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Bill Davis
Apple getting ready for the coming new MacPros?
on Jul 31, 2017 at 8:29:32 pm

My friend Alex Gollner posted this earlier today.

Be an interesting coming few years.

http://alex4d.com/notes/item/apple-new-mac-pro-media-workflow-lab

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Apple getting ready for the coming new MacPros?
on Jul 31, 2017 at 9:37:19 pm

One has to wonder if this is "a day late and a dollar short"? I wonder if anyone told the Pro Apps team about this? You'd think that they would actually already have someone like this internally. FWIW - Culver City is where Sony Pictures is located.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: Apple getting ready for the coming new MacPros?
on Jul 31, 2017 at 9:40:21 pm

My guess is that this is to test and evangelize the coming Mac Pro to users who are used to running high-end apps on PC and Linux boxes. Probably not to push FCPX, per se.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Bill Davis
Re: Apple getting ready for the coming new MacPros?
on Jul 31, 2017 at 10:35:00 pm

Perhaps.

But there is another way to look at it is this.

In 2011, Apple tore apart the most popular and successful NLE on the market and started from scratch integrating a new approach. It jettisoned their own wildly successful technologies like QuickTime and re-scaffolded the software on new foundational blocks.
Over time, they've been focused on new underpinning ideas like extending the user/database exposure, re-thinking and extending the magnetic timelines capabilities and creating a new database capabilities subset for audio with Roles.
Now that the code for all those ideas (and more) are time tested and in place - they see how all that work is poised to help those customers with the largest and most complex workflows and they are starting to set up a central place in the heart of the American Media industry to help their customers leverage the new capability against the increasingly complex workflows of today.

When Cannon found that their customers were using the 5Ds for video they did the same thing. Boosted the hardware with the C series video cameras and opened up a shop in Hollywood to support users there.

Seems like Apple might be doing the same thing.

As to whether it's somehow "too late" that can only be true if two conditions are present IMO. The first is that there's no customer base for a more refined solution than the ones already in place - and secondly if whoever is promoting better alternatives can't get their solution noticed enough to gain traction.

Somehow I don't think either are going to be a problem for Apple.

We'll see.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Apple getting ready for the coming new MacPros?
on Jul 31, 2017 at 10:39:43 pm
Last Edited By Oliver Peters on Jul 31, 2017 at 10:40:13 pm

All I'm saying is not to view this through an FCPX lens. The position is within the Mac hardware team, not the Pro Apps software team.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Bill Davis
Re: Apple getting ready for the coming new MacPros?
on Aug 1, 2017 at 12:57:34 am

[Oliver Peters] "All I'm saying is not to view this through an FCPX lens. The position is within the Mac hardware team, not the Pro Apps software team."

And all I'm saying is that if Hollywood shops (or their rent/lease integrators) want the new boxes to put AVID setups in the hands of experienced editors APPLE will surely be delighted to sell the computers, regardless.

If it turns out those same boxes run X significantly faster than they run AVID or Premiere (speculative at best but not unreasonable considering where we are seeing today) then time will tell if X qualified editors will get an increasing chunk of those seats - for no reason beyond it possibly being the most optimized tool for getting the work done.

As you and many others here have pointed out - preferences and conditioning aside - if a producer wants the team cutting on NLE A because it hits the deadlines easier with lower labor costs - that's what usually happens.

And again as you've said here - X is not THAT big a jump for any qualified editor given good training and time to adapt.

The big issue is the collaborative stuff and nobody outside Apple knows what or if anything is happening there. But it IS an NLE built on top of a database after all.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Apple getting ready for the coming new MacPros?
on Aug 1, 2017 at 1:14:58 am

But looks at the list of apps. Editing is a small part of the list. There's a heavier focus on VFX and audio. I think part of the equation is that most folks are going to consider the iMac Pro as more than perfect for editing. So Apple is going to have to find markets to justify and tweak the new Mac Pro. I suspect that's where this lab fits in. The description also discusses gathering analysis related to all products, including iPads. IOW - end-to-end workflows and what products can be applied. Hardware, not software.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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andy patterson
Re: Apple getting ready for the coming new MacPros?
on Aug 1, 2017 at 1:31:01 am

[Bill Davis] "The big issue is the collaborative stuff and nobody outside Apple knows what or if anything is happening there. But it IS an NLE built on top of a database after all."

