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Changing field dominance

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Fabrizio D'Agnano
Changing field dominance
on Jan 12, 2013 at 3:15:27 pm

Hello.
I use a couple of PAL Canon AVCHD camcorders for action shots where form factor is important. As did FPC7, FCPX reads and labels the 1080i footage as progressive. If I don't change it, I will have wrong field order issues when I export the interlaced IMX master, while I usually can't see the difference while playng the HD timeline on an external LCD monitor via my Intensity Pro board. If I manually override the wrong interpretation in the inspector modifying the dominance to "upper first" one by one, the clips will retain the correct settings. If I select more clips in the Event Browser and override the wrong dominance to the lot, the clips won't retain the change and get the "progressive" label next time i Highlight one in the Browser. Is this a bug so that it's worth reinstalling and so on, or is it a standard behavior?
Thank you.

Fabrizio D'Agnano
Rome, Italy


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Jeff Kirkland
Re: Changing field dominance
on Jan 12, 2013 at 11:35:54 pm

Just tried that with a bunch of captured PAL 1080i HDV clips, changing them from upper first to lower first and back again and the changes to the multiple files stuck, so it does work.

There's obviously something different about the Canon AVCHD files if they're being mis-interpreted as being progressive (just checked a whole bunch of 1080i AVCHD from a Sony camera and FCPX had the field dominance right) so maybe that's causing an issue?

A re-install might be worth a try at least...

Jeff Kirkland | Video Producer | Southern Creative Media | Melbourne Australia
http://www.southerncreative.com.au | G+: http://gplus.to/jeffkirkland | Twitter: @jeffkirkland


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Fabrizio D'Agnano
Re: Changing field dominance
on Jan 13, 2013 at 12:22:37 am

Thank you Jeff.
The wrong interpretation is with the Canon's only. It happens with HF 100's, HF S100's, HF M46's and HF M406. It used to happen with FCP7 on Mac Pro's, iMac's and MBP's, and sincerely I hoped it was no more an issue in FCPX, but it seems it still is. I also have a AVCHD Panasonic V700 for those action shots and the field dominance appears right. I hadn't thought of trying to override the dominance to a bunch of clips coming from a Panasonic AVCHD or Sony HDV cam in the same system to see if the multiple clip fields dominance override fail issue is Canon AVCHD related or general. I will before reinstalling.
regards

Fabrizio D'Agnano
Rome, Italy


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Jeff Kirkland
Re: Changing field dominance
on Jan 13, 2013 at 12:45:33 am

In that situation, I'd probably batch the clips through something else to fix the field order prior to adding them to FCPX, don't know if there's anything that can do that and keep the AVCHD format, but I'd probably use MPEG Streamclip to convert them to something like ProRes LT.

Hope you get it worked out...

Jeff Kirkland | Video Producer | Southern Creative Media | Melbourne Australia
http://www.southerncreative.com.au | G+: http://gplus.to/jeffkirkland | Twitter: @jeffkirkland


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Fabrizio D'Agnano
Re: Changing field dominance
on Jan 13, 2013 at 12:24:40 pm

Jeff, I think its not so easy in FCPX, at least if I import the media from within FCPX. I am afraid that fiddling with names, extensions and metadata could eventually lead to problems of some sort, or so I seem to have understood from posts on this forum. Actually, the clips don't need to be fixed because they are 1080i and not 1080P. I don't really need to transcode them. One thing I really like in FCPX is that I can keep a lot of clips without building huge sized ProRes files. I only transcode to optimized the good ones, but I can still keep the rejected ones in case I need a few seconds from one of them, without having to get back to the card DMG (in my line of work I end up with a ton of useless clips as I need to play record and wait for something good to happen, and it's actually a few minutes in a few hours, say 10 good clips out of 100). If the problem is structural, so if FCPX does not allow me to modify multiple clips together, my best workaround could be working with them as they are playing the timeline on the external LCD and modifying the clips on the timeline once I am ready for the final output, and then double check the SD PAL file on a CRT monitor, or just waste some time after each import to manually modify them one by one. Anyway I'll try a reinstall tomorrow before I give up.
Thank you

Fabrizio D'Agnano
Rome, Italy


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Dave Gage
Re: Changing field dominance
on Jan 13, 2013 at 6:51:31 am

[Fabrizio D'Agnano] "The wrong interpretation is with the Canon's only."

I went through the same thing about a year-

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3654641?tstart=30
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3584352?tstart=90

I only shoot 30p now and use ClipWrap, and for me, problem solved.

Dave


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Fabrizio D'Agnano
Re: Changing field dominance
on Jan 13, 2013 at 12:45:22 pm

Thanks Dave.
Mine seems to be exactly the opposite, so interlaced footage gets labeled as progressive, but I guess it's the same issue.
Going back to multiple clips field dominance override, I just tried to do it on my MBP (I had tried on the MP so far), so different install etc. I selected a bunch of Sony AVCHD 1080i upper first, went to the inspector and modified them to "lower". I went back to the event browser and checked, and only the last one retained the change. The other reverted to "noe" or maybe were not affected at all by the change. I've checked the link you sent. I'll try the ClipWrap tomorrow, it looks like it should work fine.
Regards

Fabrizio D'Agnano
Rome, Italy


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Fabrizio D'Agnano
Re: Changing field dominance
on Jan 14, 2013 at 8:40:49 am

I just downloaded the ClipWrap trial version. It does the job all right. I imported a few rewrapped 1080i clips from the Canon's card, and then imported them into FCPX. They show the correct "upper first" instead of "none set". Checking the proper box the clips retained the camera content creation date, and I could see no visible change in quality. No need to render. So far so good!
Thank you!

Fabrizio D'Agnano
Rome, Italy


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Dave Gage
Re: Changing field dominance
on Jan 14, 2013 at 7:18:37 pm

[Fabrizio D'Agnano] "Checking the proper box the clips retained the camera content creation date, and I could see no visible change in quality. No need to render. So far so good!"

Great to hear! I do try to avoid 3rd party solutions whenever possible as it becomes yet another thing that can break and will need an upgrade. But, when the solution is simple and time is important, it does make sense to spend the $50 or $100 and get to work. I say this because I did avoid spending the money on ClipWrap initially, but it's paid for itself many times over now as a time saver. I feel the same way about ScreenFlow. Good examples of 3rd party quality software.

Dave


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Bret Williams
Re: Changing field dominance
on Jan 15, 2013 at 1:44:19 am

Do you have the events on the second monitor? X has always exhibited problems adjusting multiple clips at once in that way. When events are on normal monitor I don't have trouble.


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Fabrizio D'Agnano
Re: Changing field dominance
on Jan 15, 2013 at 9:03:17 am

Bret,
I have the Event on the second display on my main editing machine, a MacPro. Yesterday I tried the same operation on my MBP, single onboard screen, and the clips did not retain the change just as well. However, even if I could get to fix the multiple clip field dominance change, I think ClipWrap would still be the way to go. Having all the clips ready for editing form the beginning without the need for a further action would be a time saver and a safer editing environment. Actually, if I forget to correct a clip dominance and output to IMX PAL for delivery, after I double check playing the master file on a CRT, if I find an altered clip, I need to go back to the HD timeline, correct the clip, encode again, and check again. Or possibly get a "rejected" from my client if I don't notice.

Fabrizio D'Agnano
Rome, Italy


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