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kingsley asumadu
iPad Pro Vs Surface Pro
on Dec 16, 2017 at 7:46:24 pm

Hi Guys,
I need your advice on my next purchase, basically I'm looking to get a tablet (iPad Pro or the latest surface pro). My goal is to be able to use it to create content with Adobe cc in conjunction with my iMac.
I was wondering if you can advise me on which one of the two will do a better job at viewing and working with files from the cc application, with and without the iMac?

Thank you,
Kingsley.


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Tero Ahlfors
Re: iPad Pro Vs Surface Pro
on Dec 16, 2017 at 7:52:17 pm

You can't run normal apps on an iPad because it's an iOS device whereas the Surface has a proper Windows on it that you can use to do whatever a normal computer can do.


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andy patterson
Re: iPad Pro Vs Surface Pro
on Dec 16, 2017 at 9:19:02 pm

[Tero Ahlfors] "You can't run normal apps on an iPad because it's an iOS device whereas the Surface has a proper Windows on it that you can use to do whatever a normal computer can do."

You are correct. I find it odd that in the year 2017 so many people still have not received the memo about both products. Having said that when will Apple release the iPhone Pro for the most demanding professionals : )


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Noah Kadner
Re: iPad Pro Vs Surface Pro
on Dec 16, 2017 at 10:20:41 pm

The iPad will work in conjunction with the iMac a lot more harmoniously. Tablets in general are optimized more for content consumption than creation. But the end result depends greatly on what it is you hope to accomplish on one vs. the other.

Noah

FCPWORKS - FCPX Workflow
FCP Exchange - FCPX Workshops
XinTwo - FCPX Training


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andy patterson
Re: iPad Pro Vs Surface Pro
on Dec 17, 2017 at 12:59:34 am

[Noah Kadner] "The iPad will work in conjunction with the iMac a lot more harmoniously. Tablets in general are optimized more for content consumption than creation. But the end result depends greatly on what it is you hope to accomplish on one vs. the other."

The iPad can probably integrate with an iMac more harmoniously than the Surface Pro but I am not sure why you would need an iMac if you own an $2,200.00 Surface Pro. The Surface Pro can do everything the iPad, iMac and Mac Book Air can do combined for a lot less money. Having said that it does not hurt to look at what the other Windows 10 tablets have to offer.


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Noah Kadner
Re: iPad Pro Vs Surface Pro
on Dec 17, 2017 at 1:57:59 am

But there's the rub- if I am going to bother to switch over to Windows from Mac OS l, I want a super powerful CPU and GPU I can personally upgrade whenever it suits me.

Noah

FCPWORKS - FCPX Workflow
FCP Exchange - FCPX Workshops
XinTwo - FCPX Training


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andy patterson
Re: iPad Pro Vs Surface Pro
on Dec 17, 2017 at 11:24:33 am

[Noah Kadner] "But there's the rub- if I am going to bother to switch over to Windows from Mac OS l, I want a super powerful CPU and GPU I can personally upgrade whenever it suits me."

If they are switching from Mac to PC they might not want to upgrade. Up-gradable RAM and up-gradable CPU is a bad idea for cell phones and tablets. The PCB for the RAM module is about 1/32 of an inch think plus you need the memory slots/sockets. Same holds true for the housing unit of the CPU.

Some of the Windows laptops can be upgraded as well as the Windows desktops. We will soon see 6 and 8 core CPUs for the Windows tablets with much better GPUs built in. Will the iPad still use a mobile CPU in 2019?


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John Rofrano
Re: iPad Pro Vs Surface Pro
on Dec 17, 2017 at 1:49:20 am

[kingsley asumadu] "My goal is to be able to use it to create content with Adobe cc in conjunction with my iMac."
You've just answered your own question because the iPad Pro doesn't run Adobe CC so you won't be doing any content creation with desktop Adobe CC applications on an iPad like you can with the Surface Pro. Having said that, you should check out the Adobe Mobile Apps and see what they have for the iPad. For example Adobe Illustrator Draw and Adobe Photoshop Sketch would be great for creating graphic content for your video work, and those apps have access to the Adobe cloud, but if you were hoping to edit videos I don't believe there is an Adobe app for that (but I don't use any Adobe products).

