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Bill Davis
Arrrrgh. Also Off Topic - Photos. Grrrr.
on Aug 6, 2017 at 6:47:10 pm

Damn, Damn, Damn,

I'm venting here because many of you know this story. (My long, sad, frustrating story about my battles with my now terminated Adobe Photo Subscription.)

As many of you know, I finally cut ALL my ties to Adobe subscriptions a couple of months back.

The double billing thing was annoying me every month when I saw the two charges on my CC bill - and all the calls to tech support and billing at Adobe to try to resolve it were all for naught. And I was only doing a couple of photo based projects a year that my other tools couldn't handle. And I remembered people telling me that if I just had a temp need, I could buy a month of access (albeit, at a stiffer price) - and work on the old stuff as needed.

Apparently NOPE.

I came back from ComiCon with tons of good shots. But I'm not yet anywhere close to fluid enough with Affinity Photo, PhotoMechanic, or Pixelmator - to fluently work this large a set of stills.

So I went to the Adobe Site to sign up for a MONTH of Lightroom access just to get this ONE personal project done.

Well, It appears you can't actually DO that anymore. (If you ever could irrespective of what people used to post a lot in counter argument.) It appears there is NO month-to-month Photo Plan signup possible from Adobe any more. You apparently MUST signup for a year at a time. Every year. Even if you want to use the program for ONE weekend gig.

The web site only shows annual billed monthly - or annual billed for the whole year. Period.

This essentially makes the cost of Lightroom north of $120 - even if I only wish to use it on ONE personal project - one time only - for even one day.

Affinity Photo cost me $49 four years ago - apparently for LIFE.

Please, Affinity - have a team working on a library organizer/file retouching alternative.

Pretty, pretty please.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Steve Connor
Re: Arrrrgh. Also Off Topic - Photos. Grrrr.
on Aug 6, 2017 at 7:06:08 pm

[Bill Davis] "This essentially makes the cost of Lightroom north of $120 - even if I only wish to use it on ONE personal project - one time only - for even one day.

Affinity Photo cost me $49 four years ago - apparently for LIFE.

Please, Affinity - have a team working on a library organizer/file retouching alternative.

Pretty, pretty please.
"


On the plus side it's some great ammunition for future anti-subscription posts


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Claude Lyneis
Re: Arrrrgh. Also Off Topic - Photos. Grrrr.
on Aug 6, 2017 at 7:24:19 pm

Glad I bought Lightroom 6 as a stand alone copy, when I did. Hopefully it will last for some more years.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Arrrrgh. Also Off Topic - Photos. Grrrr.
on Aug 6, 2017 at 9:10:19 pm

Based on what I read on the website today, you can get a monthly plan (month-by-month), single app subscription for Photoshop, but not Lightroom or the Photo Plan. Weird.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Mathieu Ghekiere
Re: Arrrrgh. Also Off Topic - Photos. Grrrr.
on Aug 7, 2017 at 8:47:56 am

It's one of the things I hate about subscription. They can change the terms at any time.

https://mathieughekiere.wordpress.com


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Arrrrgh. Also Off Topic - Photos. Grrrr.
on Aug 7, 2017 at 11:02:48 am

That's certainly extremely annoying. It's not encouraging to see some of the things that Adobe are doing around stuff like this.

I notice however that you are not using Apple Photos, for which I believe you and many others held out high hopes when it launched:

"It's interesting to speculate that the many, many still-imaging driven folks MIGHT have more in store from Apple.

Certainly, the number of people who need or want to work with still images is at least as big as those who need or want to work with video. And if Apple has the engineering skills - why not someday either a Photos Pro - or at least a really robust 3rd party ecosystem that adds tons of modern capabilities to the underlying structure.

Fun to dream."


https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/335/84464#84519

Simon Ubsdell
tokyo productions
hawaiki


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Oliver Peters
Re: Arrrrgh. Also Off Topic - Photos. Grrrr.
on Aug 7, 2017 at 1:07:36 pm

Although you can still purchase Lightroom outright without a subscription plan. Although there may be some feature differences between the current Lightroom CC and Lightroom 6.

https://helpx.adobe.com/creative-cloud/help/download-install-single-app-Lig...

