FORUMS: list search recent posts

Premiere Pro Workspaces

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro X Debates

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Simon Ubsdell
Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 18, 2017 at 5:03:11 pm

Another great article from Oliver that takes us behind the scenes of his preferred custom layouts for Premiere Pro:

https://digitalfilms.wordpress.com/2017/08/17/customize-premiere-pro-with-w...

"There are certainly plenty of other ways you can configure a workspace to suit your style. Some Premiere Pro editors like to use the secondary screen to display the timeline panel fullscreen. Or maybe use it to spread out their audio track mixer. Hence the beauty of Adobe’s design – you can make it as minimal or complex as you like. There is no right or wrong approach – simply whatever works to improve your editing efficiency."

Simon Ubsdell
tokyo productions
hawaiki


Return to posts index

andy patterson
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 18, 2017 at 7:44:08 pm

I stated I was going to do a demo about the Premiere Pro's GUI a couple of weeks ago. I just have not had time. How Oliver set up his GUI almost exactly like I did it (dual monitors). I was going to use the stock video clips from the Adobe competition just like Oliver did. They only thing I sometimes do his have two or even three bins panels open at the same time although all docked together. I also at times put the scopes on a separate monitor like oliver. I have always said the GUI of Premiere Pro rocks. I still plan on doing a GUI tutorial but the screen shots look nice. The only thing a GUI tutorial will ad is the use of the tilde key function.


Return to posts index

Scott Witthaus
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 18, 2017 at 8:31:27 pm

Lipstick on a pig! 😉

Just kidding! This is the Premiere Debate Forum, right?

Scott Witthaus
Owner, 1708 Inc./Editorial
Managing Partner, Low Country Creative LLC
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


Return to posts index


Simon Ubsdell
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 18, 2017 at 8:36:41 pm

[Scott Witthaus] "This is the Premiere Debate Forum, right?"

Maybe Tim will tell me I'm wrong but I've long thought of this as the "Let's Talk About Interesting Stuff" forum.

Anyway, isn't the FCP X Debate officially over?

;-)

Simon Ubsdell
tokyo productions
hawaiki


Return to posts index

Scott Witthaus
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 18, 2017 at 8:57:48 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] ""Let's Talk About Interesting Stuff""

A great name! Tim?

Or maybe "And Now for Something Completely Different Forum"

[Simon Ubsdell] "
Anyway, isn't the FCP X Debate officially over"


One would have thought....

Scott Witthaus
Owner, 1708 Inc./Editorial
Managing Partner, Low Country Creative LLC
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 18, 2017 at 8:48:03 pm

Scott,

Come on.

If you're promoting something - you go where the eyeballs are. You know that.

Heck - I managed to get ONE thread started that was ACTUALLY about FCP X - in the "Final Cut Pro Debates" forum this month.

Those of us who use it should count our blessings.

😊

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


Return to posts index


Oliver Peters
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 18, 2017 at 10:51:01 pm

[Bill Davis] "Heck - I managed to get ONE thread started that was ACTUALLY about FCP X - in the "Final Cut Pro Debates" forum this month."

Well... I did at least mention X in the post ☺

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

andy patterson
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 18, 2017 at 11:30:45 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Well... I did at least mention X in the post ☺"

And the fact that Premiere Pro has some bugs and flaws. I go back to the Premiere 6.5 days when the GUI looked like it was made by Fisher Price. Once Premiere Pro 1.0 was released I thought the GUI was so much better. I never made videos about Premiere Pro's bugs and flaws until the CC. I admit they a minor bugs and don't crash the system but they are annoying. Some have been fixed but not all. Having said that I have found some flaws and bugs with FCPX as well.


Return to posts index

Steve Connor
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 18, 2017 at 9:50:44 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "Another great article from Oliver that takes us behind the scenes of his preferred custom layouts for Premiere Pro:

https://digitalfilms.wordpress.com/2017/08/17/customize-premiere-pro-with-w.....

"There are certainly plenty of other ways you can configure a workspace to suit your style. Some Premiere Pro editors like to use the secondary screen to display the timeline panel fullscreen. Or maybe use it to spread out their audio track mixer. Hence the beauty of Adobe’s design – you can make it as minimal or complex as you like. There is no right or wrong approach – simply whatever works to improve your editing efficiency."
"


Well to be fair PPro's endlessly tabbed, twirldowned and tiny interface really NEEDS the ability to customise it ;)


Return to posts index


Oliver Peters
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 18, 2017 at 10:57:07 pm

Since you guys are feeling left out:

https://digitalfilms.wordpress.com/2014/02/14/fcp-x-screen-layouts/

https://digitalfilms.wordpress.com/2016/02/20/final-cut-pro-x-keyboard-tips...

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 19, 2017 at 12:04:02 am

Yeah, I should start posting over in the Premiere Forums about my edits and how much wickedly faster so many database driven operations and auditions and Roles exports makes repetitive work in X.

I'm sure it will be received in the spirit of open discussion and the free flow of ideas to help everyone improve.

And certainly not seen as any sort of crass X promotion.

😊

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


Return to posts index

Steve Connor
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 19, 2017 at 12:21:34 am
Last Edited By Steve Connor on Aug 19, 2017 at 12:29:50 am

[Bill Davis] "Yeah, I should start posting over in the Premiere Forums about my edits and how much wickedly faster so many database driven operations and auditions and Roles exports makes repetitive work in X.

I'm sure it will be received in the spirit of open discussion and the free flow of ideas to help everyone improve.

And certainly not seen as any sort of crass X promotion.
"


Sadly Bill, I think you may be the ONLY person left on here who imagines it's an FCPX only forum. There actually IS an FCPX only forum on here which I can't help noticing that you hardly ever post on?

Perhaps some of your excellent insight on FCPX would be warmly received there as well?

And if we're talking about crass promotion, I can't help noticing that every post of yours has a short ad for your product on your sig?


Return to posts index


Neil Goodman
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 19, 2017 at 2:17:55 am

Thanks Oliver,

This was extremely helpfull for me as I have been forced into using premiere at the shop Im working at the moment.

I was really struggling with the UI because it felt like I never had enough screen real estate to accommodate how I would setup a normal workspace in Avid. Im on dual 24 inch screens and I usually like to have my source records rather small, so my timeline can be most of the screen as I do alot of sound design usually, but I like my timeline and source/record on the same screen.

My standard - "do work" Avid timeline usually looks like this. Doesnt seem like I can get the right screen/ timeline ration PPro but Ive been playing around with some of your configs and i like the tabbed Source/Record Single Monitor setup you got going.

screenshot2012-11-09at12.28.02pm.png


Return to posts index

Neil Goodman
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 19, 2017 at 2:19:58 am

lets try that again



Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 19, 2017 at 2:26:27 pm

[Neil Goodman] "This was extremely helpfull for me as I have been forced into using premiere at the shop Im working at the moment. "

I'm glad it was useful.

[Neil Goodman] "My standard - "do work" Avid timeline usually looks like this."

