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Apple PR page on 10.4 for the curious.

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Bill Davis
Apple PR page on 10.4 for the curious.
on Dec 17, 2017 at 6:53:14 pm

The links are interesting.
The Education package, Premium Beat, Color Grading Central, etc, etc.

https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2017/12/final-cut-pro-x-introduces-360-degre...

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Apple PR page on 10.4 for the curious.
on Dec 17, 2017 at 9:23:28 pm

I'm not sure what you mean by the links.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Bill Davis
Re: Apple PR page on 10.4 for the curious.
on Dec 17, 2017 at 9:41:39 pm

Sorry, I should have written “references” or “nods” -

Mentions in the official Apple release that will be seen by many, many eyes all around the planet.

I maybe need to hire a copy editor for my forum posts!

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Apple PR page on 10.4 for the curious.
on Dec 17, 2017 at 9:54:25 pm
Last Edited By Craig Seeman on Dec 17, 2017 at 9:55:38 pm

Users can also apply custom lookup tables (LUTs) from popular color grading apps like DaVinci Resolve and websites including PremiumBeat, Color Grading Central and more.

Other third parties mentioned:

Final Cut Pro lets professional editors create VR content with the ability to import, edit and deliver 360-degree video and view the project in real time through a connected HTC VIVE headset with SteamVR.


Editors can output video to HDR monitors using I/O devices from AJA and Blackmagic with brightness levels up to 10,000 nits.

BTW "official" number of seats although it's I number I believe quoted previously.

Today, with more than 2 million seats, Final Cut Pro X is the most popular version of the software ever and is used by professional video editors to create incredible works of art, from award-winning Hollywood feature films and commercials, to international broadcasts and the world’s most popular YouTube videos.



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Oliver Peters
Re: Apple PR page on 10.4 for the curious.
on Dec 17, 2017 at 11:26:43 pm

[Craig Seeman] "from award-winning Hollywood feature films"

Unfortunately a bit of wishful marketing hyperbole.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Noah Kadner
Re: Apple PR page on 10.4 for the curious.
on Dec 18, 2017 at 4:19:11 am
Last Edited By Noah Kadner on Dec 18, 2017 at 4:31:38 am

[Oliver Peters] "Unfortunately a bit of wishful marketing hyperbole."

Fair comment but I don't think that's endemic to Apple now is it?

Noah

FCPWORKS - FCPX Workflow
FCP Exchange - FCPX Workshops
XinTwo - FCPX Training


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Oliver Peters
Re: Apple PR page on 10.4 for the curious.
on Dec 18, 2017 at 1:23:20 pm

[Noah Kadner] "Fair comment but I don't think that's endemic to Apple now is it?"

Well sure, but if we are talking about X and not previous versions, then it's a complete falsehood.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Brett Sherman
Re: Apple PR page on 10.4 for the curious.
on Dec 18, 2017 at 1:54:48 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Well sure, but if we are talking about X and not previous versions, then it's a complete falsehood."

So there are absolutely no "award winning Hollywood films" edited on X? Sometimes I'm amazed at how people misread things. You'll note it doesn't say "Oscar" or "Emmy". And "Hollywood films" is a spongy term. I guess since it says "films" that would indicate a minimum of 2. I'm sure it probably is technically accurate and would not qualify as a "complete falsehood" as you claim.

It's also a "from this to this" statement, highlighting the range of productions X is used for. So it doesn't insinuate any sort of dominance in the Hollywood film industry.

--------------------------
Brett Sherman
One Man Band (If it's video related I'll do it!)
I work for an institution that probably does not want to be associated with my babblings here.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Apple PR page on 10.4 for the curious.
on Dec 18, 2017 at 2:29:08 pm

[Brett Sherman] "So there are absolutely no "award winning Hollywood films" edited on X? Sometimes I'm amazed at how people misread things. You'll note it doesn't say "Oscar" or "Emmy". And "Hollywood films" is a spongy term."

So, name the awards. There are two films that fit their description: "Focus" and "Whiskey Tango Foxtrot". What awards? Yes, there are other international films that may or may not have won awards. But that's not the description Apple chose to use.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Tony West
Re: Apple PR page on 10.4 for the curious.
on Dec 18, 2017 at 4:02:45 pm

[Oliver Peters] "So, name the awards. There are two films that fit their description: "Focus" and "Whiskey Tango Foxtrot". "

I think there are likely other Hollywood films that were cut on X that we don't know about because they were smaller.