iPad Pro Vs Surface Pro

You should know that these are two completely different beasts. The iPad Pro is a tablet with a user interface designed from the ground up for a touch based user experience which is very "Mac-like" in the way it behaves. The Surface Pro is basically a Windows 10 laptop with a touch screen and detachable keyboard. It runs the Windows desktop which is IMHO, a horrible interface for a tablet since it was designed to be used with a mouse. Very clunky and not the smooth experience of the iPad at all.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasstsoftware.com



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Ronny Courtens
Re: iPad Pro Vs Surface Pro
on Dec 17, 2017 at 5:25:16 am

What on earth does a Surface have to do with "FCP X Debates"? This forum is growing into a complete mess. Isn't there a hardware forum somewhere on the Cow where the "X vs. Y" children can play?

- Ronny


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Steve Connor
Re: iPad Pro Vs Surface Pro
on Dec 17, 2017 at 11:09:28 am

[Ronny Courtens] "What on earth does a Surface have to do with "FCP X Debates"? This forum is growing into a complete mess. Isn't there a hardware forum somewhere on the Cow where the "X vs. Y" children can play?"

I know this forum has a broader outlook than just FCPX, and I enjoy the debates about other NLE's but constant referencing of PC's and Microsoft products on here are really getting tedious. The fact that a major release of FCPX has happened and there isn't a vast amount of discussion on here about it I think confirms Bill's theory that this isn't a place that FCPX users like to hangout any more.

"Traditional NLEs have timelines. FCPX has storylines" W.Soyka


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Herb Sevush
Re: iPad Pro Vs Surface Pro
on Dec 17, 2017 at 4:51:45 pm

[Steve Connor] " The fact that a major release of FCPX has happened there isn't a vast amount of discussion on here about it I think confirms Bill's theory that this isn't a place that FCPX users like to hangout any more.
"


I just checked the regular FCPX forum and nobody is talking about the new release there either. In fact there's more posting here on 10.4. I have no way of knowing, but maybe it's a boring release. Since your here, tell me what's new in 10.4

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Bill Davis
Re: iPad Pro Vs Surface Pro
on Dec 17, 2017 at 6:32:35 pm

The huge Facebook groups relative to X, Twirrer hash tags, web articles - The 10.4 discussions are all over those.

Largely around the three big change areas Apple demo’d for us in Cupertino in October

The new integrated Color Tools
Integrated 360 - VR - AR.
and the plumbing to handle all the HDR/wide dynamic range content barreling towards us.

The most discussion has centered on Apple’s implementation of the new internal color tools - and that has been the source of LOTS of immediate praise in their design, utility, and implementation.

There has also been a ton of focus on the transition from Sierra to High Sierra and how those underpinnings are settling in - and how that might have effected the stability of the App.

The general concensus has been that there were some early glitches in the S>HS move but those patches have been done and things are stabilizing nicely.

Purely on the FCP X front, the 10.4 release has been notable for its lack of issues and general stability.

Anything outside of the usual plugin glitches requiring third party developers to update their code.

It’s been gloriously smooth for such a large set of fundamental changes and improvements.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: iPad Pro Vs Surface Pro
on Dec 18, 2017 at 5:09:04 pm

[Steve Connor] "The fact that a major release of FCPX has happened and there isn't a vast amount of discussion on here about it I think confirms Bill's theory that this isn't a place that FCPX users like to hangout any more."

The major 10.4 features were revealed in October and got thoroughly discussed at the time though. Sure they just launched, but there's not really anything new to talk about right now except any bugs and minor changes that got released. After a few weeks of being in the wild I'm sure we'll start hearing about the good, and the band, of the new 360 tools, grading tools, etc.,.

Also, anyone is free to start a new thread (currently there are at least two about 10.4) so if you don't think 10.4 content on enough FCP X content then start new threads on 10.4 or FCP X. ☺

I agree with Bill that this place isn't like FCP.co, the Final Cut Pro X Editors group on FB, or even the FCP X forum here on the COW and, IMO, it shouldn't be because those places (and many other likes them) already exist. Typically birds of a feather flock together so websites, FB groups, forums, etc., try to capitalize on that tendency to gather large audiences of like minded people to talk about the thing(s) they like about each other.

This place is the only forum I can think of (outside of some political forums) that actively invites dissent. The point of this place is not have people with homogeneous POVs talking about how great their POV is, but to have people with heterogeneous POVs constantly testing each other.