If you go back to the original Avid set-up, or have spent any time with the full-blown (now gone) version of Xpress (not the software-only version), it was set up so that clips opened in floating windows, not in a source viewer. This preference still exists as an either/or setting in Media Composer. This actually allows you to work with a single floating record/program viewer in the UI. I don't see many Avid editors work that way, but it is an option. Just not as clean as with Premiere or FCPX.

But, as I stated in the blog, I don't work with one workspace. I have several configurations, depending on what I'm doing at any given time, just like Media Composer's workspaces.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index


Simon Ubsdell
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 19, 2017 at 2:44:05 pm

[Oliver Peters] "But, as I stated in the blog, I don't work with one workspace. I have several configurations, depending on what I'm doing at any given time, just like Media Composer's workspaces."

I think for me this was the most important takeaway from your blogpost. Having your own finely-tuned workspaces for particular tasks is a great way to work and I do think Premiere allows you more flexibility in this than other offerings. The approach is not new but it's been very well thought out so as to put the editor in control of what s/he wants to see or not see at any one time. To my mind it's the tabbed panels approach this offers the biggest benefit here.

I also find that swapping workspaces as the day progresses is a good way of refreshing the process - a very slight change of focus can help to give perspective or simply avoid staleness.

For me the attraction of the Adobe method is that I'm not having to succumb to anyone else's idea of how I should be editing. Other players (like Apple, but not only Apple) want to dictate terms - I'm sure someone will tell me these players know more about editing than I do, but I'm too old and cranky to want to hear anything about it.

Simon Ubsdell
tokyo productions
hawaiki


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 19, 2017 at 3:46:16 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "I do think Premiere allows you more flexibility in this than other offerings."

Sometimes this manifests itself in small ways. For instance, both Media Composer and Premiere Pro can display a two-up (source/program) viewer configuration. But in Premiere Pro, I can drag the dividing line between the two viewer panels so that I have a larger program window and a smaller source window. With MC, I'm locked into the same size displays. This is a small, but important feature that many editors use.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Herb Sevush
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 19, 2017 at 4:07:07 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] " Having your own finely-tuned workspaces for particular tasks is a great way to work"

Indeed.

I have 2 different systems, the first uses dual 24" screens, the other uses a single narrow Samsung 34" screen.

For the single screen system I have simply modified the the standard Ppro supplied layouts that sit at the top of the screen in a "workspace layout bar"- I switch between these 4 constantly during the day: Assembly which accentuates the media tabs, Editing accentuates the timeline, Color which focuses on the Color Panel and Scopes, and Audio which brings the Track Mixer to full focus.It's easy enough to modify each of the default layouts to allow for my own need for the multicam viewer at all points.

The dual screen layout is different, I tend to stay with one layout throughout the day, partly because the "workspace layout bar" gets hidden when going dual screen, and even though Ppro gives me the ability to change workspaces through keyboard shortcuts I find that I don't need it as much with all the screen real estate I have with this system. I also find that Ppro sometimes gets a little confused when handling dual screen layouts, or else I'm doing something weird when I customize them.

The customization is essential for me as I'm a finicky old grouch who wants everything to be just so, and I appreciate this aspect of working with Ppro.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 19, 2017 at 2:20:12 pm

[Steve Connor] "Sadly Bill, I think you may be the ONLY person left on here who imagines it's an FCPX only forum. There actually IS an FCPX only forum on here which I can't help noticing that you hardly ever post on?"

FWIW - There are product-specific (non-debate) forums for both FCPX and Premiere Pro. I posted my own link to this blog post in the Premiere Pro forum. Simon felt it was a good discussion point to post here as well, which is perfectly OK with me. I think here it opens up a broader discussion of customizing workspaces, not limited to Premiere Pro.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Steve Connor
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 19, 2017 at 2:32:53 pm

[Oliver Peters] "FWIW - There are product-specific (non-debate) forums for both FCPX and Premiere Pro. I"

Perhaps FCPX users are reluctant to start discussions on the FCPX forum because it used to be the Technique forum. The old Final Cut Pro forum used to be fantastic, great user discussions and problem solving.


Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 19, 2017 at 9:07:13 pm

[Steve Connor] "Perhaps FCPX users are reluctant to start discussions on the FCPX forum because it used to be the Technique forum. The old Final Cut Pro forum used to be fantastic, great user discussions and problem solving."

Nah, it's because we're all OLD news here.

When was the last time we had any influx of significant new voices?

When we started debating here, FCP X users were in the hundreds.

Now there are at least 2 million.

Yet this forum has basically the same 25 voices arguing over the same stuff, endlessly.

That means we've abysmally FAILED to interest any really significant number of the 1,999,975 other X editors out there that might be actively participating if they found the discussions here truly useful and informative.

I know I find WAY more interesting discussions about FCP X elsewhere on the web. A large chunk of those 2 million folks are active and engaged. Just not here.

And how can they be blamed for that?

They use X, they want to LEARN about X. But when they get here - that do they see? A page is dominated by Premiere and Resolve posts.

Would YOU stay and post in that situation?

I doubt I would.

Oh well.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


Return to posts index

Steve Connor
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 19, 2017 at 10:28:55 pm

[Bill Davis] "I know I find WAY more interesting discussions about FCP X elsewhere on the web. A large chunk of those 2 million folks are active and engaged. Just not here.
"


Could you share some of them, because the FB group and the other forums I've found tend to talk problem solving rather than the fascinating stuff that is discussed here in between the bickering

[Bill Davis] "Would YOU stay and post in that situation?
"


If I wanted to learn about the broader editing world then yes


Return to posts index

Neil Goodman
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 19, 2017 at 2:31:01 am

[Bill Davis] "I'm sure it will be received in the spirit of open discussion and the free flow of ideas to help everyone improve."

Of course it wouldn't, It's a Premiere Forum.

This is not a strictly FCPX forum, its a debate forum and one of the most informational and entertaining forums about NLE's period and there is one specifically for FCPX so Im not sure what the issue is?


Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 19, 2017 at 3:12:01 am

Then simple fix.

If this is to be a place of neutral NLE discussion - Petition Tim and/or Katheryn to Re-brand it as such - and just REMOVE those pesky words Final Cut Pro from the forum title.

Just be honest.

As long as SEARCH brings people interested in FCP X HERE - walls of posts that DO NOT even pretend to relate to X - weaken the forum brand, IMO.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


Return to posts index

Herb Sevush
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 19, 2017 at 3:47:41 pm

[Bill Davis] "If this is to be a place of neutral NLE discussion - Petition Tim and/or Katheryn to Re-brand it as such - and just REMOVE those pesky words Final Cut Pro from the forum title."

Why don't You do the petitioning if the forum title bothers you so much. This has been a frequent request over the years, as you well know. But the old "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" argument tends to prevail. To paraphrase Annie Hall, people come here for the eggs.

