FORUMS: list search recent posts

When Apple discontinues . . .

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro X Debates

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Craig Seeman
When Apple discontinues . . .
on Apr 23, 2011 at 7:16:45 pm

There's been some concern about whether certain aspects of FCStudio will be discontinued. I think one should observe their past behavior to at least make a reasonable guesstimate about what and how they might handle things.

With XSan, XServe, Shake, Apple was not quiet about ending them, as painful as such public statements were. In the case of Shake it remained available for considerable time and at a lower cost after the End of Life announcement.

LiveType did quietly disappear but that was because Motion actually had absorbed most of the features including the fonts themselves.

More broadly during the times of radical transition, Apple always accounted for some form of legacy support. products like FCP ran on OS9 and OSX for a time. Classic mode existed for OS9 for a time. Programs were written in "Universal" to support both PPC and Intel for a time and Rosetta was built in as well. Both 32bit and 64bit have had methods of running on the same computer. With Quicktime X, Quicktime 7 Pro remains available.

In the last decade Apple has always been forthcoming when discontinuing something and in the case of software, always allowed for a fairly long transition.

Given the history, if Apple were to drop the other ProApps in the suite they may remain available for some time as they did with Shake or, otherwise, integrated in as LiveType was done with Motion. Personally I don't expect this to be any different.

My own speculation based on the above is that if DVDStudioPro is EOL it may be available separately at a low price for some time. The other parts such as Motion, SoundTrack Pro, Color may either be integrated or possibly purchased as advanced sets with direct communication rather than round tripping. There is no history that Apple would quietly drop major software features/products.

BTW if anyone has examples of Apple dropping a major software product without announcing or extending it for some time, please do post an example.

The only area that is not clear enough to me is what happens to products that include large amounts of elements that would make downloading from the App Store difficult. Think in terms of the Motion elements such as LiveType fonts or the SoundTrackPro loops or DVDStudioPro elements. The only equivalent I can think of is GarageBand which has "packs" that aren't in the App Store. I haven't noticed iDVD in the App Store either but it's still in the boxed set. iWeb also isn't in the App Store but in the boxed set.



Return to posts index

Tom Wolsky
Re: When Apple discontinues . . .
on Apr 23, 2011 at 8:07:58 pm

How do you get the packs for GarageBand now? There's 7.9G of stuff plus another 1.9G of loops with GarageBand. The app itself is 184MB according to the App Store. 10G of stuff is a honking big download.

All the best,

Tom

Class on Demand DVDs "Complete Training for FCP7," "Basic Training for FCS" and "Final Cut Express Made Easy"
Author: "Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials" and "Final Cut Express 4 Editing Workshop"


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: When Apple discontinues . . .
on Apr 23, 2011 at 8:29:16 pm

GarageBand Jam Packs are still available in Apple's Online Store.
http://store.apple.com/us/search?find=garageband+jam+pack&mco=MTA4MTkyMjY

So it may seem that anything too big to download may still be a traditional online order.



Return to posts index


Tom Wolsky
Re: When Apple discontinues . . .
on Apr 23, 2011 at 9:17:13 pm

Maybe that's what they'll do for Motion. Download the software and purchase the components from the online store on a disc. You could use the app without the content if you wanted. I think DVDSP's gone as a standalone. Probably the only disc burning will be the basic menus built into Compressor. Maybe I'm wrong about that, but Apple seems so adamantly anti-disc.

All the best,

Tom

Class on Demand DVDs "Complete Training for FCP7," "Basic Training for FCS" and "Final Cut Express Made Easy"
Author: "Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials" and "Final Cut Express 4 Editing Workshop"


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: When Apple discontinues . . .
on Apr 23, 2011 at 9:43:03 pm

[Tom Wolsky] "Maybe that's what they'll do for Motion. Download the software and purchase the components from the online store on a disc."

Motion as well as SoundTrackPro loops . . . which may as well be JamPacks though sort of.

