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Avid Finally Drops Free Media Composer Software — Here's What to Expect

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Craig Seeman
Avid Finally Drops Free Media Composer Software — Here's What to Expect
on Jun 29, 2017 at 6:52:25 pm

Avid Finally Drops Free Media Composer Software — Here's What to Expect
http://nofilmschool.com/2017/05/avid-finally-drops-its-free-media-composer-...

Features
Free (email required to download)
4 Video Tracks
8 Audio Tracks
Export either Quicktime Movie H.264 or DNxHD of HD raster (1080x1920) 59.94fps.
Can link to any media (4K, UHD, HD, etc)
Projects can have up to 5 bins



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Michael Gissing
Re: Avid Finally Drops Free Media Composer Software — Here's What to Expect
on Jun 30, 2017 at 12:56:35 am

I saw a comment from an editor friend on FB that said you can't export or import AAF or XML nor can you open a lite project in a paid version? That seems utterly pointless except for the most basic AVID training or non aspirational home movies.

The bar has been set for free software like Resolve, HitFilm etc. This looks like a toy editor by comparison.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Avid Finally Drops Free Media Composer Software — Here's What to Expect
on Jun 30, 2017 at 1:14:01 am

Here's my two scents from just watching the video and reading the interview.

They said it took so long because they couldn't just 'turn off' MC features, they had to make it more approachable to novices. But in the video it looks like that they just turned off MC features and didn't change anythig in the UI to make it more approachable to novices. Of course, making significant UI changes isn't doable if they are trying to easy people into MC.

Also, having a bunch of editors and AE's that have spent years (if not decades) using MC going "Wow, this is so simple!" doesn't exactly sell me that it is, in fact, simple. Put a novice edit in front of it and tell me that it's simple. Save the experts/advanced users for when you tell me that it's capable as well.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Avid Finally Drops Free Media Composer Software — Here's What to Expect
on Jun 30, 2017 at 2:25:12 am

[Michael Gissing] "nor can you open a lite project in a paid version"

Basically assuring you that you can't use this as an offline or rough cut tool. So in order to "protect" sales they also hinder user base growth. The indie film maker can't start their project in First and then at some point say, "Now that I'm confident, like how my project is coming along, I'll spring for the big bucks and get Media Composer with Symphony features."

So by "protecting" facility sales they kill indie growth. Hmm, isn't that part of why Avid can't grow their user base in the first place.

But for the same free, you can start a project in Resolve, finish the project in Resolve, decide you need the facility level features and pay the soon to be reduced cost to move your project to the facility.

Avid, when will they ever learn...



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Oliver Peters
Re: Avid Finally Drops Free Media Composer Software — Here's What to Expect
on Jun 30, 2017 at 2:31:50 pm

[Craig Seeman] "Basically assuring you that you can't use this as an offline or rough cut tool."

That is not its intended purpose. It's not there to give people who could pay a free tool to use instead. That being said, I believe that an update down the road will let you migrate First projects to full projects.

[Craig Seeman] "So by "protecting" facility sales they kill indie growth."

How do you figure that? A) You can use it now to completely start and finish a job. B) Its purpose is as a learning tool-gateway for people who eventually will end up working on full versions.

[Craig Seeman] "But for the same free, you can start a project in Resolve, finish the project in Resolve,"

Time will tell whether or not Resolve actually catches on as the NLE of choice for larger scale work. It certainly sets the bar for a free version, but that's not the end-all-be-all of the business.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Craig Seeman
Re: Avid Finally Drops Free Media Composer Software — Here's What to Expect
on Jun 30, 2017 at 4:02:01 pm

[Oliver Peters] "That is not its intended purpose."

Clearly not and I think that's a mistake.

[Oliver Peters] "I believe that an update down the road will let you migrate First projects to full projects."

I suspect they mentioned that because it's a door they want to keep open.

If Avid decides that their real business is enterprise/storage then the greater demand for shared storage is a good thing. Being able to share projects from First to MC/S might foster that growth and that may be more important than pushing a few more seats of MC.

[Oliver Peters] "
[Craig Seeman] "So by "protecting" facility sales they kill indie growth."

How do you figure that? "



I think a good business goal would be to push the indie filmmaker to move from First to MC. Helping that would be an upgrade path that would allow one to continue the project. Sometimes indie film makers, in course of their work, realize they need to pay for the "power tools."

If First is relegated to "training tool" then filmmakers who want the option to expand their tools during a project are going to look elsewhere.


