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Provacative: Michael Cioni at NAB 2017 - "Do I have Stockholm Syndrome with Apple?"

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Bill Davis
Provacative: Michael Cioni at NAB 2017 - "Do I have Stockholm Syndrome with Apple?"
on May 4, 2017 at 1:02:14 pm

Definitely worth the time to watch if you care about the future of Apple in video.






Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Doug Metz
Re: Provacative: Michael Cioni at NAB 2017 - "Do I have Stockholm Syndrome with Apple?"
on May 4, 2017 at 3:20:25 pm

Was he kidnapped by Apple? Abducted against his will and held for a long period of time? Forced to use their products until he 'came around'?

No? Hm.

Words mean things. I hate clickbait. He may well have a compelling message, but this kind of thing really twists my onion.

Doug Metz

Anode


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Bill Davis
Re: Provacative: Michael Cioni at NAB 2017 - "Do I have Stockholm Syndrome with Apple?"
on May 4, 2017 at 3:48:25 pm

Michael explains PRECISELY the context and limitations of his use of the title in the opening of his presentation.

One person's clickbait is another persons window into intelligent discourse.

How about you address the ISSUES he addresses, rather than merely the form he uses to package them? Perhaps then we can all benefit from your thinking?

Just a suggestion.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Steve Connor
Re: Provacative: Michael Cioni at NAB 2017 - "Do I have Stockholm Syndrome with Apple?"
on May 4, 2017 at 5:56:38 pm

[Bill Davis] "How about you address the ISSUES he addresses, rather than merely the form he uses to package them? Perhaps then we can all benefit from your thinking?
"


Perhaps you should have made the boundaries of discussion clearer when you made the original post :)


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Tim Wilson
Re: Provacative: Michael Cioni at NAB 2017 - "Do I have Stockholm Syndrome with Apple?"
on May 4, 2017 at 7:19:01 pm

[Steve Connor] "Perhaps you should have made the boundaries of discussion clearer when you made the original post :)"

Well, I'd like to hope that people would watch a video before commenting on it...and the comment on the actual video....but the distinction between debate and kvetching may apparently be too nuanced. πŸ˜…

IT'S NOT MEANT TO BE LITERAL....but as a simile, Stockholm Syndrome is perfectly apt. More than the question whether your commitment to Apple is not only greater than Apple's commitment to you -- which for most people, isn't really a question anymore -- it's raising the question of whether your commitment to Apple might be at the detriment to your long-term best interests.

It's a much more nuanced question than "Does Apple care about pros" , which was always tired. The more relevant question, and the one that Michael explores in a very interesting way is, does Apple's long-term vision for Apple make it likely that they'll deliver the products and services that I need to fulfill my own long-term vision for MY company....or might Apple's well-acknowledged (even by its fans) strategy of NOT pursuing the highest-end performance or expandability, with computers that are iterated very slowly, force limitations on our growth that we would not otherwise impose?

It's not an anti-Apple position, nor does it even a little bit imply that Apple doesn't care about pros. For that matter, Apple has only a smart part to play in the workflows that Panavision or Hollywood-style production at large touch on. But all of those other folks are going pedal to the metal to expand in every direction -- storage, throughput, cameras, grading, monitoring, software for other parts of the production, etc etc.

But Apple's role is typically an important one, especially in Hollywood, historically the most Apple of towns, but increasingly less so, for exactly some of the reasons Michael lays out, and that Greg touches on his his post here. Not "ANTI" Apple, but, "Hmmm, if Apple gave me the solution I needed, I'd be happy to pay for it...but they haven't, so I'm moving on." That was certainly my own story.

Michael raises the stakes because he's in a leadership position that carries considerable responsibility not just for Panavision, but for every production that Panavision touches, in Hollywood and beyond, and he has to look many years down the road. These are exactly the kind of questions he NEEDS to be asking....

...even if you don't. 😁

Certainly the Hollywood/Panavision angle skews the conversation, but that's pretty much the definition of high-profile. 😎 There are very few people of his stature willing to think out loud in front of a room full of people ready to pounce...plus, say, the internet.....so I think that actually discussing what he's saying might be especially productive.

We as a forum mini-community are actually pretty good at thinking about this stuff and discussing it with each other, so I'd like to give it a try again here.

πŸ‘


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Steve Connor
Re: Provacative: Michael Cioni at NAB 2017 - "Do I have Stockholm Syndrome with Apple?"
on May 4, 2017 at 7:47:04 pm

[Tim Wilson] "Well, I'd like to hope that people would watch a video before commenting on it."

and I'd like to hope that if something is put forward for discussion then any element of it is up for discussion without having someone shout at you for discussing the "wrong" thing, especially on a forum that can wander OT as much as this one.

