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Steve Connor
iMac Pro
on Jun 5, 2017 at 5:57:25 pm

Anyone else watching the WWDC keynote? I'm definitely getting an iMac Pro!


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Jimmy Holcomb
Re: iMac Pro
on Jun 5, 2017 at 5:58:34 pm

Holy Smokes

11 Terflops , 128 mem , 4 T3 ports, 10gbe!


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Scott Witthaus
Re: iMac Pro
on Jun 5, 2017 at 6:11:50 pm

Wait....Apple doesn't care about the professional, right? ;-)

Scott Witthaus
Owner, 1708 Inc./Editorial
Managing Partner, Low Country Creative LLC
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Andrew Kimery
Re: iMac Pro
on Jun 5, 2017 at 6:25:28 pm

[Scott Witthaus] "Wait....Apple doesn't care about the professional, right? ;-)"

Only once every 4 years or so. ;)


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Gerry Fraiberg
Re: iMac Pro
on Jun 5, 2017 at 6:27:01 pm

https://9to5mac.com/2017/06/05/apple-teases-upcoming-space-gray-imac-pro-the-most-powerful-mac-ever/

- Gerry Fraiberg
Media Handyman - videographer, editor, photographer, voice over artist.
______________________________________________
http://www.visionandvoice.ca
❖ ❖ ❖


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Gerry Fraiberg
Re: iMac Pro
on Jun 5, 2017 at 6:49:38 pm

https://9to5mac.com/2017/06/05/apple-teases-upcoming-space-gray-imac-pro-th...

- Gerry Fraiberg
Media Handyman - videographer, editor, photographer, voice over artist.
______________________________________________
http://www.visionandvoice.ca
❖ ❖ ❖


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greg janza
Re: iMac Pro
on Jun 5, 2017 at 7:07:27 pm

$5000??? What a deal.

Adobe Premiere 2017.1.1
Windows 10 Pro
Samsung SSD 850 EVO system
Samsung SSD 850 EVO Adobe cache
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 970
OWC Thunderbay 12t x 2 in Raid10 configuration (thru Storage Spaces and Disk Management)


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Bob Zelin
Re: iMac Pro
on Jun 5, 2017 at 9:29:03 pm

the starting price is 5 grand. I have no idea of what the blown out machine will cost.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


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Michael Hancock
Re: iMac Pro
on Jun 5, 2017 at 9:31:53 pm

I bet the new iMac Pro, completely specced out with the max of everything, will easily top $8-$10,000.

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


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Scott Witthaus
Re: iMac Pro
on Jun 6, 2017 at 12:50:15 am

[Michael Hancock] "I bet the new iMac Pro, completely specced out with the max of everything, will easily top $8-$10,000"

Yeah, but if you are really doing this as a "pro", it's not that big a cost. One or two jobs?

Scott Witthaus
Owner, 1708 Inc./Editorial
Managing Partner, Low Country Creative LLC
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Michael Gissing
Re: iMac Pro
on Jun 6, 2017 at 1:00:04 am

Equipment is so cheap these days. No-one want to overpay but really anything sub $10k is nothing to a working professional if it does the job. For me a lot of Apple gear is slightly overpriced for its performance but really not an issue if you base your business on Apple software. I used to and I paid for the best MacPro I could get which in Australia was always overpriced.

My time is worth a lot to me and my clients.


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Herb Sevush
Re: iMac Pro
on Jun 7, 2017 at 4:41:36 pm

[Scott Witthaus] " but if you are really doing this as a "pro", it's not that big a cost. One or two jobs?"


The issue for me isn't the cost as much as it is sinking that cost into a non upgrade-able system. If I'm investing 5K+ I want to know that I won't regret it next year, which is not possible with any closed system, be it Surface or Imac.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Tim Wilson
Re: iMac Pro
on Jun 5, 2017 at 9:36:47 pm

[greg janza] "$5000??? What a deal.
"


That's the starting price.

