FORUMS: list search recent posts

The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro X Debates

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Simon Ubsdell
The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults
on Mar 6, 2017 at 9:41:01 pm

Number One on my list is "zoom in/out".

In Media Composer it's Cmd[ and Cmd].

In FCP X it's Cmd- and Cmd=.

In Premiere it's simply - and =.

These are all terrible but perhaps Premiere's is the least terrible. But why are they all so bad?

If you are right-handed, and surely all keyboard shortcuts are designed (rightly or wrongly) with right-handed people in mind, the worst possible thing you can do for a shortcut that is so fundamental to the editing process is to have to either take your hand off the mouse in order to use the right hand side of the keyboard (which all of these require), or shift your hand from its natural position on the left and reposition it on the right to perform this action.

Anyone who has ever learned touch typing will know the virtue of not sliding your hands randomly all over the keyboard, but instead keeping the same basic configuration of your hands at all times.

There is no question in my mind that zoom should be on the left-hand side of the keyboard and that it should not require a modifier key.

My preference has long been (where possible) to map zoom to fit to F1, zoom in to F2 and zoom out to F3, but depending on what other functions you are happy to sacrifice to accommodate them, any other left hand keys will do. (ProTools uses R and T, in addition to the horribly clunky Cmd[ and Cmd], and this works pretty well too.)

I am in principle all in favour of using the default keyboard layout of your NLE, rather than trying to map it to the layout of a different NLE, or simply to scramble things up at random because you think it might be fun. (I've see some jaw-droppingly shocking keyboard layouts from editors who only half-thought through the consequences of their plan.)

But in this case, there is simply no argument about it. Zoom shortcuts situated on the right of the keyboard are fundamentally wrong for right-handed users.

Or have I just become terminally cranky? (More than possible.)

What other keyboard defaults do you think are wrong? (Trust me, my list is much, much longer than this, but I'm not going to burden you with the full extent of it.)

Simon Ubsdell
tokyo productions
hawaiki


Return to posts index

Gregor Queck
Re: The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults
on Mar 6, 2017 at 10:00:54 pm

In FCPX you can simply pinch in/out with the trackpad which I find ulta-useful..... and it zooms around the pointer.....

. . .


Return to posts index

Simon Ubsdell
Re: The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults
on Mar 6, 2017 at 10:05:59 pm

[Gregor Queck] "In FCPX you can simply pinch in/out with the trackpad which I find ulta-useful..... and it zooms around the pointer....."

Rule one of the keyboard is never take your hand off the keyboard.

There are no quicker input devices, and I'm far from convinced that a trackpad might be one of them.

Fun maybe, but that's a different story.

Simon Ubsdell
tokyo productions
hawaiki


Return to posts index


Bill Davis
Re: The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults
on Mar 6, 2017 at 10:25:48 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "If you are right-handed, and surely all keyboard shortcuts are designed (rightly or wrongly) with right-handed people in mind, the worst possible thing you can do for a shortcut that is so fundamental to the editing process is to have to either take your hand off the mouse in order to use the right hand side of the keyboard (which all of these require), or shift your hand from its natural position on the left and reposition it on the right to perform this action. "

First world problems candidate?

That said, I retired all mouse use years ago.

When I use a desktop level machine, I use a Magic Trackpad which I position below center of the keyboard to mimic my Laptop experience.

Voila - Mouse completely unnecessary and my fingers hardly leave the home row during editing.

Problem long since solved.

FWIW.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


Return to posts index

Simon Ubsdell
Re: The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults
on Mar 6, 2017 at 10:31:11 pm

[Bill Davis] "Voila - Mouse completely unnecessary and my fingers hardly leave the home row during editing. "

That sounds fun though I can't exactly visualise it.

However, it doesn't address my point which is that NLE manufacturers including Apple persist in very poor keyboard layouts, reflecting the fact that nobody is actually thinking hard enough about this stuff.

(For me, trackpads and touch bars and Magic This and Magic That are total anathema [my aged hands ache whenever I try to use them for any length of time above 1 minute], but that's again another story and not the subject I was raising here.)