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Ronny Courtens
Re: iPad Pro Vs Surface Pro
on Dec 22, 2017 at 9:27:30 am

Andrew Kimmery wrote: I agree with Bill that this place isn't like FCP.co, the Final Cut Pro X Editors group on FB, or even the FCP X forum here on the COW and, IMO, it shouldn't be

Absolutely, and it has been very interesting for me to see the opinions about FCP X make such a large shift here over the years.

I welcome everyone's opinions as long as they are civilized and as long as they contribute to this forum, which is called FCP X Debates. If you think that "iPad Pro vs Surface" is even remotely related to the essence of this forum, then I will happily start a "Porsche Carrera vs. Ford Taurus" thread here. And yes, I will post videos (-:

- Ronny


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Steve Connor
Re: iPad Pro Vs Surface Pro
on Dec 22, 2017 at 11:54:38 am

[Ronny Courtens] ""Porsche Carrera vs. Ford Taurus" thread here. And yes, I will post videos (-:
"


Would love to see those :)

"Traditional NLEs have timelines. FCPX has storylines" W.Soyka


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andy patterson
Re: iPad Pro Vs Surface Pro
on Dec 23, 2017 at 4:27:52 am

[Ronny Courtens] " If you think that "iPad Pro vs Surface" is even remotely related to the essence of this forum, then I will happily start a "Porsche Carrera vs. Ford Taurus" thread here. And yes, I will post videos (-:"

Is posting about Affinity Design or Pixelmator Pro OK? Is posting about the iPhone OK? Is ranting about Adobe's Creative Cloud OK? From what I can tell just about anything related to computers can be posted in this forum. Perhaps a post about a Ford Taurus that is running iOS or Windows 10 would be appropriate.


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Tom Sefton
Re: iPad Pro Vs Surface Pro
on Dec 23, 2017 at 10:52:14 am

Yes affinity and pixelmator are relevant to people using fcpx because they are further alternatives to adobe cc. Surface is not relevant on an fcpx forum.

I’d sooner read car reviews on here than hardware comparisons to home made pc’s.

Co-owner at Pollen Studio
http://www.pollenstudio.co.uk


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Andrew Kimery
Re: iPad Pro Vs Surface Pro
on Dec 23, 2017 at 6:25:32 am

[Ronny Courtens] "Absolutely, and it has been very interesting for me to see the opinions about FCP X make such a large shift here over the years. "

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that as X has become a more feature-rich and battle tested NLE it has become a more accepted NLE. Which is the typical path of any new entrant into a market with already established players.


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greg janza
Re: iPad Pro Vs Surface Pro
on Dec 23, 2017 at 4:22:28 pm
Last Edited By greg janza on Dec 23, 2017 at 5:03:25 pm

[Ronny Courtens] " If you think that "iPad Pro vs Surface" is even remotely related to the essence of this forum, then I will happily start a "Porsche Carrera vs. Ford Taurus" thread here."

I think your analogy would work much better as Tesla Model S vs. Tesla Model 3.

Both offer great features which translate into a smooth workflow. The days of simply writing Windows off are long gone and Apple now has to sell the professional market on why there's a viable reason to remain an Apple customer.

I Hate Television. I Hate It As Much As Peanuts. But I Can’t Stop Eating Peanuts.
- Orson Welles


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John Rofrano
Re: iPad Pro Vs Surface Pro
on Dec 24, 2017 at 1:31:12 am
Last Edited By John Rofrano on Dec 24, 2017 at 1:36:28 am

[greg janza] "The days of simply writing Windows off are long gone and Apple now has to sell the professional market on why there's a viable reason to remain an Apple customer."
OK, so here's why you should stick with a Apple and a Mac:

Final Cut Pro X vs Premiere Pro both on a MacBook Pro 2016 and, with the same 4K timeline, in Premiere Pro on a Dell XPS 2016 (smaller bars are better)



A 2 minute 4K Timeline export on a 2016 MacBook Pro took 3.27 minutes for FCP X and a wapping 58.42 minutes for PPro! (FCP X is ~18x faster !!!) Even running PPro on a Dell XPS with the same specs it took 18.51 minutes which still makes FCP X 5.6x faster!