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Bill Davis
Re: Arrrrgh. Also Off Topic - Photos. Grrrr.
on Aug 8, 2017 at 4:37:57 am

[Oliver Peters] "Although you can still purchase Lightroom outright without a subscription plan. Although there may be some feature differences between the current Lightroom CC and Lightroom 6."

I was assuming that since my Lightroom was updating automitically through my subscription, all my files have been pushed to the current version format and therefore aren't backwards compatible any longer. Does Lightroom 6 read Lightroom current files?

Also another small vexation is that even though I formally disinstalled all Adobe software, the software remains somewhere on my computer.

I know this because I accidentally double clicked on an old file and was surprised when it launched. For a moment I thought the "phone home for authorization" thing hadn't expired. But then the warning screens appeared reminding me that the Develop Module would remain locked away unless I re-subscribed.

Oh well.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Arrrrgh. Also Off Topic - Photos. Grrrr.
on Aug 8, 2017 at 12:06:50 pm

[Bill Davis] "Does Lightroom 6 read Lightroom current files? "

I don't know. The two versions are different because new features have been added in CC. But whether or not the database files themselves are backwards compatible is something to check. It could be that sorting and tagging will work but color adjustments might be different. But I'm only guessing.

Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: Arrrrgh. Also Off Topic - Photos. Grrrr.
on Aug 8, 2017 at 12:47:06 pm

[Bill Davis] "Also another small vexation is that even though I formally disinstalled all Adobe software, the software remains somewhere on my computer."

Sounds like you still have old versions on the system. Check your Applications folder for any Adobe folders. Also check any other user accounts on the computer. Delete these.

Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Bill Davis
Re: Arrrrgh. Also Off Topic - Photos. Grrrr.
on Aug 9, 2017 at 3:00:11 am

It's not important.

It's just weird that I used the official Adobe uninstaller - and it didn't actually uninstall the program itself.

It did remove Adobes Manager from its persistent slot in my desktop interface - but the program itself remains on my drive.

Not doing any real harm, I guess.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Arrrrgh. Also Off Topic - Photos. Grrrr.
on Aug 7, 2017 at 1:09:16 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "I notice however that you are not using Apple Photos"

It's worth noting that a number of the third-party developers, like Pixelmator have added extensions for Photos, which really improves its capabilities.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Robert Olding
Re: Arrrrgh. Also Off Topic - Photos. Grrrr.
on Aug 7, 2017 at 6:32:26 pm

Regarding software for the asset management of photos, I don't believe anything has yet to surpass Apple's Aperture. Unfortunately, it's not an option anymore. If you need something for just asset management, one great option is Pixave . We've been testing it in our creative department.

I believe that asset management for professional photographers is a very underserved market. Especially in an environment where files are accessed by multiple users. Even though everyone in our studio and post-production house has a full Adobe CC subscription, we don't use Lightroom. Currently its asset management function doesn't meet our needs. Photoshop is a must have and Adobe's ACR is a fantastic RAW file processor, but we and many other studios use Phase One's Capture One Pro.

Robert Olding
http://www.8streetstudio.com
Minneapolis, MN


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Oliver Peters
Re: Arrrrgh. Also Off Topic - Photos. Grrrr.
on Aug 7, 2017 at 8:32:32 pm

[Robert Olding] "If you need something for just asset management, one great option is Pixave . "

Looks very cool. Another option is also Adobe Bridge CC, which I believe is still free. You just can to create an Adobe CC account.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Arrrrgh. Also Off Topic - Photos. Grrrr.
on Aug 8, 2017 at 5:02:06 pm

Yes. Adobe Bridge CC is free, and is also available as a free-standing install outside of the CC realm. In other words, you don't have to have Photoshop, AE, PPro or other products installed for it to work.