Simon Ubsdell
tokyo productions
hawaiki


Return to posts index

Noah Kadner
Re: The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults
on Mar 6, 2017 at 10:40:15 pm

My favorite unique shortcut in FCPX is Command-S.

Noah

FCPWORKS - FCPX Workflow
FCP Exchange - FCPX Workshops
XinTwo - FCPX Training


Return to posts index


Andrew Kimery
Re: The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults
on Mar 6, 2017 at 11:08:09 pm

My general pet peeve is layouts based on phonetics (ex. B is for Blade, D is for Distort, P is for Pen). Yes, it's a bit easier to learn, but it's typically slow and awkward from a usability standpoint because you hand(s) is constantly sliding all over the place. Is the Distort tool really so popular that it deserves a top level shortcut by default? While some are better than others, I usually find default layouts to be very inefficient (PPro's is probably the worst out of the Big Three, IMO).

I ditched the keyboard as a primary UI tool a couple of years ago and replaced it with a Logitech G13 and a 6 button mouse (I only use the KB for text entry and some rarely used commands). I mapped my most used commands to both of these devices based on priority and by trying to keep similar commands grouped together. For example, on my G13 Mark In, Go To In and Clear In are all on the same key (located right above my middle finger, similar to "I" on a keyboard if your hands are on the home row) and the specific function depends on what modifier is being used. I mapped the modifiers (Shift, Command, Option) to keys that are easily pressed by my thumb which leaves my fingers free to hit any other key on the G13. It's basically like keeping your left hand on home row but having access to 88 commands (22 keys plus shift/command/option for each key). Using the it with Avid isn't quite as flexible because Avid only supports Shift as a customizable modifier, but it's still better than a regular KB, IMO.

It took a while to get it mapped how I liked it, but it really forced me to evaluate what commands I used and how often. Many times when using a keyboard I would leave most of the commands as default because it was just easier even though it wasn't very efficient. Switching to the G13 is easily one of the best things I've done in terms of speed and comfort while editing. It's not quite as life changing as using a control panel for grading instead of a KB/M, but it's close.


Return to posts index

Scott Thomas
Re: The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults
on Mar 7, 2017 at 1:05:52 am

Here's what you need for power editing...


Return to posts index

Richard Herd
Re: The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults
on Mar 7, 2017 at 8:12:44 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "nobody is actually thinking hard enough about this stuff"

We tried.

https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/335/92650


Return to posts index


Simon Ubsdell
Re: The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults
on Mar 6, 2017 at 10:41:14 pm

[Bill Davis] "First world problems candidate?"

I have to say I love this.

I mean it's not as if this whole forum or indeed the whole world of digital editing isn't a first world problem of the highest order.

But is's good to know that using a Magic Something Or Other returns it to a real world issue.

;-)

Simon Ubsdell
tokyo productions
hawaiki


Return to posts index

Bret Williams
Re: The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults
on Mar 6, 2017 at 10:47:22 pm

Hold down Z (your left hand should reside right thee anyyway) and keep your hand on your mouse and draw a marquee around what you want to zoom on. To zoom back out press shift Z.

_______________________________________________________________________
http://BretFX.com FCP X Plugins & Templates for Editors & Motion Graphics Artists


Return to posts index

Simon Ubsdell
Re: The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults
on Mar 6, 2017 at 10:51:52 pm

Doesn't work for zooming out.

Plus it means your right hand is having to collaborate in the zooming process instead of being able to be performing some parallel action.

Simon Ubsdell
tokyo productions
hawaiki


Return to posts index


Simon Ubsdell
Re: The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults
on Mar 6, 2017 at 10:56:31 pm

But worse by far than bad keyboard defaults are operations that you can't map to the keyboard at all.

FCP X has probably the most shocking example of this of any NLE.

I'm sure you know what it is.