As for you posting about FCPX on the Ppro site - have at it. I'm sure Tim won't mind, especially if you stir up some traffic.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 19, 2017 at 3:20:57 am

[Neil Goodman] "This is not a strictly FCPX forum, its a debate forum and one of the most informational and entertaining forums about NLE's period and there is one specifically for FCPX so Im not sure what the issue is?"

Oh, EXCUSE me.

That "Final Cut Pro - the Debates" string of public-facing characters up there clearly confused me.

I didn't realize that clear communication is now expected to require a deep knowledge of forum history and tradition - well beyond what the ACTUAL English language can convey.

Maybe this will spread and people will become delighted to go into "The Taco Shop" and find a menu featuring mostly Lasagna?

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


Return to posts index

andy patterson
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 19, 2017 at 7:33:45 am

[Bill Davis] "
I didn't realize that clear communication is now expected to require a deep knowledge of forum history and tradition - well beyond what the ACTUAL English language can convey."


The forum is titled FCPX Debates. That means we debate the pros and cons of FCXP as opposed to worshiping FCPX. If you want them to start a forum called Lets All Worship FCPX then make a feature forum request.


[Bill Davis] "Maybe this will spread and people will become delighted to go into "The Taco Shop" and find a menu featuring mostly Lasagna?"

What should people expect if they went into a shop called Tacos and More? Should that shop serve only tacos or should they serve more?


Return to posts index

Andrew Kimery
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 19, 2017 at 8:01:04 am

[Bill Davis] "That "Final Cut Pro - the Debates" string of public-facing characters up there clearly confused me. "

Thanks for the article, Oliver. Wouldn't it be nice if X allowed such customizations?

Now the thread is squarely on topic.

[Bill Davis] "Maybe this will spread and people will become delighted to go into "The Taco Shop" and find a menu featuring mostly Lasagna?"

Said with a straight face on a cow-themed website which has nothing to do with animals in a discussion about a company called Apple that doesn't sell fruit and another company called Adobe that doesn't offer any earthen building materials.


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 19, 2017 at 2:31:16 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "Thanks for the article, Oliver. Wouldn't it be nice if X allowed such customizations? "

I completely agree. FCPX is very rigid. It works mostly, but only if you are willing to work within Apple's design. If you look at Color Finale or Chromatic, the developers have had to create a kludgy workaround with a floating window UI, just because FCPX's architecture does not allow for this sort of integration into the actual FCPX UI. Pretty ugly, if you ask me.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 19, 2017 at 2:27:41 pm

[Bill Davis] "Maybe this will spread and people will become delighted to go into "The Taco Shop" and find a menu featuring mostly Lasagna?"

I vote for a new name. The Taco Shop Debates!



- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 19, 2017 at 8:30:05 pm

[Oliver Peters] "I vote for a new name. The Taco Shop Debates!"

Brave of you to publicly come out so pro Mexican and anti-Italian. (fake political debate rim shot to be added here for emphasis) 😉

(secretly, I too give the nod to chips and salsa over bread sticks --- mostly)

Nobody HATE me for this, please.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


Return to posts index

Scott Witthaus
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 19, 2017 at 12:24:16 pm

[Bill Davis] "I should start posting over in the Premiere Forums"

I did post over on the adobe CC debate forum the other day, commenting on how lousy the upgrade process is (for me). It was a desolate place over there. Even Andy wasn't there! Only one person came to the "defense of the Adobe flag': Oliver!

Dude, you on the Adobe payroll now? 😉

Lets move these threads over there and see if we can rouse any Pr users out of their GUI-induced comas. 😉

(All in jest, of course...)

Scott Witthaus
Owner, 1708 Inc./Editorial
Managing Partner, Low Country Creative LLC
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


Return to posts index

Scott Witthaus
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 19, 2017 at 12:27:32 pm

Here is the link: https://forums.creativecow.net/creativeclouddebate

C'mon, let's go over there and debate more! ;-)

Scott Witthaus
Owner, 1708 Inc./Editorial
Managing Partner, Low Country Creative LLC
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


Return to posts index

Simon Ubsdell
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 19, 2017 at 1:43:23 pm

[Scott Witthaus] "(All in jest, of course...)"

I'd be fascinated to know how many more, or fewer, views would be generated if this forum were strictly limited to "on-topic" posts about FCP X.

Are hordes of people driven away, as perhaps Bill would contend, when they discover that there are topics discussed that don't directly relate to FCP X?

Or, contrariwise, do a significant number of people come to hear random chat about all sorts of entirely "off-topic" subjects?

Tim?

Simon Ubsdell
tokyo productions
hawaiki


Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 19, 2017 at 8:45:57 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "Are hordes of people driven away, as perhaps Bill would contend"

Nope.

People still will stop to watch a car crash no matter WHO's involved. It's just human nature to want to watch conflict, drama and strife. We're wired that way.

My objection is that it just happens that the conflict here was centered around a dismissive proposition that fundamentally questioned the value of ONE specific tool. (or NOT!)

Now, that's gone. But it IS still promoted as a specifically FCP X place. Titularly.

So filling it up with threads that have LITERALLY nothing to do with FCP X, but just trade on the long gone but vague "or not" thing for their justification - increasingly stretches things away from it's brand promise, IMO.

Again, I'm pleased to add to the original environment of vigorous debate and verbal smackdowns - real or imagined. I just don't want the SIGN on the building to say Oyster Bar - walk in and get a table and find that there's not a single Oyster to be found anywhere.

I get that exactly that happens with neighborhood bars and the "community" comes to understand that the NATURE of the bar and it's name are in conflict and nobody much cares. - And so the LOCALS still come.

BUT - EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO COMES LOOKING FOR OYSTERS has to decide to leave or stay if they don't find what the SIGN promises.

PLUS - this isn't JUST a "neighborhood" bar. It's a global portal that IMO should be for literally millions seeking knowledge of the thing that all those FCP X the metadata tags are directing them towards.

And at some point, it can become "bait and switch" to say it's an FCP X place - just one that's morphed into one with a minority of FCP X content because ALL the threads (like a few weeks back) are about Anything and Everything except FCP X.

My 2 cents.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 19, 2017 at 8:58:46 pm

[Bill Davis] "And at some point, it can become "bait and switch" to say it's an FCP X place - just one that's morphed into one with a minority of FCP X content because ALL the threads (like a few weeks back) are about Anything and Everything except FCP X. "

But don't posts like your rant against Adobe (below) undermine this argument?

https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/335/97154

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 19, 2017 at 9:14:43 pm

[Oliver Peters] "But don't posts like your rant against Adobe (below) undermine this argument?

https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/335/97154
"


For every hundred posts that are ON topic, I might post ONE (typically on a Sunday) that's not - AND I try to clearly OT it in the header. PLUS if it wasn't a topic that I had discussed at length AND as part of other on-topic threads (the Apple sales model verses the Adobe Sales model of VIDEO NLE PROGRAMS) I might agree. But I think those are both mitigating situations that make the post germane.