[Oliver Peters] "Time will tell whether or not Resolve actually catches on as the NLE of choice for larger scale work. It certainly sets the bar for a free version, but that's not the end-all-be-all of the business."

Resolve does have an upgrade path though. One can start in free and, if the project grows to the point where collaboration is important, one can move to the paid version as the project expands. As to whether Resolve catches on as an NLE for large scale work, I think it will for some even though "some" is an unknown quantity.

FWIW nobody has really supplanted Avid for major feature film and broadcast TV work. There's been some erosion it seems and Avid certainly didn't win over the tiers below that.

Looking at the "indie" market I see Blackmagic Resolve eventually becoming more competitive with Adobe. It may not dominant that market but Adobe will probably see erosion as well. This is a market Avid could compete in if First weren't limited to "training tool."



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Shane Ross
Re: Avid Finally Drops Free Media Composer Software — Here's What to Expect
on Jun 30, 2017 at 4:49:43 pm

[Michael Gissing] "an editor friend on FB that said you can't export or import AAF or XML"

You can't export an XML from the full Avid either... It's not in it's wheelhouse. AAF export is mainly used for audio and to get to Resolve. The point of Avid First is to learn how to use Avid, for free. DO be able to do self contained projects to figure out how to learn the app the TV and Feature people use...

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Joe Marler
Re: Avid Finally Drops Free Media Composer Software — Here's What to Expect
on Jun 30, 2017 at 3:26:26 pm

[Craig Seeman] "Export either Quicktime Movie H.264 or DNxHD of HD raster (1080x1920) 59.94fps."

The review on ProVideoCoalition says it can only export up to 720p not 1080 and posts screen caps of this: https://www.provideocoalition.com/media-composer-first-free-and-finally-shi...

However the Avid comparison page says it can export up to 1080 resolution, just not 4k. They may have updated it after the above review: http://www.avid.com/media-composer-first/comparison#General

I can't tell whether Media Composer One supports proxy mode but if it can't do 4k there would be less need for this. It's great for editors and educators to have another fairly full featured free option.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Avid Finally Drops Free Media Composer Software — Here's What to Expect
on Jun 30, 2017 at 4:04:12 pm

[Joe Marler] "I can't tell whether Media Composer One supports proxy mode but if it can't do 4k there would be less need for this"

My understanding is that it can handle 4K sources (except DNxHR) in 1080 timelines.



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Robin S. Kurz
Re: Avid Finally Drops Free Media Composer Software — Here's What to Expect
on Jul 2, 2017 at 5:07:35 pm

Waaaaaaay too little, waaaaaay too late if you ask me.

Even iMovie is upwards compatible (with zero export dance, just a simple menu point!) and can easily edit 4K natively, never mind all the other free options that offer even more. So if you're going to do something like this (especially YEARS too late), then it better be a doozy or AT LEAST on par with the competition, whatever you think that may be. And I personally don't buy the whole "It took so long because it's SO hard to do!" thing. Nothing other than their "super-pro" arrogance kept them from doing it earlier.

Either way, I say they're still screwed. Nice try though. The last rearing of a dead NLE from where I stand.

Seriously… what motivation could anyone outside of the existing, minuscule Avid market have to get going on this? How is this anything but a (failed, if you know what you're looking at) PR vehicle?

- RK

____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich!


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Oliver Peters
Re: Avid Finally Drops Free Media Composer Software — Here's What to Expect
on Jul 2, 2017 at 8:37:34 pm

[Robin S. Kurz] "And I personally don't buy the whole "It took so long because it's SO hard to do!" thing. Nothing other than their "super-pro" arrogance kept them from doing it earlier."

I gather you don't have any direct contact with Avid company members. There's hardly a super-pro attitude. As for why it took so long, no one at Avid said it was hard and that kept them from doing it. It's because there were other corporate distractions along the way. And because they tweaked the formula. For example, 2 years ago they were talking about only saving to the cloud. That went away because the response to that idea wasn't good.

[Robin S. Kurz] "Seriously… what motivation could anyone outside of the existing, minuscule Avid market have to get going on this?"

Most worldwide TV and film production. News operations. College film programs. Certainly not exclusively Avid by any means, but a key player. In some markets the dominant player. If you are new and want to play in those worlds, you need to know the tools.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Neil Goodman
Re: Avid Finally Drops Free Media Composer Software — Here's What to Expect
on Jul 3, 2017 at 1:19:40 am

If it is your goal to work on tv, film, trailers, and commercials than its a no brainer to learn the software. Hardly a dead pice of kit.