Simon Ubsdell
tokyo productions
hawaiki


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults
on Mar 6, 2017 at 11:26:47 pm

I'm not sure about the pros and cons of the design, but it has always struck me that FCP7 (and now X), as well as Premiere Pro, have way too many keyboard mapping options, because of all the possible layers. Somehow the two-layer Media Composer map generally works better - at least for me and many other editors. What I have always heard is that the original Avid design was based on where your left and right hands rest on the keys. That's how we got JKL, for example, which everyone has followed ever since.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Andrew Kimery
Re: The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults
on Mar 6, 2017 at 11:43:41 pm

[Oliver Peters] "I'm not sure about the pros and cons of the design, but it has always struck me that FCP7 (and now X), as well as Premiere Pro, have way too many keyboard mapping options"

Too many options? Bite your tongue, Oliver! ;)


Return to posts index


Oliver Peters
Re: The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults
on Mar 7, 2017 at 12:25:42 am

And how many keys can you remember? ☺

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Andrew Kimery
Re: The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults
on Mar 7, 2017 at 12:36:55 am

[Oliver Peters] "And how many keys can you remember? ☺"

Currently w/my PPro layout I'm up to about 40 programmed keys on my G13 and 6 on my mouse. Like touch typing, after a few weeks it all becomes muscle memory. A key part of it is keeping like-with-like. For example, Play Forward and Go to Next Edit share the same key (the later just gets a modifier). On the flip side I do have some 'random' combos such as Add Marker and Audio Gain on the same key and that's a bit harder to remember at first because those functions aren't associated with one another.


Return to posts index

Simon Ubsdell
Re: The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults
on Mar 7, 2017 at 8:32:44 am

[Andrew Kimery] "Currently w/my PPro layout I'm up to about 40 programmed keys on my G13 and 6 on my mouse."

Thanks to some of your previous posts about this, I started thinking about using a dedicated hardware solution too.

A while back I started using the AVID Artist Transport (now obsolete but still available from some suppliers), which has roughly 50 programmable keys and works well across a variety of applications.

The major bonus is the very nicely engineered jog wheel which can be programmed to all sorts of functions besides jog - this is probably my favourite feature.

For many tasks the Artist Transport is a really great solution. I've got it paired with the Artist Mix as well which makes for a very powerful combination. It's still a tricky question how best to map everything, whether to try and achieve some sort of conformity between applications, and indeed what functions are best not mapped to it.

However, one wider point I would make here is that pretty much no input device is perfect for every task, even within one application.

For example, when I've got a day of rotoscoping or retouching ahead of me, the Wacom gets plugged straight in and nothing gets the job done faster or more precisely. But at any other time, I simply don't find it an efficient way of working at all.

Similarly, a trackpad is a much better input device than a mouse for scrolling through a newspaper article, but in lots of cases it's very inefficient.

The mouse is a pretty awful and antiquated device, but for many tasks it still comfortably outperforms anything else. And for many tasks, the keyboard is streets ahead of anything else for speed.

It's very easy to get seduced by a input device and start thinking that it provides advantages across the board, when in fact it may well be slowing you down in respect of a lot of important tasks.

Simon Ubsdell
tokyo productions
hawaiki


Return to posts index


Andrew Kimery
Re: The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults
on Mar 7, 2017 at 7:14:43 pm

I agree that there is no one right solution for each person and each situation. Though for me my left hand is pretty wedded to the G13 these days. My right hand could bounce between a mouse, a Wacom or a trackpad just depending on the situation (or if I feel an RSI coming on).

[Simon Ubsdell] "The mouse is a pretty awful and antiquated device, but for many tasks it still comfortably outperforms anything else. And for many tasks, the keyboard is streets ahead of anything else for speed."

Compared to the QWERTY keyboard the mouse is just a child. 😉

IMO the ubiquity of the keyboard is it's greatest asset. People already know where to find the "B" key so saying "B is for Blade" is pretty dead simple. With a new hardware device you are asking people to learn two things, the physical layout of the inputs on the device plus the functions attached to those inputs. Years ago I used JLCooper's panels for color grading with Apple Color and I never got around to learning of any of the tertiary soft keys/buttons on the device. I used the transport controls and controls directly related to grading, but the dozen or so keys for saving, jumping between tabs, etc., largely remained untouched.


