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baffled about doing a specific edit type

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Julian Bowman
baffled about doing a specific edit type
on Jan 21, 2013 at 8:25:52 pm

Hi all, hope I explain well enough.

I have video on my primary with the associated audio now detached. I want to delete the first 5 frames of video and then slide the clip back to the left so the audio starts at the tail end of the previous clip and my video starts 5 frames later (thus avoiding a little smirk).

So using normal pre-magnetic/sociopathic methods I simply cut the video by 5 frames and then moved the lot to the left 5 frames. Can I do this? can i bugger. The audio is now attached to a bit of slug because that is what replaced the 5 frames of video, trying to move the audio to the primary just disconnects it from the video which is shunted after the audio.

I can make a compound clip but then have to attach it to the previous clip in the primary just to make it do what I want, plus I don't want to have all the elements of that clip squashed into a single compound clip - i want all my elements visible and workable.

i don't know, from where i'm standing at the moment this is kind of real pish. Why is something so simple made so complex? I get the magnetic timeline on the whole - not really a new paradigm, just a different thing that pushes my clips around without my saying so - but it just seems to cause more hassle than it circumnavigates. I go 'oooh, that was useful' far less than 'WTF? Did no one use this in a real environment before finalising the design decisions'.

So, foaming at the mouth aside, if anyone gets what I am trying to do and knows a way of doing it other than this annoying compound squashing method, please let me know. Otherwise, thanks anyway, venting at least lowers the blood pressure.

FCPX - 2 steps forward, 2 steps back, does a little shimmy but i wanted it to do a swoosh


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: baffled about doing a specific edit type
on Jan 21, 2013 at 8:55:04 pm

If I get what you're saying, you want to add a split edit by using 5 frames of video from the outgoing clip to cover the first 5 frames of the incoming clip?

If so, select both clips, hit control-s, select the video cut point only and hit the period 5 times.

You don't need to detach audio for this.

Is that what you mean?

Jeremy


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Julian Bowman
Re: baffled about doing a specific edit type
on Jan 21, 2013 at 9:15:10 pm

Cheers J, will try it tomorrow, sounds like what I am after.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: baffled about doing a specific edit type
on Jan 21, 2013 at 11:19:59 pm

[Julian Bowman] "Cheers J, will try it tomorrow, sounds like what I am after."

Comma and period will trim by one frame.

Add shift and it will get you 5 frames.

I hope teaching keyboard shortcuts is OK. I find them more accurate, not elitest.

Brackets and backslash select which side of the cut you want to effect.

Shift bracket will select audio only(very useful as then you don't have to do the extra step of expanding).

The precision is fine (control-e, or double click a cut) but I find it is unnecessary for this type of edit and doesn't really add any hyper useful feedback.

The comma/period shortcuts remain in the precision editior, you still have to expand audio and video (control-s) or as Bill might prefer, Clip menu > Expand Audio/Video. If you don't expand, you'll trim both audio and video.

Or double clicking a clip will expand it, but that might still be, as Bill says, too "full time editor" advanced for you.


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Bill Davis
Re: baffled about doing a specific edit type
on Jan 21, 2013 at 9:01:18 pm

Just stop fighting it so much.

Look up (studying it for yourself will help you learn HOW to find this kind of information and suppress future impatience, IMO) the Precision Editor functions built into X.

With it, split edits are incredibly simple for all circumstances whether it's a clip leading to another clip or a standalone piece of video.

Jeremy's solution works well but presumes you're a full time editor who values efficiency and deep understanding of all of X's keystroke equivalents - which is superb if you're editing all day every day - but not always necessary if you just need to get a simple J or L cut done.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Julian Bowman
Re: baffled about doing a specific edit type
on Jan 21, 2013 at 9:16:43 pm

20 months on, still racking up those thumbs down Bill.

Ever stopped to wonder why?


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Steve Connor
Re: baffled about doing a specific edit type
on Jan 21, 2013 at 10:06:14 pm

[Julian Bowman] "20 months on, still racking up those thumbs down Bill.

Ever stopped to wonder why?
"


You attract Bill's attention when you vent!

Jeremy's answer is correct, that's all you need to do, it's a very useful function in FCPX.

I'm honestly not being snarky or condescending but all this stuff is very well contained in Ripple Training, it might help keep your blood pressure down at the very least.