For example "DriverX" was cut on X. There is no way I would know that if I hadn't met the producer at a film festival and asked him what they cut it on.

Independent Hollywood films that go through film festivals and win awards.

My feature documentary cut on X won awards, but I don't live in Hollywood.


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Mark Suszko
Re: Apple PR page on 10.4 for the curious.
on Dec 18, 2017 at 4:37:02 pm

Wasn't Tangerine cut on FCPX?


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Apple PR page on 10.4 for the curious.
on Dec 18, 2017 at 5:51:22 pm

[Bill Davis] "The links are interesting.
The Education package, Premium Beat, Color Grading Central, etc, etc."


Maybe I'm behind the times since I haven't been using X that long, but is this a big deal because X couldn't import third party LUTs before? Or X could, but Apple never really advertised that as much as now?

[Noah Kadner] "Fair comment but I don't think that's endemic to Apple now is it?"

In general no, but if Avid made this same claim around MC they could easily point to a laundry list of Best Picture and/or Best Film Editing Oscar wins for films cut on MC.

[Brett Sherman] "So there are absolutely no "award winning Hollywood films" edited on X? Sometimes I'm amazed at how people misread things. You'll note it doesn't say "Oscar" or "Emmy". And "Hollywood films" is a spongy term."

And that's point of using 'weasel words' in marking materials. The wording is specific enough for the audience to get what the author is implying, but vague enough that the author can't deny making explicitly make false statements.

By saying "Hollywood" Apple implies a major studio production and coupling that with "award winning" and the first thing that people will think of is the Oscars. It's fairly obvious that Apple wants readers to 'fill in the blanks' and come away with the impression that X has been used to edit some of the famous Hollywood films they've seen and those films have won some of the famous Hollywood awards they've heard about. Which is certainly better from a marketing standpoint than mentioning films most people haven't heard of and awards from festival that most people didn't know existed.


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Bill Davis
Re: Apple PR page on 10.4 for the curious.
on Dec 18, 2017 at 6:31:16 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "Maybe I'm behind the times since I haven't been using X that long, but is this a big deal because X couldn't import third party LUTs before? Or X could, but Apple never really advertised that as much as now?"

Not sure it’s a LUT thing, in my view.

The only reason I noticed the reference to Denver’s site specifically was that with the new grading tools in 10.4 - I think there was some sense that it was a direct competitive shot at Finale, Colorista and of course, Resolve.

That CGC gets some love here directly from Apple PR seems contrary to that narrative.

That’s all.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Apple PR page on 10.4 for the curious.
on Dec 18, 2017 at 6:46:13 pm

[Bill Davis] "That CGC gets some love here directly from Apple PR seems contrary to that narrative.

That’s all."


Ah, I get what you are saying now. Thanks for the clarification, Bill.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Apple PR page on 10.4 for the curious.
on Dec 18, 2017 at 6:05:50 pm

You guys are grasping at straws, making excuses for a rushed PR piece that wasn't properly researched or vetted.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Noah Kadner
Re: Apple PR page on 10.4 for the curious.
on Dec 18, 2017 at 6:06:56 pm
Last Edited By Noah Kadner on Dec 18, 2017 at 6:09:02 pm

Not seeing your point. It's just a press release.

Noah

FCPWORKS - FCPX Workflow
FCP Exchange - FCPX Workshops
XinTwo - FCPX Training


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Oliver Peters
Re: Apple PR page on 10.4 for the curious.
on Dec 18, 2017 at 6:21:02 pm

[Noah Kadner] "Not seeing your point. It's just a press release."

Because it's blatantly false. I could care less, but since Bill brought it up and Craig chose to highlight that little bit of creative writing, I felt like it should be called out. Apple certainly makes enough money to employ a good PR team. There are also plenty of outstanding productions posted with FCPX. They don't need to make claims for something that hasn't been earned (yet). I just think it's sloppy. Probably handed off to an intern to write.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Shane Ross
Re: Apple PR page on 10.4 for the curious.
on Dec 18, 2017 at 7:00:33 pm

"FAKE NEWS!"