Same could have been said about Premiere Pro back when FCPX was released.

[Bill Davis] " X qualified editors will get an increasing chunk of those seats - for no reason beyond it possibly being the most optimized tool for getting the work done."

Only time will tell but keep in mind all the NLE are getting better and better. DR probably had the best update this year but who knows what will happen at NAB 2018? Will BMD have a photo/graphic design program that integrates with DR and Photoshop at NAB 2018? Will that be a game changer?


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Oliver Peters
Re: Apple getting ready for the coming new MacPros?
on Aug 1, 2017 at 1:59:17 pm
Last Edited By Oliver Peters on Aug 1, 2017 at 3:36:07 pm

[Bill Davis] "But it IS an NLE built on top of a database after all."

I see this statement made a lot. Just to be clear. EVERY NLE made was an NLE built on top of a database. No exceptions, except maybe traditional film cutting. Even there, editors had codebooks (database).

EDIT: Of course, each company will opt to manipulate their database differently, thus enabling you to derive different types of info. But it's the core database of the project that allows the sort of custom sorting, sifting, and versioning that is the essence of a digital NLE.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Apple getting ready for the coming new MacPros?
on Aug 1, 2017 at 4:16:15 pm

[Bill Davis] "Over time, they've been focused on new underpinning ideas like extending the user/database exposure, re-thinking and extending the magnetic timelines capabilities and creating a new database capabilities subset for audio with Roles.
Now that the code for all those ideas (and more) are time tested and in place - they see how all that work is poised to help those customers with the largest and most complex workflows and they are starting to set up a central place in the heart of the American Media industry to help their customers leverage the new capability against the increasingly complex workflows of today.
"


It's not an either/or situation though which is what has frustrated many users. There's no reason this position couldn't have existed for the past six years (who knows, maybe the Trashcan MP blunder could've been avoided all together).

Years ago I used to work at a large facility that was Apple-centric (dozens of Mac NLEs, huge Xsan, primed to roll out Final Cut Server, etc.,) and the in-house tech integrators had direct lines to enterprise level support inside Apple. That close support disappeared after things like Xsan and Final Cut Legend were shuttered. It's not like this a market that Apple accidentally stumbled into/created like Canon did with 5D. They made many specific choices to enter it, grow within it, and then back away from it.

I look forward to the good things that will come out of this, because with the amount of Mac-centric workflows in this part of the industry it would be nice if Apple stopped being so aloof.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Apple getting ready for the coming new MacPros?
on Aug 1, 2017 at 4:49:18 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "That close support disappeared after things like Xsan and Final Cut Legend were shuttered. It's not like this a market that Apple accidentally stumbled into/created like Canon did with 5D. They made many specific choices to enter it, grow within it, and then back away from it."

Yep. Went through that, too. We can all thank Steve Jobs for that. At one point Apple had an enterprise unit to deal with those customers and then those Apple folks were all reassigned. Sales and support went to the resellers, which meant it deteriorated. Xsan and FC Server were good products that were not fully developed and those experiences with Apple left a bad taste. I know of at least one corporate example where this resulted in an edict that no more Apple products would be accepted on bids. Post workstations shifted to Dell. It also helped drive sales for Avid with seats of Media Composer and Avid shared storage.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: Apple getting ready for the coming new MacPros?
on Aug 1, 2017 at 5:26:54 pm

I would add, that under Cook, the anti-enterprise attitude at Apple seems to be softening and/or mitigated. This is an example, I believe, along with others, like Apple's slightly more visible presence at NAB. Not exactly the same as in the Xsan days, but certainly improving from where it was 5 or 6 years ago.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Bill Davis
Re: Apple getting ready for the coming new MacPros?
on Aug 1, 2017 at 10:35:17 pm

[Oliver Peters] "I see this statement made a lot. Just to be clear. EVERY NLE made was an NLE built on top of a database. No exceptions, except maybe traditional film cutting. Even there, editors had codebooks (database)."

Sure they all function behind the scenes using database techniques. If you expand the idea far enough a 1950s library card catalog is a "database" too - but that's in no way germane to the discussion at hand.

A card catalogue wastes time in the modern era scale of expectations. And until you can show me another approach with a better system of user driven functionally for recalling shots instantly as you need them with absolutely minimal friction - like X does via its clip range tagging system - It's a distinction with a huge practical difference.