Steve Connor
'It's just my opinion, with an occasional fact thrown in for good measure"


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Jason Brown
Re: baffled about doing a specific edit type
on Jan 21, 2013 at 11:20:04 pm

Am I missing something? Isn't it as simple as moving the connection point?


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: baffled about doing a specific edit type
on Jan 21, 2013 at 11:27:35 pm

You can do that too (option-command click).

My point was saying that you don't need to detach audio for a split edit.


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Bret Williams
Re: baffled about doing a specific edit type
on Jan 22, 2013 at 4:43:39 am

If you want to really do it FCP 7 style, expand both clips (on my system I don't have to select anything as I mapped shift+E to expand all clips, and shift+cmd+E to collapse all) and use the T tool (the equivalent of the R tool in legacy) to select the video edit point and roll it left or right. You can drag or use the <>(comma, period) keys like Jeremy suggests. Unfortunately you can't do the same for some reason to select the audio edit point. The only way to do that is place the playhead there and press shift+\, and even then you can't drag it with the mouse. You can only use <> or shift <>. A note on the T tool (and others) - you don't have to switch to the T tool. Just hold it down. When you release, it will go back to the A tool or whatever you were using previous.

Legacy really has one up on X in this aspect. No expanding necessary and no placing the playhead anywhere special and you can drag either the video or audio all ya want. If you work with linked selection on, you would simply use the R tool and option drag the audio or video edit point. If you don't use linked selection, you would simply use the R tool to roll either without option. So simple. It sounds like you may have been doing this the hard way in legacy as well from your original post


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Julian Bowman
Re: baffled about doing a specific edit type
on Jan 22, 2013 at 7:30:09 am

Cheers Steve, and Jeremy before. I am working my way through the MacPro training, so not diving in completely blinkered :) But sometimes I forget the proper names for things I do (self taught and a little dizzy at times) so googling doesn't quite through up the goods, thus at that point i post in here as it is my forum of choice (and terribly helpful). Which is why I didn't use the proper name for this type of edit in my title.

And yep, venting is more for my benefit than others, but look at Tom's responses to vents... such a much more pleasant man than Bill, and I have the utmost respect for him because of it.

Anyway, thanks all will try this out later.


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Steve Connor
Re: baffled about doing a specific edit type
on Jan 22, 2013 at 8:16:19 am

Don't forget to submit feature requests for things that annoy you the most, Apple actually read them!

Steve Connor
'It's just my opinion, with an occasional fact thrown in for good measure"


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Julian Bowman
Re: baffled about doing a specific edit type
on Jan 22, 2013 at 8:20:39 am

I do have a list. I'm generally rubbish at feedback but will try and get round to it at some point once i've used it more and discovered other things too.

I am accepting that over the past 18 months they have added a lot of stuff including little things. In fact I wouldn't be using it if they hadn't as what is now there is usable whereas when i first tried it at launch it was horrible to me. So much like we waited until FCP7 before the default for adding text shadow was 2 I guess there is just a wait ahead for these things to be resolved :)

Still, +/-3db and jump forward 1 second are right going to wind me up until they are put back in :) I use both of those very very frequently.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: baffled about doing a specific edit type
on Jan 22, 2013 at 2:18:06 pm

[Julian Bowman] "Still, +/-3db"

"Control =" and "control -" x3.

[Julian Bowman] " jump forward 1 second"

"+ 1 ." or "Plus sign, 1, period". Make sure nothing is selected. If something is selected, it will move it the number of frames/seconds you specify.

I can't help myself with the keyboard commands.

:)

Jeremy


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Julian Bowman
Re: baffled about doing a specific edit type
on Jan 22, 2013 at 5:13:07 pm

ha, nice try but no :)

I want my +/-3db back on one click. I had 7 to 0 as +3, +1, -1, -3db. Used it a lot.

And again, no with the jump forward 1 second. I want Shift + >. I used the one second jump so often and for many more reasons than actually marking time. It is so much easier and quicker than + 1 dot enter.

So though I know of both of these, they are workarounds, rather than things that were there and really should still be there. I get that some things have had to change because they do things a bit differently, but things like these - there is no logical reason they are not there other than omission, be that accidental or deliberate.

:)


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: baffled about doing a specific edit type
on Jan 22, 2013 at 6:42:43 pm

[Julian Bowman] "Used it a lot."

I hear you.

[Julian Bowman] "And again, no with the jump forward 1 second. I want Shift + >. I used the one second jump so often and for many more reasons than actually marking time. It is so much easier and quicker than + 1 dot enter. "

I hear you again. Send some feedback to Apple.