I don't think that's the same thing as coming here and seeing EVERY SINGLE POST about something OTHER than the software billboarded in the forum header.

But it's interpretive, I suppose.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


Return to posts index

Steve Connor
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 19, 2017 at 10:34:55 pm

[Bill Davis] "I don't think that's the same thing as coming here and seeing EVERY SINGLE POST about something OTHER than the software billboarded in the forum header.

But it's interpretive, I suppose."


Obviously as EVERY SINGLE POST actually ISN'T about something OTHER than FCPX.

(Shouting's fun!)


Return to posts index

Andrew Kimery
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 20, 2017 at 6:14:17 am

[Bill Davis] "But I think those are both mitigating situations that make the post germane. "

So you making an OT post is okay because it tangentially relates to differing business approaches between Apple and Adobe which is a topic that's been brought up in the past, but Simon making an OT post *isn't* okay because it relates to differing GUI customization approaches between Adobe and Apple which is also a topic that's been brought up in the past?

If it's okay for one person to make the occasional OT post then it has to be okay for everyone else too. Even if that means that 5 different people make 5 different OT posts around the same time which pushes the number of current FCP X threads below your liking.


[Bill Davis] "They use X, they want to LEARN about X. But when they get here - that do they see? A page is dominated by Premiere and Resolve posts.

Would YOU stay and post in that situation?"


I learn more about the strengths and weakness of X here than I do following X users on Twitter, X pages on Facebook, X websites like FCP.co because this is the only forum that I can think of that has such a diverse, knowledgeable group of regulars.

I don't understand why you keep saying it's a bad thing that is forum isn't the same as every other NLE forum out there.


Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 21, 2017 at 4:26:14 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "I don't understand why you keep saying it's a bad thing that is forum isn't the same as every other NLE forum out there."

But I'm not at all saying that.

I'm saying a Forum designed and marketed (by title) to focus on a particular topic, is weakened by having nothing on that topic showing in all the discussions on its front page.

Particularly in today's environment - where people clicking in, often have shortened attend spans and the ability to click away if they don't find something satisfying that causes them to stay - less "on-topic" content won't build the brand very efficiently.

That's all.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


Return to posts index

Simon Ubsdell
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 21, 2017 at 9:03:33 pm

[Bill Davis] " less "on-topic" content won't build the brand very efficiently."

I'm intrigued to know what exactly you mean by "the brand" here.

Are you talking about the COW brand (which seems to be taking care of itself pretty nicely from what I can tell)?

Or are you talking about the Apple/FCP X brand? In which case why do you think this forum is in the business of building that brand?

Simon Ubsdell
tokyo productions
hawaiki


Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 23, 2017 at 8:55:24 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "I'm intrigued to know what exactly you mean by "the brand" here.

Are you talking about the COW brand (which seems to be taking care of itself pretty nicely from what I can tell)?

Or are you talking about the Apple/FCP X brand? In which case why do you think this forum is in the business of building that brand?"


I"m talking about the SEARCH brand - which is quite possibly the ONLY brand worth building anymore, anywhere.

If people type in "God" and the only top results returned are those promoted exclusively by - say - Scientology - is that a problem? Would anyone feel it's a situation that needs to be addressed?

It weakens the effectiveness of search - (except for those of THAT bent, I suppose.) but it arguably DOES NOT meet the needs of the people searching.

Results of search that provide "some" unexpected results are fine. Great, in fact. Happy accidents should be encouraged.

Results of search that ONLY provide the unexpected - are damaging to the very idea of "search" itself - in my opinion.

Here's a thought experiment:

Lets say we were all to go to the Premiere Pro forum here - and working together - make every single topic thread on the landing page there - exclusively about how DeVinci Resolve functions - to the extent the words Adobe nor Premiere get pushed off the front page.

It's all theoretical and nobody actually gets hurt, right? So what's the problem?

And if you argue, it's NOT any problem at all - I say we try it!

If each of us posts a couple of RESOLVE only discussions there - we could swamp that board - and see if any of the Premiere users there have a problem with it?

Wouldn't be that hard to do the experiment, right?

Or would that be unreasonable and kinda dickish?

😐

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 23, 2017 at 9:01:11 pm

[Bill Davis] "I"m talking about the SEARCH brand - which is quite possibly the ONLY brand worth building anymore, anywhere."

Except that in actual practice, search results tie to specific posts, not to forum categories or sections. So if you go by search, then the actual forum title doesn't mean very much.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Steve Connor
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 23, 2017 at 10:24:28 pm

[Bill Davis] "Happy accidents should be encouraged."

Such as searching for an FCPX forum and being delighted that you've found a great forum that has a whole bunch of experienced Editors discussing all aspects of NLE's and Post-Production


[Bill Davis] "Or would that be unreasonable and kinda d***ish?
"


Implying that some people on here are being exactly that?

Very interested in Tim's thoughts on all this......


Return to posts index

Andrew Kimery
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 23, 2017 at 11:02:03 pm

[Bill Davis] "If people type in "God" and the only top results returned are those promoted exclusively by - say - Scientology - is that a problem? Would anyone feel it's a situation that needs to be addressed?"

I don't quite follow. Are you saying the COW doesn't always return FCP X results when you search for FCP X?

[Bill Davis] "Lets say we were all to go to the Premiere Pro forum here - and working together - make every single topic thread on the landing page there - exclusively about how DeVinci Resolve functions - to the extent the words Adobe nor Premiere get pushed off the front page.
"


I can't believe were are going on 6yrs and you still think this forum is only about FCP X. If you want a forum dedicated to X at the COW, good news, it already exists (and has for a long time). This forum, though, is dedicated to a debate about how Apple's 're-imagined' NLE experience compares/contrasts to the 'traditional' NLE approach used by MC, PPro, Resolve, Vegas, FCP Legend, Lightworks, etc.,.

Some others think that this place is a just general round-robin, NLE beat'em up forum, and want to given it a generic name that doesn't involve FCP X, but I think that ignores the unique philosophical underpinnings of X which are at the heart of the debate. Tim doesn't keep FCP X in the forum title as cheap way to swindle clicks from passersby, he keeps it in the forum title because this place is about how X's new philosophy compares to the pre-existing philosophy that almost all other NLEs use some variation of.


In another thread you talked about the tendency for many/most people to create cognitive bias supporting information silos around themselves these days, and with that in mind I think it should be encouraged, not discouraged, to post new and relevant info about all NLEs, not just X, in a forum that's geared toward debating about NLEs.

For example,
[Bill Davis] "As an X editor - I see TONS of X content from all over the world.

In order to see stuff on Premiere or AVID - I have to actively seek it out via effort."


[Bill Davis] "I'd love to be educated about how the Premiere or AVID editing operations are improving and evolving."

By people posting about what's new in other NLEs you no longer have to actively seek out that info via effort. It is brought to a place you already frequent and it gives you the opportunity to better educate yourself about applications that you don't personally use but often talk about. I know nothing beats hands on time, but that's not always feasible, and even reading about something you don't currently use can sometimes give you new ideas about what you do currently use.