Subclips - the traditional way to separate out subsets of footage in older NLEs - has a mere fraction of the power of truly integrated "right in the app" ranged based keywording.

That was my point.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Apple getting ready for the coming new MacPros?
on Aug 1, 2017 at 11:10:25 pm

[Bill Davis] "That was my point."

Saying that X is built on a database but expecting readers to infer that you mean that X has range based keywording is expecting a quite a bit. Maybe just say that X has range based keywording next time? :)


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Oliver Peters
Re: Apple getting ready for the coming new MacPros?
on Aug 2, 2017 at 12:04:17 am
Last Edited By Oliver Peters on Aug 2, 2017 at 12:07:20 am

[Andrew Kimery] "Maybe just say that X has range based keywording next time? :)"

Which is all very nice, but simply a variation on a theme. It's the same as subclipping, but with one keystroke removed ☺ In fact, I would suggest that pulling multiple ranges (or subclips) from within a single clip is kind of meaningless. The true innovation, from the POV of databases, is that I can have the same clip appear in multiple locations (Bins, Events, etc.) based on keywords and sorting.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Bill Davis
Re: Apple getting ready for the coming new MacPros?
on Aug 2, 2017 at 6:20:26 pm

And I'd argue that you are WAY underselling what Apple created by exposing so much of the database to the user by way of its implementation in X.

It's systematic in a way no other NLE is - at least as I understand it.

Or can you call up something like the Keyword HUD and get instant confirmation of the attached metadata tags applied to any frame in Premiere? Can you concatenate collections via search terms rules (ala Smart collections) and recall those new pre-curated assets instantly for single keystroke deployment Into your edit without anything destructive happening in Davinci? Can you apply momentary temp search strings - apply an ascii graphic like a red diamond to the collection then use that as an editorial team communications flag?

I'm honestly asking since I don't use those programs.

Not being familiar with the other programs, perhaps you can - but I've yet read of stUff like that touted in ANY but X workflows.

Re-arranging the same traditional approaches via pancaking and stringout management is about the extent of what I've read about from the other NLE camps.

If innovative stuff like this is happening in the other NLEs please describe it for me.

I'd love to be educated about how the Premiere or AVID editing operations are improving and evolving.

In my morning reading I came across a snippet on Digg about the announced demise of Flash in a few years.

Matthew Olsen wrote:

"This is just another step in the long, slow death of the old internet — each retiring bit of technology puts countless creative works at risk of vanishing. Some of these will be dutifully archived by way of conversion or emulation, but many will just cease to be."

A version, perhaps, of "evolve or die?"

So how is your NLE of choice evolving? I know how mine has - and continues to.

Anyone want to school me in this?

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Apple getting ready for the coming new MacPros?
on Aug 2, 2017 at 7:46:31 pm

[Bill Davis] "And I'd argue that you are WAY underselling what Apple created by exposing so much of the database to the user by way of its implementation in X.
It's systematic in a way no other NLE is - at least as I understand it. "


Well... I'm not in the "selling" mode ☺

[Bill Davis] "Or can you call up something like the Keyword HUD and get instant confirmation of the attached metadata tags applied to any frame in Premiere?"

Some of this, yes. Premiere, for example, stores and can display a massive amount of metadata per clip. And there is a specific Metadata panel to see it, along with columns in the project browser. Does it do it in exactly the same way as X? No. But then X misses a lot, too. Like dupe detection in the timeline.

I have no issue with what X does, regarding its database. ProApps has done a very elegant job of presenting a modern, relational database to the user. It's very Filemaker-esque. No criticism of that. My point has been all along that each NLE uses a database and they all choose to do different things with them. Although we have talked about Media Composer, Premiere, and others, having a spreadsheet-style display/manipulation of their databases, that's a pretty inadequate description.

Take, for example, a Media Composer bin. In the thumbnail view, I can visually re-arrange clips based on personal sorting order. Want all the best takes at the top of the bin? Simply slide them there and move all the rest lower in the bin's panel. Freeform - just like rearranging files on your desktop without the OS set to straighten them up. Can't do that in X. Or another example is in Resolve. Graded clips can be displayed in a light table-style display. My point isn't that one way is better or worse - merely that each company chooses to utilize the underlying database in often very unique ways.