This is not only for video. I'm a software developer who spent 30+ years on Windows. I do cloud development and need to have several virtual machines (VM) running on my laptop to do my work. I moved to the Mac when I realized that I could only run 1 or 2 VM's on Windows before it began to bog down and become unresponsive but I could run 4 to 6 VM's on an equivalent spec Mac before it started to slow down. I personally witnessed this productivity boost and I promptly traded in my Lenovo Laptop for an equivalent speced MacBook Pro and never looked back.

IBM just converted over half of their workstations to Mac sighting 3x savings in total cost of ownership when compared to Windows PC's saving up to $535 per Mac per four years in comparison to PCs. So major corporations are moving to the Mac not away from it. You can read about it here:

Switch to Macs from PCs reportedly saves IBM $270 per user
IBM says it is 3X more expensive to manage PCs than Macs

I also teach software development at the university level and I can't tell you all of the problems students have following along in class with their Windows laptops vs the students that have a Mac. I don't mean to be cliche' but the Macs just work and Windows always needs something installed and a reboot before anything works and even then it doesn't have the unix tools need to do cloud development work so it never works consistently. It's huge hassle in class!

Also, I have personally had to reboot my Windows PC because of applications that hang and Windows can't seem to kill them no matter how many times I open the Task Manager and press the Kill button. On my Mac, I open the Force Quit menu and the hung applications quits almost immediately. In my 4 years of using a Mac I have never had one app that didn't exit when forced to quit but Windows doesn't seem to have that kind of control and I was forced to reboot to get the program out of memory many, many times. My experience is that Windows is hugely inferior to macOS in a lot of ways. Like I said, 30+ years using Windows, 4 years using a Mac, I would never go back to Windows if you paid me.

So there are lots of reasons to abandon Windows in favor of a Mac and that's exactly what the IT industry is doing. Maybe the film industry likes higher cost of ownership and sower performance? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

BTW, You can watch the FCPX vx PPro test here (it starts at about 5:02):





The first part of that video attempts to show that the MacBook Pro 2016 is inferior to the Dell XPS but all it really shows is that Premiere runs better on Windows than a Mac because when you use FCP X it blows Premiere Pro out of the water on the same hardware.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasstsoftware.com



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andy patterson
Re: iPad Pro Vs Surface Pro
on Dec 24, 2017 at 7:01:31 am

[John Rofrano] "The first part of that video attempts to show that the MacBook Pro 2016 is inferior to the Dell XPS but all it really shows is that Premiere runs better on Windows than a Mac because when you use FCP X it blows Premiere Pro out of the water on the same hardware."

I think all the benchmarks that show FCPX outperforming Premiere Pro are done with mediocre laptops using AVCHD/h.264. FCPX does have better performance than Premiere Pro when using a mediocre laptop with those codecs. Do you know why that is?

YOU WANT THE TRUTH?

WELL YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH : )


If I disable the GPU on Windows PC (Premiere Pro) with a Quad Core Haswell i7 at 3.4 GHZ my 2.66 GHZ dual core Mac Mini (FCXP) will playback more real-time effects than the PC. Does that sound impressive? It should. Having said that if I enable the GPU on my desktop PC it will kick the snot of the Mac Mini. Any cheap Apple laptop running FCPX will allow you to edit h.246/mpeg4/AVCHD with ease using FCPX. The same cannot be said about Premiere Pro. Why is that you ask? Because FCPX uses Intel's Quick Sync. Even if your laptop had a dedicated mobile GPU FCPX will still have an advantage over Premiere Pro when using an Apple laptop and OS X. That is because the Quick Sync probably does 90% of the processing. Some FCPX user think if you get a $4,500.00 Mac Pro the performance gap between FCPX and Premiere Pro will widen. That is not the case. Do you know why?

The Xeon CPUs do not have Intel's Quick Sync. If you go from a dual core to a quad core when editing h.264 you will see a huge boost in performance using Premiere Pro but you will not see a huge performance boost using FCPX. Do you know why? Intel's Quick Sync is the same for the dual core CPU and the Quad Core CPU. Let me put it to you like this. An 8 core i7 CPU does not have 8 Quick Sync cores. As the computer specs get better the performance between Premiere Pro and FCPX begin to even out. If you edit R3D codecs or camera raw Intel's Quick Sync will not work with those codecs. It only works with AVCHD/H.264/mper4 codecs. One the PC side you can get double the performance for less money than the Mac Book offers.