For example, in the article you posted years ago about the night/day Honda ad cut on X, one thing the editor did is put the poxy media in a Compound clip and edit with that until he was given the full rez media. Once he got the full rez media he just dropped that into the Compound clip and *boom* the whole edit was now full rez. Even though I don't use X, the article was beneficially because I realized the same approach could be used in PPro via nested sequences.

Ever since then I've stopped thinking just in terms of clips and media, but also in terms of containers and that has changed how I approach various editing problems. For example, whenever I do foreign language interviews in PPro I always create a multicam clip (basically a nested sequence) and use that as my source because it allows me to keep interviewee's audio, the translators audio (aligned with the interviewees audio), and the subtitles all in the same container. This keeps the timeline cleaner, and makes it simple to apply changes globally.


Return to posts index

Tim Wilson
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 28, 2017 at 6:07:51 am

[Andrew Kimery] "Tim doesn't keep FCP X in the forum title as cheap way to swindle clicks from passersby, he keeps it in the forum title because this place is about how X's new philosophy compares to the pre-existing philosophy that almost all other NLEs use some variation of. "

Bingo! Absent FCPX, there's no debate. In fact, I've been doing this for over 20 years at this point. There's never been a debate forum here, period, before FCPX. We tried, heaven knows, if only because it seemed like we OUGHT to have at least one. Ultimately, though, the shape of this thing depends a lot more on the 300,000 members than it does the 3 of us who work here, and you the members let us know when you were ready to debate. It was with the announcement of FCPX. The first 200 or so posts went up while the debut presentation was still underway, being driven by the people in that room.

To another point of yours, Andrew, the current mix of threads on my version of the forum index page is FCPX in 10 of the first 11 threads, and no, I'm not including this one. That's 90.9%.

So, I guess there's "Half Full vs Half Empty Debates", but I'm not sure how 90.9% FCPX threads at the top of the page turns into somehow a lot more than half empty.

(And honestly, you'd be shocked how few people ever see that page anyway, relative to the high volume of traffic that moves through the forum as a whole. Nearly all of our traffic comes in directly to threads and posts, whether through search, or subscription....and do keep in mind that I'm also looking at the numbers of people who read the forum without posting, a number that I know isn't as accessible to the rest of you.

Also, if any chucklehead looks PAST the Apple FCPX forum on the Forums index page -- and yes, we made sure that the FCPX forum comes BEFORE the Debates forum in the listing -- then they get what they get. There's not the least ambiguity in the names. Want to talk about FCPX? Go to the FCPX Forum. Want to debate? Come here...although I maintain that the quality of conversation here is richer and more robust, certainly more diverse, than any monocultured FCPX forum, so keep coming here anyway. 😁)

This particular thread is entirely typical of a thread in this forum that DOES start on some other topic -- say, Premiere, or Resolve, or any number of non-software topics -- in that ALL threads eventually suck FCPX into them.

That's ultimately the nature of our little community-within-a-community. No thread stays away from FCPX for long. Nor should it, nor could it. Virtually ALL threads here are FCPX threads.

Which is also why I'm not buying for a minute that "THE" debate is over, because there was never just one debate. There have been a zillion of 'em. And yes, SOME of them ARE over, sort of, but some of the longest-stewing are still going on at this very minute. Others will arrive with the next rev, or the next Mac or whatever, which will bring the next wave of new customers, and the next wave of HIGHLY inappropriate rejoinders that "We settled this four years ago" -- well, no, obviously "we" didn't.

The irony is that I think the only way any debate is settled is when you stop moving. "I've bought my computer, I'm not looking at other software or platforms, I don't use products from other companies. I've made all the decisions I need to make. I've settled."

See the irony? Exactly the kind of thing so often decried in people who settle anywhere else.

But when you stay in motion, staying attuned to the full context of our creative enterprise, there's ALWAYS something new to debate. Every new release, not just from Apple, but from everyone, creates a new set of lenses through which to view FCPX, Apple, and the many, many other things we talk about every day.

(Contrast this with the Adobe debate forum, which really WAS only about one topic, and that one really HAS been settled. That's also why I doubt that the forum will spring back to life -- the people who shaped that forum as a venue to vent vented, then largely vamoosed. But hey, the forum is there if anyone needs it. YOU shape the forums. I just work here.)

Look, my feeling is the same as it ever was. The current name is the 4th or 5th we've had for this forum, so it's not that other names are out of the question. I do like this one, though. It's concise, and serves as a warning: try to start a thread on another topic, and it WILL be an FCPX thread soon enough. 😁

But if there's a next name, whatever it is, it too will have "FCPX" in the name, because that's the only reason we're here and the only thing we keep coming back to, and it will have "Debates" in the name, plural, because there's more than one debate.

Yr pal,
Timmy

Tim Wilson
Editor-in-Chief
Creative COW
🐮


Return to posts index

Paul Dickin
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces - a former debate forum.
on Aug 28, 2017 at 10:15:50 am
Last Edited By Paul Dickin on Aug 28, 2017 at 10:16:53 am

[Tim Wilson] "There's never been a debate forum here, period, before FCPX."
There was one, asterisk, in the old days 😉
The forum formerly known as *edit (until copyright issues caused the Cow to rename it) was an excellent debate forum in its latter days.
Until Ron got exasperated with the full-on nature of the debate and zapped years of excellent discussions and analysis into the cyberspace trashcan ☹ ;-( :-0 ☹
Years of excellent and informative debate gone. ☹ ;-( :-0 ☹
As a read-only lurker these days, when does this forum get zapped? ;-)



Return to posts index

Steve Connor
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 28, 2017 at 12:12:00 pm

[Tim Wilson] "Also, if any chucklehead looks PAST the Apple FCPX forum on the Forums index page -- and yes, we made sure that the FCPX forum comes BEFORE the Debates forum in the listing -- then they get what they get. There's not the least ambiguity in the names. Want to talk about FCPX? Go to the FCPX Forum. Want to debate? Come here...although I maintain that the quality of conversation here is richer and more robust, certainly more diverse, than any monocultured FCPX forum, so keep coming here anyway. 😁)
"


Sums it up nicely I think, not that there's exactly a large amount of people who want the the name change.


Return to posts index

Andrew Kimery
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 21, 2017 at 9:11:38 pm
Last Edited By Andrew Kimery on Aug 21, 2017 at 9:12:58 pm

[Bill Davis] "But I'm not at all saying that.

I'm saying a Forum designed and marketed (by title) to focus on a particular topic, is weakened by having nothing on that topic showing in all the discussions on its front page.


When I set my forum view to "by topic" and look back one week I see 9 topics and 6 of them contain discussions about X and/or Apple. If I look back two weeks I see 17 threads and 10 of them contain discussions about X and/or Apple. If I look back 4 weeks I see 40 threads and 26 of them contain discussions about X and/or Apple. The 'X-less' front page you saw seems to have been a short lived anomaly.