The video is excellent, I watched it while editing some 4K video on my 2009 Mac Pro! as you say it's great that someone in his position is talking about it. Apple certainly dropped the ball at some point on the Pro Computer front and perhaps in the future we might learn the truth of why that happened. I'm just glad they refocusing on it now.


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Tim Wilson
Re: Provacative: Michael Cioni at NAB 2017 - "Do I have Stockholm Syndrome with Apple?"
on May 4, 2017 at 10:41:09 pm

[Steve Connor] "and I'd like to hope that if something is put forward for discussion then any element of it is up for discussion without having someone shout at you for discussing the "wrong" thing, especially on a forum that can wander OT as much as this one."

Fair enough. I hope your reference to (me?) "shouting at you" is a simile and doesn't reflect what you feel I was actually doing. I thought I was being uncharacteristically calm...but since I'm so rarely calm, I don't know exactly what that's like. πŸ˜… Apologies nonetheless.

And I do think that it's always appropriate to consider the propriety of similes. We've actually turned THOSE discussions into some of our most productive. It turns out that FCPX is exactly like a car after all. 😎

Doug is right that imagery related to terrorism shouldn't be taken lightly. Some similes are inevitably going to chafe. I certainly breezed past that, and I shouldn't have. My apologies for that too.

That said, "Stockholm Syndrome" has been used in relation to Apple customers for YEARS. The first reference I can find in a speedy search is from 2007, Do Apple Users Just Have Stockholm Syndrome, by Jacob Rosenberg. He's the head of Infrastructure Engineering at Bloomberg, and asking the same kinds of questions that Michael is asking, for the same reasons, with 2 additional notes.

One, Rosenberg is quick to point out that he's merely adapting David Habib's formulation of Technology Vendor Stockholm Syndrome. David was an infrastructure guy at AOL, so he was speaking very VERY broadly, and didn't mention Apple at all. So far as I can tell, Rosenberg was the first...

And my second note is to underscore that this was 10 years ago. Since then, the combination of "Apple" and "Stockholm Syndrome" has been used MANY MANY times.

The next major round of it was in a series of articles in 2009, started by a Strand Consulting think piece, picked up by 9to5Mac, and best summed up by ZDNet, Are iPhone Users Suffering from Stockholm Syndrome.

The point Strand made is that when Apple customers adamantly defend Apple's tardiness to things like 3G (again, this was 2009), it slows down innovation across the entire industry. We're all better off, says Strand, when we push Apple forward, rather than wholeheartedly embrace its limitations, and dismiss innovation elsewhere as irrelevant.

In 2011, an editorial in the Guardian with the headline The deification of Steve Jobs is Apple's greatest marketing triumph to date picked apart the dynamics of public grief in the context of Steve's passing, but also in the context of Jobs being revered in the vast swaths of tech that he helped destroy. But mostly in the context of how weird it was to talk about "love" in the context of tech at all.

Last month the New York Times ran an editorial entitled You Love Your iPhone. Literally. It argued that people respond similarly to images of the Apple logo and images of the Pope; iPhone users, the author stated, after performing tests on babies, literally loved their iPhones. I was shown this editorial by a PR. Even he was amazed that a company should get such coverage or, to give it its proper term, idiotic drooling. Again, this is odd, because the technology Jobs created is destroying newspapers. It makes me wonder if my trade has developed, en masse, Apple-themed Stockholm Syndrome. We love our murderer.


In 2014, Apple Gives Customers the Stockholm Syndrome (a particularly clumsy locution) was written from a developer's perspective at WWDC that year, bringing up many of these same points in that specific context.

Then last year, IBS Intelligence came at it from the perspective of banking, Apple Pay, Stockholm Syndrome and Sinking Ships: The Future of Mobile Payme....

This isn't even close to all of the examples. There are hundreds, but I chose a small handful to represent just a few of how many different angles from which people have been poking at this question for at least 10 years now. For better and worse, the combination of Apple users and Stockholm Syndrome has been mainstreamed in multiple industries and contexts for a very long time.

