rendering 23.976 footage transcoded or rewrapped with FCPX out of Color? Xto7 7toX
on Mar 21, 2013 at 6:29:43 pm

Everything is 23.98 until it gets sent back from Color.

The sequence sent back from Color is 23.98, it's just the media that's 24.0


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Oliver Peters
Re: Is anyone rendering 23.976 footage transcoded or rewrapped with FCPX out of Color? Xto7 7toX
on Mar 21, 2013 at 6:42:50 pm

Does QT7 ID the rendered files at 24fps? Are these 1920 x 1080 or something else?

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Is anyone rendering 23.976 footage transcoded or rewrapped with FCPX out of Color? Xto7 7toX
on Mar 21, 2013 at 6:54:34 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Does QT7 ID the rendered files at 24fps?"

The color renders are identified as 24.0 in QT and QT Edit, as well as FCP7, yes.

Everything is 23.98 before the Color render. It is only the Color generated media that is 24.0

If the media is imported via FCPXML in to FCPX, the media shows up as 23.98.

If I import a graded clip sans XML to FCPX, it shows up as 24.0

[Oliver Peters] "Are these 1920 x 1080 or something else?"

I've tried 1920x1080, 1280x720, and 960x720.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Is anyone rendering 23.976 footage transcoded or rewrapped with FCPX out of Color? Xto7 7toX
on Mar 21, 2013 at 6:58:13 pm

Weird. I have not noticed that, but it's been awhile since I've done any 23.98 grading in Color. I do know that some of the round-tripping in FC Studio has been a bit wonky for awhile now. Seems like little things are breaking. I guess try trashing prefs. Have you tried media directly - just from FCP 7 only or direct into Color?

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Is anyone rendering 23.976 footage transcoded or rewrapped with FCPX out of Color? Xto7 7toX
on Mar 21, 2013 at 7:20:41 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Weird. I have not noticed that, but it's been awhile since I've done any 23.98 grading in Color. I do know that some of the round-tripping in FC Studio has been a bit wonky for awhile now. Seems like little things are breaking. I guess try trashing prefs. Have you tried media directly - just from FCP 7 only or direct into Color?"

I tried trashing prefs, and tried it on other machines, same repeatable problems. It seems like a bug to me.

This only happens with media that is rewrapped or transcoded with FCPX.

I guess I have to face the fact that Color is truly dead. :(

RIP


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Oliver Peters
Re: Is anyone rendering 23.976 footage transcoded or rewrapped with FCPX out of Color? Xto7 7toX
on Mar 21, 2013 at 7:32:22 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "This only happens with media that is rewrapped or transcoded with FCPX"

I see. Something I NEVER do. I hate their transcode/rewrap/ingest from camera. Still use FCP 7 L&T when needed. It's simply better.

[Jeremy Garchow] "I guess I have to face the fact that Color is truly dead. :("

Well, sort of. As you just pointed out, it appears to be an FCP X bug.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Is anyone rendering 23.976 footage transcoded or rewrapped with FCPX out of Color? Xto7 7toX
on Mar 21, 2013 at 8:08:02 pm

Yes, it starts in fcpx, but the exact same footage round trips from Resolve with no problem, and every other program I have used footage from X in has recognized 23.976 just fine.

I realize that the rewrapped files X creates aren't quite what fcp7 used to make, but at some point the tie is going to need to be cut from 7.

I guess for me, it will be earlier than I expected.

Have you tried EDL-X to SpeedGrade? That's my next venture.


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Shane Ross
Re: Is anyone rendering 23.976 footage transcoded or rewrapped with FCPX out of Color? Xto7 7toX
on Mar 21, 2013 at 10:10:35 pm

The answer is staggeringly simple...

Don't use Color if you ingest/transcode with FCX. If Resolve works, use Resolve. Oh, but that means that you need a BMD card, that your great AJA cards won't work.

The biggest kick I get out of this conversation is how much you all still rely on FCS to do stuff. You don't just use FCX. You keep going back to FCS apps to do what you need to do when you want it done right. This seems to indicate there is a huge hole in FCX that hasn't been patched. Stuff that you need, anyway.