Sorry, just had to say that.

I agree with Oliver, statements like that need to be backed up, or have a basis in reality. And yes, if an independent film used it, and won a SPIRIT award or other film festival...that would count in my book (even though the term "Hollywood film" typically means made by a major studio). So if they make that claim, back it up.

Although I personally hate that type of marketing...and Avid does it ALL THE TIME. "THESE BEST PICTURE WINNERS/NOMINEES WERE ALL CUT ON AVID!" So? is that what made them good? No, it was the story and the direction and the acting and the editing...NOT the tools. I bet if the best picture was shot with a BlackMagic Pocket Cinema Camera and used lower end lighting, and was cut on FCX or Say Resolve, it would still have won. Because it wasn't the tool that made it great, it was the talent BEHIND the tools.

BUT, the claim those companies like to make is that "our product enabled the creatives to do what needed to be done, properly and efficiently, in order to make the great film they did." Fine..OK...whatever.

But for Apple to make that claim that award winning Hollywood films were cut using FCX...they need to back up the claim. WHERE'S THE BEEF!

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Oliver Peters
Re: Apple PR page on 10.4 for the curious.
on Dec 18, 2017 at 7:10:34 pm

[Shane Ross] "No, it was the story and the direction and the acting and the editing...NOT the tools."

Well, that's certainly true, but I interview a lot of these editors for stories. They will frequently tell me - as well as Steve Hullfish, who does a lot more interviews than I do - that they couldn't have done - fill in the blank here - without Media Composer, Premiere Pro, Final Cut Pro X, Lightworks, or whatever. The same is true of other user stories, like those that Peter and Ronny write for FCP.co.

So from a marketing perspective, a company is naturally going to associate themselves with that. They are saying that their tool is the choice of the people who do the craft and win the awards. The same holds true for guitars, watches, cars, etc.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Carmi Weinzweig
Re: Apple PR page on 10.4 for the curious.
on Dec 18, 2017 at 7:51:27 pm

Took me all of 5 minutes to find this list:

  • Young Detective Dee: Rise of the Sea Dragon (2013)
  • Loreak (2014)

  • Focus (2015)

  • Well Wishes (2015)

  • What Happened, Miss Simone? (2015)

  • La Isla del Viento (2015)

  • 600 Miles (2015)

  • Saved by Grace (2016)

  • Whiskey Tango Foxtrot (2016)

  • Saturday's Warrior (2016)

  • Voice from the Stone (2016)

  • El Hombre de las Mil Caras (2016)

  • Bokeh (2016)

  • Geostorm (2017)

  • Bella Ciao! (2017)


  • What Happened, Miss Simone? won a Primetime Emmy.


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    Oliver Peters
    Re: Apple PR page on 10.4 for the curious.
    on Dec 18, 2017 at 8:39:03 pm

    [Carmi Weinzweig] "Took me all of 5 minutes to find this list:"

    A list of films, for sure. Hollywood and award-winning? Hmm...

    I would agree that "Miss Simone" would fit by a loose definition.

    - Oliver

    Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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    Tony West
    Re: Apple PR page on 10.4 for the curious.
    on Dec 18, 2017 at 9:30:45 pm

    [Oliver Peters] "I would agree that "Miss Simone" would fit by a loose definition."

    You sound like you think just anybody could win a Primetime Emmy. Like it's no big deal. Like everybody on here has like 20 of them.


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    Shane Ross
    Re: Apple PR page on 10.4 for the curious.
    on Dec 18, 2017 at 10:14:37 pm

    Well, typically when we hear "Hollywood movie," that means something that has been released theatrically...in theaters. Not a TV movie. Not shaming that accomplishment at all, nor the medium. Just the terminology used isn't aimed at TV movies.

    Shane
    Little Frog Post
    Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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    Carmi Weinzweig
    Re: Apple PR page on 10.4 for the curious.
    on Dec 18, 2017 at 11:46:35 pm

    [Shane Ross] "Well, typically when we hear "Hollywood movie," that means something that has been released theatrically...in theaters. "

    What Happened, Miss Simone? was nominated for an Oscar. That means it met these rules:

    An eligible documentary film is defined as a theatrically released nonfiction motion picture dealing creatively with cultural, artistic, historical, social, scientific, economic or other subjects. It may be photographed in actual occurrence, or may employ partial reenactment, stock footage, stills, animation, stop-motion or other techniques, as long as the emphasis is on fact and not on fiction.