This from The Verge:

Apple says the computer will ship with an 8-core Xeon processor, with configurations that scale up to an 18-core Xeon processor, 5K display, and an all-new AMD Radeon Vega graphics GPU. You’ll also be able to shell out for up to 16GB of VRAM, up to 128GB of data corruption-protecting ECC RAM, and up to 4TB for SSD storage.


So, what's the delta between an 8-core Xeon and an EIGHTEEN core Xeon? (It's also available as a 10 core).

The base configuration is also only for 8GB VRAM, not 16, and 32GB RAM, not 128. Buying four sticks of 32 ECC RAM from Kingston via Amazon will run you $1322 -- surely only a fraction of what Apple will charge.

Then of course a 4TB SSD, up from the base config of 1TB -- $1500 plus or minus at Amazon. So cranking up RAM, VRAM, and the drives will mostly double the $5000 starting price. I'm going to guess $8999? That's a SKU I could sell with a straight face.

Heck, in a world with a $1000 iPhone, what's a $9999 iMac? Nuthin'. Bring it.

Oh, and most important of all: you know it's a pro machine because it has a 3.5mm headphone jack.



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Steve Connor
Re: iMac Pro
on Jun 5, 2017 at 10:19:48 pm

[Tim Wilson] "So, what's the delta between an 8-core Xeon and an EIGHTEEN core Xeon? (It's also available as a 10 core).

The base configuration is also only for 8GB VRAM, not 16, and 32GB RAM, not 128. Buying four sticks of 32 ECC RAM from Kingston via Amazon will run you $1322 -- surely only a fraction of what Apple will charge.

Then of course a 4TB SSD, up from the base config of 1TB -- $1500 plus or minus at Amazon. So cranking up RAM, VRAM, and the drives will mostly double the $5000 starting price. I'm going to guess $8999? That's a SKU I could sell with a straight face.

Heck, in a world with a $1000 iPhone, what's a $9999 iMac? Nuthin'. Bring it.

Oh, and most important of all: you know it's a pro machine because it has a 3.5mm headphone jac"


Don't care - want one :)


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Tom Sefton
Re: iMac Pro
on Jun 6, 2017 at 12:04:30 am

Max ram upgrade - I reckon to jump from 32 to 128GB it will be $1600
Max GPU upgrade - this will be a modest increase, more like $3-400 extra for the top of the range model
Max ssd - jeez, this is going to be silly money, but who needs a 4TB single ssd drive with the mass market saturation of removable ssd drives, raids and 10GE NAS raids...?

The processor is the big jump - the current Mac Pro had a jump from 4 to 12 core that went from around $3500 to nearly $6800 with nothing else added. I reckon this will push the top end processor into the realms of a $2000 upgrade.

So a 5K edit station with thunderbolt 3 and 10Ge, with a monitor, at least 500GB SSD, 128GB ram, 8GB GPU and an 18 core processor - the sweet spot for most people lusting after one... I reckon $9200 inc taxes.

Which is a lot. But, find a hp or dell with the same specs AND a 5K monitor included and what does that cost?

Really, what does it cost?

Co-owner at Pollen Studio
http://www.pollenstudio.co.uk


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Michael Gissing
Re: iMac Pro
on Jun 6, 2017 at 12:22:57 am

Depends how you upgrade. For me it means swapping out Mobo, CPU, graphics card(s) and often RAM. When you already own monitors, rack cases, power supplies, water coolers (not always reusable), an upgrade is going to be way cheaper for me.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: iMac Pro
on Jun 6, 2017 at 1:09:51 am

[Tom Sefton] "Really, what does it cost?"

Not only that, if this is the iMac, and we know a MacPro is coming, what's that going to be?

And how much? :)


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greg janza
Re: iMac Pro
on Jun 6, 2017 at 1:13:59 am

What does a pc equivalent cost?
A lot less and it's endlessly modifiable and upgradeable.