If you have a keypad, entering numbers is really easy (and accurate) but I see your point.

Jeremy


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James Ewart
Re: baffled about doing a specific edit type
on Jan 22, 2013 at 5:40:55 pm

Show off!!!


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Bill Davis
Re: baffled about doing a specific edit type
on Jan 22, 2013 at 12:07:31 am

Nope.

I see you've made about 37 Cow posts to date.

I've done a middling 2400 or so.

Which means absolutely nothing except I've put my ideas out a LOT right here for people to critique - for good or ill.

And suspect my thumbs up to thumbs down ratio is probably just fine - tho I'll admit I've never taken the time to figure out how to even LOOK at that.

You want to come in and blurt about what's so terrible about the software with all your deep understanding about how screwed up it is - feel free. I think it takes some stones to claim you have more wisdom about NLE design than the guy who was a central design driver for THREE of the most successful NLE endeavors in the history of editing - but whatever.

It MIGHT be better to wait a bit until you actually know how it works a bit more fully - but that's for you to decide.

I tried to point out two practical strategies that would actually help you - A) study the software more before you issue opinions - and B) learn about the Precision Editor.

You don't want to do that - fine.

No skin off my nose.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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James Ewart
Re: baffled about doing a specific edit type
on Jan 22, 2013 at 5:12:23 pm

For me detaching audio often creates more problems than it solves most of the time it's easier to expand audio rather than detach


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James Ewart
Re: baffled about doing a specific edit type
on Jan 22, 2013 at 5:18:27 pm

For me detaching audio often creates more problems than it solves most of the time it's easier to expand audio rather than detach. The just drag audio or video wherever you want... no??


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Don Smith
Re: baffled about doing a specific edit type
on Jan 22, 2013 at 8:49:00 pm

I learned something new reading this thread. Love the keyboard shortcuts that I didn't know existed.

However, I normally just double-click the audio part of the clip and that expands the clip (fast. don't have to take hands off the mouse) and simply drag on the end of the audio which will now move independently of the video. Fast L or J cut. Then just double-click the audio to make it join the video again.

Don Smith

NewsVideo.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: baffled about doing a specific edit type
on Jan 22, 2013 at 11:24:44 pm

[Don Smith] "However, I normally just double-click the audio part of the clip and that expands the clip (fast. don't have to take hands off the mouse) and simply drag on the end of the audio which will now move independently of the video. Fast L or J cut. Then just double-click the audio to make it join the video again."

I hear that.

I think in one of the ramblings I mentioned a double click.

For me, personally (and it's just me), what I don't like about a double click is that it's one clip at a time, and double clicking serves multiple functions. If you double click a cut, it opens the precision editor, if you double click a compound, it opens the compound in timeline, if you double click the video part it does...nothing. :)

Similar to Brett's shortcut of expanding everything, I like hitting the shift-] or shift-[. This expands the clip AND selects the edge. I wish there was a way to select the video only edge as quickly, so right now I resort to 'Shift-[' and then '['. This is why it would be so cool if you could hit one key command, and FCPX automatically splits each clip and adds a 5 frame audio fade on each side. If you need more or less, you could adjust it from there. I edit dialogue frequently and use tiny little audio cross fade overlaps everywhere (I'm sure everyone does) and having a quick way to start this process would be really cool.

As another tip, there's a command where you can expand the clips that only have splits, if you'd like that sort of feature.


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Steve Connor
Re: baffled about doing a specific edit type
on Jan 23, 2013 at 12:12:02 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "

As another tip, there's a command where you can expand the clips that only have splits, if you'd like that sort of feature."


We're all getting a little tired of your "elitist" shortcuts here :)

Steve Connor
'It's just my opinion, with an occasional fact thrown in for good measure"


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: baffled about doing a specific edit type
on Jan 23, 2013 at 12:13:23 am

[Steve Connor] "We're all getting a little tired of your "elitist" shortcuts here :)"

I'm sorry. I'll go home now.


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Don Smith
Re: baffled about doing a specific edit type
on Jan 23, 2013 at 10:46:11 am

Jeremy, if you and I had faced each other for a noon showdown in the middle of the street I think I would be dead in the dirt. I thought double-clicking the audio part of the clip to make a J or L cut was fast, but I like the Shift { or } and it might be faster. Put another notch on your mouse. :)

In my defense, most of the time I only want to J or L the audio on one clip and usually not both at the same edit. Still, I like that Shift { or } and I see the Shift - Backslash works as well.

