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What do you think of this future?

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Ricardo Marty
What do you think of this future?
on Nov 9, 2016 at 1:18:48 am

Adobe just presented this? a great tool in the right hands

http://nofilmschool.com/2016/11/adobe-project-voco

Ricardo Marty


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Shawn Miller
Re: What do you think of this future?
on Nov 9, 2016 at 5:45:13 pm

[Ricardo Marty] "Adobe just presented this? a great tool in the right hands

http://nofilmschool.com/2016/11/adobe-project-voco

Ricardo Marty"


That is just amazing... kind of scary, but completely amazing.

Shawn



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Jeremy Garchow
Re: What do you think of this future?
on Nov 9, 2016 at 6:05:54 pm

Where does reality stop, and virtual reality begin?

This is really scary if used by the wrong people for the wrong things.

In a production environment, this has the potential to wipe away large swaths of industry, while adding capability to the increasing constraints of production and subserving collaboration to less and less entities.

I guess we should settle for a universal income so we have "more leisure time" to "do greater things".

My mind's not in the right place for this, today. :-|


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Tom Sefton
Re: What do you think of this future?
on Nov 9, 2016 at 6:12:51 pm

I'll be honest, given the date I didn't think this thread was going to be about adobe!

Co-owner at Pollen Studio
http://www.pollenstudio.co.uk


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Bob Zelin
Re: What do you think of this future?
on Nov 9, 2016 at 6:57:27 pm

Universal Income, Jeremy?

Do you know why this won't work? Because editor X will own a new Thunderbolt 3 Mac, or HP Z840 loaded up with GPU cards, and editor Y will say "I am still working on my old iMac - it's all supposed to be fair with universal income - I deserve a Thunderbolt 3 Mac as well". So what he will do is secretly work on the side, at 2AM, with YOUR clients, because he wants not only a thunderbolt 3 Mac, just like you have, but he wants a 34" 8K monitor (mainly because you don't have one). And he will charge almost nothing for this - but then, he gets better equipment then you do. And then you say "WAIT JUST A MINUTE - how come he has a 34" 8K monitor, and I have this crappy 5K monitor". So you start to work (if you are so inspired) extra hours secretly, so that you can not only have the Thunderbolt 3 montior, and the 8K monitor, but you want one of those 3800 MB/sec RAID arrays, which HE doesn't have.

Etc, etc. And that's why universal income never works. Because Elon Musk doesn't understand is that everyone doesn't get to drive a Telsa - and why should he, when you can't drive a Telsa. So the people that want to be at the same level as Elon Musk will work harder, so they can live just like he does. Human beings and animals all want the same thing - more than the next guy.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


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Bob Zelin
Re: What do you think of this future?
on Nov 9, 2016 at 7:01:39 pm

this product kind of reminds me of Melodyne for vocalists that cannot sing -
http://www.celemony.com/en/melodyne/what-is-melodyne

so for actors that can't remember their lines - well, we can fix it in post.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: What do you think of this future?
on Nov 9, 2016 at 7:11:53 pm

You will be able to get your 8k monitor ration from the state. And with all the free time we have, apparently I'll be able to 3D print my own 12k monitor. It'll be so much better.

But editing won't matter to me. A robot will be able to watch 20 hours of narrative movies, 20 hours of news, 20 hours of ads, 20 hours of talking heads, 20 hours of documentaries, and be able to shoot, edit, and voice anything they want after the initial burn in. You'll KNOW it's made by robot, but it won't matter because we will all be frolicking in the woods and mountains doing great things, like normal human beings.


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Bob Zelin
Re: What do you think of this future?
on Nov 9, 2016 at 10:26:24 pm