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Claude Lyneis
Re: Avid Finally Drops Free Media Composer Software — Here's What to Expect
on Jul 3, 2017 at 4:05:40 am

It clearly dominates the top of the pyramid in terms of the some 400 Hollywood movies produced each year and there is a large support structure built around that. On the other hand it is hard to see how it can dominate the more independent users who will choose something easier to learn and cheaper to use. I think Avid's challenge is how to survive on that small top of the pyramid base.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Avid Finally Drops Free Media Composer Software — Here's What to Expect
on Jul 3, 2017 at 12:07:12 pm

It's not just movies. It's a significant part of TV worldwide. Networks, cable, TV producers, news production, reality TV, etc. Movies simply make for good PR.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: Avid Finally Drops Free Media Composer Software — Here's What to Expect
on Jul 3, 2017 at 12:56:28 pm

[Neil Goodman] "Hardly a dead pice of kit"

"The report of my death was an exaggeration." - Mark Twain

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Robin S. Kurz
Re: Avid Finally Drops Free Media Composer Software — Here's What to Expect
on Jul 3, 2017 at 5:27:39 pm
Last Edited By Robin S. Kurz on Jul 3, 2017 at 5:31:38 pm

[Neil Goodman] "If it is your goal to work on tv, film, trailers, and commercials than its a no brainer to learn the software."

😂😂
Well gee… can I guess? You work in southern CA… with Avid? 😏 Because only someone in that setting could make such a painfully solipsistic claim and think it's true, if by "the software" you actually mean Avid MC. Lite or otherwise.


[Oliver Peters] "Most worldwide TV and film production. News operations. College film programs. Certainly not exclusively Avid by any means, but a key player. "

Oh please. Americans speaking for the rest of the world. Again. 🙄 Can I guess how many of you have actually ever edited professionally outside of your own state, let alone city? I won't even bother asking country

- RK


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Oliver Peters
Re: Avid Finally Drops Free Media Composer Software — Here's What to Expect
on Jul 3, 2017 at 6:24:19 pm

[Robin S. Kurz] "Oh please. Americans speaking for the rest of the world. Again"

I base that on company info and personal contacts I have around the world. In almost every example (excluding probably Ronny's) whenever you hear "so and so moved from Avid to XYZ", just ask them in person. The people on the inside tell you that it's just one department or one unit or one show. Every other part of the operation is either still on Avid or the company uses a bit of everything. BBC is a prime example of that.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Robin S. Kurz
Re: Avid Finally Drops Free Media Composer Software — Here's What to Expect
on Jul 6, 2017 at 8:26:14 am

[Oliver Peters] "The people on the inside tell you that it's just one department or one unit or one show. "

I for one just happen to work with various major as well as smaller European broadcasters AND deal with many production facilities in four countries, teach at a collage (where the students do a parallel three year apprenticeship at various facilities) AND at a university. The apprentices are at over TWO HUNDRED different facilities, from small to big. Of which — and I've asked — maybe TEN actually still have an Avid of some sorts at their facility (almost none above v6 btw) and of those maybe two actually use it in production, as opposed to just keeping it around for legacy projects. The schools themselves? One dropped Avid two years ago (after being mandatory for many years), the other is dropping it next year. Because A) none of the relevant employers use it B) it's a complete nightmare support-wise and C) a bad joke financially compared to any and everyone else.

If someone wants to think a company that was years behind the most recent key technical developments in video and isn't even worth one FOURTH what it was a mere two years ago (one TENTH of about ten years ago), is doing just dandy, is on the up and coming and should be fine for years to come… wow. Certainly not a horse I would personally bet on.


[Neil Goodman] "Whats your point?"

Re-read. It followed quite clearly.


[Neil Goodman] "I apologize for choosing to base my career in a major market. I wont let it happen again. "

🤦🏼‍♂️… speaking of childish. And again, you still consider the Hollywood editing market a major one. I'd say the ivory tower could not be built any higher.

- RK

____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich!


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Neil Goodman
Re: Avid Finally Drops Free Media Composer Software — Here's What to Expect
on Jul 3, 2017 at 7:20:36 pm

[Robin S. Kurz] "[Neil Goodman] "If it is your goal to work on tv, film, trailers, and commercials than its a no brainer to learn the software."