But I think we were actually talking about Apple's outreach to the professional, enterprise-class, creative community. ☺

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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andy patterson
Re: Apple getting ready for the coming new MacPros?
on Aug 3, 2017 at 6:38:15 am

[Bill Davis] "I'd love to be educated about how the Premiere or AVID editing operations are improving and evolving."

I don't think that is the case. I doubt you have watched even one Premiere Pro video I have posted let alone all of them. I think Most Avid and Premiere Pro editors will watch a video of FCPX if it posted in this forum. Why not just watch a few Premiere Pro or Avid MC videos on YouTube if you really want to see what the competition can do? I am always checking out the competition and will switch platforms if necesary. I don't think you care about the competition because you are to loyal to Apple to ever switch. Am I correct? Be honest : )

[Bill Davis] "So how is your NLE of choice evolving? I know how mine has - and continues to."

?

You honestly think there is no difference from Premiere 6.5 to Premiere Pro 1.0 or Premiere pro 1.0 to Premiere Pro CC? There is such a huge difference form Premiere 1.0 to Premiere Pro 6.0 I could write a book about. Having said that do you see anyone asking has FCP evolved? I don't even have DR but I have seen DR getting better and better. As a Premiere Pro user I can also see Avid and FCP getting better and better.

I could say so much more but I will be a good boy : )


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Apple getting ready for the coming new MacPros?
on Aug 3, 2017 at 4:19:43 pm

[Bill Davis] "I'd love to be educated about how the Premiere or AVID editing operations are improving and evolving."

News is easy enough to come by passively by just using Twitter and FB. If websites are more your thing I'd suggest starting with the following:

Oliver's blog
https://digitalfilms.wordpress.com/

ProVideo Coalition
https://www.provideocoalition.com/

Creative COW
https://www.creativecow.net/


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Chris Harlan
Re: Apple getting ready for the coming new MacPros?
on Aug 7, 2017 at 8:42:37 pm

[Bill Davis] "I'd love to be educated about how the Premiere or AVID editing operations are improving and evolving.
"


Yeah. I have to agree with the others here that experience suggests otherwise.


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Neil Goodman
Re: Apple getting ready for the coming new MacPros?
on Aug 2, 2017 at 5:18:00 am

If all the Hollywood shops all of the sudden switch to X, more likely they'll just train experienced editors in their respective mediums to use X, rather than hire an editor just because they know the kit.

Avid shops hire FCP 7 and Premiere people all the time and vice versa with the assumption that if their hiring a competent editor, the tool doesn't matter. A few days of working out the kinks is worth it to them for a talented editor. See it happen all the time.

Still waiting after almost 7 years to see X out in the wild here in LA. Obviously Charlie Austin is using it and using it well to deliver high end marketing work but he's the only one I've heard doing so and I hear people talk about X here. When's the shoe going to drop ?


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Bill Davis
Re: Apple getting ready for the coming new MacPros?
on Aug 2, 2017 at 6:53:18 pm

[Neil Goodman] "When's the shoe going to drop ?"

Perhaps you're just monitoring sources pre filtered by your bias?

For example: The project that David Tillman cut entirely on X nearly two years ago for Chuck Braverman's OJ Simpson, The Lost Tapes project - Just snagged a couple of Emmy nominations a couple of weeks ago.

In the X community we've been discussing projects like that and a LOT more for years.

But in case you haven't noticed it - media access has become largely "Balkanized" with people (wittingly or not) increasingly walled off from anything their Google use patterns say they won't act on as readily. So the information street you see gets narrower and narrower.

It's how information access works now.

As an X editor - I see TONS of X content from all over the world.

In order to see stuff on Premiere or AVID - I have to actively seek it out via effort.

That's just the new normal.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Apple getting ready for the coming new MacPros?
on Aug 2, 2017 at 7:50:03 pm

[Bill Davis] "In order to see stuff on Premiere or AVID - I have to actively seek it out via effort."

I get the rest of what you are saying, but on this - huh? As far as Avid, you must have blinders on. As a product in this space, they tend to get more press than anyone else, given the amount of entertainment content touched by either Media Composer and/or Pro Tools.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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greg janza
Re: Apple getting ready for the coming new MacPros?
on Aug 2, 2017 at 8:30:08 pm

[Bill Davis] "As an X editor - I see TONS of X content from all over the world.