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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andy patterson
Re: Arrrrgh. Also Off Topic - Photos. Grrrr.
on Aug 8, 2017 at 6:08:08 pm

[Joseph W. Bourke] "Yes. Adobe Bridge CC is free, and is also available as a free-standing install outside of the CC realm. In other words, you don't have to have Photoshop, AE, PPro or other products installed for it to work."

Adobe's Bridge can do some cool things.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Arrrrgh. Also Off Topic - Photos. Grrrr.
on Aug 8, 2017 at 7:07:28 pm

Sorry to hear about your continued troubles with CC, Bill. You seem to be snake bit in this regard.


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Bill Davis
Re: Arrrrgh. Also Off Topic - Photos. Grrrr.
on Aug 9, 2017 at 3:39:15 am

Seriously a "1st world problem" tho.

I try to always remember there are too many people who have ACTUAL life challenges.

Being able to own a computer and software (about which licensing is even a Lin issue) is a reminder to put any annoyance in perspective and count my blessings.

Besides, I'm currently trying to change a pre-purchased international flight - and the push back on getting even a partial refund on ANYTHING related to it is toe to toe with anything I've been through with Adobe in the past year.

Even with trip insurance! (Which I bought knowing an elective eye surgery might be scheduled around the time if my trip - said insurance being sold on my US based airlines website - for travel to Europe through a subsidery NOT actually run by the airline but a separate company with headquarters in Tennessee - whose customer service phone operations are in (wait for it) Mexico City - and who MIGHT accept or reject my refund request - but would like a DOCTORS NOTE before they rule on it.

Seriously.

These "fishhook" transactions are everywhere now. In the modern era, it seems once any entity has taken your money - the "policy" barriers to getting even a little of it back are the best that expensive lawyers can erect.

Modern E-commerce is kinda moving from Buyer Beware - to perhaps Buyer be scared.

I guess if you're OK paying AmEx a couple hundred a year for the right colored card that comes with transactional assistance they might have your back - but without that - the people in the other end of the phone are invariably polite - but also well schooled in NEVER giving money back once it's received without at least a moderate struggle.

And nobody will likely have your back by default.

It's depressing.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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greg janza
Re: Arrrrgh. Also Off Topic - Photos. Grrrr.
on Aug 9, 2017 at 4:24:28 am

bill, time for a paradigm shift.

circa 1998 an Avid system cost $66,500
in the early 2000's a fully loaded Media100 cost $44,000
and in 2011, FCP7 was $1000

so the notion of fretting about $120 seems silly. It's true that getting money back is nearly impossible these days but luckily it's a nominal amount.

I Hate Television. I Hate It As Much As Peanuts. But I Can’t Stop Eating Peanuts.
- Orson Welles


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Scott Witthaus
Re: Arrrrgh. Also Off Topic - Photos. Grrrr.
on Aug 9, 2017 at 10:57:29 am

[Andrew Kimery] "You seem to be snake bit in this regard.
"


The CC subscription model is a bit "iffy" on updates (for me): This last update, Premiere and Photoshop are fine. After Effects, however, thinks it's in trial mode and started a 7 day free trial (Hey Adobe, how about 30 days?). Maybe I am snake-bit as well, but it seems every CC update creates a new "puzzle" to solve. As far as the rest of the CC package is concerned, I have not even checked yet. Will never use the vast majority of what is "left over" from the big three.

Scott Witthaus
Owner, 1708 Inc./Editorial
Managing Partner, Low Country Creative LLC
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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andy patterson
Re: Arrrrgh. Also Off Topic - Photos. Grrrr.
on Aug 9, 2017 at 11:46:04 am

What is worse having to rent the software or having to buy a new computer?

In order to run FCPX I had to buy an expensive Mac mini that is a tad bit buggy. I guess I got bit as well. I also found a bug in FCPX (trial version).

Overall FCPX works OK on the Mac mini but the same shortcomings from when I last used FCPX are still there.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Arrrrgh. Also Off Topic - Photos. Grrrr.
on Aug 9, 2017 at 8:36:37 pm

[greg janza] "so the notion of fretting about $120 seems silly. It's true that getting money back is nearly impossible these days but luckily it's a nominal amount."