[Tom Wolsky] "I think DVDSP's gone as a standalone. Probably the only disc burning will be the basic menus built into Compressor."

But has Apple every killed something without allowing it to linger on for some time. That's why I mention Shake. I could see DVDSP being an online store purchase for $99 for example even though development has ended. iDVD and iWeb are still part of the online store box even if they're not in the App Store. Development stopped on iDVD a long time ago. It seems Apple allows things to linger for what may even be a few years. At least that's been their pattern. I can't think of exceptions. Of course things can change but their track record so far is to allow EOL software to go on a few years.

[Tom Wolsky] "but Apple seems so adamantly anti-disc."

I've always found their ant-disc position a bit of a hole in they're thinking. I understand the position but they haven't offered a replacement. Apple's H.264 codec is about the worst in the industry for one thing. I don't mind using online services to deliver client screeners but why not have a MobileMe Professional for that? I'm left to look for 3rd party services or Vimeo, etc. What do I use for long form if not a DVD or Blu-ray especially if I need some basic menus for navigation ease? I can understand "anti-disc" but the lack of a coherent Apple branded alternative is a gap in their thinking IMHO.



Return to posts index

Chris Kenny
Re: When Apple discontinues . . .
on Apr 23, 2011 at 9:59:34 pm

[Tom Wolsky] "Maybe that's what they'll do for Motion. Download the software and purchase the components from the online store on a disc. You could use the app without the content if you wanted. I think DVDSP's gone as a standalone. Probably the only disc burning will be the basic menus built into Compressor. Maybe I'm wrong about that, but Apple seems so adamantly anti-disc."

Honestly, downloading 8 GB of content (or whatever it is) for Motion wouldn't be that big a deal for a lot of people. The 4.25 GB Xcode is already sitting right there in the App Store. (And yes, I'd expect developers to have faster than average Internet connections, in general, but I'd expect the same of media pros.)

It would be a good idea to make provisions for users who don't have access to connections that can handle this sort of thing, but Apple appears to have no particular objection to making this the primary distribution mechanism even for fairly large software.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read What is FCP X’s relationship to iMovie? on our blog.


Return to posts index


Craig Seeman
Re: When Apple discontinues . . .
on Apr 23, 2011 at 10:19:38 pm

[Chris Kenny] "Honestly, downloading 8 GB of content (or whatever it is) for Motion wouldn't be that big a deal for a lot of people."

I usually get my peak download speed from Apple's servers. I always use Apple's OS Combo Updater which tends to be on the large side At my 30Mbps download speed an 8GB download would be just under 40 minutes. Someone with 5Mbps would be just under 4 hours. On the other side there may be the issue of Apple's servers getting hit very hard on an initial release.

Large downloads are technically possible but keep in mind that the GarageBand JamPacks are not available in the App Store so they do seem to avoid large downloads at this point.



Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: When Apple discontinues . . .
on Apr 27, 2011 at 7:44:08 pm

[Craig Seeman] "I usually get my peak download speed from Apple's servers. "

I have downloaded a few of the Adobe Production Suites (cs4 and cs5). Totally great and easy. The whole process was much faster than shipping and installing from disk. I am sure the FCPX install will go just as smooth and easy.

CS5 Production was 13ish GBs. My FCS3 disk images net out @ 47ish GBs, so there's a big difference in file size, but whatever. I never ever use any of the templates in FCS, but the SFX are useful sometimes. Those Audio Content discs make up more than half of the entire FCS3 data size, the other big chunk being the motion content discs.


Return to posts index

Tom Wolsky
Re: When Apple discontinues . . .
on Apr 23, 2011 at 10:32:46 pm

Does the Xcode download install components? All the apps seem to go directly to the Apps folder, no installer. Not sure what FCP X is going to do about this either. Where will the codecs live and how do they get installed? Or will FCP X be the first app that downloads an installer.