In order to see stuff on Premiere or AVID - I have to actively seek it out via effort."


Bill, I'd like some of what you're smoking.

Wikipedia lists seven tv shows cut on FCPX since 2012. I'm sure that list isn't complete or up to date but at the same time it certainly doesn't lead one to think that it's trending upward within the tv or film industry.

I Hate Television. I Hate It As Much As Peanuts. But I Can’t Stop Eating Peanuts.
- Orson Welles


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Neil Goodman
Re: Apple getting ready for the coming new MacPros?
on Aug 3, 2017 at 3:55:41 am

I don't have a bias, I'm cutting on Premiere right now and I hate it. The shop I'm in at the moment didn't ask what I use, nor did I think to ask what they have. I'd rather be using X since Avid isn't available.

People may be using X all over the world on high end cutting edge entertainment, but besides a handful of people there not using it in LA. Sony has a division that does content pieces for theatrical releases and that's the only place I've heard that Switched over to X.

As far as having to go out of your way to see content produced in Avid or Ppro that's kind of a crazy statement to make. I get it your a die hard apple evangelist but come on now?


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Bill Davis
Re: Apple getting ready for the coming new MacPros?
on Aug 3, 2017 at 8:31:11 am

[Neil Goodman] "As far as having to go out of your way to see content produced in Avid or Ppro that's kind of a crazy statement to make."

Not if you understand what I'm saying.

I'm not implying that people in general have trouble seeing examples of work cut in Premiere or AVID (or X for that matter since most programming doesn't come with a "cut on...) label. That's silly.

My point is that nearly everyone's information feeds today are pre filtered by virtue of what you search for and consume most often. If you looked at my information feeds, you'd see that there's a ton of X related news and content in it. That's because it's a specific interest of mine and Google, et al - understand that and feed me more. It's no different than a couple having a baby - starting to search for baby stuff - and finding their feeds full of cribs and formula coupons. It's how the whole internet works now.

If you read about Premiere or AVID or Resolve - you get fed MORE Premiere or AVID or Resolve stories. So much so that it can make you think that the products you prefer are the ones that most others prefer as well, even in cases where that might not be an accurate view of the actual market.

I thought everyone already understood this stuff.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Neil Goodman
Re: Apple getting ready for the coming new MacPros?
on Aug 3, 2017 at 11:30:36 pm

[Bill Davis] "My point is that nearly everyone's information feeds today are pre filtered by virtue of what you search for and consume most often. If you looked at my information feeds, you'd see that there's a ton of X related news and content in it. That's because it's a specific interest of mine and Google, et al - understand that and feed me more. It's no different than a couple having a baby - starting to search for baby stuff - and finding their feeds full of cribs and formula coupons. It's how the whole internet works now.

If you read about Premiere or AVID or Resolve - you get fed MORE Premiere or AVID or Resolve stories. So much so that it can make you think that the products you prefer are the ones that most others prefer as well, even in cases where that might not be an accurate view of the actual market. "


Sure that makes sense, but nothing about your original post put it in that context, or at least I missed it ☺


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Bill Davis
Re: Apple getting ready for the coming new MacPros?
on Aug 4, 2017 at 6:46:35 pm

[Neil Goodman] "Sure that makes sense, but nothing about your original post put it in that context, or at least I missed it ☺"

Neil,

I've been writing regularly in this forum for nearly a decade now.

Forgive me if I presume people will understand some of the context from my prior posts.

That said, if the post wasn't clear, that's on me.

And I'll try to do better.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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andy patterson
Re: Apple getting ready for the coming new MacPros?
on Aug 3, 2017 at 6:49:07 am

[Bill Davis] "For example: The project that David Tillman cut entirely on X nearly two years ago for Chuck Braverman's OJ Simpson, The Lost Tapes project - Just snagged a couple of Emmy nominations a couple of weeks ago."

What is your point? I never even seen it to be honest with you.


[Bill Davis] "As an X editor - I see TONS of X content from all over the world.

In order to see stuff on Premiere or AVID - I have to actively seek it out via effort."


There are movies cut on Avid MC and Premiere Pro but the users of Premiere Pro and Avid don't make movies about it (Off The Tracks) and have get togethers about it like the FCPX users do.


