FORUMS: list search recent posts

Apple shill David Pogue busted

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro X Debates

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Aharon Rothschild
Apple shill David Pogue busted
on Jul 7, 2011 at 3:44:39 am

http://gawker.com/5818625/nyt-tech-columnist-spanked-for-flagrant-violation...

Star tech writer David Pogue has been publicly admonished by his editors at New York Times on ethics again, for charging flacks $159 each to learn how to get into his column. How many times must this happen, David?

Pogue's "Pitch Me, Baby" presentation explained, by example, just how to get on the good side of David Pogue. "I'm one of the guys public-relations people work with," Pogue wrote on his website. "This talk, geared for PR professionals, also offers a few of the most hilariously bad, and impressively good, pitches I've seen in my days at the Times."

possibleimpossible.com


Return to posts index

Chris Kenny
Re: Apple shill David Pogue busted
on Jul 7, 2011 at 3:55:59 am

[Aharon Rothschild] "Star tech writer David Pogue has been publicly admonished by his editors at New York Times on ethics again, for charging flacks $159 each to learn how to get into his column. How many times must this happen, David?

Pogue's "Pitch Me, Baby" presentation explained, by example, just how to get on the good side of David Pogue. "I'm one of the guys public-relations people work with," Pogue wrote on his website. "This talk, geared for PR professionals, also offers a few of the most hilariously bad, and impressively good, pitches I've seen in my days at the Times.""


What is the purpose of posting this? All the info from Pogue's column that's relevant to the FCP X discussion was also given to other outlets such as Studio Daily, and has now been confirmed by Apple in the FAQ and via reports out of tonight's London event.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


Return to posts index

Scott Sheriff
Re: Apple shill David Pogue busted
on Jul 7, 2011 at 8:03:35 am

[Chris Kenny] "What is the purpose of posting this?"

It's not that hard to understand the relevance of the OP pointing this out, considering the size of David Pogue's megaphone at the NYT, and other media outlets. He has written much about X, most of which has had a rather positive spin that seems to be swimming upstream against a larger tide of negative opinion. That has led some to question his expertise, or judgment.
The NYT's readers' representative Arthur Brisbane doesn't have a dog in the FCP X fight, but he does have an opinion on Pogue regarding conflict of interest in the Public Editors Journal:
"My predecessor, Clark Hoyt, wrote about an ethical quandary caused by another of Pogue’s many ventures. Pogue had created “The Missing Manual” series of guides to tech products, and in August 2009 his manual on Apple’s new Snow Leopard operating system was about to be released at the same time he was reviewing Snow Leopard for the Times. This conflict led The Times and Pogue to include an ethics and disclosure note on his Times Topics page.

The “Pitch Me” presentation might strike some as pretty harmless. But there is a reason why The Times ethics policy proscribes it. Times readers deserve to be assured that journalists don’t get too cozy with the P.R. professionals who strive to influence coverage. A virtual army of publicists, media specialists and others stands ready every day to infiltrate the news with stories that help their employers.
".
The entire piece seems pretty relevant, and can be read here:
http://publiceditor.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/06/times-curbs-pogues-pr-appe...

A guy in Pogue's position needs to be squeaky clean, and avoid all perceived conflicts in interest.
Pogue spends a lot of time writing how-to books, and giving talks about products made by popular technology companies. And coincidentally often reviews them as well. Even if he receives no direct compensation from them, it seems he has a financial stake in the sales of these products doing well since that might lead to more sales for his related services and products. This latest incident, combined with previous similar run-ins with the NYT readers' representative and standards editor gives the impression that Pogue exercises poor judgment and has a difficult time understanding the NYT ethics rules, in regards to product reviews and conflict of interest.

Scott Sheriff
Director
http://www.sstdigitalmedia.com


"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ---Red Adair

Where were you on 6/21?


Return to posts index


Chris Kenny
Re: Apple shill David Pogue busted
on Jul 7, 2011 at 1:55:56 pm

[Scott Sheriff] "It's not that hard to understand the relevance of the OP pointing this out, considering the size of David Pogue's megaphone at the NYT, and other media outlets. He has written much about X, most of which has had a rather positive spin that seems to be swimming upstream against a larger tide of negative opinion. That has led some to question his expertise, or judgment."

The value in Pogue's coverage of FCP X has been the fact that he's been passing on information he was given by Apple (usually but not always accurately), with full disclosure that he was simply passing on information he was given by Apple. The kind of ethics issues raised by the behavior discussed in this thread don't really come into play there.