Do you ever see a time when you won't have FCS involved in the process?

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Is anyone rendering 23.976 footage transcoded or rewrapped with FCPX out of Color? Xto7 7toX
on Mar 21, 2013 at 10:33:19 pm

[Shane Ross] "Oh, but that means that you need a BMD card, that your great AJA cards won't work. "

Bingo, otherwise I'd just use Resolve as the interchange works.

[Shane Ross] "The biggest kick I get out of this conversation is how much you all still rely on FCS to do stuff. You don't just use FCX. You keep going back to FCS apps to do what you need to do when you want it done right. This seems to indicate there is a huge hole in FCX that hasn't been patched. Stuff that you need, anyway. "

Actually, FCPX works well if you use it as intended. The only part that doesn't work in this whole scenario is the dead app Color, and of course, the fact that I don't have a Decklink card. Everything else works.

[Shane Ross] "Do you ever see a time when you won't have FCS involved in the process?"

Sooner rather than later, but that means I have to get some Blackmagic gear... If I had Thunderbolt on all my machines, it would be a no brainer.

If Speedgrade had video out, I'd try that, too. It would be the same process but using Pr for the XML import and EDL to Speedgrade for the XML flip, or EDL-X straight to Speedgrade. Interchange isn't that uncommon between disparate applications and Xto7, 7toX seem to be working fairly well.

Certainly, it's no FCP7 to Color round trip, but life moves on.

Color correction within FCPX is pretty capable, I just needed some finer details with this particular project that were more easily done in a grading application because Canon's "Log" color space is really funky.

I media managed the clips to ProRes and kept working.

The spots will be broadcast starting Saturday. If you watch golf at all, you'll see them. :)

Jeremy


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David Camacho
Re: Is anyone rendering 23.976 footage transcoded or rewrapped with FCPX out of Color? Xto7 7toX
on Mar 21, 2013 at 10:59:46 pm

I just finished a project FCP7 to color, 23.98 prores HQ recorder on a Samurai and all of my render files round tripped from color came back 24fps...

Opened new project in color and just imported single clip from
Samurai recorded files and color sees it as 24fps, Quicktime sees it as 23.98.

Exported same clip from FCP same as source a Color sees it as 23.98.

What is going on ????



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Shane Ross
Re: Is anyone rendering 23.976 footage transcoded or rewrapped with FCPX out of Color? Xto7 7toX
on Mar 21, 2013 at 11:31:51 pm

[David Camacho] "What is going on ????"

Color hates samurai. It likes ninjas.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Is anyone rendering 23.976 footage transcoded or rewrapped with FCPX out of Color? Xto7 7toX
on Mar 22, 2013 at 12:41:23 am

David-

Did you touch fcpx at all?


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Oliver Peters
Re: Is anyone rendering 23.976 footage transcoded or rewrapped with FCPX out of Color? Xto7 7toX
on Mar 21, 2013 at 10:49:53 pm

[Shane Ross] "The biggest kick I get out of this conversation is how much you all still rely on FCS to do stuff. You don't just use FCX."

I think you need to view it differently. FCP X at the moment is an editing platform that other things can work with. It's not an all-in-one application and in this go-around, I don't believe Apple intends to do that any longer. FCP X is a good cutting environment for those who adapt to its style, but for advanced workflows you've got to go outside of it. That can be Resolve or Smoke or other apps - or it can be what you already own - FCS.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Shane Ross
Re: Is anyone rendering 23.976 footage transcoded or rewrapped with FCPX out of Color? Xto7 7toX
on Mar 21, 2013 at 10:52:39 pm

[Oliver Peters] " FCP X is a good cutting environment for those who adapt to its style,"

I know...like Bill Davis. It's you two, that work like I work, have needs like my needs...that can't seem to stick to only FCX.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Oliver Peters
Re: Is anyone rendering 23.976 footage transcoded or rewrapped with FCPX out of Color? Xto7 7toX
on Mar 21, 2013 at 10:58:47 pm

[Shane Ross] "It's you two, that work like I work, have needs like my needs...that can't seem to stick to only FCX."