😂😂
Well gee… can I guess? You work in southern CA… with Avid? 😏 Because only someone in that setting could make such a painfully solipsistic claim and think it's true, if by "the software" you actually mean Avid MC. Lite or otherwise.


[Oliver Peters] "Most worldwide TV and film production. News operations. College film programs. Certainly not exclusively Avid by any means, but a key player. "

Oh please. Americans speaking for the rest of the world. Again. 🙄 Can I guess how many of you have actually ever edited professionally outside of your own state, let alone city? I won't even bother asking country…

- RK"




Yes I do live in Southern California and yes the company I work for use's Avid. Whats your point?

I apologize for choosing to base my career in a major market. I wont let it happen again.

Just because you dont live in a market where Avid still thrives, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.


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Scott Witthaus
Re: Avid Finally Drops Free Media Composer Software — Here's What to Expect
on Jul 3, 2017 at 8:50:07 pm

[Neil Goodman] "Yes I do live in Southern California and yes the company I work for use's Avid. Whats your point? "

I think the point is that SoCal and it's market is niche. So trying to impress what is happening in SoCal on the rest of the visual storytelling market is not a good idea.

[Neil Goodman] "I apologize for choosing to base my career in a major market. I wont let it happen again."

Don't apologize. You work in the highest profile market in the world. I congratulate you. But see the comment above.

[Neil Goodman] "Just because you dont live in a market where Avid still thrives, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
"


That's the problem Avid faces. Outside those niche markets, Avid is starting "not to exist". Media Composer First (in my humble opinion) is a desperate attempt to be relevant in non-broadcast niche markets. They release this product and the stock drops over 2% that day.

Avid would have more success by bundling MC First on every Chromebook and educational HP/Dell rather than trying to give it away on it's own. Again, my humble opine only.

Scott Witthaus
Owner, 1708 Inc./Editorial
Managing Partner, Low Country Creative LLC
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Scott Witthaus
Re: Avid Finally Drops Free Media Composer Software — Here's What to Expect
on Jul 3, 2017 at 9:01:37 pm

[Scott Witthaus] "is a desperate attempt to be relevant in non-broadcast niche markets. "

*non-broadcast markets, not non-broadcast niche markets*. Can we not edit posts anymore?

Scott Witthaus
Owner, 1708 Inc./Editorial
Managing Partner, Low Country Creative LLC
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Neil Goodman
Re: Avid Finally Drops Free Media Composer Software — Here's What to Expect
on Jul 3, 2017 at 9:49:14 pm

[Scott Witthaus] "I think the point is that SoCal and it's market is niche. So trying to impress what is happening in SoCal on the rest of the visual storytelling market is not a good idea."

no one is trying to impress anything on anyone. He just simply starts saying Avid is dead, no one in their right mind would use it etc etc. Its a joke.

I fully understand and embrace the niche I work in. No one in this thread tried to say anything otherwise. He just came in with his too little too late, Avid's dead blah blah b.s that he's known for spouting as if its in fact, when in fact he obviously has no clue whats going outside HIS little bubble and thats fine too.


[Scott Witthaus] "Media Composer First (in my humble opinion) is a desperate attempt to be relevant in non-broadcast niche markets."

I dont think thats the case. I think Avid is well aware of what markets and niche they live in. I think this is just for students, aspiring film students/ filmmakers to get a taste of what Media Composer is about and thats it. Bait them with this so they eventually pay for the whole enchilada. I dont think there going after the youtube/social media market at all. It wouldn't sell any of their hardware.


I have a question for you Robin.

If you had one of your students pull you aside and tell you, "Sir, it is my dream to work on hollywood feature films and ill do anything to get there" You wouldn't recommend they learn how to use Avid?


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Oliver Peters
Re: Avid Finally Drops Free Media Composer Software — Here's What to Expect
on Jul 3, 2017 at 10:00:59 pm

It really begs the question, why do so many FCPX users really hate Avid and Avid users? It certainly doesn't seem that the feeling is reciprocal. And before someone chimes in with the reaction of 6 years ago - that largely came from FCP "legacy" users. From what I can tell, most Media Composer users have been indifferent towards FCPX, until they've had to deal with it in a job situation, just like they were with "legacy". We'd all be better off if everyone could dial back on the rhetoric.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Avid Finally Drops Free Media Composer Software — Here's What to Expect
on Jul 3, 2017 at 11:09:01 pm

[Oliver Peters] "It really begs the question, why do so many FCPX users really hate Avid and Avid users? It certainly doesn't seem that the feeling is reciprocal. And before someone chimes in with the reaction of 6 years ago - that largely came from FCP "legacy" users. From what I can tell, most Media Composer users have been indifferent towards FCPX, until they've had to deal with it in a job situation, just like they were with "legacy". We'd all be better off if everyone could dial back on the rhetoric."