I've got some examples of this phenomenon, by whatever name, from the world of FCP in particular (more Legacy than X, actually) that I'll save for the part of the thread where we talk about the points Michael raises. 😊


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Steve Connor
Re: Provacative: Michael Cioni at NAB 2017 - "Do I have Stockholm Syndrome with Apple?"
on May 5, 2017 at 3:57:02 am

[Tim Wilson] "Fair enough. I hope your reference to (me?) "shouting at you" is a simile and doesn't reflect what you feel I was actually doing. I thought I was being uncharacteristically calm...but since I'm so rarely calm, I don't know exactly what that's like. πŸ˜… Apologies nonetheless."

No apology required Tim, I was referring to the OP "shouting" at Doug


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Herb Sevush
Re: Provacative: Michael Cioni at NAB 2017 - "Do I have Stockholm Syndrome with Apple?"
on May 5, 2017 at 11:31:40 am
Last Edited By Herb Sevush on May 5, 2017 at 11:37:21 am

Tim -

First let me apologize for my last posting. Good for a bar, not right for the Cow.

But then this -

[Tim Wilson] "That said, "Stockholm Syndrome" has been used in relation to Apple customers for YEARS. The first reference I can find in a speedy search is from 2007, Do Apple Users Just Have Stockholm Syndrome, by Jacob Rosenberg. He's the head of Infrastructure Engineering at Bloomberg, and asking the same kinds of questions that Michael is asking, for the same reasons, with 2 additional notes."

This misuse doesn't make it right. And I'm not objecting on PC grounds but rather on linguistic ones. Stockholm Syndrome is NOT the same as being in a bad relationship, which is what Cioni is talking about. What distinguishes the syndrome is the mystery of an abductee falling in love with their abductor and the initial coercion is central to the phrase. Physically abusive relationships can fall under this heading, because of the coercive effect of the abuse. Using pyscho babble to raise a simple lover's complaint into a tragedy in 4 acts distorts meaning. It's not Der Ring des Nibelungen, it's a country song -you gave your heart to a cheatin' sort of guy, and you regret it but your still waiting near the phone on a Friday nite. And all the rationalizations that Cioni comes up with should be heard with fiddle and pedal steel in the background.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Doug Metz
Re: Provacative: Michael Cioni at NAB 2017 - "Do I have Stockholm Syndrome with Apple?"
on May 4, 2017 at 7:17:08 pm

[Bill Davis] "Michael explains PRECISELY the context and limitations of his use of the title in the opening of his presentation.

And he completely omits the component of Stockholm Syndrome that makes it what it is. Tragic and terrible. It completely misrepresents the genesis and nature of the relationship.

[Bill Davis] One person's clickbait is another persons window into intelligent discourse.

One person's desire to share a difficult decision and the reasons behind it does not gain credibility by conflating a tragedy with a conundrum. In my opinion.

[Bill Davis] How about you address the ISSUES he addresses, rather than merely the form he uses to package them? Perhaps then we can all benefit from your thinking? "

I will be watching later today, when I've got this project buttoned up and sent to the client. Again, I'm sure he's got a compelling message worthy of discussion. My knee-jerk reaction to the title has left my jaw bruised, but my opinion unchanged. I was not directing my irritation at you, Bill... just venting until I can watch the whole thing. Won't happen again, I can assure you.

Doug Metz

Anode


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Steve Connor
Re: Provacative: Michael Cioni at NAB 2017 - "Do I have Stockholm Syndrome with Apple?"
on May 4, 2017 at 7:38:44 pm

[Doug Metz] "Won't happen again, I can assure you.
"


I REALLY think it's up to you whether it happens again, video was put forward for discussion and you gave your opinion on an element of it. Nothing wrong with that


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Herb Sevush
Re: Provacative: Michael Cioni at NAB 2017 - "Do I have Stockholm Syndrome with Apple?"
on May 4, 2017 at 8:41:49 pm

Cioni misuses the term "Stockholm Syndrome" because, while inappropriate and inaccurate, it sounds sexier than "fanboy" which is the precise and accurate description of his condition.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Ricardo Marty
Re: Provacative: Michael Cioni at NAB 2017 - "Do I have Stockholm Syndrome with Apple?"
on May 7, 2017 at 5:25:01 pm
Last Edited By Ricardo Marty on May 7, 2017 at 5:31:04 pm

Junkie can be another description at least to some. Even if they really create a game changer but take four years to update, to will it be worth it? 12k could be around the corner.

Ricardo Marty


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greg janza
Re: Provacative: Michael Cioni at NAB 2017 - "Do I have Stockholm Syndrome with Apple?"
on May 4, 2017 at 4:04:22 pm

Thanks for posting. Michael Cioni's talk is fascinating and gets to the heart of the Apple conundrum.