Raising this ethics issues here seems a lot like sour grapes on the part of people who tried to discredit the information Pogue was passing on (most of which has now been confirmed). It simply has no relevance to the ongoing discussion of FCP X.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


Return to posts index

Adam McCune
Re: Apple shill David Pogue busted
on Jul 7, 2011 at 2:34:49 pm

You need to seriously rethink this - he's a columnist. This isn't hard news, and there is no "ethics violation" in massaging PR sources. He gets on their good side, every journalist does this.

People just LOOOOOOOVVVVEEEEEE to hate this guy, don't they?

Writer/Radio host/Community Media Advocate


Return to posts index

Scott Sheriff
Re: Apple shill David Pogue busted
on Jul 7, 2011 at 3:35:15 pm

[Adam McCune] "You need to seriously rethink this - he's a columnist. This isn't hard news, and there is no "ethics violation" in massaging PR sources. He gets on their good side, every journalist does this."

Clearly the people at the NYT don't agree with your point of view, saying that this does in fact violate their ethics standards. Go read the column. This is not the first time that he has had the NYT (his employer) come down against him regarding conflict of interest, and the column points out Pogue having conflict of interest issues as recently as the Snow Leopard release. Are we seeing a pattern here? If the paper you write for says you have a conflict(s) of interest, that would seem like the bottom line.
And I would disagree that only hard news has ethics standards. Consumer reporters, while not hard news, still have to abide by ethics rules, including avoiding conflict of interest.
So if the folks writing your paycheck don't give you a hall pass on this, that pretty much says it all.

Scott Sheriff
Director
http://www.sstdigitalmedia.com


"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ---Red Adair

Where were you on 6/21?


Return to posts index


Adam McCune
Re: Apple shill David Pogue busted
on Jul 7, 2011 at 8:20:52 pm

My apologies, I actually READ the article (ah, duh!) and I get it. Not cool at all....I thought this was just more useless bitching, but the guy is kind of a *warm turd.

*Note: No one paid me to say that.

Writer/Radio host/Community Media Advocate


Return to posts index

Brian Langeman
Re: Apple shill David Pogue busted
on Jul 7, 2011 at 12:49:45 pm

[Chris Kenny] "All the info from Pogue's column that's relevant to the FCP X discussion was also given to other outlets such as Studio Daily, and has now been confirmed by Apple in the FAQ and via reports out of tonight's London event."

What about when he said they were working with RED? Then you could check the RED forum and find out straight from RED's employees that the statement was not true at that time.


Return to posts index

Chris Kenny
Re: Apple shill David Pogue busted
on Jul 7, 2011 at 1:50:16 pm

[Brian Langeman] "What about when he said they were working with RED? Then you could check the RED forum and find out straight from RED's employees that the statement was not true at that time."

I dismissed this at the time as Pogue misunderstanding what he was being told, because he's a journalist with no specific knowledge of these issues. Others tried to use it to discredit all the other info he was passing on from Apple.

The other info turned out to be right.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


Return to posts index


Brian Langeman
Re: Apple shill David Pogue busted
on Jul 7, 2011 at 3:52:46 pm

[Chris Kenny] "The other info turned out to be right."

But the RED info is one of the most important things to me. You can't just "dismiss" that.


Return to posts index

Chris Kenny
Re: Apple shill David Pogue busted
on Jul 7, 2011 at 4:21:27 pm

[Brian Langeman] "But the RED info is one of the most important things to me. You can't just "dismiss" that."

Huh? I wasn't dismissing the importance of the feature, I was dismissing Pogue's information about it. We don't really know anything on the subject of R3D support at this point. My guess is that Pogue was passing on a corrupted version of something about some sort of mechanism to allow FCP X to be extended to support more codecs, but we'll have to wait and see.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


Return to posts index

Michael Hancock
Re: Apple shill David Pogue busted
on Jul 7, 2011 at 4:50:03 pm

[Chris Kenny] "We don't really know anything on the subject of R3D support at this point. "

??

We know it's not natively supported and that, when FCPX launched, Red wasn't working with Apple to provide native support. We know it's the only NLE that doesn't support native .r3d files. We know that Apple has made no official statement about .r3d support. That's pretty substantial to quite a few people. To say we really don't know anything about .r3d support is rather dismissive.

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


Return to posts index


Chris Kenny
Re: Apple shill David Pogue busted
on Jul 7, 2011 at 4:56:21 pm

[Michael Hancock] "We know it's not natively supported and that, when FCPX launched, Red wasn't working with Apple to provide native support. We know it's the only NLE that doesn't support native .r3d files. We know that Apple has made no official statement about .r3d support. That's pretty substantial to quite a few people. To say we really don't know anything about .r3d support is rather dismissive."

I obviously mean we don't know anything about Apple's future plans with respect to R3D support. Which is true. Is there some reason you're being pointlessly argumentative?