Mac/PC, Chevy/Ford, Playstation/Xbox... why do any flame wars exist?

I belong to Facebook groups for all the A's and there are members of each community that revel in throwing shade at other NLEs and their users.


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Scott Witthaus
Re: Avid Finally Drops Free Media Composer Software — Here's What to Expect
on Jul 4, 2017 at 12:46:37 pm

[Oliver Peters] "It really begs the question, why do so many FCPX users really hate Avid and Avid users?"

I don't think this is true at all. Especially not "Avid users". There are passions on each side, some more passionate than others. It's a natural result of having a forum open to all "debates" and all topics. It's like our version of the bar scene in the original Star Wars move.

Personally, I feel a lot of animosity towards Avid is it's stance that "if you want to be a 'pro' you have to use Avid and many "pros" (including myself) laugh that off as totally false and arrogant. And those of us who have been in the business for over 20 years and dealt with Avid's corporate arrogance back when it WAS the only game around feel no sense of sympathy to its' current situation.

I hold my dissatisfaction at Avid mainly over the DS debacle. Those companies (like the one I worked for at the time) that invested hundreds of thousands of dollars in the product just to be killed off (mostly because of the fact that it wasn't enough like Media Composer) hold no love for Avid Technologies. So those folks who say "well, be careful, Apple may just kill FCPX like the did FCPL", talk to me about having two DS stations in my two regional shops (our entire company had over a half dozen) and going from an amazing company like Softimage to Avid, to being promised that DS will be THE HD solution for Avid (whoops, Symphony users then had a sh**) to "there will be full support for DS" to killing the product. Like I said, my sympathies are limited. And now I am sure a lot of ex-Symphony users feel the same way.

I have no issue with Avid editors. I was one, I still have the product "just in case" and I still own a few shares of Avid stock (just for morbid curiosity). And if Avid makes some sort of comeback in the non-niche markets, I will use it again.

[Oliver Peters] " We'd all be better off if everyone could dial back on the rhetoric."

This I can agree with. There are some who love to stir the debate pot (looking at you, Oliver! ☺ ) and that just ramps things up...

Oh yeah, Avid|First....

Scott Witthaus
Owner, 1708 Inc./Editorial
Managing Partner, Low Country Creative LLC
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Oliver Peters
Re: Avid Finally Drops Free Media Composer Software — Here's What to Expect
on Jul 4, 2017 at 1:45:23 pm

[Scott Witthaus] "And those of us who have been in the business for over 20 years and dealt with Avid's corporate arrogance back when it WAS the only game around feel no sense of sympathy to its' current situation"

I've been through all of it. And yes, the company suffered from arrogance, but not any more than most other manufacturers. However, during its most arrogant times, I also found many within the company that were incredibly helpful, so for me, it was never all bad. But Avid was never the only game (EMC, Lightworks, Media 100, Quantel, etc.) - it was just the one that succeeded.

[Scott Witthaus] "I hold my dissatisfaction at Avid mainly over the DS debacle. Those companies (like the one I worked for at the time) that invested hundreds of thousands of dollars in the product just to be killed off (mostly because of the fact that it wasn't enough like Media Composer) hold no love for Avid Technologies."

I understand, but the sales just weren't there for DS. Take a look at Smoke on the Mac. Not much of a different situation really. But that's just the nature of technology. Look at all the investments we've made over the years in camera, VTRs, switchers, etc. Priced a D2, Digibeta, or HDCAM deck lately? ☺

[Scott Witthaus] "There are some who love to stir the debate pot (looking at you, Oliver! ☺ )"

Guilty as charged. Thought-provoking, but not insulting, I hope. My aim is always to be even-handed whenever possible, without being a cheerleader either.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Scott Witthaus
Re: Avid Finally Drops Free Media Composer Software — Here's What to Expect
on Jul 4, 2017 at 1:59:53 pm

[Oliver Peters] "ut Avid was never the only game (EMC, Lightworks, Media 100, Quantel, etc.) - it was just the one that succeeded.
"


Fair enough. But as an ex-EMC user, the only real move back at the time was to Avid. And to pay the six figure price for their turnkey solution.

