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Larry Jordan begins knocking loudly on Apple's door.

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Aindreas Gallagher
Larry Jordan begins knocking loudly on Apple's door.
on Jul 9, 2011 at 2:41:16 pm

As smug and self regarding as Apple are, Jordan's growing horror can be no great PR delight for them.

http://www.larryjordan.biz/app_bin/wordpress/archives/1544

The shiny Apple has worms growing in it, breaking the skin.
That's not a bad meme really.


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Eben Abbaan
Re: Larry Jordan begins knocking loudly on Apple's door.
on Jul 9, 2011 at 4:43:52 pm

FCP X haters ----> mad at apple

my psycho ex ---> mad at me


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Larry Jordan begins knocking loudly on Apple's door.
on Jul 9, 2011 at 4:56:51 pm

[Eben Abbaan] "FCP X haters ----> mad at apple

my psycho ex ---> mad at me"


So, is your implication that anyone who, unlike you, fails to appreciate FCP X is a psycho?

And, are you also suggesting the same about Larry Jordan, who has risked everything by questioning Apple even after being given the proverbial keys to the kingdom?

If so, that might tend to cast some doubt about you and it would imply that your ex might not be the psycho.


David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new tutorial: Prepare for a seamless transition to FCP X and OS X Lion
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/FCP-10-MAC-Lion/1

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


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Chris Harlan
Re: Larry Jordan begins knocking loudly on Apple's door.
on Jul 9, 2011 at 5:00:39 pm

So Eben, what does this make you? the "leave Brittany alone!" guy of X users?


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Michael Largé
Re: Larry Jordan begins knocking loudly on Apple's door.
on Jul 9, 2011 at 5:25:42 pm

[Eben Abbaan] "FCP X haters ----> mad at apple

my psycho ex ---> mad at me"


The real question is, was your ex a psychotic before or after she dated you? ;)

I'm a FCPX supporter but a great deal of editors have good reason to be furious with Apple for the way they've handled this whole affair. Are there some who are simply resistant to change? Of course, but you're going to find that in any industry. However, there are others with legitimate gripes.


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Michael Largé
Re: Larry Jordan begins knocking loudly on Apple's door.
on Jul 9, 2011 at 4:48:41 pm

Larry has been singing quite a different tune than the one he sang on release day.


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Larry Jordan begins knocking loudly on Apple's door.
on Jul 9, 2011 at 5:08:28 pm

[Michael Largé] "Larry has been singing quite a different tune than the one he sang on release day."

No one told Larry that FCS 3 was going be EOL on the same day either. Nor did Larry know that what they showed him in February would be little changed from what they released to the buying public on June 21st at a cost of $300.

Integrity is everything, and I have say, Larry Jordon has proven to me that he personifies it.

There just aren't many people in the world who receive "the keys to the kingdom" who would be willing to risk the power and privilege that affords them for any reason, whatever it might be. Larry knows the risks and knows how very high the stakes are, yet he has proven that he's willing risk it all, by doing the right thing.

The outcome of this situation is far from certain, however I assure you all, Larry's willingness to standup for FCP and for all of us, has more potential to effect a positive outcome than anything I've seen.

And, if Steve Jobs is the standup guy he wants us to believe he is, he can't help but recognize Larry's courage, and at least begin to start asking some tough questions of those who assured him this was gonna be a cakewalk.


David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new tutorial: Prepare for a seamless transition to FCP X and OS X Lion
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/FCP-10-MAC-Lion/1

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


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Michael Largé
Re: Larry Jordan begins knocking loudly on Apple's door.
on Jul 9, 2011 at 5:21:01 pm

David,

My post wasn't meant to be a criticism of Larry. Simply an observation that on release day, while he pointed out the negatives of FCPX, he was clearly more positive about it than he is now. I, for one, am glad he's changed his tune. If anyone can get Apple to listen, it's him. Though now that he's so critical of it, and the company, will he fall out of their good graces?


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Eben Abbaan
Re: Larry Jordan begins knocking loudly on Apple's door.
on Jul 9, 2011 at 5:36:05 pm

I'm actually turning down invitations to go out at night because I have to spend time learning to edit in FCP X.

Ironically I am spending my nights with Larry, his videos on my laptop while I'm in FCP X on my desktop.

He knows I love him.