-Andrew


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults
on Mar 7, 2017 at 7:41:54 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "Though for me my left hand is pretty wedded to the G13 these days. My right hand could bounce between a mouse, a Wacom or a trackpad just depending on the situation (or if I feel an RSI coming on).
"


That's the case for me. I almost have to use a pen as otherwise, things start to hurt too much. The trouble is, most of the time the pen is really for me, but it's not the best for every case.

Also, I have trouble with the pen in Pr. When I am on my laptop, i have to use the trackpad to scrub position/scale parameters. When I am on my desktop, I have to grab the Wacom mouse to scrub parameters because the pen doesn't scrub those specific parameters, but I can scrub the timeline, or hover scrub. I'm sure this is some sort of user error, but it's strange none the less.


Return to posts index

Simon Ubsdell
Re: The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults
on Mar 7, 2017 at 9:01:08 am

[Oliver Peters] "What I have always heard is that the original Avid design was based on where your left and right hands rest on the keys. That's how we got JKL, for example, which everyone has followed ever since.
"


I think there's a good case to be made that the AVID (default) mapping is the most efficient for working exclusively with the keyboard (though it's not without anomalies). I sense that there was a lot of clever thinking that went into it that other NLEs haven't ever matched. My gripe is that there seems to have been a lot of laziness here.

Simon Ubsdell
tokyo productions
hawaiki


Return to posts index

Brett Sherman
Re: The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults
on Mar 7, 2017 at 1:32:55 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "I think there's a good case to be made that the AVID (default) mapping is the most efficient for working exclusively with the keyboard (though it's not without anomalies). I sense that there was a lot of clever thinking that went into it that other NLEs haven't ever matched. My gripe is that there seems to have been a lot of laziness here."

When I switched from Avid to FCP 7 I kept the Avid keyboard layout. I liked it, but it was also because I didn't want to learn a whole new set of commands. When I switched to FCP X, I committed to learning the new layout. The Avid keyboard layout is designed for additive and subtractive, 3-point in-out editing. To over simplify, Avid's editing is frame-based. FCP X's is clip-based. I almost never set Ins and Outs on the FCP X timeline, like I did all the time with Avid. Commands like Lift, Extract, Clear In, Clear Out not to mention using 6 keys for Video and Audio track selection don't translate well to FCP X's connected timeline.

But I'm sure you're right that FCP X's layout can be improved. I just don't think it's awful (like FCP 7's was).

I also agree with you on specialized work surfaces. I'm not interested, if nothing else, because I edit on multiple workstations and on the road with a laptop. I don't want to become attached to an individual device. As far as mouse versus keyboard. Keyboards are good for instantaneous actions (blade, marking in-out, connect, etc.). Mice are good for variable input (skimming, parameter adjustment, etc.) Using both appropriately is the best strategy.

--------------------------
Brett Sherman
One Man Band (If it's video related I'll do it!)
I work for an institution that probably does not want to be associated with my babblings here.


Return to posts index

Robin S. Kurz
Re: The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults
on Mar 12, 2017 at 6:47:16 pm

[Brett Sherman] "But I'm sure you're right that FCP X's layout can be improved. I just don't think it's awful (like FCP 7's was)."

No one keyboard layout, no matter the app, is everything to everyone. Which is why you have something called the Command Editor?? I can either sit around and lament about how horrible every trivial everysomething is (if I have too much time on my hands) or simply change matters and get on with life. My choice. 😉

And no kidding as far as 7 is concerned. Never understood why the various edit functions were on F-keys… huh? And I hardly knew anyone that even knew they existed i.e. used them because of it. Highly unintuitive.

- RK

____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich!


Return to posts index

Simon Ubsdell
Re: The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults
on Mar 12, 2017 at 6:51:30 pm

[Robin S. Kurz] "No one keyboard layout, no matter the app, is everything to everyone."