And with regards to the few threads that only talk about the brand new releases of Resolve and Fusion, I don't think it's fair to characterize them as completely OT because one can't truly discuss the effectiveness of X w/o discussing the effectiveness of other NLEs. Apple is the one that 're-imagined' how an NLE should function so I don't think it's unfair to say the onus is on X to prove that that change of direction is the best way forward. For you, and other's like you, the debate was over the day you got your hands on X. It fit your needs swimmingly right out of the box. For other people it is still on going. And hopefully through the nature of competition it will always be ongoing so that these companies always feel compelled to improve their offerings.

And it's not just with big re-imagining of how things are done that can propel X forward, it's also with smaller, relatively mundane things that add up over time. For example, the addition of Lanes and color coded Roles was huge in my opinion because many editors (myself included) are visual organizers and these two new tools give us a way to help visually organize
our timelines. For someone that already adopted X years ago it's probably not that big of a deal because they've learned to get along with it out, but for someone that's still debating whether or not X is worth it it could be something 'small' that finally tips the scales.


You things like this are a somewhat regular basis,

[Bill Davis] "I know I find WAY more interesting discussions about FCP X elsewhere on the web. A large chunk of those 2 million folks are active and engaged. Just not here.

which is why I think you'd be happier if this place turned into another homogeneous experience were the dominant theme is to talk about X, not to question X. That's just antithesis to the DNA of this particular forum though. Plus there's already a forum on the COW for that type of experience.



Particularly in today's environment - where people clicking in, often have shortened attend spans and the ability to click away if they don't find something satisfying that causes them to stay - less "on-topic" content won't build the brand very efficiently.

That's all."


I'll wait for Tim to officially chime in, but I bet the traffic here is still doing well.


EDIT: fixed the formatting.


Return to posts index

Simon Ubsdell
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 19, 2017 at 9:00:36 pm

[Bill Davis] "ALL the threads (like a few weeks back) are about Anything and Everything except FCP X.
"


Maybe all it would take is for FCP X itself to start being novel and newsworthy again? I'm sure I'm not alone in starting to find it just a little bit stale and in need of refreshment.

It's up to Apple to give us something new to talk about - manufactured excitement about something that's not terribly exciting any more is hard to sustain.

Meanwhile over in Blackmagic World and elsewhere quite a lot is happening that is genuinely newsworthy.

Perhaps it's not altogether surprising that conversation gravitates more towards the new and exciting ...

Simon Ubsdell
tokyo productions
hawaiki


Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 19, 2017 at 9:23:38 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "Maybe all it would take is for FCP X itself to start being novel and newsworthy again? I'm sure I'm not alone in starting to find it just a little bit stale and in need of refreshment.

It's up to Apple to give us something new to talk about - manufactured excitement about something that's not terribly exciting any more is hard to sustain.

Meanwhile over in Blackmagic World and elsewhere quite a lot is happening that is genuinely newsworthy.

Perhaps it's not altogether surprising that conversation gravitates more towards the new and exciting ..."


SO, your argument is that even tho FCP X is currently LESS newsworthy than, say, BlackMagic - the communities of discussion about THEM are so ill-attended, boring and moribund that people have to come to the FCP X forum for lively discussions?

Wow. Talk about damming the competition with astonishingly faint praise.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 19, 2017 at 2:33:53 pm

[Scott Witthaus] "I did post over on the adobe CC debate forum the other day, commenting on how lousy the upgrade process is (for me). It was a desolate place over there. Even Andy wasn't there! Only one person came to the "defense of the Adobe flag': Oliver! "

If you actually read my last post there, you'll note the PITA situation I had with Apple ID. Hardly a defense of Adobe, but rather relating where I and others have had issues with other companies.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Erik Lindahl
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 19, 2017 at 1:38:48 pm

I will give Premiere the edge on flexibility regarding its GUI, sadly it's quite buggy and the flixbility often does render it quite ugly.


Return to posts index

Simon Ubsdell
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 19, 2017 at 1:51:23 pm

[Erik Lindahl] "I will give Premiere the edge on flexibility regarding its GUI, sadly it's quite buggy and the flixbility often does render it quite ugly."

For four or five years after the FCP X launch, I refused to consider Premiere as a serious possibility and was determined to use FCP X as my next primary NLE after FCP7. As much as anything I hated the way Premiere "looked".

Then last year I finally understood how Premiere's workspace customisation could work for me - and that was the clincher.

Suddenly FCP X looked very much less attractive. And since then it has taken more and more of a backseat. Premiere's workspace customisation opened the door for me to all the other ways in which Premiere suited my needs better than FCP X. I still like and enjoy many aspects of FCP X but it's having to play second fiddle these days, perhaps until a new and genuinely exciting update swings the balance back the other way.

Disclaimer: this personal anecdote has no worth whatsoever, just like all personal anedcotes.

Simon Ubsdell
tokyo productions
hawaiki


Return to posts index

Steve Connor
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 19, 2017 at 2:06:11 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "FCP X. I still like and enjoy many aspects of FCP X but it's having to play second fiddle these days, perhaps until a new and genuinely exciting update swings the balance back the other way."

I'm sure most of us here would be very interested to hear a little more detail on that Simon and as you've mentioned FCPX then you'll be allowed to post it ☺

Since the last major update to FCPX I've completely stopped using PPRo completely as the updated FVPX interface was good enough for me.


Return to posts index

Simon Ubsdell
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 19, 2017 at 2:55:13 pm

[Steve Connor] "I'm sure most of us here would be very interested to hear a little more detail on that Simon and as you've mentioned FCPX then you'll be allowed to post it"

I think I'm going to pass on that. Not sure I want to run the risk of being labelled "clueless".

;-)

Simon Ubsdell
tokyo productions
hawaiki


Return to posts index

Steve Connor
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 19, 2017 at 3:41:46 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "I think I'm going to pass on that. Not sure I want to run the risk of being labelled "clueless".
"


Well if you REALLY learned how to use FCPX........ :)


Return to posts index

Simon Ubsdell
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 19, 2017 at 3:46:45 pm

[Steve Connor] "Well if you REALLY learned how to use FCPX........ :)"

But I'm not sure I can afford the cost of XinTwo.

Simon Ubsdell
tokyo productions
hawaiki


Return to posts index

greg janza
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 28, 2017 at 2:47:04 pm

[Steve Connor] "Since the last major update to FCPX I've completely stopped using PPRo completely as the updated FVPX interface was good enough for me.
"


One thing that never seems to be added into the discussion here regarding the debate between FCPX and PP or other NLE's is how the projects that editors get hired to work on are oftentimes NLE dependent.

One example would be projects in which an editor gets hired to update a previously made video. I have several clients that send me projects that have been originally worked on by another post production company or ad agency. In my area, PP is the dominate NLE and so I've only dealt with a FCPX inherited project once. It would be a huge waste of time to migrate these projects out of PP in order to work in FCPX.