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Bill Davis
Re: Apple getting ready for the coming new MacPros?
on Aug 3, 2017 at 7:22:47 pm

[andy patterson] "There are movies cut on Avid MC and Premiere Pro but the users of Premiere Pro and Avid don't make movies about it (Off The Tracks) and have get togethers about it like the FCPX users do."

It's probably true that those programs have "users" while FCP X has a significant number of global users who can be fairly described as "enthusiasts."

Since Apple spends effectively ZERO to fund or promote that - you might ask why this has happened.

It couldn't be because the time and effort that Apple's NLE team put into really considering how to make improvements in the software during the Legacy to X transition has real-world value that organically resonates with lots of editors?

Naw, It must be because we're all just identically deluded. 😏

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Apple getting ready for the coming new MacPros?
on Aug 3, 2017 at 11:16:26 pm

[Bill Davis] "It's probably true that those programs have "users" while FCP X has a significant number of global users who can be fairly described as "enthusiasts.""

Careful. Your confirmation bias is showing ☺

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: Apple getting ready for the coming new MacPros?
on Aug 4, 2017 at 2:03:10 pm

[Bill Davis] "Since Apple spends effectively ZERO to fund or promote that - you might ask why this has happened. "

BTW - did you type that with a straight face? You know quite well that Apple promotes through the halo effect. I wonder how many gazillions they dropped for the Rock+Siri spots.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Bill Davis
Re: Apple getting ready for the coming new MacPros?
on Aug 4, 2017 at 6:43:30 pm

I'll just ask how many paid banner ads you've seen in THIS space promoting Adobe NLE products - verses how many you see ANYWHERE for Apple NLE solutions.

I think that pretty much tells the story.

I guess it would be interesting to see what would happen if Apple decided to spend a few million in pocket change to wrap the LVCC in huge banner ads next year at NAB — ala what Adobe did a few years back.

I know I'd sure be curious to see what kind of impact that might have on X adoption within the professional ranks.

Particularly if whatever Phil Schiller announced about the MacPro reboot ships near to or before that.

Of course, I personally can't imagine that happening - but it sure would be fun to see the effect.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Apple getting ready for the coming new MacPros?
on Aug 4, 2017 at 7:28:44 pm

[Bill Davis] "I guess it would be interesting to see what would happen if Apple decided to spend a few million in pocket change to wrap the LVCC in huge banner ads next year at NAB — ala what Adobe did a few years back. "

I'm sure you remember the FCP "legacy" days at the LVCC. But it seems they'd have to beat BMD to the punch these days.

[Bill Davis] "Particularly if whatever Phil Schiller announced about the MacPro reboot ships near to or before that. "

Well, we'll see. Circling back to the original point of this thread, my guess is the the workflow lab is intended to try to figure out exactly what type of machine to build in the first place. So I would be greatly surprised if the machine surfaced in 2018, let alone in time for the NAB. I think the professional editing market will be more than satisfied with the iMac Pros, so it will really beg the question whether there is even a market for the new Mac Pro.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Neil Goodman
Re: Apple getting ready for the coming new MacPros?
on Aug 4, 2017 at 9:08:24 pm

I'm just still bummed that Apple, one of the best hardware producers in the world, came out with a long awaited "MacPro", only for it to be admittedly a dud. Now we have to wait another few years to get what we should of just got in 2013. That said - Im almost positive the current imac's and coming Imac pro will have more than enough juice for all editorial needs.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Apple getting ready for the coming new MacPros?
on Aug 4, 2017 at 10:38:24 pm

[Neil Goodman] "I'm just still bummed that Apple, one of the best hardware producers in the world, came out with a long awaited "MacPro", only for it to be admittedly a dud. "

They had dirt in their eye when trying to see where the puck would be. ☺

I work with one of these and am generally happy with it, but of course, you have to augment the connectivity. That approach is pretty typical of Apple and works for some and not for others. Where they really misjudged was in the non-upgradeable, dual GPUs. Only their apps take advantage of that. Other apps drive the system to overheat one of the GPUs, which often causes spikes/glitches in the rendered video. Basically I can trust an iMac or old Mac Pro tower to give me flawless encodes/renders. With the nMP, it's a crapshoot.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters - oliverpeters.com


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Neil Goodman
Re: Apple getting ready for the coming new MacPros?
on Aug 5, 2017 at 12:17:26 am

[Oliver Peters] "I work with one of these and am generally happy with it, but of course, you have to augment the connectivity. That approach is pretty typical of Apple and works for some and not for others. Where they really misjudged was in the non-upgradeable, dual GPUs. Only their apps take advantage of that. Other apps drive the system to overheat one of the GPUs, which often causes spikes/glitches in the rendered video. Basically I can trust an iMac or old Mac Pro tower to give me flawless encodes/renders. With the nMP, it's a crapshoot.
"


Yea I was on one at an old gig for a few months and it worked fine, just glad I didnt invest my own dollars in one.