[Oliver Peters] "I also found many within the company that were incredibly helpful"

There are still a couple hanging on. At least until the next round of layoffs....

Scott Witthaus
Owner, 1708 Inc./Editorial
Managing Partner, Low Country Creative LLC
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Oliver Peters
Re: Avid Finally Drops Free Media Composer Software — Here's What to Expect
on Jul 4, 2017 at 3:11:11 pm

[Scott Witthaus] "Fair enough. But as an ex-EMC user, the only real move back at the time was to Avid. And to pay the six figure price for their turnkey solution."

In the early days, some, but not all, of their systems were 6 figures. But remember, that included very expensive drives (for that time). Also Lightworks was in the same ballpark. And as I recall, the original DS (before Avid) was at least $80K without storage. Remember, that at the time, a decent online bay with decks, CG, and DVE was a $500K-$1M investment. So paying $100K for a Media Composer wasn't unrealistic.

For me personally, it was a great opportunity, for which I'm thankful. As a linear editor at the time, knowing Avid gave me the opportunity to cut films, which I wouldn't have otherwise had, since I wasn't cutting on film. And of course, the comparable systems for film and TV show editing prior to Avid were systems like Ediflex or Montage, which weren't cheap either. By comparison, Avid was relatively affordable.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Scott Witthaus
Re: Avid Finally Drops Free Media Composer Software — Here's What to Expect
on Jul 4, 2017 at 3:45:27 pm

[Oliver Peters] "And as I recall, the original DS (before Avid) was at least $80K without storage. Remember, that at the time, a decent online bay with decks, CG, and DVE was a $500K-$1M investment. So paying $100K for a Media Composer wasn't unrealistic."

Back then, it didn't matter if you were a good editor or not, but how large your credit line was. When FCP-L came out I can remember the howls from Avid shops and editors saying "it's so cheap now every college student can be an editor". My response was "just be a better editor and your clients will stay with you.". How many linear shops went under because they had to compete with NLE shops while still under the weight of loans on linear bays. I worked for one that we had to take voluntarily through re-org. Basically we had dead-money on Henry's and Hals that no one wanted to use anymore. DS killed alot of that market in our company.

We also heard those same howls from linear editors who were threatened (and some extinguished) by Avid and EMC. I remember cutting a show on Avid for NASA at a studio in a public TV station. I was moving stuff around, un-doing, quickly saving version....all the advantages that an NLE brings to the table. This was the first Avid in the area and I had a bit of a crowd around me watching. So after all that, I had actually had to render out a dissolve and an older editor/engineer (because sometimes they were the same person) sniffed and said "give me a switcher and a T-bar and I could have done that in real time..." and walked off. Head in the sand...and now we have Resolve for free. The race to the bottom is over.

But I digress...what were we talking about again? ;-)

Scott Witthaus
Owner, 1708 Inc./Editorial
Managing Partner, Low Country Creative LLC
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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andy patterson
Re: Avid Finally Drops Free Media Composer Software — Here's What to Expect
on Jul 6, 2017 at 9:29:57 am

[Scott Witthaus] "This was the first Avid in the area and I had a bit of a crowd around me watching. So after all that, I had actually had to render out a dissolve and an older editor/engineer (because sometimes they were the same person) sniffed and said "give me a switcher and a T-bar and I could have done that in real time..." and walked off."

What year was it and how much did your Avid cost? Our old school Avid could do a simple dissolve in real-time. I admit you could not do to much without needing to render. It could do color correction and titles easy enough in real-time. All I can say is back in 1998 I thought our Avid Media Composer was pretty cool. Just for the record I used to have to edit using a switcher and tape decks (Beta and 3/4") prior to getting our Avid.


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Scott Witthaus
Re: Avid Finally Drops Free Media Composer Software — Here's What to Expect
on Jul 6, 2017 at 11:19:05 am

[andy patterson] "What year was it and how much did your Avid cost? "

Hey Andy. No sure on this as I was brought in as the editor. Facility provided the gear. And of course I can't remember the exact year! ;-)

Scott Witthaus
Owner, 1708 Inc./Editorial
Managing Partner, Low Country Creative LLC
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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andy patterson
Re: Avid Finally Drops Free Media Composer Software — Here's What to Expect
on Jul 6, 2017 at 6:23:40 pm

[Scott Witthaus] "[andy patterson] "What year was it and how much did your Avid cost? "

Hey Andy. No sure on this as I was brought in as the editor. Facility provided the gear. And of course I can't remember the exact year! ;-)"


It seems like your Avid should have been able to do transitions, PIP, Titles and CC in real-time. Our Avid was based of the Targa 2000 and had a Pinnacle Genie board for the RT. Maybe your system was more like a baby Avid without the Pinnacle Genie board. Who knows? Our system was on a Mac so we also needed a PCI extender because the Mac towers only had 4 PCI slots. Like I said I liked our Avid system. It was so much better than using the switcher and video tape decks.