My personal take would be that the Apple leadership team is way too late to focus it's energy now on the professional user base and how to better service their needs. However, I can only use my own experience as reference though.

The emotional attachment that Cioni uses to define the unique connection that professional users have with Apple is also I think at the core of why some of us have abandoned the company altogether.

In my own experience, I was completely loyal to the company and it's product line for about 25 years. And for most of that time the products served me well. But the seismic shift that occurred in the editing marketplace starting in 2011 introduced the idea that Apple had abandoned it's commitment to the professional user. For me, that was the start of viewing the company in a much more critical light. I went from loyal customer and fan to an emotionally detached critic.

And the idea of jumping ship was made easier when Adobe fully developed it's platform agnostic creative suite.

I now happily work on a PC and my MBP gathers dust. The decision to leave the company wasn't an easy one due to the length of the relationship but the funny thing is that once the decision was made to leave the fold a feeling of liberation took over.

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Thomas Mathai
Re: Provacative: Michael Cioni at NAB 2017 - "Do I have Stockholm Syndrome with Apple?"
on May 5, 2017 at 12:03:27 am

> And the idea of jumping ship was made easier when Adobe fully developed it's platform agnostic creative suite.<

In being agnostic, it doesn't take advantage of a lot of OS X specific APIs, like FCP X does. I think software written with the OS in mind, no matter the OS, work better than software that tries to be platform agnostic.


I never felt the nMP was a failure. I've used several over the past few years and had no problems with it. It wasn't made upgradable, and that puzzled me, because the whole thing seemed modular based on their initial unveiling.



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Michael Gissing
Re: Provacative: Michael Cioni at NAB 2017 - "Do I have Stockholm Syndrome with Apple?"
on May 5, 2017 at 12:56:13 am

I watched the video. I do not see the comparison to Stockholm Syndrome as valid but it is a good headline. What I see is best described in Johnathan Haidt's book "The Happiness Hypothesis.." where he describes our thought processes via the metaphor of the elephant and the rider. The elephant is our largely sub conscious emotional response and the rider is our conscious rational explainer. Clearly Michael has an emotional attachment to Apple products - perfectly valid as he explains his history and he clearly acknowledges that. So his rider is using logic to explain what he wants to have happen (well what his elephant wants).

His reasons can be analyzed but at the end of the day his actions speak loudest. His use of Apple products is in a constant downward slope. He shows that in graphs clearly and explains why very well. Yet he wants Apple to rise to the occasion in spite of voting with his money to reduce Apple in his version of a pro environment. I too faced the same decision processes and have now reduced my use of Apple products to near zero. So I got to the bottom of the curve faster without the emotional attachment as I have never been Apple exclusive. I've always had multiple hardware platforms and OSs so I have no dominant loyalty to any of them. Interestingly he talked about the 2009 Nehalem MacPro as being the pinnacle of technical achievement for Apple. It's the machine I still have in the rack although it gets almost no usage anymore but it is there when I need it for old Legend jobs which still outnumber X jobs significantly in my area. I think he was wrong however to see that as the pivot point. Hardware matters but I see the software decisions as being the pivot and the release of X was the major pivot point I suspect for most of us not hardware. Now that X's software dev has reached a point where it is a valid choice in the environment Cioni talks about, the hardware issue is now significant.

Interestingly he sees ProRes and Thunderbolt3 as reasons to have faith in Apple. I'm seeing push back against quicktime and ProRes. It is certainly one of the many acceptable delivery codecs but what broadcasters accept is expanding. I see mxf based codecs as totally comparable but being open and not reliant on Apple software, so I think ProRes will decline as a camera and delivery codec. Not a reasonable reason to stick with Apple. Thunderbolt 3 is important but the PC world is ahead of Apple so again I see no reason to see this tech as significant as it simply isn't a delineator, except without it, Apple are dead so I think all Michael can really say is it is a reason to stay. I don't see it as a reason to move back to Apple. And Apple speak from executives is also not a good basis for rational business decisions but it does scratch Cioni's elephant.

I didn't hear any compelling reasons to consider a purchase of any Apple hardware or software now or soon. I will always keep an open mind as I simply don't care about emotional reasons to chose a companies product other than a careful balanced view of how they view their interests and whether that lines up with mine. And if they will be around and on the same page as me for the time I require.