For paid work I would kinda agree, but for a non-revenue generating personal project $120 is a steep price to pay (especially if you are Bill and have been getting double charged by Adobe for years due to a clerical error that they seem unable to fix). For reasons like this I don't use subscription software for any of my personal projects (home videos, home photos, etc.,).


[Scott Witthaus] "The CC subscription model is a bit "iffy" on updates (for me): This last update, Premiere and Photoshop are fine. After Effects, however, thinks it's in trial mode and started a 7 day free trial (Hey Adobe, how about 30 days?). Maybe I am snake-bit as well, but it seems every CC update creates a new "puzzle" to solve. "

Not everyone will have the same experience, but I've been subscribing since CS6 and never had an update/licensing problem. On the flip side, w/in the first 6 months of Avid shifting to their new sales model 2-3 years ago I had a show stopping licensing problem that required a phone call to Avid to fix. I had uninstalled an old version of MC before deactivating first so that prevented me from activating any other MC install (even a re-install of the version I just uninstalled). Hopefully they allow activation/deactivation via the Avid App or the web these days, but back then they didn't.


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Charlie Austin
Re: Arrrrgh. Also Off Topic - Photos. Grrrr.
on Aug 9, 2017 at 9:11:18 pm

Have a look at this... https://www.picktorial.com

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~I still need to play Track Tetris sometimes. An old game that you can never win~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Oliver Peters
Re: Arrrrgh. Also Off Topic - Photos. Grrrr.
on Aug 9, 2017 at 10:26:36 pm

[Charlie Austin] "Have a look at this..."

Nice! Now if only the FCPX color board worked like this ☺

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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David Mathis
Re: Arrrrgh. Also Off Topic - Photos. Grrrr.
on Aug 9, 2017 at 11:50:59 pm

Completely agree. Not sure what Apple was thinking with their color correction tools. The one in Premiere Pro are more robust but that requires a subscription. 😱


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andy patterson
Re: Arrrrgh. Also Off Topic - Photos. Grrrr.
on Aug 10, 2017 at 1:29:32 am

[Oliver Peters] "[Charlie Austin] "Have a look at this..."

Nice! Now if only the FCPX color board worked like this ☺"


I am getting ready to do a FCPX video. I don't think the color board is that bad. Having said that I don't think it is as good as the CC tools of Premiere Pro.


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Bill Davis
Re: Arrrrgh. Also Off Topic - Photos. Grrrr.
on Aug 9, 2017 at 10:29:19 pm

Charlie,

Seriously, thanks for the suggestion - but photo manipulation isn't the problem.

Affinity Photo and Pixelmator have that covered.

It's the Lightroom wheelhouse of curating batches of photos so you can tag the best in class. Process lots of similar shots with cut and paste global adjustments. And go in and apply things like cropping, gradients for directing the viewers eye and basic image specific adjustments while remaining in the library system - rather than working on a single image.

Lightroom did those things well - and didn't try to be a Photoshop type thing.

That was its charm.

If somebody can do THAT stuff as well in a program I can own. I'm in! Even if it's $100.

I'd gladly pay that much once. Just not yearly, forever.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Charlie Austin
Re: Arrrrgh. Also Off Topic - Photos. Grrrr.
on Aug 10, 2017 at 12:49:06 am

[Bill Davis] "It's the Lightroom wheelhouse of curating batches of photos so you can tag the best in class. Process lots of similar shots with cut and paste global adjustments. And go in and apply things like cropping, gradients for directing the viewers eye and basic image specific adjustments while remaining in the library system - rather than working on a single image."

You should DL the trial, you can do that stuff. Not exactly the same as Lightroom, but for 39 bucks it's worth it. For me anyway...

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~I still need to play Track Tetris sometimes. An old game that you can never win~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Bill Davis
Re: Arrrrgh. Also Off Topic - Photos. Grrrr.
on Aug 10, 2017 at 2:10:38 am

OK. Will give it a shot. Thanks.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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