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Craig Seeman
Re: Avid Finally Drops Free Media Composer Software — Here's What to Expect
on Jul 4, 2017 at 3:11:35 pm

As someone who was both an Avid editor and, later, a facility engineer during the first 12 years of Avid, I share a similar disdain for them.

For those who experienced the pain of their hardware and EOL decisions, keep in mind that, for many, this was at a time when the costs for making moves for a facility were exorbitant. These days, even though there's still some pain involved, the cost of changing NLE or some aspects of infrastructure are trivial BY COMPARISON.

Avid shows little interest in expanding their MC base. Perhaps that's be design since they're really a hardware/storage/enterprise company these days.

I think some hoped that First might have been a move to expand their base. That's not the case.
It may be a training tool to keep the MC talent pool from shrinking which could be a very serious problem given the small broadcast/film niche they serve.

If it were a tool to expand their base one might be able to upgrade to the paid version to finish a project. Not currently possible. It could be the tool where one begins to cut on and then moves to a facility to finish. Not currently possible. This might even upset facilities as people might do the meat of their editing "off site," using facilities only as finishing locations. Dare not upset their niche (at the expense of expanding it).

Yes, they've mentioned future project compatibility but like so much else about Avid's behavior, I'm skeptical about that actualization.

Personally I see First as a reactive move to avert the risk of talent pool lose by attrition. As younger editor grow up on Premiere Pro, FCPX and, in time, Resolve (if it progresses to that point as an NLE), the niche market may be willing to move. The move in NLEs may result in moves in infrastructure as well (which would hit Avid even harder).

While Adobe, Apple, Blackmagic, seem to be trying to expand their base, each with different motives and business models, Avid's posture continues to be defensive.

Of course there's no reason to have animus for a defensive company for anyone who uses other tools expect perhaps those who are primarily proficient on other NLEs seeking new opportunities has Avid base continues to erode relative to the entire professional market using video.

Basically it's "die already Avid" so we can have those jobs without having to learn an NLE that's designed for the '90's with a few bolt ons to stay technically viable.



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Oliver Peters
Re: Avid Finally Drops Free Media Composer Software — Here's What to Expect
on Jul 4, 2017 at 4:11:11 pm

[Craig Seeman] "For those who experienced the pain of their hardware and EOL decisions, keep in mind that, for many, this was at a time when the costs for making moves for a facility were exorbitant."

And I lived through those early days as someone participating in making the buying decisions. I also worked through the earlier decade when prime rate was over 20%. So it's all relative. There were certain early pioneering endeavors that were fraught with problems, like early shared storage. So it wasn't an easy time for company or customer.

[Craig Seeman] "If it were a tool to expand their base one might be able to upgrade to the paid version to finish a project. Not currently possible. "

Correct. Not in THIS version. It's a 1.0 product. I suspect that will change.

[Craig Seeman] "Basically it's "die already Avid" so we can have those jobs without having to learn an NLE that's designed for the '90's with a few bolt ons to stay technically viable."

See, that's an attitude that I simply can't comprehend. That's just the same as people saying "Apple, die already, so we can all use PCs, because they are better". Seems like the same irrational sentiment.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Craig Seeman
Re: Avid Finally Drops Free Media Composer Software — Here's What to Expect
on Jul 4, 2017 at 5:01:14 pm

[Oliver Peters] "[Craig Seeman] "Basically it's "die already Avid" so we can have those jobs without having to learn an NLE that's designed for the '90's with a few bolt ons to stay technically viable."

See, that's an attitude that I simply can't comprehend. That's just the same as people saying "Apple, die already, so we can all use PCs, because they are better". Seems like the same irrational sentiment.
"


It might be coming from animus but I do think there's real workflow issues to contend with. Some people really don't like MC/Symphony and would prefer not to have to learn it if they want to climb the broadcast/feature film ladder.