If you want to run Premiere Pro a Windows 10 PC will be your best bet and cost much less than what Apple has to offer.







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John Rofrano
Re: iPad Pro Vs Surface Pro
on Dec 24, 2017 at 1:53:56 pm
Last Edited By John Rofrano on Dec 24, 2017 at 2:01:03 pm

[andy patterson] "Any cheap Apple laptop running FCPX will allow you to edit h.246/mpeg4/AVCHD with ease using FCPX. The same cannot be said about Premiere Pro. Why is that you ask? Because FCPX uses Intel's Quick Sync."
Well that's the point isn't it? I don't need a beefy Mac to edit with FCPX but I do need a beefy PC to edit with PPro. 😃
[andy patterson] "Some FCPX user think if you get a $4,500.00 Mac Pro the performance gap between FCPX and Premiere Pro will widen. That is not the case. Do you know why?"
I'm pretty sure that FCP X takes full advantage of the D300-D700 dual GPU's in the current Mac Pro and it will do the same with the Vega 56 in the iMac Pro. We will have to wait and see. I would be very interested in those results. The problem is that Adobe uses the proprietary NVIDIA CUDA API instead of the open source OpenCL API and Apple and FCP X uses OpenCL which works better with ATI cards. So yea, Adobe works better on a PC unless you bought a PC with an ATI card, or you put an NVIDIA card in your 2010 Mac Pro (I realize you can't do this with the 2013 Mac Pros). This is an Adobe problem which I don't have because I use FCP X.

Apple's problem is that they don't upgrade their Pro desktops every year and every year faster GPU's come out and, as you pointed out, a PC allows you to take advantage of these faster GPU's immediately. So Apple has completely dropped the ball with the Mac Pro 2013 not so much that it's not expandable, but because they didn't expand it themselves every year. So I can't argue with you there. Hopefully they have learned a lesson and will make the next Mac Pro expandable again.

That video is funny. It's basically saying that a brand new 10-core PC is faster than a 5 year old mid-range Mac Pro (he had a 6-core D500 not the 12-core D700). Well Duh! A brand new PC is faster than a 5 year old PC too! The Mac Pro wasn't actually that much slower considering it's age and mid-range specs.

Apple let their Pro technology languish on the shelf. You can't compare a modern PC to a modern Mac Pro because there are no modern Mac Pros! The newest Mac Pro is almost 5 years old now which is ancient in computer years. However, I am editing with a 2010 Mac Pro 12-Core which is almost 8 years old and I would never edit with an 8 year old PC. They just don't hold up that well and they slow down terribly over time because the Windows registry. I use to reformat my PC every 3 years to gain performance back. I don't have that problem with macOS and I am quite happy not to have to worry about that anymore. Same is true for laptops. Even the "gold standard" Lenovo/IBM Thinkpad laptops start rattling and come unhinged after a few years but I have a 7 year old 2011 MacBook Pro that is still solid as the day I bought it. I put an SSD in it and it's like a new Mac and shows no sign of stopping.

So yes, at any point in time, if you want the fastest editing computer, and Apple hasn't refreshed the Mac Pro line in a while, a PC will be faster but only because it can use newer technology. But as you pointed out, I can get FCP X to work great on a midrange Mac so why waste money on a beefy PC when you don't have to? I see lots of PC people here on the COW asking what CPU and GPU to buy so that they can edit 4K on their PC and then I see people with an 27" iMac Retina 5K editing 4K like butter and I wonder why anyone would want to use a Windows PC in the first place when they can just buy a system that works with 4K right out-of-the-box?

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasstsoftware.com



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andy patterson
Re: iPad Pro Vs Surface Pro
on Dec 24, 2017 at 2:45:45 pm

[John Rofrano] " [andy patterson] "Any cheap Apple laptop running FCPX will allow you to edit h.246/mpeg4/AVCHD with ease using FCPX. The same cannot be said about Premiere Pro. Why is that you ask? Because FCPX uses Intel's Quick Sync."

Well that's the point isn't it? I don't need a beefy Mac to edit with FCPX but I do need a beefy PC to edit with PPro. 😃"


You don't need a beefy system to edit using Premiere Pro. A mediocre Desktop PC will work just fine.