    Sounds to me like it meets your definition.


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    Oliver Peters
    Re: Apple PR page on 10.4 for the curious.
    on Dec 18, 2017 at 10:25:52 pm
    Last Edited By Oliver Peters on Dec 18, 2017 at 10:31:44 pm

    [Tony West] "You sound like you think just anybody could win a Primetime Emmy. Like it's no big deal. Like everybody on here has like 20 of them."

    Man, you are just making up stuff out of whole cloth. The point is that it's not a Hollywood film in the strictest sense. Hence my "loose" comment.

    Just to be clear, when a PR blurb says an "award-winning Hollywood film", we are talking about theatrical and distributed by one of the major studios. Any indie film that runs on a few hundred screens isn't a "Hollywood film". And conversely the original "Star Wars" started out as an "indie" film IIRC.

    I'm not slighting anyone's production here. Merely pointing out that Apple PR release is sloppy and uses a lot of license with the facts, as it relates to that particular verbiage. Or maybe they were actually just referring to the track record of FCP "legacy" :) Maybe more likely.

    - Oliver

    Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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    Bill Davis
    Re: Apple PR page on 10.4 for the curious.
    on Dec 18, 2017 at 11:15:38 pm

    Wow, such hostility.

    If anyone wonders why the vast majority of the FCP X pro community has pretty much given up on participation here, this thread would be a pretty good example of why.

    It’s a press release.

    Not a statue banning handguns or requiring the forum to adopt Shari’a law, for heavens sake. 😳

    Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
    The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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    Shane Ross
    Re: Apple PR page on 10.4 for the curious.
    on Dec 18, 2017 at 11:18:47 pm

    What hostility? We are just pointing out that a PR release is wrong. We do this with other NLE makers too.

    Shane
    Little Frog Post
    Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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    Carmi Weinzweig
    Re: Apple PR page on 10.4 for the curious.
    on Dec 19, 2017 at 12:04:34 am

    [Oliver Peters] "Just to be clear, when a PR blurb says an "award-winning Hollywood film", we are talking about theatrical and distributed by one of the major studios"

    It was released by Netflix. I think that most people would consider them a major studio these days. Also, I only listed the one of its awards, but to be clear, here are the rest:

    Awards:

    AFI Docs Festival Audience Award: Best Documentary Feature Film
    Black Film Critics Circle Awards: Best Documentary
    Peabody Awards: Documentary and Education
    Women Film Critics Circle Awards: Josephine Baker Award.


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    Oliver Peters
    Re: Apple PR page on 10.4 for the curious.
    on Dec 19, 2017 at 12:22:47 am

    [Carmi Weinzweig] "It was released by Netflix. I think that most people would consider them a major studio these days."

    You are correct and I stand corrected.

    - Oliver

    Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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    Carmi Weinzweig
    Re: Apple PR page on 10.4 for the curious.
    on Dec 19, 2017 at 1:13:59 am

    [Oliver Peters] "You are correct and I stand corrected."

    I went through the rest of the list, and there are quite a few that won real awards including:

    Loreak (Flowers was the English title)
    El Hombre de las Mil Caras (The Man of a Thousand Faces was the English title)
    Well Wishes
    600 Miles (won several other awards, but was also nominated for the Transylvania International Film Festival's Transylvania Trophy! ☺ )

    There were also others that were released by major studios and were nominated for Academy Awards, but did not win.


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    Andrew Kimery
    Re: Apple PR page on 10.4 for the curious.
    on Dec 19, 2017 at 5:39:55 am

    [Bill Davis] "Wow, such hostility."

    Wow, such pearl clutching. 😉

    Apple PR obviously over-reached and got called out by Oliver, Shane went a step further and called out every NLE company that uses the 'Hey, look at the awards our software helped win' schtick and some other people are approaching the point of debating what the definition of the word "is" is to try and validate Apple PR's statement which just goes to *prove* Oliver's point that the wording can't be taken at face value.

