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Julian Bowman
blade tool
on Feb 1, 2013 at 9:00:04 am

It appears that the blade tool in the timeline does a similar thing to the skimmer so when i have cut something and just move the blade away from my moment and hit play it starts at where the blade is currently hovering.

Can this be turned off?

*whine - those of fragile dispositions can stop here*

It is rather annoying. I get that people like the skimmer but personally i loathe it in the timeline as it clashes with my way of working on the timeline, and to have it do the same thing on the blade tool (which doesn't even seem to offer any benefit) is a tad frustrating. I definitely feel they need to offer turn on/turn off options on a fair few of their 'cool' features.

I do get that some people may like them but some of what they have implemented seriously impedes my editing style to the point where any speed gains X offers are completely negated with its interruptions to my way of using the timeline... and no, it isn't about my having to bend to its will when the things that it makes me do could and should be optional (getting in before the acolytes) because what they have done isn't some definitive uber best way of doing things, it is just different and in some cases seemingly needlessly so, although in others perhaps just a nice idea that isn't for all and could be easily made optional...

a big one here is having two separate skimmers for the thumbnails (great, use it a lot) and the timeline (loathe it, never use it) so we can choose which we want on and which off without having to constantly hit the S key when moving between the two.

Another is the large grey area of the timeline being on/offable so that when you click on it the playhead doesn't go to that point and you can only move the playhead from the little bit along the top with the timecode on it, like 7. This one really impacts on my during every edit. Stops my focus being on my edit as i have to wrestle with the UI.

Little things like this would probably go a long way to accommodating more editing styles, enabling those that obviously abhored everything they did pre-X to dispose of it all and fully submerge themselves in the X way of doing things and those of us with defined editing styles we like to utilising them in X without wanting or needing to make X, 7. I do believe a big issue is the handcuffing X seems to do. Offer options, more people will be happier.


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Patrice Freymond
Re: blade tool
on Feb 1, 2013 at 9:15:12 am

I would suggest sending this same post to Apple. They are much more able to do something about your peeves than we, of fragile disposition, are.

Patrice

PS: you wouldn't believe how hancuffed I felt when I first moved from Avid to FCP back in the days ;-)


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Julian Bowman
Re: blade tool
on Feb 1, 2013 at 9:42:39 am

Ha, yeah, I am actually compiling a list of things, but the question was genuine, as in can it be switched off/am i missing something, as sometimes I simply am, and CC is my forum of choice so i like to whine on here too :) I am going to preface my whines with *whine* though so people can simply not read those bits :)

And to be honest I imagine that over time a lot of these things that annoy, are half baked, don't quite work, could be made better, are more likely than not going to be improved at some point. I guess at that point in life I'll simply be content and will have to *whine* on another forum :)



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Oliver Peters
Re: blade tool
on Feb 1, 2013 at 12:28:57 pm

You missed Patrice's point. If these are genuine bugs, concerns, feature requests, you need to use the Apple feedback system on their website. These forums are great for whining and user help and are occasionally monitored by Apple. Unfortuantely complaints offered here do not make it into Apple's official internal system of tracking reports that improve the software. So post as much here as you like, but don't expect it to be heard by Apple unless you officially submit it.

Regarding the question, can't you simply make the blade cut and hit the A or P keys to go back to standard or position behavior? And what about the S key to turn skimming on and off?

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Julian Bowman
Re: blade tool
on Feb 2, 2013 at 7:42:25 am

Hey Oliver, yes you are correct I can do that but it is frustrating having to add further keystrokes, and having to think about it. there seems to be a lot of having to manually turn things that get in the way on and off. And yes I am compiling a list of feedback things I will submit. I'm with X now for better or for worse and on the whole it is fine and dandy so want to figure out annoyances and bugs etc and feedback in the hope of improvement, and that is partly why I post here because I like seeing the responses and those responses are helping shape my understanding and thus my feedback list.



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: blade tool
on Feb 1, 2013 at 4:25:12 pm

[Julian Bowman] "It appears that the blade tool in the timeline does a similar thing to the skimmer so when i have cut something and just move the blade away from my moment and hit play it starts at where the blade is currently hovering.

Can this be turned off? "


I think it is worth pointing out there there are a few different kinds of skimming.

There's skimming in the Event Browser, similarly there's skimming in the inspector for audio.

In the timeline there is timeline skimming (which is toggled with the 's' key) and then there's clip skimming (which is toggled with command-option-s). They are similar, but they work differently.