What's interesting about this thread is that it was only FCP X editors who thought it was a specific criticism of FCP X, rather that what it was: a generalised criticism of all NLEs.

Sometimes very specific details are interesting to examine more closely because they can potentially throw light on a bigger picture.

Simon Ubsdell
tokyo productions
hawaiki


Return to posts index

Robin S. Kurz
Re: The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults
on Mar 12, 2017 at 6:56:55 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "only FCP X editors who thought it was a specific criticism of FCP X"

Just a crazy-wacky guess here, but maybe… just maybe… it was because you called out a specific FCP X shortcut? I know… it's a stretch… 😏

- RK

____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich!


Return to posts index

Simon Ubsdell
Re: The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults
on Mar 12, 2017 at 7:00:46 pm

[Robin S. Kurz] "Just a crazy-wacky guess here, but maybe… just maybe… it was because you called out a specific FCP X shortcut? I know… it's a stretch…"

But that's eaxctly what I didn't do - I specifically referenced the shortcuts for Premiere and Media Composer in the same breath and without distinction.

In Media Composer it's Cmd[ and Cmd].

In FCP X it's Cmd- and Cmd=.

In Premiere it's simply - and =.


Selective blindness there?

Simon Ubsdell
tokyo productions
hawaiki


Return to posts index

Robin S. Kurz
Re: The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults
on Mar 12, 2017 at 7:16:24 pm

Sure, Simon. Whatever. Never mind that you are the one suddenly making this "an FCP X specific" thing right out of left field. But feel free to point the finger at others (me) in an attempt to project the underlying disingenuousness, we can take it. I mean, how could anyone be so completely stupid-fanboy, seeing that this is a post in the FCP forum? Totally crazy, right? 🙄 Had I commented on the Avid shortcuts it still, somehow, somewhere, would of course been turned into some kind of FCP X fanboy thing yadda yadda yadda, because that's the spiel here… I get it. 😴💤

I merely answered to the FCP X example of your "problem", not the others, since I don't know the others off the top of my head, nor will I speak to their "worseness" bla bla bla. Turning that into some sort "Ooooh, the FCP guys are going all defensive crazy again!" thing is just plain…

… oh never mind. Do continue. It's important. 👍🏼

- RK

____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich!


Return to posts index

Steve Connor
Re: The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults
on Mar 12, 2017 at 8:13:04 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "What's interesting about this thread is that it was only FCP X editors who thought it was a specific criticism of FCP X, rather that what it was: a generalised criticism of all NLEs.
"


Some see windmills where there aren't any :)


Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults
on Mar 12, 2017 at 8:50:44 pm

[Steve Connor] "Some see windmills where there aren't any :)"

And they sometimes those "windmill seers" get Broadway plays written about them - but typically only ONCE and certainly not regularly!

; )

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults
on Mar 7, 2017 at 2:37:05 am

[Simon Ubsdell] "I'm sure you know what it is.
"


A/V Output?

Custom Roles?




Save?


Return to posts index

David Lawrence
Re: The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults
on Mar 7, 2017 at 1:59:46 am

I think you're being cranky. 😉

Frankly, I don't care what keyboard buttons are mapped to zoom in/out because the first thing I do with any program where zoom is relevant is map to the side buttons on my mouse. I use a Logitech Anywhere MX which has two side buttons that ride just about the thumb. I use front for zoom-in, back for zoom out. Works for NLE's, DAWs, and even Finder and browser windows (as forward and back commands). Feels totally natural and is super intuitive and easy to use. Problem solved! :)

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research

linkedIn: http://lnkd.in/Cfz92F
vimeo: vimeo.com/album/2271696
web: propaganda.com
facebook: /dlawrence
twitter: @dhl


Return to posts index

Simon Ubsdell
Re: The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults
on Mar 7, 2017 at 8:17:33 am

[David Lawrence] "I think you're being cranky."

You're right of course.

But interestingly no-one has stepped up and claimed that any of these default shortcuts is a good idea.

Everyone, it seems, is using an alternative method to avoid having to be stuck with the defaults.