[John Rofrano] "I'm pretty sure that FCP X takes full advantage of the D300-D700 dual GPU's in the current Mac Pro and it will do the same with the Vega 56 in the iMac Pro. We will have to wait and see. I would be very interested in those results."

I am sure FCPX will work great with the Vega GPU but Volta will be here soon.



[John Rofrano] "The problem is that Adobe uses the proprietary NVIDIA CUDA API instead of the open source OpenCL API and Apple and FCP X uses OpenCL which works better with ATI cards. So yea, Adobe works better on a PC unless you bought a PC with an ATI card, or you put an NVIDIA card in your 2010 Mac Pro (I realize you can't do this with the 2013 Mac Pros). This is an Adobe problem which I don't have because I use FCP X."

You need to do your research. Premiere Pro works with Open CL and ATI GPUs just fine. Adobe writes code for both CUDA and Open CL. Apple does not. You must call a spade a spade. Adobe has to also worry about Mac and PC platforms.



[John Rofrano] "The newest Mac Pro is almost 5 years old now which is ancient in computer years. However, I am editing with a 2010 Mac Pro 12-Core which is almost 8 years old and I would never edit with an 8 year old PC"

Mac and PCs use third party hardware. Your 8 core CPU from 8 years ago is the same CPU a PC would have but generic ATX parts cost less and can be replaced and upgraded very easy.



[John Rofrano] "They just don't hold up that well and they slow down terribly over time because the Windows registry."

That has not happened to me.


[John Rofrano] "Same is true for laptops. Even the "gold standard" Lenovo/IBM Thinkpad laptops start rattling and come unhinged after a few years but I have a 7 year old 2011 MacBook Pro that is still solid as the day I bought it. I put an SSD in it and it's like a new Mac and shows no sign of stopping."

My laptops never fell apart.


[John Rofrano] "So yes, at any point in time, if you want the fastest editing computer, and Apple hasn't refreshed the Mac Pro line in a while, a PC will be faster but only because it can use newer technology."

It is the cost of the product and upgrade-able components that must be considered.


[John Rofrano] " But as you pointed out, I can get FCP X to work great on a midrange Mac so why waste money on a beefy PC when you don't have to?"

Actually Premiere Pro will be very speedy on a mediocre $950.00 Desktop PC. FCPX only has an advantage when using laptops and editing h.264. Actually an iMac will edit h.264 better than a Mac Pro.



[John Rofrano] " I see lots of PC people here on the COW asking what CPU and GPU to buy so that they can edit 4K on their PC and then I see people with an 27" iMac Retina 5K editing 4K like butter and I wonder why anyone would want to use a Windows PC in the first place when they can just buy a system that works with 4K right out-of-the-box?"

They asks those types of question because they don't know. Having said that people do ask questions about editing 4K with the iMacs. Editing 4K is very easy on a $950.00 PC but editing full 4K Red One R3D files might require a $1,200.00 system. If you want to edit 8K at full resolution it might cost $8,500.00. Keep in mind the iMac user must get an external RAID to do so but the PC user just has to buy 4 or 5 hard drives and RAID them.

No one is saying the Apple products don't work but some Apple users would like more options.


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greg janza
Re: iPad Pro Vs Surface Pro
on Dec 24, 2017 at 4:05:55 pm

[John Rofrano] "The first part of that video attempts to show that the MacBook Pro 2016 is inferior to the Dell XPS but all it really shows is that Premiere runs better on Windows than a Mac because when you use FCP X it blows Premiere Pro out of the water on the same hardware."

That video is quite interesting and the results of Premiere between mac and a PC are what I'd expect. The speed difference with FCPX is also quite significant in that scenario. However, the decision on which edit system to use is not solely based on speed test results.

I'm often sent projects that have been initially organized by an assistant editor. I also receive projects that will be recuts of a previously finished video. In addition, I work on projects that will eventually get added to the projects folder at an in-house media department so that down the road they can make changes or do recuts.

Within my client base, the edit system used in these scenarios is always Adobe Premiere. If however, an editor has full autonomy with his or her projects then I would think FCPX would be a viable option.


[John Rofrano] "My experience is that Windows is hugely inferior to macOS in a lot of ways."

Once you figure out which OS has the best workflow options for your own needs then the differences between the two become non-issues. I spent 25 years on Macs and now I'm on a PC and I miss nothing about OSX so it's all relative.