All the best,

Tom

Class on Demand DVDs "Complete Training for FCP7," "Basic Training for FCS" and "Final Cut Express Made Easy"
Author: "Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials" and "Final Cut Express 4 Editing Workshop"


Return to posts index


Chris Kenny
Re: When Apple discontinues . . .
on Apr 23, 2011 at 10:40:16 pm

[Tom Wolsky] "Does the Xcode download install components? All the apps seem to go directly to the Apps folder, no installer. Not sure what FCP X is going to do about this either. Where will the codecs live and how do they get installed? Or will FCP X be the first app that downloads an installer."

I haven't downloaded Xcode from the App Store, but it would have to install components; it's not just an app it's a new release of the whole developer tool chain. I don't know how it handles this. There are basically three approaches, that I can see: download an installer that the user manually runs, download an installer than runs automatically, or just download an app to the Applications folder, and have it install components where they need to go the the first time it's launched.

As far as I know under the App Store rules Apple applies to third-parties only the last of these is currently possible, but as I said before, it's Apple's store; they can do what they like.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read What is FCP X’s relationship to iMovie? on our blog.


Return to posts index

Paul Dickin
Re: When Apple discontinues . . .
on Apr 23, 2011 at 10:55:12 pm

Hi
Software Update could deliver a 'Pro App Update' to install system level stuff as in the past?



Return to posts index

Tom Wolsky
Re: When Apple discontinues . . .
on Apr 24, 2011 at 2:29:55 am

Good solution and it could be set to run automatically after installation.

All the best,

Tom

Class on Demand DVDs "Complete Training for FCP7," "Basic Training for FCS" and "Final Cut Express Made Easy"
Author: "Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials" and "Final Cut Express 4 Editing Workshop"


Return to posts index


Rafael Amador
Re: When Apple discontinues . . .
on Apr 25, 2011 at 4:35:29 pm

[Tom Wolsky] "Does the Xcode download install components? All the apps seem to go directly to the Apps folder, no installer. Not sure what FCP X is going to do about this either. Where will the codecs live and how do they get installed? Or will FCP X be the first app that downloads an installer."
Whatever the way, must have an option to keep copies.
Is your right.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


Return to posts index

Tom Wolsky
Re: When Apple discontinues . . .
on Apr 25, 2011 at 4:41:33 pm

Theoretically your apps are being backed up to Time Machine, or whatever backup software you're using. You can download the app any time you want with your Apple ID.

All the best,

Tom

Class on Demand DVDs "Complete Training for FCP7," "Basic Training for FCS" and "Final Cut Express Made Easy"
Author: "Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials" and "Final Cut Express 4 Editing Workshop"


Return to posts index

Rafael Amador
Re: When Apple discontinues . . .
on Apr 25, 2011 at 5:04:00 pm

[Tom Wolsky] "Theoretically your apps are being backed up to Time Machine, or whatever backup software you're using. You can download the app any time you want with your Apple ID."
Then is when Internet start to be a constrain instead of an advantage.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


Return to posts index


Tom Wolsky
Re: When Apple discontinues . . .
on Apr 25, 2011 at 5:25:58 pm

The App Store is a cloud backup in addition to your own hardware backup.

All the best,

Tom

Class on Demand DVDs "Complete Training for FCP7," "Basic Training for FCS" and "Final Cut Express Made Easy"
Author: "Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials" and "Final Cut Express 4 Editing Workshop"


Return to posts index

Michael Sacci
Re: When Apple discontinues . . .
on Apr 27, 2011 at 4:46:39 am

Once you buy the app from the app store you can download all the media from within the app. That is the way Garageband does the video lessons.

IMO, DVDSP is dead as far as we will never see another upgrade to it. But then again there is really nothing to upgrade (other then REMOVING some features, namely HD DVD)


Return to posts index

Paul Jay
Re: When Apple discontinues . . .
on Apr 23, 2011 at 8:23:22 pm

XSan and Osx server are not discontinued.


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: When Apple discontinues . . .
on Apr 23, 2011 at 8:36:59 pm

Apple's XSAN hardware was discontinued.
Example
http://news.softpedia.com/news/ActiveSan-Replaces-Apple-s-Discontinued-Xsan...
The software is still available and works with third party hardware.