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


Return to posts index

Brian Langeman
Re: Apple shill David Pogue busted
on Jul 7, 2011 at 5:38:40 pm

[Chris Kenny] "I obviously mean we don't know anything about Apple's future plans with respect to R3D support. Which is true. Is there some reason you're being pointlessly argumentative?"

You originally said in your reply that other outlets reported the same information as David Pogue. I can't recall other outlets relaying information about collaboration with Red, as Pogue did. Then you dismiss Pogue's info about it, assuming a miscommunication.

But we don't have the luxury of assuming these things. If you're a journalist at the NYT, then it's your JOB to ACCURATELY convey the facts. Whether Pogue considers himself a "journalist" or an "opinion writer" isn't even relevant in this case.


Return to posts index

Aharon Rothschild
Re: Apple shill David Pogue busted
on Jul 7, 2011 at 6:04:54 pm

Whats interesting here is that Pogue passed over a far more interesting story. Apple clearly shifted direction with FCP X and instead of taking a hard look at how that shift would effect the user base Pogue went to great lengths to refute the issues raised by FCP users, by quoting, some argue incorrectly, from Apple PR sources.
As a Tech writer on the receiving end of 300+ comments about FCP X, Pogue should be asking and answering some larger questions about one of the most controversial product releases since Windows Vista.
Who's interests did his articles serve?

possibleimpossible.com


Return to posts index


David Jahns
Re: Apple shill David Pogue busted
on Jul 7, 2011 at 6:22:28 pm

I think the relevant point to this whole NY Times mess is Apple's cowardice in going to Pogue, rather than, say Gary Adcock or anyone who would know what the hell they were talking about.

That, to me, says LOTS about Apple's direction and target for FCP-X.

David Jahns
Joint Editorial
Portland, OR


Return to posts index

Chris Kenny
Re: Apple shill David Pogue busted
on Jul 7, 2011 at 7:55:06 pm

[Brian Langeman] "You originally said in your reply that other outlets reported the same information as David Pogue. I can't recall other outlets relaying information about collaboration with Red, as Pogue did. Then you dismiss Pogue's info about it, assuming a miscommunication."

Yes, part of the reason I dismissed Pogue's comments on collaboration with Red was that other outlets weren't reporting the same thing. I'm not entirely sure what your point is here.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


Return to posts index

David Roth Weiss
Re: Apple shill David Pogue busted
on Jul 7, 2011 at 6:38:35 pm

[Chris Kenny] "
I obviously mean we don't know anything about Apple's future plans with respect to R3D support. Which is true. Is there some reason you're being pointlessly argumentative?"


Interesting? Your tea leaves are always perfect, but when others read theirs, it renders their arguments invalid.

You of all of the posters on this forum have defended your various positions time and time again by prognosticating the future of FCP X and putting down others who doubt your vision or who may not share your faith.

Is there some reason you Chris Kenny are pointlessly argumentative?


David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new tutorial: Prepare for a seamless transition to FCP X and OS X Lion
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/FCP-10-MAC-Lion/1

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


Return to posts index

gary adcock
Re: Apple shill David Pogue busted
on Jul 7, 2011 at 7:52:29 pm

[Brian Langeman] "But the RED info is one of the most important things to me. You can't just "dismiss" that."

Rant <
Actually we can dismiss it (just to be arguemenative)
We do not care about you at all. We all care about ourselves more than we care about you.
and Why does everyone else think there workflow is more important than Mine is?

>Rant

Brian,

IMHO it is so confusing right now, this is all crazy. I am re-writing stuff as it is being released due to the speed of changes here - take a breath, things will get better, but its not going to happen in a day or a week.

Right now, everything is working towards the Lion release (next week?)


No "true" Pro is going to be jumping to new versions of their base toolset until it has been tested and tried extensively. FCP X is what 3 weeks old?

IF we want to talk in FCS 3 terms, that shipping period would mean that the first boxes would just starting to arrive at Apple dealers in small town USA. The internet has not only accelerated the delivery time but the angst and fear surronding everything that people do not know.

The world has not ended. The sun is shining (were I am at). If it does not work out your way, thats life, there are a couple of other viable solutions to work with if FCP X is not going to work for you.

gary adcock
Studio37

Post and Production Workflow Consultant
Production and Post Stereographer
Chicago, IL

http://blogs.creativecow.net/24640



Return to posts index

Brian Langeman
Re: Apple shill David Pogue busted
on Jul 7, 2011 at 8:15:52 pm

Gary,

Don't know how much, if any of that was sarcastic hehe. But I think you know that I'm far from the only one who places a good R3D workflow as pretty important.

As far as the world ending, I am not distressed one bit! I transferred my Macs over to CS 5.5 last week, and am quite pleased with my findings!