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Gustavo Bermudas
Re: Larry Jordan begins knocking loudly on Apple's door.
on Jul 9, 2011 at 6:51:40 pm

I applaud Larry's integrity, but also, his field is teaching, so what does to your reputation when suddenly instead of training for professional apps, now you're training for toy apps?
His career shouldn't depend on Apple, like any of us...


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Chris Harlan
Re: Larry Jordan begins knocking loudly on Apple's door.
on Jul 10, 2011 at 1:29:56 am

Agreed. My respect for Larry--which was sizable to begin with--has grown much deeper through this whole event. He has much at risk, and has been in a very difficult situation. And yet, his behavior has been exemplary. Cool dude.


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Richard Allen
Re: Larry Jordan begins knocking loudly on Apple's door.
on Jul 9, 2011 at 8:10:05 pm

Don't all the old timers feel a little used? I remember when FinalCut first came out and lead the mass exodus away from AVID's markert domanice (helped by DV,HDV and the likes).

"...a $50,000 editor for about $1,000..."

Remeber the ads.

Once they helped shake up the world they could say they where the professionals choice. With MicroSoft focused on the general consumer (quantity vs quality), the higher end consumer started to sniff around Apple for their needs. Now with the world of, fast cheap content the high end and mid level Video Consumer, are the focus of Apple. They walk away with the title of "Video Professionals 1st Choice" (rightfully earned), while dumping the Video Professional support. They abondaon the future RD and support efforts to mantain the loyalty of the professional base, while gainning the bigger (and expanding) base through marketing and price.

I personally think it's a savy business move but horrible PR move that will come to haunt them.

However I think any efforts to convenice them to change their minds may fall on deaf ears (even if it's a stratigic loss of hearing).

Then again maybe Apple's trimming fat for some unknown reason. Maybe they have plans to release some "Ultimate edition"? Maybe they're going cheap through and through no matter what?


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Liam Hall
Re: Larry Jordan begins knocking loudly on Apple's door.
on Jul 9, 2011 at 8:39:56 pm

I think Larry Jordan speaks a lot of sense. In his latest blog he writes:


"I would also suggest that many of us would benefit by taking a deep breath and giving Apple a chance to live up to their promises for the program.

Final Cut Studio (3) still works.

It took Avid, Adobe, and Apple many years to evolve their programs to their current feature set. I’m willing to give Apple a few months to get their act together and fix what’s broken with FCP X.

I’m going to stay with Final Cut Pro for a while. Work at learning the new version. Give feedback to Apple on what they need to do to improve things. And share what I learn with you.

Final Cut Pro X has a lot of exciting potential – but, for many of us, that potential is not yet realized."


That is exactly where I'm at with FCPX. I wont judge the software based on the shambolic product launch, but the clock is ticking and judgement day is fast approaching...


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Richard Allen
Re: Larry Jordan begins knocking loudly on Apple's door.
on Jul 9, 2011 at 9:12:21 pm

I guess that's one way of looking at it.

I think some guys just don't know when their being dumped or fired.

I give you the "Silent Breakup"

Apple: "We got a great new package"

Video Pros: "Great, hope it's 64bit upgrades"

Apple: "And then some"

Video Pros: "Well let's have it"

Apple: "Here you go...Look at what you get"(pointing to box)

Video Pros: OK... (looking at box in hand) where's the support for over $100,000 worth of gear.

Apple: No,no,no... This is new, and at a lower price you'll love it

Video Pros: Hey!...(clicking on keyboard vehemently) I can't open any of my old files

Apple: (Smile)

Video Pros: (Pulling Apple to the side, off screen) We need to talk...NOW!

(Slow Emotional Music up)
(Fade to Black)


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Larry Jordan begins knocking loudly on Apple's door.
on Jul 10, 2011 at 3:45:03 am

apple aren't in their health anymore. It sounds weird to say this, everything seems like fire of the gods, but jobs is drifting away, and apple simply *is* Jobs.
His absence break after john scully definitively proves it. Without him there is not a company known as Apple. Jobs looked at the touchscreen tests and simply said - 'this can be a phone'.
That's gone. that was the last jobs insight.
Tim Cook is a manager, phil schiller is phil schiller, and Jony Ives is running out of braun. apple is running out of steam. Once Steve Jobs disengages we're going to see a very weird repeat of the middle management clawing its way to the top and realising that there's nothing there - there is only the room where Steve Jobs used to be.