Well, for me, there are parts of X I like and parts I still hate. Since I freelance, I currently am asked to use most of the various NLEs. When it comes to sending stuff out-of-house for mixes or grading, there are a number of ways to make it work if you cut in X. Often the easiest is to get it to/from FCP 7 and then go from there. The last couple of jobs I've cut were conformed/"onlined" in FCP 7 ;-)

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: Is anyone rendering 23.976 footage transcoded or rewrapped with FCPX out of Color? Xto7 7toX
on Mar 22, 2013 at 12:42:38 am

I just ran some tests. I think it's your day for voodoo, Jeremy. I imported 3 files directly into Color (Alexa, BMCC ProResHQ, F3 recorded on KiPro). All 1080p/23.98. I rendered in Color, imported rendered clips into FCP 7 and then exported to X via XML (7toX). In all cases (plus QT 7) the files and sequences were ID'ed as 23.98fps. Go figure.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Is anyone rendering 23.976 footage transcoded or rewrapped with FCPX out of Color? Xto7 7toX
on Mar 22, 2013 at 12:52:39 am

As I said, all clips NOT transcoded with X worked fine.

Arri Alexa, log and transferred clips from fcp7, etc.

It was clips that were transcoded or wrapped in X that are the problem.

Try something like P2, AVCHD, or XDCam/C300 media.

I can try and send you some tomorrow if you don't have any on hand.

If it is voodoo on my system, at least I can chase it.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Is anyone rendering 23.976 footage transcoded or rewrapped with FCPX out of Color? Xto7 7toX
on Mar 22, 2013 at 1:09:37 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "As I said, all clips NOT transcoded with X worked fine. "

OK, so we are back to what I said in the first place. It's an FCP X bug, not a Color problem. Or it's in Xto7. The issue is likely a mis-tagging of frame rate metadata. At various points Apple has frequently mislabeled 23.98 as 24 (but meaning 23.98). It could be there's an error in the XML translation due to that. Also there are metadata differences between how Apple writes the tags for its 23.98 and how others write 23.976.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Is anyone rendering 23.976 footage transcoded or rewrapped with FCPX out of Color? Xto7 7toX
on Mar 22, 2013 at 1:56:13 am

[Oliver Peters] "OK, so we are back to what I said in the first place. It's an FCP X bug, not a Color problem. Or it's in Xto7. The issue is likely a mis-tagging of frame rate metadata. At various points Apple has frequently mislabeled 23.98 as 24 (but meaning 23.98). It could be there's an error in the XML translation due to that. Also there are metadata differences between how Apple writes the tags for its 23.98 and how others write 23.976."

But only after rendering from Color, i.e, this is brand new media generated in Color.

All other media in every where points to 23.98, Color reads 23.98, then renders 24.0.

I'll ask Intelligent Assistance tomorrow, but the translation seems good.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Is anyone rendering 23.976 footage transcoded or rewrapped with FCPX out of Color? Xto7 7toX
on Mar 22, 2013 at 3:53:23 pm

I am far from an XML master, but using one clip and sending it through the pipeline, everything points to 23.98, even the Color XML.

It's just the media that's rendered 24. This seems like a bug.

Jeremy


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Oliver Peters
Re: Is anyone rendering 23.976 footage transcoded or rewrapped with FCPX out of Color? Xto7 7toX
on Mar 22, 2013 at 4:12:02 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "I am far from an XML master, but using one clip and sending it through the pipeline, everything points to 23.98, even the Color XML.
"


XMLs often embed funky information that comes up wrong in the receiving application. Don't assume that the XML itself isn't messing up the process. For example, I've had conversions from FCP X to FCP 7 via Xto7 do completely bizarre things to audio clips on the FCP 7 timeline, as well as mess up the total timeline itself.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Is anyone rendering 23.976 footage transcoded or rewrapped with FCPX out of Color? Xto7 7toX
on Mar 22, 2013 at 4:23:56 pm

[Oliver Peters] "For example, I've had conversions from FCP X to FCP 7 via Xto7 do completely bizarre things to audio clips on the FCP 7 timeline, as well as mess up the total timeline itself."