So no to Stockholm Syndrome but yes to a valiant attempt to rationalising his emotions - and they matter so I'm not being dismissive.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Provacative: Michael Cioni at NAB 2017 - "Do I have Stockholm Syndrome with Apple?"
on May 6, 2017 at 12:48:58 am

The appropriate hat for the occasion:

https://throwboy.com/products/make-apple-great-again-hat

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Scott Thomas
Re: Provacative: Michael Cioni at NAB 2017 - "Do I have Stockholm Syndrome with Apple?"
on May 6, 2017 at 4:18:29 am

I wonder if you'd get punched if you wore that into an Apple store.


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Provacative: Michael Cioni at NAB 2017 - "Do I have Stockholm Syndrome with Apple?"
on May 6, 2017 at 10:20:10 am

β€œIt’s like you’re living in a big apartment building and there’s a cool party going on in the penthouse,” he says. β€œThey’ve got mixologists and craft beers and craft whiskeys. Apple is you showing up four hours into the party and trying to sell cans of Bud Light.”

From this interesting article about a side of Apple's business that doesn't directly relate to us here, although maybe it does indirectly:

https://backchannel.com/apple-is-losing-its-shine-in-china-9f12a9626312

Simon Ubsdell
tokyo productions
hawaiki


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: Provacative: Michael Cioni at NAB 2017 - "Do I have Stockholm Syndrome with Apple?"
on May 6, 2017 at 9:55:14 am

One of the things that puzzled me about this interesting presentation was that Cioni talks about ProRes as though DNxHD never existed.

DNxHD was first supported in Avid DS Nitris (Sept 2004), then Avid Media Composer Adrenaline with the DNxcel option (Dec 2004) and finally by Avid Symphony Nitris (Dec 2005).

ProRes was introduced in 2007.

Simon Ubsdell
tokyo productions
hawaiki


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Michael Gissing
Re: Provacative: Michael Cioni at NAB 2017 - "Do I have Stockholm Syndrome with Apple?"
on May 7, 2017 at 3:28:24 am
Last Edited By Michael Gissing on May 7, 2017 at 3:30:44 am

And Dnx is able to be wrapped in QT or mxf. So much more versatile and covers all the same range of ProRes flavours. I would be surprised if they are really uniquely different codecs under the hood.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Provacative: Michael Cioni at NAB 2017 - "Do I have Stockholm Syndrome with Apple?"
on May 7, 2017 at 12:31:38 pm

[Michael Gissing] "And Dnx is able to be wrapped in QT or mxf. "

So is ProRes.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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greg janza
Re: Provacative: Michael Cioni at NAB 2017 - "Do I have Stockholm Syndrome with Apple?"
on May 7, 2017 at 6:04:26 pm

the notion of pro res being a selling point to stay with Apple is kind of ridiculous.

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Tim Wilson
Re: Provacative: Michael Cioni at NAB 2017 - "Do I have Stockholm Syndrome with Apple?"
on May 7, 2017 at 10:02:59 pm

[greg janza] "the notion of pro res being a selling point to stay with Apple is kind of ridiculous."

I think it more gets to the "captivity" of the Apple platform. There are people in this very forum who've expressed how open they'd be to considering no longer using Macs if there was an easy way to provide deliverables in the ProRes format that the client specifies as part of the contract. There are more options than Mac folks typically acknowledge, but none of them is easy as just having a Mac.

This is of course exactly how Apple intended it to work.

In that sense, it's quite realistic indeed. It would be lovely world if we were the ones in charge of specifying what the client received as deliverables. 😁 But that ain't THIS world.


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Michael Gissing
Re: Provacative: Michael Cioni at NAB 2017 - "Do I have Stockholm Syndrome with Apple?"
on May 8, 2017 at 12:11:45 am

[Tim Wilson] "In that sense, it's quite realistic indeed. It would be lovely world if we were the ones in charge of specifying what the client received as deliverables. 😁 But that ain't THIS world."

Broadcast clients are like the rest us as they are also making hard decisions about what computer and software systems they want to use. I have seen deliverable specs changing over the past years to give a bias to DNx and XAVC Intra codecs. ProRes is still on the lists but pragmatically they are offering a broader range of codecs and wrappers to deliver while ProRes is not being indicated as prefered codec. As ProRes is a two step for me so I just don't deliver it anymore and it just doesn't matter. I get ProRes from cameras and I often shoot with that codec as I have had to make sure footage is FCP Legend compatible so I see it as a way of helping editors who still don't want to move but other camera codecs are driving them to Resolve or Pr.