Another example is getting hired to make a video by a company that has an in-house media department. These companies also often dictate how they want a project to be created because in the end they usually request all of the project media for archiving and potential future use. And in my area, virtually every company that I deal with is on Adobe.

Perhaps these situations aren't the norm for the regular contributors to this debate but I think it's a reality for many freelance editors. Therefore the notion of switching to another NLE is a much larger issue than just deciding which workflow an editor prefers.

I Hate Television. I Hate It As Much As Peanuts. But I Can’t Stop Eating Peanuts.
- Orson Welles


Return to posts index

Steve Connor
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 28, 2017 at 4:43:04 pm

[greg janza] "Another example is getting hired to make a video by a company that has an in-house media department. These companies also often dictate how they want a project to be created because in the end they usually request all of the project media for archiving and potential future use. And in my area, virtually every company that I deal with is on Adobe.
"


I used to have this a lot, I'm very fortunate that I get to choose the tools now!


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 28, 2017 at 5:23:56 pm
Last Edited By Oliver Peters on Aug 28, 2017 at 5:43:45 pm

[greg janza] "One thing that never seems to be added into the discussion here regarding the debate between FCPX and PP or other NLE's is how the projects that editors get hired to work on are oftentimes NLE dependent."

In the Florida market, there are places that use Media Composer/Newscutter, FCPX and even FCP7. But it's predominantly Premiere all over. If you know Premiere and After Effects, you have a much better chance of working regularly.

The shop I'm currently at has 7 to 10 regular editors in and out. I'm pretty much the only one who knows and/or is willing to use FCPX. A couple of others, plus me, know Media Composer, too. So on our current projects, which are in a fully collaborative situation, Premiere is the only option.

If we had to staff up with MC or FCPX editors, we simply wouldn't find enough who are both technically and creatively competent. That's not a slight at people who cut in X. Merely an issue of supply.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

greg janza
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 28, 2017 at 5:46:23 pm

[Oliver Peters] "If we had to staff up with MC or FCPX editors, we simply wouldn't find enough who are both technically and creatively competent."

Same story in the Bay Area. MC editors are an endangered species and FCPX editors are few in number and so that reality plays into post-production facilities and freelance editors gravitating to an all Adobe platform.

I Hate Television. I Hate It As Much As Peanuts. But I Can’t Stop Eating Peanuts.
- Orson Welles


Return to posts index

Erik Lindahl
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 19, 2017 at 2:48:17 pm

With the disclaimer I haven't really been able to use FCPX due to its shortcomings - shockingly poor A/V output support amongst other things. I do like the look of that application when I do use it every fortnight. Often it feels more thought out and well designed from the look of things. It's however very inflexible, especially for dual or thripple screen users.


Return to posts index

greg janza
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 20, 2017 at 5:08:44 pm

[Erik Lindahl] "I will give Premiere the edge on flexibility regarding its GUI, sadly it's quite buggy and the flixbility often does render it quite ugly."

It's hard to determine how buggy Premiere is due to the fact that many of the issues raised here on the forums tend to be localized problems.

My experience with Premiere has mainly been a matter of adjusting preference settings or learning workarounds for issues that on first glance appear to be program bugs.

I Hate Television. I Hate It As Much As Peanuts. But I Can’t Stop Eating Peanuts.
- Orson Welles


Return to posts index

Brian Seegmiller
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 21, 2017 at 10:11:38 pm

You can have your GUI. I would rather edit without having to worry about tracks.


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 21, 2017 at 10:20:30 pm

[Brian Seegmiller] "I would rather edit without having to worry about tracks."

You mean like Mistika, which is based on Jaleo? It was developed years before the first FCP.



- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Scott Witthaus
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 22, 2017 at 12:07:44 am

[Oliver Peters] "ou mean like Mistika, which is based on Jaleo? It was developed years before the first FCP.
"


Sure, why not.

Scott Witthaus
Owner, 1708 Inc./Editorial
Managing Partner, Low Country Creative LLC
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


Return to posts index

Brian Seegmiller
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 22, 2017 at 2:23:09 am

What Scott said.


Return to posts index

Claude Lyneis
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 22, 2017 at 5:08:36 am

How about calling it FCPX vs PPro? Sure Avid and Resolve drift in and out of the discussion, but X vs Pro seems to get the blood pumping.


Return to posts index

Andrew Kimery
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 22, 2017 at 6:12:04 am

[Claude Lyneis] "How about calling it FCPX vs PPro? Sure Avid and Resolve drift in and out of the discussion, but X vs Pro seems to get the blood pumping.
"


I dunno. This recent roil over the forum name started because Bill thinks there were too many threads about Resolve and Fusion for a finite amount of time, and anytime it's brought up how popular MC is with the we-have-budgets-big-enough-to-choose-anything-we-want crowd someone always lash out with "well, that's just actually a really small niche.." or "they only use it because it's entrenched, and nobody in their right mind would choose it otherwise..." blah, blah, blah. The animosity is certainly still strong there.

I'm not found of "X vs PPro" or "X vs Avid" or really X vs any specific NLE because the scope of this forum has never been that narrow. It's more of a philosophical debate about how to best build an NLE, and of course it's always changing because the software is always changing.


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 22, 2017 at 11:51:37 am

[Brian Seegmiller] "What Scott said."

I just don't get all the anxiety over tracks. I'm not fond of connecting clips and find myself needing to manage connecting points just as much or more as anything to do with tracks. So, I suppose it's a wash. Just seems like a non-issue, to me.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Tony West
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 22, 2017 at 1:07:59 pm

"I just don't get all the anxiety over tracks."


It's not anxiety because I like connected clips better. Just like YOU don't have anxiety over connected clips. You just don't like them.

I can see the advantage of swaping clips around in X but I don't see an advantage to using tracks.

Some like to organize with tracks but after 10.3 and Lanes I've got that also.

So, why do I need tracks? Just seems like a hold over of how things used to be.


Return to posts index

Scott Witthaus
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 22, 2017 at 3:55:37 pm

[Oliver Peters] "I just don't get all the anxiety over tracks."

It's not anxiety. I think there was way more anxiety contemplating the lack of tracks. Some of us find that the "trackless" model is a more efficient way to work. But I am not seeing "anxiety".

Scott Witthaus
Owner, 1708 Inc./Editorial
Managing Partner, Low Country Creative LLC
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


Return to posts index

Brian Seegmiller
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 22, 2017 at 4:33:08 pm

There is a lot more work with tracks. Seems like a no brainer to me, but to each his or her own. http://www.fcp.co/final-cut-pro/articles/1864-the-fcpx-tour-ibc-videos-part...


Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 24, 2017 at 12:58:17 am

But Brian, slowing down to manage tracks is BENEFICIAL.

It gives you more time to creatively simmer in your material.

You see the clip when you import it.

You see it again when you string it out.

You see it again and again and again as you visually scan that lovely string out - back and forth - over and over like a hungry man approaches a buffet stocked with delicacies!