Adobe Premiere 2017.1.1
Windows 10 Pro
Samsung SSD 850 EVO system
Samsung SSD 850 EVO Adobe cache
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 970
OWC Thunderbay 12t x 2 in Raid10 configuration (thru Storage Spaces and Disk Management)


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Ben McCarthy
Re: iMac Pro
on Jun 6, 2017 at 5:44:43 am

The 18 core CPU alone costs $2000 on these bad boys, coupled that with a Vega GPU which will be $1000 +, factor in a 5K monitor with this quality that's another $1000, that's without Motherboard, RAM, Powersupply, Case, Mouse and keyboard and Apples design.

A Microsoft Surface Pro costs which has a quad core processor:

• 6th Gen Intel Core i7, 16GB RAM
• Ultra-thin 28-inch adjustable PixelSense Display
• Surface Pen, Keyboard and Mouse included
• Windows 10 Pro

is $5500 Australian

I'd take the iMac Pro for $6500 anyday of the week


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andy patterson
Re: iMac Pro
on Jun 6, 2017 at 6:05:46 am

[Ben McCarthy] "The 18 core CPU alone costs $2000 on these bad boys, coupled that with a Vega GPU which will be $1000 +, factor in a 5K monitor with this quality that's another $1000, that's without Motherboard, RAM, Powersupply, Case, Mouse and keyboard and Apples design.

A Microsoft Surface Pro costs which has a quad core processor:

• 6th Gen Intel Core i7, 16GB RAM
• Ultra-thin 28-inch adjustable PixelSense Display
• Surface Pen, Keyboard and Mouse included
• Windows 10 Pro

is $5500 Australian

I'd take the iMac Pro for $6500 anyday of the week"


I think you are referring to the Surface Studio. It depends on the users needs. For some an iMac might be the best option but for others the Surface Studio might be a better option. Keep in mind The MS Surface Studio will probably get a revamp in December or January. I imagine they have a certain amount that needs to sell before revamping can occur. That is not to say Asus, MSI or HP cannot replicate the Surface Studio with better specs by the time the new iMacs start shipping. Having said that Coffee Lake will be here by the end of the year.


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Ben McCarthy
Re: iMac Pro
on Jun 7, 2017 at 6:29:39 am

sorry Surface Studio you are right


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Shawn Miller
Re: iMac Pro
on Jun 6, 2017 at 5:35:16 pm
Last Edited By Shawn Miller on Jun 6, 2017 at 5:36:41 pm

[Ben McCarthy] "
A Microsoft Surface Pro costs which has a quad core processor:

• 6th Gen Intel Core i7, 16GB RAM
• Ultra-thin 28-inch adjustable PixelSense Display
• Surface Pen, Keyboard and Mouse included
• Windows 10 Pro

is $5500 Australian

I'd take the iMac Pro for $6500 anyday of the week"


But the Surface Pro is a touch device aimed at graphic designers. The ergonomics alone seems to point to a different audience than the iMac. I assume the Surface Pro will get a GPU/CPU update at some point, probably sooner rather than later.

Shawn

EDIT: I meant the Surface Studio



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Bob Zelin
Re: iMac Pro
on Jun 6, 2017 at 8:44:40 pm

A blown out HP Z840 is expensive. (And all the guys will jump in and say "but I can build my own PC") -
In the real world, a pro company is going to buy a Z840 or a Dell Precision top of the line.
Add the NVidia GTX 1080ti (the new Radeon card is said to be the equivalent of the GTX 1060 - honestly I don't know the difference).
Now, add the amazing HP Z31X monitor ($4000 retail) that they showed at NAB (auto calibration, selectable LUTs)

now you have an expensive hi end workstation. And I am sure that Boxx make an equivalent, or even faster system.
I don't want to hear "but I can build my own PC for a fraction of the price". Good for you.

So these solutions are both around the $10,000 or a little more per workstation.

The flip side of this is the people that remember that you could buy a cheese grater Mac Pro Quad Core with 4 Gig of RAM, and it would run FCP 7 perfectly for $3000. These days, with Resolve, CC2017, Smoke - and no need for the "video gear" - I guess this price range is ok.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


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Andrew Kimery
Re: iMac Pro
on Jun 6, 2017 at 10:13:25 pm

Since the iMac Pro will use Xeon CPUs does that mean it won't have Quick Sync to speed up H.264 encoding?