What was inexplicable was that ProRes became a default codec while DNx was ignored despite being available before. I think Apple was lucky that they launched ProRes at a time that broadcasters were largely using Apple hardware and software and phasing out tape deliverables. I think, like Cioni, broadcasters have been sliding down the same decline as they phase in PC hardware and alternate software.


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Michael Gissing
Re: Provacative: Michael Cioni at NAB 2017 - "Do I have Stockholm Syndrome with Apple?"
on May 7, 2017 at 11:56:12 pm

[Michael Gissing] "And Dnx is able to be wrapped in QT or mxf. "
[Oliver Peters] "So is ProRes."

Thanks for that correction. I see that happened with 10.3. I've never seen it in deliverables. ProRes is always requested as QT. I've also never seen it from a camera original. Of course DNx had that capacity years before.

I still think that DNx codecs have an advantage over ProRes as a deliverable format but the point that others have also agreed to is that it isn't a reason to stick to Apple.


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Paul Neumann
Re: Provacative: Michael Cioni at NAB 2017 - "Do I have Stockholm Syndrome with Apple?"
on May 8, 2017 at 6:13:41 pm

Provacative: Michael Cioni at NAB 2017 -5sp


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Tony West
Re: Provacative: Michael Cioni at NAB 2017 - "Do I have Stockholm Syndrome with Apple?"
on May 9, 2017 at 4:44:38 am

Thanks for posting it.

He spoke about one thing that hit home with me and that was longevity (people still using 10 year old macs).

I tened to spend more for products that will last longer. When I bought my first Mac it never went out on me. Never quit running. When I drop 3k on something I want as much as I can get out of it.

It's funny, if someone buys another say, Toyota, because their last one lasted for a decade with no problems I've never heard them called a Toyota fanboy. People just say "I don't blame you. I had one of those also, there're FANTASTIC!

He was right about ProRes also.

Amazon Prime which has maybe the best deal for feature filmmakers, asks for ProRes and of course iTunes does. Those are the platforms I care about having my film on.

Somebody might take other formats along with ProRes, but that's different from saying we won't take your ProRes.

I will be waiting for that new Mac Pro and hopefully cutting on my old one until it comes out.


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Walter Soyka
Re: Provacative: Michael Cioni at NAB 2017 - "Do I have Stockholm Syndrome with Apple?"
on May 9, 2017 at 10:49:21 am

[Tony West] "He was right about ProRes also. Amazon Prime which has maybe the best deal for feature filmmakers, asks for ProRes and of course iTunes does. Those are the platforms I care about having my film on. Somebody might take other formats along with ProRes, but that's different from saying we won't take your ProRes."

Thought experiment! Imagine for a moment that Amazon Prime only accepted video in a proprietary format -- AVI-wrapped, "ProAm" codec -- and that Amazon flat-out refused to license their ProAm codec to any of the usual suspect desktop video developers on the Mac platform. However, they have made it easily available to all developers running AmazonOS, which itself runs on iAmazons, AmazonBooks, and Amazon Pros.

In other words, imagine if you had to buy some expensive and fancy-pants app for your Mac, like NUKE or SCRATCH, or buy and use an Amazon computer, to have access to ProAm and thus your preferred market. How would you feel about the industry relying on a proprietary codec then?

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Tony West
Re: Provacative: Michael Cioni at NAB 2017 - "Do I have Stockholm Syndrome with Apple?"
on May 9, 2017 at 1:29:35 pm

[Walter Soyka] "Thought experiment! "

Not really big on "Thought experiments" Walter. I think too many people already have too much trouble figuring out what's real and somebody's thoughts.

[Walter Soyka] "How would you feel about the industry relying on a proprietary codec then?"

My point wasn't about me liking it or not not liking it. I could name a million things that corporations do that I don't like.

"Some corporation is trying to dominate the marketplace" Ah...............yeah. That's pretty much what they are all trying to do.

Ironically he was pointing out that Apple didn't expect ProRes to become what it did. He was saying the marketplace decided that on their own.

I'm just pointing out the reality that I'M dealing with in the market place and addressing some of the points that he was making. He made a lot interesting points that I agree with and are hard to challenge.


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Richard Herd
Re: Provacative: Michael Cioni at NAB 2017 - "Do I have Stockholm Syndrome with Apple?"
on May 9, 2017 at 8:33:57 pm

[Tony West] "Ironically he was pointing out that Apple didn't expect ProRes to become what it did. He was saying the marketplace decided that on their own."

That's how I understood his comments too.

For Mr. Soyka's thought experiment: imagine having to transcode all the ProAm to ProOpenSource. Whew.


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