They are independent, so, you can have skimming off and clip skimming on (which might suit you well) as that way you can blade individual elements with scrubbing, then move the blade tool out of the way and the timeline skimmer won't follow your mouse.

This might help you get used to timeline skimming. Or, as has been mentioned, simply turn off all skimming and go back to an FCP7 playhead environment.

To answer your question specifically:

Also, there a few different kinds of blading, by the blade tool, and by key command. I prefer the key commands. I have personally mapped the "blade" command to the letter 'b', blade all to Shift-b, I have mapped the Blade Tool to option-b. Here's a picture:



This means I rarely touch the separate blade tool, rather just cut where I want with one keystroke or perhaps a click-drag selection and a keystroke.

Jeremy


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Bret Williams
Re: blade tool
on Feb 2, 2013 at 1:30:47 am

I'll point out that you don't have to switch to the blade, or any tool. Just hold down b, click to cut, then release B and you're back to the original tool. Just another option.


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Charlie Austin
Re: blade tool
on Feb 1, 2013 at 10:38:22 pm

[Julian Bowman] "It is rather annoying. I get that people like the skimmer but personally i loathe it in the timeline as it clashes with my way of working on the timeline, and to have it do the same thing on the blade tool (which doesn't even seem to offer any benefit) is a tad frustrating. I definitely feel they need to offer turn on/turn off options on a fair few of their 'cool' features.

I do get that some people may like them but some of what they have implemented seriously impedes my editing style to the point where any speed gains X offers are completely negated with its interruptions to my way of using the timeline... and no, it isn't about my having to bend to its will when the things that it makes me do could and should be optional (getting in before the acolytes) because what they have done isn't some definitive uber best way of doing things, it is just different and in some cases seemingly needlessly so, although in others perhaps just a nice idea that isn't for all and could be easily made optional...

a big one here is having two separate skimmers for the thumbnails (great, use it a lot) and the timeline (loathe it, never use it) so we can choose which we want on and which off without having to constantly hit the S key when moving between the two.

Another is the large grey area of the timeline being on/offable so that when you click on it the playhead doesn't go to that point and you can only move the playhead from the little bit along the top with the timecode on it, like 7. This one really impacts on my during every edit. Stops my focus being on my edit as i have to wrestle with the UI.

Little things like this would probably go a long way to accommodating more editing styles,"


Well, I get what you're saying, and they can definitely improve some functions, but once you get used to working with it, it's actually a lot easier to move around the X UI than it was in 7. As for the blade tool... just use a keystroke or assign a mouse button to cut your clip. The blade tool sucked just as much in 7 as it does in X. I don't understand why anyone would use it in any NLE. ;-)

Skimming... yeah, it's annoying to hit S all the time, but honestly, using the skimmer to move around the timeline without moving the playhead is a pretty useful thing. Again, ya just gotta use it for a while, or at least i did...

As far as timeline focus... just click the title bar, or on a clip to "activate" it. The fact that they changed the behavior so that clicking a clip doesn't move the playhead is awesome. Like all things X, once you retrain your muscle memory you won't even think about it.

On an unrelated rant-ey note... Can we stop trying to get Apple to make the UI more like FCP 7? Please? That's what Premiere is for. lol

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~


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Bret Williams
Re: blade tool
on Feb 2, 2013 at 1:36:44 am

Premiere still bugs me that they advertise that it doesn't stop playing for anything. Adjust sound, color, whatever. But yet it stops for clicking. Press play, click ahead in the timeline and it instantly stops. I just can't get past that muscle memory.


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Charlie Austin
Re: blade tool
on Feb 2, 2013 at 2:13:14 am

[Bret Williams] "Premiere still bugs me that they advertise that it doesn't stop playing for anything. Adjust sound, color, whatever. But yet it stops for clicking. Press play, click ahead in the timeline and it instantly stops. I just can't get past that muscle memory."

Yeah... X used to not stop playing for anything, even when clicking the menu to show the viewer on a second monitor. Just kept playing right along. Then they added the second viewer and PIOP's and broke something. Hopefully they'll fix it.

-------------------------------------------------------------


~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~


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Bret Williams
Re: blade tool
on Feb 2, 2013 at 5:09:22 am

I actually edit while playing. I'll just keep clicking back earlier in the timeline and I'll be scooting around music and such. I love how the music kinda scrubs while the VO stays solid while playing. Doesn't have much purpose to do that, but it's cool. But just moving clips around, trimming, etc. without stopping the playback is nuts. I'll go into the inspector and adjust color or turn on / off filters too. Just cuz I can.