There's nothing to fix here, they've completely wrecked their editing application for stupid reasons applying models they thought were sound, about nuking and expanding the software market.

they were wrong. the market sector they have defined is a smoking mess - granted we have the likes of chris kenny answering every email ever written telling us all that we have fantastical clip database linked local relationships in three dimensions unconstrained by moronic linear tracks that go from left to right, because who ever needed that...

But still - FCPX is a godawful mess.


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Andrew Richards
Re: Larry Jordan begins knocking loudly on Apple's door.
on Jul 10, 2011 at 2:36:13 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "Jobs looked at the touchscreen tests and simply said - 'this can be a phone'.
That's gone. that was the last jobs insight.
Tim Cook is a manager, phil schiller is phil schiller, and Jony Ives is running out of braun. apple is running out of steam. Once Steve Jobs disengages we're going to see a very weird repeat of the middle management clawing its way to the top and realising that there's nothing there - there is only the room where Steve Jobs used to be. "


I understand your argument to be that this whole FCP debacle would never happen with Steve Jobs fully engaged. I say:

Either the conventional wisdom around here about Apple not caring about the pro market because they don't need it in the face of massive iOS device sales is true, and that goes all the way to the top, or it isn't. Apple started down the path to gutting FCP at least as far back as 2008, and if Jobs gets credit for all of the iPhone and iPad's success during that same time, he is also behind FCP's sea change.

Apple has had a rocky 12 months when it comes to PR (Antenna-gate, Location-gate, this whole mess). But what hasn't happened is suffering sales. There is still a shipping delay on iPad 2 orders since they can't keep them in stock. The 3G iPhone 4 is over a year old and is still the top selling smartphone in a 4G world. If Apple is showing signs of losing its rudder, it isn't showing up where it counts yet.

Either this whole FCP apocalypse is a direct outcome of Apple no longer needing or caring about the pro market and everything is going according to plan, or this is a taste of what Apple will look like post-Jobs. It can't be both. If this outcome is intentional and anticipated (and I say it is), it was ultimately Steve's decision.

Best,
Andy


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Larry Jordan begins knocking loudly on Apple's door.
on Jul 10, 2011 at 8:01:14 pm

well, there's still a built in lag on roll out - we'll know better in eighteen months. this thing is a total mess - the application, the execution, the PR, everything. This is just a shambles - antennagate really wasn't and also the product was ridiculously strong.

FCPX is a mess - the question would be is it a one off, or does it indicate intellectual and structural rot inside apple. Ultimately I don't believe there is an apple without Jobs, and he's not really there anymore, not in the way that he was during the last decade where he drove the entire company by will.

The last ten years was camelot. Apple isn't built to last - its a single man's vision. That can't outlast the man. I would wager heavily that Apple will have stumbled repeatedly and faded completely by the end of this decade.


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Richard Allen
Re: Larry Jordan begins knocking loudly on Apple's door.
on Jul 11, 2011 at 1:15:47 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "The last ten years was camelot. Apple isn't built to last - its a single man's vision. That can't outlast the man. I would wager heavily that Apple will have stumbled repeatedly and faded completely by the end of this decade."

Wow, That's a pretty doom and gloom prospective.

I think it's like a gaming system. They make a rock solid system, then sell games to play on that system. If you make games that only the "Gamers" can get good at or even know how to install, you limit your market. If you dumb it down and make it cheaper, you potenially
sell to more people.

These days people are looking at Apple as being more simple and solid. They're even willing to pay a little more for it at times. To look down the road and see what will change that?...IDK

I think the ProVideo world just needs to look for an application that runs on a solid system, cause Apple is out of the ProSoftware Biz. I don't think they'er out of biz by a long shot.


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Jim Giberti
Re: Larry Jordan begins knocking loudly on Apple's door.
on Jul 9, 2011 at 8:43:17 pm

Although I've monitored the Cow for a long time I just joined with the launch of X because I thought (and still do) that it would be the best place to engage in the process of transition.

First: I was enthusiastic about the new model as I had learned about it from the SM and Larry Jordan and said so in the few posts I wrote when it first broke.

I probably fall right into the middle of this debate and demographic. I own a small but fairly high profile creative company. We don't have the needs of a lot of the dedicated colorists or edit houses as we do it all from our own studios. But that still means doing audio post in our audio room, working daily with the art dept with PSDs for animation and motion graphics etc. and a lot of our work is broadcast TV spots so properly calibrated broadcast monitors are a must.

At the same time we moved to all digital acquisition so we're a prime target of the new X philosophy and I have to admit I really like the idea of not round tripping to Color as we do our own grading.