Which suggests that I'm cranky but not wrong.

;-)

Simon Ubsdell
tokyo productions
hawaiki


Return to posts index

David Lawrence
Re: The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults
on Mar 7, 2017 at 7:53:28 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "Everyone, it seems, is using an alternative method to avoid having to be stuck with the defaults.

Which suggests that I'm cranky but not wrong.

;-)"


touché! ;)

_______________________
David Lawrence
art~media~design~research

linkedIn: http://lnkd.in/Cfz92F
vimeo: vimeo.com/album/2271696
web: propaganda.com
facebook: /dlawrence
twitter: @dhl


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults
on Mar 7, 2017 at 2:55:02 am

[Simon Ubsdell] "What other keyboard defaults do you think are wrong? (Trust me, my list is much, much longer than this, but I'm not going to burden you with the full extent of it.)
"


Since I have been in Pr, the keyboard command that is the weirdest for me is duplicate. command-shift-/ (or command-?)

Every time I need to I duplicate I say to myself, "command-shift-wtf?", it helps me remember.

As weirdly complicated is "enable", command-shift-e.

Zoom, in X, I use the zoom tool and lasso (Pr works the same), but I see your point in putting a zoom control set on the left side. I don't know what I would give up to zoom on left, though.

Premiere's constant track height adjustment on mouse scroll is maddening. So are tracks, they will never be enough kb shortcuts to manage tracks and track selection. It's so much easier to just hit q and throw your selection in timeline and adjust if you need it.

Pr has a weirdly empty default kb shortcut set. More often than not, going to search for a shortcut ends up empty, like replace edits of any sort which are unassigned by default in Pr.


Return to posts index

Andrew Kimery
Re: The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults
on Mar 7, 2017 at 5:51:26 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "Pr has a weirdly empty default kb shortcut set. More often than not, going to search for a shortcut ends up empty, like replace edits of any sort which are unassigned by default in Pr."

I know, it's just weird. And the FCP 7 keyboard layout is also oddly incomplete as well.


Return to posts index

Simon Ubsdell
Re: The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults
on Mar 7, 2017 at 8:38:02 am

I completely agree.

Premiere's shortcuts are just bizarre.

I think I'd have to nominate Cmd-Shift-E as the worst of the worst. Not only is it using two (!) modifiers for a function primary enough it deserves an unmodified keystroke, but it's also a very uncomfortable single-handed action.

Simon Ubsdell
tokyo productions
hawaiki


Return to posts index

Walter Soyka
Re: The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults
on Mar 7, 2017 at 10:46:12 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "Pr has a weirdly empty default kb shortcut set. More often than not, going to search for a shortcut ends up empty, like replace edits of any sort which are unassigned by default in Pr."

As an After Effects user, Premiere's default shortcuts mess me up big-time every couple weeks. After Effects uses Comma and Period for the very benign operation of zooming the composition window. Premiere uses Comma and Period for the very serious operations of insert and overwrite. Pretty much any time I want to see some kind of detail in the Pr's program monitor, I've done three or four overwrite edits before I figure out what's going on. Thankfully, Undo is mapped to Ctrl+Z in both apps.

The FCP keyboard shortcuts in Premiere are even worse. As covered in another thread, I need to hold the pen to fiddle constantly with the UI, but I'm right-handed, and all the primary FCP keybindings are on the right side of the keyboard.

I think Discreet got it nicely. The classic Smoke keybindings are really pretty good; they're designed for left-handed operation, while the pen is in your right hand. They don't address Simon's zoom critique, but a classic Smoke op would handled that gesturally with the pen.

Smoke hotkeys:
https://knowledge.autodesk.com/search-result/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/2017/...

Brian Mulligan hits the high notes:
https://www.premiumbeat.com/blog/smoke-hotkeys-you-should-customize-to-work...

For visual thinkers:
http://logickeyboard.com/shop/autodesk-smoke-linux-3151p.html

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults
on Mar 7, 2017 at 3:33:53 pm

[Walter Soyka] "As an After Effects user, Premiere's default shortcuts mess me up big-time every couple weeks. After Effects uses Comma and Period for the very benign operation of zooming the composition window. Premiere uses Comma and Period for the very serious operations of insert and overwrite."