I Hate Television. I Hate It As Much As Peanuts. But I Can’t Stop Eating Peanuts.
- Orson Welles


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andy patterson
Re: iPad Pro Vs Surface Pro
on Dec 17, 2017 at 11:10:04 am

[John Rofrano] "You should know that these are two completely different beasts. The iPad Pro is a tablet with a user interface designed from the ground up for a touch based user experience which is very "Mac-like" in the way it behaves. The Surface Pro is basically a Windows 10 laptop with a touch screen and detachable keyboard. It runs the Windows desktop which is IMHO, a horrible interface for a tablet since it was designed to be used with a mouse. Very clunky and not the smooth experience of the iPad at all."

That is incorrect. I am very surprized how many people did not recieve the memo. Window 10 has the Metro Mobile Mode and the Desktop Mode. Windows tablets can use the Core i7 CPUs. Having said that the Metro Mode cannot be all that bad considering the iPad copied some of the features of the Windows 8 Metro Mode. If Apple users like touch screen devices (like the iPad) but also like to run 64 bit OS X programs Apple doesn't make it easy. Apple users must use a mobile OS and a desktop OS to make the Apple ecosystem work. Bad mouthing Windows 10 will not change the facts. I would not want MS to force the user to use two separate operating systems and two different programs depending one what device I am using.


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John Rofrano
Re: iPad Pro Vs Surface Pro
on Dec 20, 2017 at 4:36:28 am

[andy patterson] "I would not want MS to force the user to use two separate operating systems and two different programs depending one what device I am using."
I restfully disagree. 😉 Trying to use an application designed for a mouse and keyboard on a touch device is suboptimal at best an unworkable at worst. Apple understand this... Microsoft does not. I love my iPad Pro for what it is and I love my Mac desktop for what it is and I don't want them to ever behave the same because I use them for completely different purposes and I embrace that they are finally tuned for those purposes and not a generic compromise.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasstsoftware.com



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andy patterson
Re: iPad Pro Vs Surface Pro
on Dec 20, 2017 at 6:04:47 am

[John Rofrano] "I restfully disagree. 😉 Trying to use an application designed for a mouse and keyboard on a touch device is suboptimal at best an unworkable at worst. Apple understand this... Microsoft does not."

You are confused. You don't have to use the metro mode (touch Screen) mode exclusively nor should you. You can switch to desktop mode when you have a mouse and keyboard connected. In fact you can connect the Surface Pro up to a 40" 4K monitor if you want and use Adobe Premiere Pro with the mouse and keyboard. Applications designed for mouse and keyboard will work the exact same on the Surface Pro as my Custom Built desktop PC.



[John Rofrano] "I love my iPad Pro for what it is and I love my Mac desktop for what it is and I don't want them to ever behave the same because I use them for completely different purposes and I embrace that they are finally tuned for those purposes and not a generic compromise."

You are confused again. There is no generic compromise. Windows 10 has the Metro Mode or tablet mode that will easily compete with iOS. Windows 10 also has the Desktop Mode that easily competes with OS X. Keep in mind iOS copied a few things from the MS Metro Mode. I don't doubt in another 3-4 years Apple will finally have one OS that does it all. You will be able to draw using your iPad but at the same time if you connect a keyboard and mouse you will be able to use FCPX. You will not need two separate devices. We PC user will have to listen to all the hoopla when it happens despite the fact Apple's OS X is 5 years behind the times in a mobile world of hand held devices.


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Steve Connor
Re: iPad Pro Vs Surface Pro
on Dec 21, 2017 at 2:35:59 pm

[John Rofrano] "I restfully disagree. 😉 Trying to use an application designed for a mouse and keyboard on a touch device is suboptimal at best an unworkable at worst. Apple understand this... Microsoft does not. I love my iPad Pro for what it is and I love my Mac desktop for what it is and I don't want them to ever behave the same because I use them for completely different purposes and I embrace that they are finally tuned for those purposes and not a generic compromise.
"


I agree, I know a lot of creatives and not one of them uses MS Windows as a touch interface, the unified OS is great in theory but so far a non-starter in practice, that's not to say it won't happen of course.

"Traditional NLEs have timelines. FCPX has storylines" W.Soyka


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andy patterson
Re: iPad Pro Vs Surface Pro
on Dec 22, 2017 at 1:58:59 am

[Steve Connor] "I agree, I know a lot of creatives and not one of them uses MS Windows as a touch interface, the unified OS is great in theory but so far a non-starter in practice, that's not to say it won't happen of course."