I have with Synchronized Clips as well, and if you did the math, you could see that the error is in the XML.

That's not so in this case.

I can look and see the video rate of the clips in both the FCPXML and the XML, and they all point to 23.98.

The media file itself is 24.0 rendered from Color.

There is something about the original media files that Color does not like and since Color is dead and won't be updated to handle the new media files, I can make media that Color does like via FCP7s media manager, or simply skip Color.

At least that's what I seem to be gathering by looking at it.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Is anyone rendering 23.976 footage transcoded or rewrapped with FCPX out of Color? Xto7 7toX
on Mar 22, 2013 at 12:49:21 am

[Shane Ross] " It's you two, that work like I work, have needs like my needs...that can't seem to stick to only FCX."

Did you stick with only fcp7?

I didn't.

With X, X2Pro worked great for me to get AAFs to ProTools.

If I had a Blackmagic card, the round trip to resolve would have been fairly painless.

Even needing to go to an XML based system (FCS 3 or Pr) is OK for timeline work.

Avid? I haven't tried getting to it, but I imagine some combo of Xto7toX and Automatic Duck.

If a person likes fcpx (which I like a lot of it) the interchange really isn't 100% terrible or impossible.

I find interchange in cs6 to be more difficult (not including dynamic link to Ae).

Jeremy


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David Camacho
Re: Is anyone rendering 23.976 footage transcoded or rewrapped with FCPX out of Color? Xto7 7toX
on Mar 22, 2013 at 4:15:59 pm

I believe it is a color problem...I was reading this thread and it made me go back and check a project I had just finished round tripping (never touched FCPX). Color ID'd prores files as 24fps even though project was
23.98fps

But the weirdest thing is after Media Managing the project I went to check those files and some AE renders that never went to color are now flagged at 24fps...



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Is anyone rendering 23.976 footage transcoded or rewrapped with FCPX out of Color? Xto7 7toX
on Mar 22, 2013 at 4:26:36 pm

[David Camacho] "I believe it is a color problem...I was reading this thread and it made me go back and check a project I had just finished round tripping (never touched FCPX). Color ID'd prores files as 24fps even though project was
23.98fps

But the weirdest thing is after Media Managing the project I went to check those files and some AE renders that never went to color are now flagged at 24fps..."


Thanks so much for this information, David.

It leads me to believe that this isn't entirely an FCPX problem, but something with Color/FCS3.

Jeremy


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Oliver Peters
Re: Is anyone rendering 23.976 footage transcoded or rewrapped with FCPX out of Color? Xto7 7toX
on Mar 22, 2013 at 6:47:56 pm

Another set of tests.

Test 1

Ingest C300 clip into FCP X (this rewraps, codec stays native)
Export FCPXML - Xto7 - import into FCP 7
Send to Color, render, send to FCP 7
Export XML - 7toX - import into FCP X

In all cases, everything shows up as 23.98 EXCEPT when the Color-rendered file is played in a media player, like QT 7 or QT X. Only there does it show as 24.0 fps.

Test 2

Ingest the same C300 file into FCP 7 using Log and Transfer (transcodes to ProRes)
Send to Color, render, send to FCP 7
Export XML - 7toX - import into FCP X

In all cases, everything shows up as 23.98 INCLUDING when the Color rendered file is played in a media player, like QT 7 or QT X.

Test 3

Ingest the same C300 file into FCP 7 using Log and Transfer (rewrap only, codec stays native)
Send to Color, render, send to FCP 7
Export XML - 7toX - import into FCP X

In all cases, everything shows up as 23.98 INCLUDING when the Color rendered file is played in a media player, like QT 7 or QT X.

I'm still leaning to a bug in FCP X ingest from camera. My guess is something about the metadata.
The other possibility is this has something to do with the Canon codec itself in X.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: Is anyone rendering 23.976 footage transcoded or rewrapped with FCPX out of Color? Xto7 7toX
on Mar 22, 2013 at 7:07:38 pm

FWIW - have you trashed your Color prefs?

