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jim bachalo
- do the latest FCPX and Resolve(lite) releases support TRUE roundtripping?
on Feb 13, 2013 at 1:15:42 pm

I know there are a few older threads discussing this but I am interested in finding out the CURRENT State of the union so to speak.

Can we NOW roundtrip FCPX to Resolve, and BACK into FCPX WITHOUT rendering in Resolve?

If so, might be a good reason for me to switch from PPro to FCPX since, last time I checked anyways, this wasn't possible in a PPro to Resolve workflow.

Local is the new global


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Oliver Peters
Re: - do the latest FCPX and Resolve(lite) releases support TRUE roundtripping?
on Feb 13, 2013 at 1:32:42 pm

[jim bachalo] "Can we NOW roundtrip FCPX to Resolve, and BACK into FCPX WITHOUT rendering in Resolve?"

If you want to apply color grading in Resolve, then no. You have to render and the exported FCPXML refers to the new rendered media. That's the way all color correction systems work. Color correction nodes from Resolve do not become metadata readable in FCP X. We're you trying to achieve some other workflow?

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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jim bachalo
Re: - do the latest FCPX and Resolve(lite) releases support TRUE roundtripping?
on Feb 13, 2013 at 3:49:38 pm

Thanks Oliver. Wishful thinking on my part then I guess.
In your estimation will this ever be possible?
I would think that avoiding the extra rendering step in Resolve would be a worthwhile goal

Wasn't this the way FCP7+Apple color worked ( true roundtripping)?

Local is the new global


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Oliver Peters
Re: - do the latest FCPX and Resolve(lite) releases support TRUE roundtripping?
on Feb 13, 2013 at 4:18:40 pm

[jim bachalo] "In your estimation will this ever be possible?"

No. Metadata exchange of effects has been an industry Holy Grail for decades. I do understand that color board info will go to Resolve for basic primary settings, but I haven't tested it. In spite of most of these efforts over the years (like AAF), you still can't get basic editorial info, like speed changes, correctly into a grading application, let alone get color metadata back to the NLE.

[jim bachalo] "Wasn't this the way FCP7+Apple color worked ( true roundtripping)?"

No. Definitely not. The FCP info went to Color (via XML under the hood). You graded and rendered in Color and then sent back to FCP (again via XML under the hood). The new FCP sequence linked to the Color-rendered media. In this process, hardly any FCP effects were translated to Color and were added back to the Color media in the new FCP timeline. If you decided to change the color correction on a shot after getting it back into FCP, you could re-open the Color project, change the shot and re-render. FCP would then relink to the new media that was created.

But here's the question I have. If FCP X were capable of reproducing the same color correction as you could achieve in Resolve, why not simply use FCP X for your grading? If you haven't played with it, the color board in FCP X is extremely powerful once you get the hang of it. You can add as many levels as you like to a shot and you can add adjustment layers to the timeline or to segments of the timeline for overall grading. In that sense, functionality in X is actually quite similar to SpeedGrade.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: - do the latest FCPX and Resolve(lite) releases support TRUE roundtripping?
on Feb 13, 2013 at 5:44:13 pm

There is evidence of this happening, but right now it is format or application specific.

Red will allow a one light grade through RCX, that will effect clips in other applications. You can then regrade the raw footage in RCS and update the metadata which will update in your NLE.

GoPro and Cineform also have a similar metadata path, not as many options as Red or certainly Resolve (but it is fun to play with) and only works on GoPro files.

My guess is workflows like these, with more or less direct hooks via plugin to color specific applications, will become more popular over time, especially with the growing number of raw and logarithmic workflows.

Baselight for FCP7 and now Avid, has a plugin that would allow a Baselight graded program to be final rendered in FCP or Avid (and Nuke). This means you'd start a grade in Fcp7, send the footage and an XML to to the Baselight system, and then a colorist would be able to essentially email you back an XML, then you would be able to render at your local (sorry, global) location.

[jim bachalo] "Local is the new global"

http://www.filmlight.ltd.uk/products/editions/range_ed/index_ed.php

Jeremy


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Oliver Peters
Re: - do the latest FCPX and Resolve(lite) releases support TRUE roundtripping?
on Feb 13, 2013 at 5:53:29 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Baselight for FCP7 and now Avid, has a plugin that would allow a Baselight graded program to be final rendered in FCP or Avid (and Nuke). This means you'd start a grade in Fcp7, send the footage and an XML to to the Baselight system, and then a colorist would be able to essentially email you back an XML, then you would be able to render at your local (sorry, global) location."

But this only works if you buy and install the full plug-in, which isn't cheap. That plug-in is essentially a full Baselight environment running in tandem with FCP or Avid.

In the case of Red, RCXP and FCP X, that only works via the plug-in and that doesn't allow you to change settings like curves, once you are back inside FCP X.

These are all nice concepts, but never work in a broad sense because everyone wants to keep their end of it proprietary. That's why AAF has never been wildly adopted compared to the potential people saw in it.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: - do the latest FCPX and Resolve(lite) releases support TRUE roundtripping?
on Feb 13, 2013 at 6:02:20 pm

Baselight was one example, and yeah, it costs some money.

The GoPro metadata workflow is free as is the Red workflow (that is, if you don't own the cameras, you can still use the free tools).

I understand you can't change the settings in the NLE, but we are talking about being able to link externally graded sources, via metadata, back to the NLE.

With Red and GoPro, this is currently possible, and with a for pay plugin, it is possible with a Baselight ecosystem.

Jeremy


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: - do the latest FCPX and Resolve(lite) releases support TRUE roundtripping?
on Feb 13, 2013 at 6:03:18 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "it is possible with a Baselight ecosystem."

And just to be hyper clear, Baselight is for FCP7, Avid, and Nuke (not FCPX).


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