I'm just giving Chris Kenny some of his own medicine. But unlike him, I am not about to find every single thread on the internet which talks positively about apple or FCPX and try and derail it.


Return to posts index

gary adcock
Re: Apple shill David Pogue busted
on Jul 7, 2011 at 9:56:01 pm

[Brian Langeman] "Don't know how much, if any of that was sarcastic hehe."

Very wise. < snicker >

" I am not about to find every single thread on the internet which talks positively about apple or FCPX and try and derail it."

I agree, I don't have that kind of time right now, I can barely keep up with my workload that does not include writing about stuff.

gary adcock
Studio37

Post and Production Workflow Consultant
Production and Post Stereographer
Chicago, IL

http://blogs.creativecow.net/24640



Return to posts index

David Roth Weiss
Re: Apple shill David Pogue busted
on Jul 7, 2011 at 6:19:45 pm

[Chris Kenny] "All the info from Pogue's column that's relevant to the FCP X discussion was also given to other outlets such as Studio Daily, and has now been confirmed by Apple in the FAQ and via reports out of tonight's London event."

That's your spin entirely Chris, and you're coming off sounding like a moderator or arbiter of sorts, which you are not.

As one of the forum leaders here, unfortunately charged with the role of arbiter
from time to time, let me say that Aharon was entirely within his rights to post an article or message questioning David Pogue's veracity.

Journalists like Pogue with even the specter of impropriety do a disservice to all, especially to their readers and to other journalists with integrity.


David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new tutorial: Prepare for a seamless transition to FCP X and OS X Lion
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/FCP-10-MAC-Lion/1

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


Return to posts index

Chris Kenny
Re: Apple shill David Pogue busted
on Jul 7, 2011 at 8:19:27 pm

[David Roth Weiss] "That's your spin entirely Chris, and you're coming off sounding like a moderator or arbiter of sorts, which you are not."

Could you please explain what information Apple released via Pogue, that was cited in this forum, has not been borne out, other than the Red workflow information, which was identified as being incorrect at the time?

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


Return to posts index

Scott Sheriff
Re: Apple shill David Pogue busted
on Jul 7, 2011 at 8:48:53 pm

[Chris Kenny] "Could you please explain what information Apple released via Pogue, that was cited in this forum, has not been borne out, other than the Red workflow information, which was identified as being incorrect at the time?"

Sometimes spin is more about the information that's left out, and who that omission benefits.

Scott Sheriff
Director
http://www.sstdigitalmedia.com


"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ---Red Adair

Where were you on 6/21?


Return to posts index

David Roth Weiss
Re: Apple shill David Pogue busted
on Jul 7, 2011 at 9:57:49 pm

[Chris Kenny] "Could you please explain what information Apple released via Pogue, that was cited in this forum, has not been borne out, other than the Red workflow information, which was identified as being incorrect at the time?"

Personally, I'm still waiting for substantive information on record from Apple. Hearsay, even if verified by the multiple non-official, non-Apple people you like to quote, remains nothing but hearsay until Apple goes on record to verify it.

Perhaps you will understand more about my position on this kind of information when you later read my coming missive about Apple's reported plan, posted by Craig Seeman on this forum characterized as "news from Apple," in which Craig writes: "#2 Ability to buy FCP7 licenses for enterprise deployments coming in the next few weeks…"

BTW, notice Chris, that I wrote " Apple's reported plan." I didn't write "Apple's plan." Do you see a difference? Do you know why I wrote that? Do you know why I'm pointing it out to you?


David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
http://www.drwfilms.com

Don't miss my new tutorial: Prepare for a seamless transition to FCP X and OS X Lion
http://library.creativecow.net/weiss_roth_david/FCP-10-MAC-Lion/1

POST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™


Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums.


Return to posts index

Chris Kenny
Re: Apple shill David Pogue busted
on Jul 7, 2011 at 10:02:23 pm

[David Roth Weiss] "Personally, I'm still waiting for substantive information on record from Apple. Hearsay, even if verified by the multiple non-official, non-Apple people you like to quote, remains nothing but hearsay until Apple goes on record to verify it."

Most of the substantive content from Pogue's articles on FCP X a) was independently verifiable by anyone with a copy of FCP X (he was giving Apple's responses to various misapprehensions about the software) or b) has been confirmed by the FAQ Apple released.

As far as I can tell, nobody is relying on Pogue's credibility with respect to any arguments presently being made in this forum.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read our blog.


Return to posts index

Scott Sheriff
Re: Apple shill David Pogue busted
on Jul 8, 2011 at 12:01:02 am

[Chris Kenny] "Pogue's credibility"

Oxymoron

Scott Sheriff
Director
http://www.sstdigitalmedia.com


"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ---Red Adair

Where were you on 6/21?


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]