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Is anyone rendering 23.976 footage transcoded or rewrapped with FCPX out of Color? Xto7 7toX
on Mar 22, 2013 at 7:20:00 pm

Thank you, Oliver, for going through that test. This is exactly what I am seeing.

David says he is seeing this bug in Color round trips from After Effects renders that have never touched FCPX.

I don't think the problem lies with FCPX itself, but more from how these new media files are getting created. Color, it seems, can't decipher the new media files.

Color prefs have been trashed and I have tested on multiple machines (different users/prefs/etc).

Jeremy


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Oliver Peters
Re: Is anyone rendering 23.976 footage transcoded or rewrapped with FCPX out of Color? Xto7 7toX
on Mar 22, 2013 at 7:33:49 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "David says he is seeing this bug in Color round trips from After Effects renders that have never touched FCPX."

Yes. Not sure why. I do know that Adobe expresses the video integer (24 versus 23.976 or 30 versus 29.97) as a different fraction format than does Apple. Could be a clue to why there's an issue. I have also imported 23.98 files (from other exports) into FCP X and X sees them as needing rendering, while FCP 7 does not. No clue why, but I have more faith in Color and FCP 7 than I do in X.

Right now all the PAL folks are rolling on the floor laughing at us ;-)

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Is anyone rendering 23.976 footage transcoded or rewrapped with FCPX out of Color? Xto7 7toX
on Mar 22, 2013 at 7:38:05 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Right now all the PAL folks are rolling on the floor laughing at us ;-)"

No doubt!

[Oliver Peters] "I have also imported 23.98 files (from other exports) into FCP X and X sees them as needing rendering, while FCP 7 does not. No clue why, but I have more faith in Color and FCP 7 than I do in X."

If you do an 7toX transfer of your (from Color) timeline, everything will show up as 23.98 in FCPX, timeline, compound, clip, etc.

But, if you import those clips to FCPX without an XML, they do show up as 24.0

There's something wrong in Whoville.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Is anyone rendering 23.976 footage transcoded or rewrapped with FCPX out of Color? Xto7 7toX
on Mar 22, 2013 at 7:44:08 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "But, if you import those clips to FCPX without an XML, they do show up as 24.0"

Yes. I just noticed, that Smoke sees the 24.0 file as in fact 24.0, because it throws up a mismatched frame rate warning. I presume in the Color-to-FCP7 return roundtrip it conforms the file based on the project frame rate of 23.98. The file itself is 24.0. But so far I have only hit that when I ingested (rewrapped) through FCP X and Sent to Color.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: Is anyone rendering 23.976 footage transcoded or rewrapped with FCPX out of Color? Xto7 7toX
on Mar 22, 2013 at 7:49:54 pm

[Oliver Peters] "But so far I have only hit that when I ingested (rewrapped) through FCP X and Sent to Color."

Actually, I just now also directly imported the rewrapped C300 file into Color. This was straight from the Final Cut Events - Event - Original Media folder. This is only an ingest into X, which rewrapped the file as MOV. No other processes. Color ID'ed the file as 24.0 fps. That points back to the FCP X ingest process or the codec or a flaw in AV Foundation.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: Is anyone rendering 23.976 footage transcoded or rewrapped with FCPX out of Color? Xto7 7toX
on Mar 22, 2013 at 8:50:06 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Yes. I just noticed, that Smoke sees the 24.0 file as in fact 24.0"

EDIT: My bad. I had the wrong file in Smoke. So far only Color is seeing the rewrapped FCP X file as 24.0.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Is anyone rendering 23.976 footage transcoded or rewrapped with FCPX out of Color? Xto7 7toX
on Mar 22, 2013 at 10:23:07 pm

[Oliver Peters] "EDIT: My bad. I had the wrong file in Smoke. So far only Color is seeing the rewrapped FCP X file as 24.0."

Yep.

Color is busted.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Is anyone rendering 23.976 footage transcoded or rewrapped with FCPX out of Color? Xto7 7toX
on Mar 22, 2013 at 11:17:13 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Color is busted."

Sorry, that's way too simplistic of an answer. Note the info below. Same C300 file imported into FCP X and FCP 7. Then those two QTs brought into Premiere. You'll see two interesting issues. The start TC is wrong in the FCP X clip, although it's right in FCP X. Also the expression of the video integer is different in the two. I believe that's the core problem in both issues (Color and TC error).