Regarding Apple, I think some don't like being tied to Apple ProRes which creates ajada when you have to export to it on Windows or, having to deal with importing/exporting FCPXML in certain cross platform workflows. Perhaps there's some annoyance also when one runs into one of those (few?) facilities that have gone FCPX and then being forced to learn it to work there.

I think it is rational when you can't avoid something interfering with your work that you'd just wish would go away whether it's Avid or Apple.



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Oliver Peters
Re: Avid Finally Drops Free Media Composer Software — Here's What to Expect
on Jul 4, 2017 at 6:17:35 pm

[Craig Seeman] "It might be coming from animus"

Hence my earlier question about hating Avid in particular.

[Craig Seeman] "Some people really don't like MC/Symphony and would prefer not to have to learn it if they want to climb the broadcast/feature film ladder."

I realize that's the emotion, but don't you think it's a childish one? If that's what the industry uses, then that's what you have to learn. There are colorists who have to change from one system to another when they move for the job. So they might prefer Resolve, but better become fluent in Baselight if they want the work - and the other way around.

[Craig Seeman] "Regarding Apple, I think some don't like being tied to Apple ProRes"

In my experience, it has nothing to do with ProRes. Just a dislike for Apple in general and Apple users. That's not just in this business, but across the board. They incorrectly view Apple users as believing Apple can do no wrong.

[Craig Seeman] "I think it is rational when you can't avoid something interfering with your work that you'd just wish would go away whether it's Avid or Apple."

Well, maybe. But that's letting you define yourself by the tools. Maybe if some of these folks worked on a dozen or more different systems in their lifetime, the attitude would be different. However, I most often see this attitude from people who've never even used Media Composer. Same the other way around regarding attitudes towards FCPX.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Craig Seeman
Re: Avid Finally Drops Free Media Composer Software — Here's What to Expect
on Jul 4, 2017 at 7:05:36 pm

[Oliver Peters] "But that's letting you define yourself by the tools"

Although I do (mis?)remember a time when some referred to themselves as a "CMX editor" or and "Avid editor" specifically.

Of course the dominance of any one edit system over others is long gone. Although obviously some still dominant certain parts of the industry. Perhaps it's more like Formula 1 racing is not NASCAR racing and I don't think one wants to drive the other (my guess).

It may be that while one can know many tools some may be the master of one and that's the one they want to drive. They simply wish the other would go away. With Avid apparently teetering on the edge of the abyss a few times that's something some can taste which probably riles up the blood lust.



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Oliver Peters
Re: Avid Finally Drops Free Media Composer Software — Here's What to Expect
on Jul 4, 2017 at 7:36:16 pm

[Craig Seeman] " With Avid apparently teetering on the edge of the abyss a few times that's something some can taste which probably riles up the blood lust."

Agreed.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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andy patterson
Re: Avid Finally Drops Free Media Composer Software — Here's What to Expect
on Jul 6, 2017 at 9:08:24 am

[Scott Witthaus] "Personally, I feel a lot of animosity towards Avid is it's stance that "if you want to be a 'pro' you have to use Avid and many "pros" (including myself) laugh that off as totally false and arrogant. And those of us who have been in the business for over 20 years and dealt with Avid's corporate arrogance back when it WAS the only game around feel no sense of sympathy to its' current situation. "



[Scott Witthaus] "I hold my dissatisfaction at Avid mainly over the DS debacle. Those companies (like the one I worked for at the time) that invested hundreds of thousands of dollars in the product just to be killed off (mostly because of the fact that it wasn't enough like Media Composer) hold no love for Avid Technologies. So those folks who say "well, be careful, Apple may just kill FCPX like the did FCPL", talk to me about having two DS stations in my two regional shops (our entire company had over a half dozen) and going from an amazing company like Softimage to Avid, to being promised that DS will be THE HD solution for Avid (whoops, Symphony users then had a sh**) to "there will be full support for DS" to killing the product. Like I said, my sympathies are limited. And now I am sure a lot of ex-Symphony users feel the same way."


I Used to edit on an $80,000.00 Avid Media Composer. It was purchased back in 1998 when they used a Targa 2000 capture card and Pinnacle board to get the RT effects. I don't hate on Avid. Hardware goes obsolete. I thought the Avid was pricey and maybe a DPS system would have been a better option but I didn't have to buy it. I just used it to edit and got paid good money to do so. I admit I did way more live productions than editing but I have no hatred towards Avid. Avid also did and end of life to the Fast Liquid software I used to use. Things change.


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