In general, there's a disconnect between the Premiere and AE teams in a lot of things, especially UI design and menu layout. Even more true across the wider spectrum of Adobe creative apps. However, there seems to be a big effort over the last few years to unify this. Of course, it's not like Motion/FCPX/LogicProX are consistent either.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Richard Herd
Re: The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults
on Mar 7, 2017 at 8:15:57 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Premiere and AE"

Like the command for getting out of typing text. Why are they different?


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults
on Mar 7, 2017 at 8:24:05 pm

[Richard Herd] "Like the command for getting out of typing text. Why are they different?"

You mean, when you hit enter after changing the name, the selection goes down to the next clip in Pr?


Return to posts index

Richard Herd
Re: The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults
on Mar 7, 2017 at 11:58:47 pm

OMG. That's so silly.

But I meant in AE when I hit ESC it deletes what I was doing, but in the Pr titler it is done. See also: illustrator and photoshop. argh.


Return to posts index

Robin S. Kurz
Re: The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults
on Mar 12, 2017 at 6:56:30 pm

[Walter Soyka] "As an After Effects user, Premiere's default shortcuts mess me up big-time every couple weeks."

Interesting. Because the epitome of two-fold stupid imho is that FCP X uses "A" for the default selection tool, but Motion on the other hand uses ⇧S which is probably the most obscure shortcut possible for probably the most important tool. What is on "A" in Motion? Believe it or not the "Record Keyframes" function… You wanna talk "messing you up"? Try that one.

Of all the things that they haven't unified across the two (such as certain keyframe behavior, which I thought was completely superfluous), that somehow is still one of those things that haven't made the cut… for the worse.

- RK

____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich!


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults
on Mar 7, 2017 at 3:29:55 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Premiere's constant track height adjustment on mouse scroll is maddening. "

Oh, I LOVE that. Great feature in my opinion. Especially for audio waveforms. I wish it were in X.

[Jeremy Garchow] "Pr has a weirdly empty default kb shortcut set."

Agreed. I tend to use (and tweak) the FCP7 keyboard map. Seems the most natural to me these days, especially since Premiere's design is closer to FCP7 than anything else.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Scott Witthaus
Re: The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults
on Mar 7, 2017 at 8:57:32 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Premiere's constant track height adjustment on mouse scroll is maddening. So are tracks, they will never be enough kb shortcuts to manage tracks and track selection."

Bingo.

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


Return to posts index

Tony West
Re: The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults
on Mar 8, 2017 at 1:01:51 am

[Simon Ubsdell] "In FCP X it's Cmd- and Cmd=.
"


Zoom in X command + and zoom out command - right?


Make sense to me. The plus key and minus keys are on the left on my keyboard.

I remap all of my modifiers that I use a lot to one single key.


Return to posts index

Robin S. Kurz
Re: The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults
on Mar 12, 2017 at 5:09:54 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "In FCP X it's Cmd- and Cmd=."

????

It's ⌘+ and ⌘- here. Just as it is with every other app I have and can think of that has a zoom of sorts. E.g. Photoshop and every version of FCP to date as far as I can recall.

Can't say that using Q, W, E and D as the shortcuts for the main edit functions could be considered lazy either, but rather very well thought out.

- RK

____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich!


Return to posts index

Simon Ubsdell
Re: The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults
on Mar 12, 2017 at 6:02:05 pm

[Robin S. Kurz] "It's ⌘+ and ⌘- here. "

No, it really isn't. It's Cmd/- and Cmd/=.

It's Cmd/plus and Cmd/minus if you're using the extended keyboard.

On the non-extended keyboard, Cmd Plus (i.e. Cmd/Shift/=) zooms the filmstrip not the timeline itself. Just as Cmd/Underscore (i.e. Cmd/Shift/-) zooms out from the filmstrips.



I'm talking about timeline zooming, not filmstrip zooming.