NewsVideo.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: baffled about doing a specific edit type
on Jan 23, 2013 at 5:19:44 pm

[Don Smith] "Jeremy, if you and I had faced each other for a noon showdown in the middle of the street I think I would be dead in the dirt."

Bah!

We'd be sitting in the middle of the street avoiding horse dung, drinking coffee (or whiskey, or whiskey infused coffee) and discussing the merits of finding efficiencies.

I think there's great opportunities to use double clicks.

What this shows is that FCPX has multiple ways of going about performing certain tasks and it's not as rigid as some make it out to be. :)


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James Ewart
Re: baffled about doing a specific edit type
on Jan 23, 2013 at 5:38:52 pm

I'm for double clicking every time. Real editors like shortcuts co a lot of them still have their roots in online no?


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: baffled about doing a specific edit type
on Jan 23, 2013 at 5:55:35 pm

[James Ewart] "Real editors like shortcuts co a lot of them still have their roots in online no?"

I feel like this is a loaded question. ;)


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Bret Williams
Re: baffled about doing a specific edit type
on Jan 23, 2013 at 6:48:44 pm

Good golly, how can anything be faster than option+drag? My left hand lives on the cmd key for the most part, and my right hand is generally on the mouse. Option drag. Done. No double clicking, no expanding, etc.

Don, in your method you have to expand, drag, and then I assume drag the other since you can't drag the audio edit point. Why I still don't know. Or do you just leave the overlap?

In truth, X has made my work better BECAUSE of it's downright lame J and L cut methods. I tend to finesse the audio much more since I can't put a simple audio crossfade on I end up with a much better asymetrical cross or overlap then fade situation. And I can also tweak to the 100th of a frame for simple audio cuts.


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Dave Jenkins
Re: baffled about doing a specific edit type
on Jan 23, 2013 at 8:31:43 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "I like hitting the shift-] or shift-[. This expands the clip AND selects the edge."

Hi Jeremy, I just tried this and I can't get it to work. Is there some trick to it?

Dajen Productions, Santa Barbara, CA
MacPro Two 2.66GHz Quad Core - AJA Kona LHe
FCS 3 OS X 10.7.4
FCP X, Adobe CS6, Logic Pro, Squeeze, Filemaker


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: baffled about doing a specific edit type
on Jan 23, 2013 at 8:41:35 pm

[Dave Jenkins] "Hi Jeremy, I just tried this and I can't get it to work. Is there some trick to it?"

Playhead has to be on the cut, unfortunately.

I have sent feedback about this to Apple because it would be nice to be able to invoke this (and other trimming commands) when the playhead is not exactly on the cut.

For instance, if you have a clip selected and the playhead is in the middle of that clip, it'd be nice if you hit shift-], and the right audio edge of that clip is expanded and selected.

I got in to an "argument" about this will Bill Davis earlier (surprise!) but there are times when using these commands that left is right and right is left, meaning you have to hit the "select right" button to select the audio edge that is now situated on the left of the cut.

If you like these commands, I'd suggest sending feedback as well.

Jeremy


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Dave Jenkins
Re: baffled about doing a specific edit type
on Jan 23, 2013 at 9:28:25 pm

I did send that feedback!!!! Let's hope they think about this.

Dajen Productions, Santa Barbara, CA
MacPro Two 2.66GHz Quad Core - AJA Kona LHe
FCS 3 OS X 10.7.4
FCP X, Adobe CS6, Logic Pro, Squeeze, Filemaker


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Nicholas Kleczewski
Re: baffled about doing a specific edit type
on Jan 24, 2013 at 5:08:19 pm

I think the reason people get pissy on here tends to be comments like:

[Julian Bowman] "FCPX - 2 steps forward, 2 steps back, does a little shimmy but i wanted it to do a swoosh
"


....when what you are trying to do is completely rudimentary stuff and couldn't be more easy to do in FCPX. Arguably even easier in FCPX than FCP7 or Avid... just different.

My vote would be to just ask the question, without the negativity, get the correct response from someone who knows and keep editing. I find 90 percent of the comments on Creative Cow that are criticisms of FCPX are completely incorrect, and FCPX in those instances completely has a method for doing whatever it is they are complaining about, just differently.

Perhaps Apple should have called it "Continual Splicer Learned" and there'd be less issues, but here we are.

Director, Editor, Colorist
http://www.trsociety.com


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