Apple's XSERVE hardware was discontinued.
Example
http://www.afp548.com/article.php?story=xserve
The server software is being incorporated into Lion.



Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: When Apple discontinues . . .
on Apr 24, 2011 at 12:09:26 am

[Craig Seeman] "Apple's XSAN hardware was discontinued."
[Craig Seeman] "Apple's XSERVE hardware was discontinued."

Those are both talking about the same thing. That is the discontinuation of the Xserve server computer. It's incorrect to say "Xsan hardware" was discontinued. Xsan has always been only a piece of SAN software. It has been deployed in network configurations with Xserve metadata controllers (servers) and Xserve RAID storage. Both have been discontinued, but the Xsan software itself isn't dependent on these products. You could run Xsan with a MacPro if you like.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: When Apple discontinues . . .
on Apr 24, 2011 at 12:55:57 am

It was the XServe RAID I was thinking of.



Return to posts index

Morten Ranmar
Re: When Apple discontinues . . .
on Apr 24, 2011 at 7:53:12 am

Looks like Apple will maybe give us a replacement option for Xserve:
http://www.macrumors.com/2011/04/21/apple-developing-narrower-rackmountable...

That would be good news for the future of OSX Server, FCServer and XSan.

- No Parking Production -

2 x Finalcut Studio3, 2 x MacPro, 2 x ioHD, Server w. X-Raid


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: When Apple discontinues . . .
on Apr 24, 2011 at 5:36:09 pm

Once Thunderbolt takes off I can see a rack mountable "desktop" with TB ports rather than PCIe and internal hard drives. For desktop it might be mini free standing racks for drives and cards for example. While it might be an offering as early as this year, I could see this being the general design by the end of 2012.

It would force card and drive manufacturers into a standard design otherwise it could well be a "mess 'o stuff" on your desk. Some of us are already experiencing that with piles of firewire, usb, eSata connected drives with their cases all over the place since they can't be stacked.



Return to posts index

Rafael Amador
Re: When Apple discontinues . . .
on Apr 25, 2011 at 4:48:54 pm

[Chris Kenny] "Honestly, downloading 8 GB of content (or whatever it is) for Motion wouldn't be that big a deal for a lot of people."
For many people is not a problem, for other people is just impossible.
The problem in many places is not just the speed (8GBs would take 65 hours for many of my friends), but stability. This without taking in account the money: $$30 is he average price of 1GB up/download in less favored areas of the world: 8GB = 240 USA Dollars download
IT COST ALMOST THE SAME THE DOWNLOAD THAN THE SOFTWARE!!!!!!
SoftwareUpdate has DUPLICATED my spending in FC.
rafael

http://www.nagavideo.com


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: When Apple discontinues . . .
on Apr 25, 2011 at 5:15:07 pm

If you go to the App Store and look at the Xcode reviews, there are major complaints about the download size. For many people it's just not practical.



Return to posts index

Vincent Strader
Re: When Apple discontinues . . .
on Apr 25, 2011 at 7:26:59 pm

Mr. C.S.
Sorry to sort of derail this. But you mentioned SHAKE. I had gotten into Apple full swing just as SHAKE was discontinued. Somebody told me it was the Combustion of the Apple world.

Is there any reason to hope for some new program like SHAKE to come out or has After Effects pretty much become the same type of program?

Thanks,
Vinnie

Message Signature:
I don't have any charming or witty things to put in my signature. So as Peter Griffen says, "That's may mama!"


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: When Apple discontinues . . .
on Apr 25, 2011 at 8:10:05 pm

[Vincent Strader] "Is there any reason to hope for some new program like SHAKE to come out or has After Effects pretty much become the same type of program?"

From Apple? No, although people keep hoping that Motion gets infused with more Shake. If you mean in general maybe Nuke.
http://www.thefoundry.co.uk/products/nuke/



Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]