Simon Ubsdell
tokyo productions
hawaiki


Return to posts index

Simon Ubsdell
Re: The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults
on Mar 12, 2017 at 6:20:07 pm

From the FCP X manual:



I thought you taught this stuff?

Simon Ubsdell
tokyo productions
hawaiki


Return to posts index

Robin S. Kurz
Re: The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults
on Mar 12, 2017 at 6:32:17 pm
Last Edited By Robin S. Kurz on Mar 12, 2017 at 6:40:39 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "I'm talking about timeline zooming, not filmstrip zooming."

Both zooms use the same shortcut. Timeline, viewer, library, event (in filmstrip). All zoom with the same shortcut. And really, technically, I'd say one could easily argue that that IS the plus key, even on the english keyboard. So yeah, ⌘- and +. Not a hard case to make in that context imho. Or would ⌘-SHIFT-= somehow make matters better, just for the sake of being "more logical" or whatever it is you're arguing is so horrible? Somehow I highly doubt it. So yeah… I'd say cranky first world problem. 😏


[Simon Ubsdell] "I thought you taught this stuff?"

Don't recall ever saying I teach it in english.

- RK

____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich!


Return to posts index

Tony West
Re: The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults
on Mar 12, 2017 at 7:29:41 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "It's Cmd/plus and Cmd/minus if you're using the extended keyboard."

You didn't say which keyboard at the top of your post. You just said this "In FCP X it's Cmd- and Cmd=."

Had you said on a "short keyboard" it's "In FCP X it's Cmd- and Cmd=." that would have been more accurate.

I work on an extended keyboard, and the + and - keys are the closest keys to the mouse. No problem.

Just out of curiosity how would you do it differently for the short keyboard?


Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults
on Mar 12, 2017 at 8:46:57 pm
Last Edited By Bill Davis on Mar 12, 2017 at 8:52:49 pm

Two people doing the exact same thing.

One sees it one way
The other sees it another way.

Because the place they START from mentally is not precisely the same.

In this case, the starting point is maybe what form of keyboard you sit as most often.

For a thousand other debates here, the starting point is more likely the original system you were trained on - or the style your first teacher conditioned you into, or the shortcuts you've encountered and come to value that I might have skipped over in favor of others more suitable to the tasks I do most often.

On another forum I just had a sports oriented editor explain his use of the term "melts" to me in a post - something in 30 years of editing I had never once heard. I didn't feel it made me any editor. Just an editor who's never worked in a specific shop that uses THAT terminology.

I sometimes wish we could all be a tiny bit less pissy here - myself included - but then I realize that this is often the place I come to relax after some of my MOST stressful problem solving work is done - so I'll just issue another blanket apology for the times I am unreasonably "tetchy" here.

FWIW.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


Return to posts index

Simon Ubsdell
Re: The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults
on Mar 13, 2017 at 3:10:58 pm

I assumed all you Starbucks Warriors had no use for an extended keyboard. Isn't this what the future is meant to look like?



;-)

Simon Ubsdell
tokyo productions
hawaiki


Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: The world's worst NLE keyboard shortcut defaults
on Mar 13, 2017 at 8:53:19 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "I assumed all you Starbucks Warriors had no use for an extended keyboard. Isn't this what the future is meant to look like?
"


Ooooh, Starbucks. How corporate.

REAL editors prefer back-alley artisanal coffee shops featuring vegan pastries amidst the constant murmer of ecologically relevant chatter.

And enthroned in those coffee shops seats rest hoards conditioned to INSTANT gratification, unwilling and quite possibly psychologically unable to WAIT to make their latest J cut.

It's currently sunny and 87 degrees outside my window here in Scottsdale, Arizona.
The day awaits...


Obviously that means there must be a café seat somewhere nearby - where I may SIMULTANEOUSLY edit, soak up vitamin D - and seamless transact international business!

For the universe to offer me less is to FAIL me.

Take away the TOUCHBAR, (which I actually don't have) and how can I possibly enjoy my life anymore?

/s

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]