You see it again when you "pancake" that special clip into your timeline.

oh, I've made the CHOICE! (shiver) I do so hope it works.

Are we being nourished yet?

Wait, it needs SEASONING. I must trim and flavor it MORE. Until it's sublime.

The software is helping me build a SPECIAL relationship with that shot. Shot? No, visual food for my very soul.

Until that MAGIC moment it becomes a glorious part of MY CREATION (longer shiver)

THIS IS EDITING!!!!!

Without the ability to see and consider every single clip almost endlessly - juxtaposed (just so!) how can any truly qualified cutter make a decent creative decision about it? Anyone who just wants to have that clip visually hidden away (sob) until the instant you "keyword call it up" directly into your timeline - is hack and a fool and doesn't understand this business...

It's FAST FOOD editing. For the damaged and the soulless.

The Heathens.

____

Yep, the above is insulting, stupid, and beneath the dignity of a real discussion.

Fun to write for EFFECT, tho. It's always Fun to Wildly exaggerate the truth.

But in the end, mostly writing this way produces cute sounding CRAP.

Because we've had lots and lots of worthy discussions here - that touch on exactly the concepts I was pseudo mocking above.

ALL it demonstrates, IMO, is how easy is it to exaggerate someone else's reasonable thinking and trash their ideas.

I will watch myself more about stuff like this.

Hopefully others will join me in trying to do that.

I STILL think too many of the posts here (like this one) are antagonistic to the forum brand - but that's a better topic for a different thread.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


Return to posts index

Herb Sevush
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 24, 2017 at 12:31:49 pm

[Bill Davis] "You see the clip when you import it.

You see it again when you string it out.

You see it again and again and again as you visually scan that lovely string out - back and forth - over and over like a hungry man approaches a buffet stocked with delicacies!

You see it again when you "pancake" that special clip into your timeline.

oh, I've made the CHOICE! (shiver) I do so hope it works.

Are we being nourished yet?

Wait, it needs SEASONING. I must trim and flavor it MORE. Until it's sublime.

The software is helping me build a SPECIAL relationship with that shot. Shot? No, visual food for my very soul.

Until that MAGIC moment it becomes a glorious part of MY CREATION (longer shiver)

THIS IS EDITING!!!!!"

Without the ability to see and consider every single clip almost endlessly - juxtaposed (just so!) how can any truly qualified cutter make a decent creative decision about it?"



Bill, I'm so glad your time on this board has taught you something about your chosen profession. Minus the culinary hyperbole this insight, if applied to ones work, can do wonders in improving ones craft. Bravo.


[Bill Davis] " Anyone who just wants to have that clip visually hidden away (sob) until the instant you "keyword call it up" directly into your timeline - is hack and a fool and doesn't understand this business...

It's FAST FOOD editing. For the damaged and the soulless.

The Heathens. "


Now, now, we leave all the degradation and name calling to the "fanboy" types. Fast food has a very profitable place in the world and somebody has to make it, and if that someone is you, then just remember to add some special sauce and top it with a brioche.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


Return to posts index

andy patterson
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 24, 2017 at 8:35:47 pm

[Bill Davis] "Yep, the above is insulting, stupid, and beneath the dignity of a real discussion."

The same could be said of the video link below.

http://www.fcp.co/final-cut-pro/articles/1864-the-fcpx-tour-ibc-videos-part...

[Bill Davis] "ALL it demonstrates, IMO, is how easy is it to exaggerate someone else's reasonable thinking and trash their ideas."

I agree! The link above with Jesús Pérez-Miranda shows a person trying really hard to make Premiere Pro seem like the worst editing program ever created while at the same time trying to make FCPX seem like the best editing program ever created. Having said that it does not make FCPX look like the best editing program ever. It does however demonstrate that Jesús Pérez-Miranda does not know how to use Premiere Pro efficiently.


Return to posts index

Brian Seegmiller
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 25, 2017 at 5:45:45 pm

Would you like to show us how to use PP with more than one audio track and move things around like Jesús Pérez-Miranda did and switch shots efficiently without messing up your timeline? I would like to see that demo.


Return to posts index

andy patterson
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 25, 2017 at 7:28:46 pm

[Brian Seegmiller] "Would you like to show us how to use PP with more than one audio track and move things around like Jesús Perez-Miranda did and switch shots efficiently without messing up your timeline? I would like to see that demo."

I am not saying the trackless system does not have merit. I am saying Jesús Perez-Miranda made Premiere Pro seem more difficult that it actually is. Also his paradigm of linear Vs non linear was flawed. Can you agree with my comments or do I need to actually make a video about it? For the record Jesús Perez-Miranda responded to me by saying he used his own definition of NLE VS linear. Unfortunately people don't get to make up their own definitions.


Return to posts index

Brian Seegmiller
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 28, 2017 at 2:53:34 am

You can clearly see in the video his examples of how a NLE with tracks get in the way and makes it hard to edit while messing up the timeline. You said, "Jesús Perez-Miranda made Premiere Pro seem more difficult that it actually is". So with that, I would like you to show us with the same layout of the clips of his timeline how to make it less difficult than it really is. Since I have to work in Premiere sometimes I really would like to see how you would do it.


Return to posts index

andy patterson
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 28, 2017 at 4:39:52 pm

[Brian Seegmiller] "So with that, I would like you to show us with the same layout of the clips of his timeline how to make it less difficult than it really is. Since I have to work in Premiere sometimes I really would like to see how you would do it."

As if I don't have anything better to do with my free time. Having said that if I do post the video will you be able to post on the FCPX website that Jesús Perez-Miranda made things much harder than they need to be? Will you also provide a link to my video at the FCPX website? If I educate you I could only hope you would want to educate others. Is it a deal? You could also leave a comment on the FCPX website that Jesús Perez-Miranda's NLE VS Linear paradigm has some serious flaws. You don't have to do that but it would be the right thing to do regardless if I make the response video or not.


Return to posts index

Brian Seegmiller
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 28, 2017 at 8:45:11 pm

I would have to see your video to judge for myself if your method does in fact make it less difficult. Remember same layout of his timeline.


Return to posts index

andy patterson
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 28, 2017 at 10:52:37 pm

[Brian Seegmiller] "I would have to see your video to judge for myself if your method does in fact make it less difficult. Remember same layout of his timeline."

It will not have to be identical to show that Jesús Perez-Miranda doesn't know how to use Premiere Pro efficiently. Having said that I will try to get it done soon.


Return to posts index

andy patterson
Re: Premiere Pro Workspaces
on Aug 31, 2017 at 7:55:32 pm

[Brian Seegmiller] "You can have your GUI. I would rather edit without having to worry about tracks."

I have posted a video that should make your life a lot easier when using Premiere Pro. You have to use the correct tool for the task at hand when using any NLE. I am not saying FCPX is better or worse than Premiere Pro. Having said that I hope you like the video I created for you. The post is called your wish is my command : )


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]