So like i said, we're pretty much right in the middle of all of this and as the president and creative director I deal with it all.

Here's my take after two weeks of immersion in it.
I'm just finishing about two months of non stop PS design work on our new website, sometimes 18 hours a day and haven't seen the edit suite for all that time.
I started putting the broadcast and film reels together for the site and preparing the summers spot production. FCP7 felt like an old friend. Not a moment was lost. I was juggling footage from Olympic films from a few years ago shot in one medium, spots from another medium...you get the picture.

I simply could not have done my job as a small firm using X.
And if I could have, I really didn't want to take the little time I have finishing the site and scrambling to produce a dozen new broadcast projects to learn an entire new paradigm.

FCP7 works really well.
What happened to the old axiom - if it ain't broke, don't fix it?
That's a really good axiom.

A 64 bit version of FCP 8 integrating Color and real audio sweetening/mixing would have been brilliant...even game changing for Apple. Honestly, it's what I was very hopeful of seeing.

This new paradigm is what we've always called a "camel" in the ad business - that is the answer to the question: "what do you call a race horse designed by committee"

Apparently it wasn't enough for this committee to change how we all love to edit, but to audio mixing as well (I'm still seeing real potential in the internal grading approach).

Obviously I'm not touching on all the left outs that left out the entire professional post industry - I'm going to give Apple some credit that their probably scrambling like they never imagined to fix those.

But frankly, as a creative guy first who became a tech guy over the last 20 years largely following Apples lead and using hundreds of their products, I simply have to ask (and as a serious investor have a right to) - what were you people thinking?


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Jim Giberti
Re: Larry Jordan begins knocking loudly on Apple's door.
on Jul 9, 2011 at 9:02:54 pm

And a quick reply to myself.

As someone in the communications biz: the folks paid to communicate at Apple showed and are showing a lack of skill that would get them fired from my little shop.

And not just for arrogance and ignorance regarding their customer base and reputation but for screwing up what is probably a nice little program going forward.

An intelligent and reparative move would be to announce that, as of monday, FCP 7 was alive and well and to announce the formation of a team that was hard at work on FCP 8, with an admission of missing the mark on this. A little humility is as good for a corporation as it is for an individual.

They would show that they are both human and appreciative of their base.

I'm not a programmer and have no idea of hat it would take from that perspective, but I do know they could more than afford to do something "big" regarding this situation and a big visionary company should show that it knows how to fix a vision that they didn't get right

Again the problem is not with X, but with abandoning a system that is so entwined and appreciated worldwide that it made no sense to kick it into the gutter.

If down the line their vision for FCP X is seen as the evolution of an industry and art then we'll all move there as it becomes obvious, just like so many of us moved form Avids and Media 100s a decade ago.


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Richard Allen
Re: Larry Jordan begins knocking loudly on Apple's door.
on Jul 9, 2011 at 9:16:13 pm

[Jim Giberti] "If down the line their vision for FCP X is seen as the evolution of an industry and art then we'll all move there as it becomes obvious, just like so many of us moved form Avids and Media 100s a decade ago."

I think your showing your age...Try 12 years ago :-) (J/K)


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Jim Giberti
Re: Larry Jordan begins knocking loudly on Apple's door.
on Jul 9, 2011 at 10:29:20 pm

You mean showing my youth :)

Yeah we started with FCP1 and as I said in an early post, literally used two $40k Media 100 systems as doorstops when we moved into our new facilities on the mountain.
Well before that, to my knowledge, we were one of the first to adopt the first Premiere (on a Quadra 840 AV I think) to do a national project. it was an adventure and I wanted to prove a point at the time.

I've always had a pretty good compass with these things, from cameras to audio, design and film suites. That compass doesn't tell me that this is a forward direction right now. Different yes, but not forward.


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Johnny Saunderson
Re: Larry Jordan begins knocking loudly on Apple's door.
on Jul 11, 2011 at 4:25:38 pm

Mr Jim Giberti has hit the nail on the head with that one. Well done! I am seriously looking at Adobe Premiere now... I can't believe I'm thinking that way, but they ain't stupid: a half price tempter to pull the great disillusioned masses who have indeed invested thousands down the years in the beloved rock that was Final Cut Pro.
I have to say also, it's perhaps no accident that the only people who praise FCP X are non professionals. So please, Apple... how's about dropping the "Pro" tag on your latest gaff, just as a show of respect to the genuine pros who stuck by you and defended you to the last over the last ten years?


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