    Of course, as has been stated many times here, 'Hollywood' workflows and 'Hollywood' successes are meaningless so why people are trying so hard to defend Apple's dubious statement about this 'meaningless' achievement is a mystery to me. ☺

    Dollars to donuts if you walk up to someone and say "What's the first thing that comes to your mind when you hear the phrase 'award-winning Hollywood feature films'" the reply won't be , "A Netflix documentary that won a Primetime Emmy and had a 7 day theatrical run in LA to meet Oscar eligibility requirements." That's not a knock on "What Happened, Miss Simone?" at all, but Apple's statement intentionally chose to use the phrase "award-winning Hollywood feature films" as opposed to the more accurate "award-winning documentary films" or "award-winning independent feature films" for a reason.

    To Noah's point, it's common for companies (and people) to pad their resumés, but that doesn't mean it has to go unchallenged.


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    Ronny Courtens
    Re: Apple PR page on 10.4 for the curious.
    on Dec 19, 2017 at 6:50:59 am

    I agree with Oliver that the Apple PR statement about "Hollywood movies" is not a good choice of words. I would never use "Hollywood movies" as a reference. In fact, over here, when someone mentions "Hollywood movies" these days, we tend to smile. A better choice of words would have been: "... from award-winning feature films and commercials, to international broadcasts and the world’s most popular YouTube videos."

    - Ronny


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    Shane Ross
    Re: Apple PR page on 10.4 for the curious.
    on Dec 19, 2017 at 2:12:55 am

    [Oliver Peters] "You are correct and I stand corrected."

    Me too

    Shane
    Little Frog Post
    Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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    Carmi Weinzweig
    Re: Apple PR page on 10.4 for the curious.
    on Dec 19, 2017 at 8:49:36 am

    [Shane Ross] "Me too"

    Admit it, the Transylvania Trophy nomination is what pushed it over the edge for you! :-D


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    Oliver Peters
    Re: Apple PR page on 10.4 for the curious.
    on Dec 19, 2017 at 12:59:02 pm

    I just want to reiterate that I wasn’t trying to take away from anyone’s work, just that using the short hand that was used in the release doesn’t do anyone any good. In fact it sort of takes away from the real awards being won all over the world. I just think Apple would have better served the FCPX community and the product by being a bit more accurate.

    Oliver

    Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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    Tony West
    Re: Apple PR page on 10.4 for the curious.
    on Dec 19, 2017 at 2:09:05 pm

    When I read the statement it was clear to me that they were not talking about Oscars because they would have just said Oscars. They were taking about other awards.

    For me, other awards include, Emmy, Golden Globe and film festivals.

    Anybody who has done the festival circuit knows how difficult it is to just get your film selected. Even in the "small" festivals. You are sometimes competing against thousands of films from all over the world and many with very large budgets. It's a big deal to get in, and an even bigger deal to win.


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    Brett Sherman
    Re: Apple PR page on 10.4 for the curious.
    on Dec 20, 2017 at 1:33:43 pm

    The problem is you claimed the Press Release was "blatantly false" without doing any actual research yourself. Was it a bit of puffery on Apple's part. Of course, all PR statements are. But the "false" label should only be thrown out when you have actual proof that the claims AS THEY ARE WORDED are actually false. That includes different interpretations of what a "Hollywood film" means.

    I think that is my primary objection with your reaction. You didn't prove that what they said was "false". Just a gut feeling I guess. A better response would have been, that it's an exaggeration. Which I would have happily accepted.

    --------------------------
    Brett Sherman
    One Man Band (If it's video related I'll do it!)
    I work for an institution that probably does not want to be associated with my babblings here.


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    Oliver Peters
    Re: Apple PR page on 10.4 for the curious.
    on Dec 20, 2017 at 2:25:35 pm

    [Brett Sherman] "The problem is you claimed the Press Release was "blatantly false" without doing any actual research yourself."

    You are correct, although I have done the research. But by a strict interpretation of what was written, "Simone" fit and that was my oversight, which I acknowledged. I also mentioned early on that there were plenty of other notables outside of Hollywood. Did I overreact? Yes, I did, although not so much initially. I guess when the "Hollywood" part was highlighted, that I went a bit farther than I intended. So be it. My apologies.

    - Oliver

    Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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