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Joe Marler
Re: iMac Pro
on Jun 6, 2017 at 11:21:16 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "Since the iMac Pro will use Xeon CPUs does that mean it won't have Quick Sync to speed up H.264 encoding?"

Intel does not currently put Quick Sync on CPUs with more than four cores, so unless this is changed the iMac Pro will not have Quick Sync. This means it will not have hardware-accelerated encode/decode for H.264, H.265, VP9, AV1 or any wrapper format using those codecs such as AVCHD and XAVC-S. The Mac Pro doesn't have Quick Sync either but that was designed in the pre-4k era and before H.265 was looming on the horizon. H.265 is much more compute-intensive than H.264, therefore needs hardware acceleration even more.

OTOH since Apple makes hardware, OS and (in the case of FCPX) the application, in theory they could rapidly add code to use AMD's hardware acceleration VCE (Video Coding Engine): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_Coding_Engine

VCE like nVidia's NVENC resides on the GPU but is functionally separate from the GPU -- it is a "bag on the side" from an architectural standpoint. Long GOP encode/decode cannot be meaningfully accelerated using traditional GPU methods, it requires fixed-function logic, IOW an ASIC (Quick Sync being one example).

Whether VCE is actually practical would depend on an extensive technical evaluation of performance, image quality, and how many software changes are required at the OS and application layers. It would also depend on how functional and stable the software development framework which supports VCE. If the hardware works but the development libraries and other software does not, or is not available in macOS, then it's not an option.

The lack of Quick Sync in most Xeon CPUs has long been an issue for the video world. It potentially impacts all editing software but some software like Premiere either doesn't use it, doesn't use it on Mac or doesn't it effectively. FCPX has long used Quick Sync very effectively so the impact is significant.

I've never seen a good explanation from Intel or anybody else why Quick Sync is withheld from CPUs with more than four cores. A possible explanation may be it requires GPU on-chip resources, even though the actual encoding logic is separate. This would require Xeon to have the full on-chip GPU which is a significant hit to the transistor budget. Xeon is mostly a server and workstation chip. Servers don't need an integrated GPU and workstations will have a discrete GPU, so putting the integrated GPU on chip would waste transistors. The only loser is the subset of the video editing community that relies on Quick Sync. It was probably a tradeoff.


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Ben McCarthy
Re: iMac Pro
on Jun 7, 2017 at 6:34:42 am

The Radeon Vega is more closely comparable to a 1080ti just to FYI

Radeon Vega:

Better floating-point performance 13,107 GFLOPS vs 10,609 GFLOPS Around 25% better floating-point performance
Significantly wider memory bus 2,048 bit vs 352 bit More than 5.8x wider memory bus
More shading units 4,096 vs 3,584 512 more shading units
More texture mapping units 256 vs 224 32 more texture mapping units

GTX 1080ti

Much higher effective memory clock speed 11,008 MHz vs 2,000 MHz More than 5.5x higher effective memory clock speed
More memory 11,264 MB vs 8,192 MB Around 40% more memory
Higher pixel rate 130.2 GPixel/s vs 102.4 GPixel/s More than 25% higher pixel rate
More render output processors 88 vs 64 24 more render output processors
Higher memory clock speed 1,376 MHz vs 1,000 MHz Around 40% higher memory clock speed


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Tero Ahlfors
Re: iMac Pro
on Jun 7, 2017 at 7:29:27 am

It's like the traschcan but it has a screen. Wheee...


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Andrew Kimery
Re: iMac Pro
on Jun 7, 2017 at 5:08:22 pm

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but people that got a look at it in person said there's no apparent door/hatch to access the RAM like on other iMac's so RAM might not be upgradable.

Apple confirming official support for eGPUs is great news, but that feature isn't expected to be released to the masses until Spring 2018 (and it requires Thunderbolt 3).


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Richard Herd
Re: iMac Pro
on Jun 7, 2017 at 8:47:01 pm

No else said. I will:

2018: iMac Pro running iMovie Pro. wink wink


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