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Bill Davis
Re: Apple getting ready for the coming new MacPros?
on Aug 6, 2017 at 4:33:33 am

[Neil Goodman] "I'm just still bummed that Apple, one of the best hardware producers in the world, came out with a long awaited "MacPro", only for it to be admittedly a dud. Now we have to wait another few years to get what we should of just got in 2013. That said - Im almost positive the current imac's and coming Imac pro will have more than enough juice for all editorial needs."

Oddly, I see it as an important learning stage for Apple.

The trashcan MacPro seems to me to have been pretty much designed around one central organizing concept - thermal management without trading heat dissipation for cooling noise.

It tries to do with computer airflow - basically what the dyson fans do for cooling. Bladeless, silent airflow.

No, the entire package didn't set the industry on fire. But I bet it DID let a lot of the Apple hardware engineering team enhance their thermal management chops.

Witness how my 2012 laptop used to nearly burn my jeans clad legs in heavy use - while I can use my 2016 model while wearing shorts.

These are VERY complex devices.

If it was super easy to get the balance of price/performance/buildability/affordability/and maybe aesthetics and energy efficiency ALL in perfect balance - we'd probably have a LOT more choices than we do.

My 2 cents.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Neil Goodman
Re: Apple getting ready for the coming new MacPros?
on Aug 6, 2017 at 4:44:09 pm

[Bill Davis] "
Oddly, I see it as an important learning stage for Apple."


I see it as apple getting burned by their own attempt at innovation....again. remember the cube?

They tried to jam a computer into a form factor didnt make sense. They had to develop this crazy airflow schism because they refused to give people something normal that would just work. Nothing wrong with a tower, tried and tested, but they had to be different. Look at where it got them. Same with the touchbar - who needs it, no one certainly asked for it.

I know you'd rather them swing for the fences but some people just need a solution that works especially when investing thousands of dollars.

[Bill Davis] "These are VERY complex devices. "

Yet somehow HP and Dell anf the countless other computer manufacturers can deliver a product without completely throwing out years and years of development out the window and giving customers what they actually need instead of what the assume the customer wants?


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Bill Davis
Re: Apple getting ready for the coming new MacPros?
on Aug 6, 2017 at 9:37:24 pm

[Neil Goodman] "I know you'd rather them swing for the fences but some people just need a solution that works especially when investing thousands of dollars"

Nope. I'm EXACTLY like you.

You want a solution that meets as much of your real world production needs as possible.

So do I.

But I have a slightly different (but equally legitimate) need than you do.

You see, I do a ton of VO work. I'd prefer to do it at my desk. And I'd prefer not to need to build a separate "whisper room" like VO booth to do it in. So a computer that handles its thermal load without sounding like a quadcopter at the same time actually meets my needs.

You're fine with your computer whirring along beside you all day, fine.

I'm not.

So unless somebody comes up with a transparent laptop blimp, it's nice that your problems are being solved - but mine still aren't.

Hey, maybe someday I'll get the FCP X Voiceover tool on an iPad!

THAT would be awesome!

FWIW.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Charlie Austin
Re: Apple getting ready for the coming new MacPros?
on Aug 6, 2017 at 5:20:37 pm
Last Edited By Charlie Austin on Aug 6, 2017 at 5:38:45 pm

[Neil Goodman] "Obviously Charlie Austin is using it and using it well to deliver high end marketing work but he's the only one I've heard doing so and I hear people talk about X here. When's the shoe going to drop ?"

Nah, I'm just a hack. 🐮 FWIW, Sony Worldwide Creative Content (part of theatrical marketing) uses X and has been for quite a while. Not a huge dept, and they don't shout about it, but still. EDIT: ah, I see you mentioned them. :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~I still need to play Track Tetris sometimes. An old game that you can never win~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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