Now, it's quite possible that both are absolutely correct and it's a change in how this info is written into QT files. In that case, Color might simply be wrong, because it hasn't been updated to read a different variant of this expression. The FCP X reading is actually more accurate because it takes the decimals out farther. The FCP 7 version is rounded off to 23.976.


Imported into FCP X. Rewrapped to MOV. Note: start TC in Premiere is incorrect, but correct in FCP X.

QuickTime Details:
Movie contains 1 video track(s), 1 audio track(s) and 1 timecode track(s).

Video:
There are 1068 frames with a duration of 1001/24000ths.

Video track 1:
Duration is 0:00:44:13
Average frame rate is 23.98 fps



Imported into FCP 7 via Log & Transfer. Rewrapped to MOV. Note: start TC in Premiere is correct.

QuickTime Details:
Movie contains 1 video track(s), 2 audio track(s) and 1 timecode track(s).

Video:
There are 1068 frames with a duration of 125/2997ths.

Video track 1:
Duration is 0:00:44:13
Average frame rate is 23.98 fps


- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Is anyone rendering 23.976 footage transcoded or rewrapped with FCPX out of Color? Xto7 7toX
on Mar 23, 2013 at 1:43:32 am

[Oliver Peters] "Sorry, that's way too simplistic of an answer. "

Color not working with FCPX media is about is simple as it needs to be for me.

I don't expect a fix.

David, on the other hand, shouldn't have the same issues, yet he does, and from two different devices and it doesn't involve FCPX at all.

Therefore, not using Color will solve all of these issues. :)

I am sure this has to do with 32bit QT vs 64 bit AVFoundation when it comes down to it.

Jeremy


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Oliver Peters
Re: Is anyone rendering 23.976 footage transcoded or rewrapped with FCPX out of Color? Xto7 7toX
on Mar 23, 2013 at 2:15:32 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "David, on the other hand, shouldn't have the same issues, yet he does, and from two different devices and it doesn't involve FCPX at all."

Because AE rendered files have the same math issues.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Andreas Kiel
Re: Is anyone rendering 23.976 footage transcoded or rewrapped with FCPX out of Color? Xto7 7toX
on Mar 23, 2013 at 2:59:32 pm

[Oliver]Right now all the PAL folks are rolling on the floor laughing at us ;-)
Yes we do. :)

The problem seems to be the TC (QT32,QT64 or AV foundation stuff)
FCPX doesn't like TC and doesn't handle it neither correctly nor flexible (like FCP mostly did using QT). Next problem is relinking -- FCPX is very picky with that.

Jeremy did send me some files.
The XMLs are okay.
The source is somehow correctly flagged as 23.976, but a bit different from the way it was done in the old QT days.
That might be the reason why Color does interpret/write the wrong TC track.

Using Cinema Tools as test app, you can't conform FCPX ingested files, while you can do that with files from Color or AE or whatever.

- Andreas

Spherico
http://www.spherico.com/filmtools

"He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby
become a monster. And if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will
also gaze into thee." - Friedrich Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil


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Oliver Peters
Re: Is anyone rendering 23.976 footage transcoded or rewrapped with FCPX out of Color? Xto7 7toX
on Mar 23, 2013 at 3:05:10 pm

[Andreas Kiel] "The problem seems to be the TC (QT32,QT64 or AV foundation stuff)
FCPX doesn't like TC and doesn't handle it neither correctly nor flexible (like FCP mostly did using QT). Next problem is relinking -- FCPX is very picky with that."


I was thinking the same. Thanks.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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David Camacho
Re: Is anyone rendering 23.976 footage transcoded or rewrapped with FCPX out of Color? Xto7 7toX
on Mar 23, 2013 at 7:06:17 pm

I am a freelancer and as such I cannot always choose the tools I use..
The only solution I have found to Color flagging these Atomos/quicktimes as 24fps is to prior to sending to Color do a media manage and recompress
all files ProResHQ 23.98, then color is happy...



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