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Julian Bowman
Re: blade tool
on Feb 2, 2013 at 8:06:10 am

That was one of the things that put me off CS6 when I tried it, constantly having to hit space to start playing because I clicked ahead in the timeline. I dislike things that hinder they way I do things, and 7 did so much to allow me to just focus on my work. I heard Brett saying it used to perpetually play when jumping around in a thumbnail so I am hoping that returns too.

At the moment I am really disliking how X treats the zoom in/out keystroke when the timeline is playing - it zooms in out and forces the play head to the far left of the screen rather than zooming on where they play head is, like it does when the play head is static.

Conversely I am loving how I can cut whilst the play head is moving, delete the clip whilst it is moving, the clip settles into its new position butted up to the previous clip AND it continues playing from where it already was rather than back at the new cut as it did in 7. That is a joy.



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Julian Bowman
Re: blade tool
on Feb 2, 2013 at 7:56:26 am

Charlie, Brett and Jeremy: many thanks for those replies. I'm only reading at the moment but they make sense and I am going to have a play in a bit. If I can avoid going in and out of the B and just cut where I want that would be preferable. I do have cut all shortcuted and use it a lot and exactly as I wish so perhaps the same is possible for B will look into what Jeremby said about the three options.

And as for the skimmer, it's just a preference thing but I truly hate timeline skimming. I get others may love it but for me it just totally screws with my natural flow and constantly trips me up when it accidentally on. Why I find it annoying that it isn't a separate thing from thumbnail skimming is that skimming is essential in the thumbs so.... If/when they are separate features, you'll not hear from me about it again :)

As for clip skimming, just read about that yesterday so after Brett's comment will look into it and have a play, but I don't think that will circumnavigate the issue of S being for both timeline and thumbs.

Still, feedback list :)



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: blade tool
on Feb 2, 2013 at 1:10:50 pm

[Julian Bowman] "And as for the skimmer, it's just a preference thing but I truly hate timeline skimming. I get others may love it but for me it just totally screws with my natural flow and constantly trips me up when it accidentally on. Why I find it annoying that it isn't a separate thing from thumbnail skimming is that skimming is essential in the thumbs so.... If/when they are separate features, you'll not hear from me about it again :)"

I think you'll find a combo of having clip skimming on and timeline skimming off will help you until you get used to it, and you will get used to it and wonder how you ever lived without it. ;)

You will learn how to control it and use it to an advantage. It takes a little bit.


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Julian Bowman
Re: blade tool
on Feb 2, 2013 at 1:15:20 pm

ha! Ok, we shall see, though don't go betting the house on it, I am very happy with my antiquated method :)

Have now swapped the blade and blade tool around so the cut at playhead is now on B and it is much better so many thanks for that tip.

Is there anyway, now, of making the B as it now is cut on a clip I am hovering over? At the moment it defaults to cutting the primary unless I highlight another clip, when it cuts that - which is perfectly logical and understandable and I can't complain about it, but I remember reading somewhere you can hover over a clip and hit C to highlight it so was wondering if this hover over state can be applied to B now it is a quick cut rather than the blade tool.

No worries if not as even this current method is far more preferable to me than the blade tool having that skim style about it.

Cheers.



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: blade tool
on Feb 2, 2013 at 1:27:53 pm

[Julian Bowman] "Is there anyway, now, of making the B as it now is cut on a clip I am hovering over?"

This exactly what I am trying to explain.

Turn on clip skimming, turn off timeline skimming, and you'll be able to scrub a clip on any layer and cut it with b.


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Nicholas Kleczewski
Re: blade tool
on Feb 3, 2013 at 12:22:08 am

Cmd-B is all you need. Don't even have to touch the mouse. You can be real efficient and the select the following bladed material with C and do whatever you wanted to do with it. All without ever stopping play back. Also consider trim start and trim end. Opt-bracket I believe. That decreased the need for blading for me a decent amount.

Director, Editor, Colorist
http://www.trsociety.com


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Bret Williams
Re: blade tool
on Feb 4, 2013 at 7:20:28 am

I use the skimming to skim around the timeline and find an edit point and click to put the playhead there. Kinda like marking an in point. Which is important since in the timeline you can't really mark an in point. You can mark a range, but the minute you click on a clip to drag it and snap it to the in point you marked, you'll realize the in point is gone because you just selected a new clip/range when you clicked the clip. Very quick when you get the hang of it.


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