Just because you don't know anyone using the Surface Pro or Surface Studio does no mean people are not using them. There are Mac users that like the Surface Studio but have said they cannot afford to by one. If the Surface Studio was $2,500.00 I don't doubt you would end up knowing someone who uses it. I don't see people saying the interaction of the Surface Studio is horrible. In fact I see just the opposite. Having said that can you please post a video of anyone saying that the iMac offers a much better way to integrate with graphic design programs than the Surface Studio. You kind of sort of maybe have to do that for you comment that to be valid that Windows 10's unified OS is worse than OS X for graphic designers. I will be patiently waiting for such a video link. Until then you can check out the links below.













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Tom Sefton
Re: iPad Pro Vs Surface Pro
on Dec 22, 2017 at 7:47:32 am

Posting video links isn’t the argument stopping win for crying out loud.

iMacs are used globally for desktop design for the print industry. The surface is cute and functions well, but show me 100 firms that design for print and web, and I’ll show you 100 iMacs.

Co-owner at Pollen Studio
http://www.pollenstudio.co.uk


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andy patterson
Re: iPad Pro Vs Surface Pro
on Dec 23, 2017 at 4:11:54 am

[Tom Sefton] "iMacs are used globally for desktop design for the print industry."

That is incorrect.


[Tom Sefton] "The surface is cute and functions well, but show me 100 firms that design for print and web, and I’ll show you 100 iMacs."

And I will show you 100 PCs. Actually there are some print shops that are windows only. I have never seen one that was Mac only. I am sure they are out there but to act as though it is exclusively for Mac is incorrect. No one is saying Macs are not used. What is being said is that the Surface Studio allows for an interaction between the user and PC that had not been there previously. Are they saying that about the iMac Pro? Learn to accept reality.


[Tom Sefton] "Posting video links isn’t the argument stopping win for crying out loud."

?


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Carmi Weinzweig
Re: iPad Pro Vs Surface Pro
on Dec 17, 2017 at 5:19:40 am

[kingsley asumadu] "I need your advice on my next purchase, basically I'm looking to get a tablet (iPad Pro or the latest surface pro). My goal is to be able to use it to create content with Adobe cc in conjunction with my iMac."

To answer this, we really have to understand what you mean by "in conjunction with my iMac". AeroPad and other apps like it enable one to use the iPad (or iPad Pro) as a display/input device for a Mac. Several of our designers have dropped their Cintiqs in favor of 12" iPad Pros and Apple Pencils.

If, on the other hand, you want to work directly on the iPad, you need to decide if the Adobe CC companion apps will fill your needs. As has been mentioned, the primary CC apps do not currently run native on the iPad. Illustrator and Photoshop both have good companion apps that provide quite a lot of functionality, and there are good non-Adobe competitors for them. I do not think many of the other CC apps have great companions (other than Prelude live logger as a companion to Premiere Pro during production).


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kingsley asumadu
Re: iPad Pro Vs Surface Pro
on Dec 19, 2017 at 11:13:43 pm

Thanks Cami for the explanation, just one thing though, if I use the companion apps to create files will I be able to open those files in the cc applications on my iMac?

Thanks,
Kingsley.


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Lance Bachelder
Re: iPad Pro Vs Surface Pro
on Dec 18, 2017 at 7:10:19 pm

If you want to run the same Adobe apps on both machines the Surface is the only option - iPad is iOS and can't run anything other than Lightroom.

You can use your iCloud account to easily move your Adobe projects back and forth from iMac to Surface. I do this with my PC workstation and MacBook Pro. I maintain the same font library and brush library on both so design and Photoshop are the same.

You can also buy MacDrive for your Surface so you can move drives back and forth and use normally on both.

Really depends on what you want to do on each machine but you can't compare the iPad Pro to a Surface Pro - we have both and they're both great but only the Surface will allow you to use real apps from Adobe etc.

It was at a Vegas premiere that I resolved to become an avid FCPX user.

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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kingsley asumadu
Re: iPad Pro Vs Surface Pro
on Dec 19, 2017 at 11:17:42 pm

Thanks Lance for the advice,
I was having headache trying to make a decision.

Thanks,
Kingsley.


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