you miss my point Mr. Garchow, and unfortunately for you, I have thought about this for a long time, in plenty of ridiculous theoretical conversations. You will be frolicking in the woods and mountains with a fair maiden, and you will be having a wonderful time. But I will observe this, and I will say "I want that fair maiden - that fair maiden is more lovely than the one that I have". But you sir, are better looking than I am. And so I will say "what can I do to woo away this fair maiden from Jeremy Garchow. And LET ME ASSURE YOU, that if it involves hunting down a large bear, or learning how to grow beautiful flowers, or providing for her, to a level that she says "Jeremy, why can't we have a wonderful cave like that" - I will work HARDER than you, and she will eventually leave you, because I can provide for her, the things that she wants. And this is how the human race was developed, and progressed. I want your fair maiden, and I will do WHATEVER IT TAKES to make that happen, and unless you invent a bow and arrow (or a big rock) to stop me from doing so, I will do whatever it takes to win your fair maiden. Because I WANT MORE THAN YOU. Why - just because. Because that is the way that people are. They are competitive. They want more than the next guy. Nothing is satisfying (if you have a nice home, a nice car, a loving wife, wonderful kids, great vacations, great friends). Just look at our political candidates - what do they want ? MORE. And so we want 8K, and when we want 8K, RED, or Sony or someone else will have 12K and 16k, and your competitors will say "Jeremy sucks - look at that horrible 8K production he did - we did holographic 16 K - you should NEVER hire him ever again." That is the history of progress. "What can I do to make my life better than yours".

Bob

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


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Bill Davis
Re: What do you think of this future?
on Nov 9, 2016 at 11:26:39 pm

The song of scarcity - relentlessly sung in a world of plenty.

On another topic, I was FaceTiming with the young editor in England who's collaborating with me on an large project - and he quipped:

"You know NONE of this would have happened if you'd just let us tax the tea..."

Made me laugh.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: What do you think of this future?
on Nov 10, 2016 at 2:53:48 am

Automation will negate the human condition and all competition, because of our abundance of leisure time, Bob, it's so obvious.

And preschool will be free!

I hope you know I am being sarcastic. I can't see how universal income by way of automation will do anything to decrease income disparity, but will cede control in to the hands of few.


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Mark Smith
Re: What do you think of this future?
on Nov 10, 2016 at 12:22:33 am

Just stop a moment and think about the Veritas project and people like James O'Keefe who are deft at editing and taking the words of people out of context to create an agenda driven false impression of what was actually said by a given person. Ok , so unleash Voco on the world of editorial, and then what might be possible? Thanks Adobe, please burn your source code and sprinkle the ashes over the US west of the Mississippi.


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Mark Suszko
Re: What do you think of this future?
on Nov 10, 2016 at 4:10:27 pm
Last Edited By Mark Suszko on Nov 10, 2016 at 4:12:10 pm

One of my all-time favorite books, which I guess might now be in pre-production as a movie, is Haldeman's "The Forever War", a sci-fi story of one soldier fighting an interstellar war for Earth, who, thanks to relativity and time-dilation in interstellar travel, gets to re-visit Earth every hundred years or so, though for him it's just 2 or 3 years. He remains mostly the same, but he becomes more and more alienated from the world of his birth as time progresses normally back home.

During one of the earlier visits, the soldier, Major Mandala, is interviewed on a chat show, and he makes the mistake of saying what he actually thinks in response to the questions from the jingoistic host of the program. They wanted something to promote the war, not critique it, so they ask the major to sit and answer a few more random questions for about ten minutes. Mandala goes to his hotel room and later that night watches himself on the show he just attended. The technology employed is exactly like what we see in Adobe Voco and the new morph cut. Mandala's every word has been changed into a rousing, pro-war, pro-government motivational speaking miracle. And it's seamless, to the point Mandala wonders if he actually said anything.


This is really off-topic for the COW, but I'll bite. As to Universal Income, it's just another word for welfare or disability assistance. There will always be people in this world who can't cut it in the 9-to-5, for various reasons, either temporarily or for what's left of their life. They are never going to be competition for Zelin or Garchow. Or anybody. To leave them alone, scrabbling for survival is cruel. And counter-productive to an enlightened society and order, because it invites crime. It shouldn't be left just to charities to help these folks out. We can and should have a system that can help anybody, at whatever level. If we don't create it ourselves, market and social forces will evolve something similar, but it will be longer and more painful and less efficient in coming. Swinging back to on-topic: if someone on the lowest level of public assistance, working on second-hand gear, is talented enough to challenge one of you guys at your business, and actually take it away from you, it means what you do isn't all that special. But let's be clear: the public isn't going to allow any special universal wage level to be high enough to let somebody undercut your business. A UW wage will probably afford you bare survival minimums: a single-room apartment, a bare minimum of food, clean water, medicine, some clothes, a bus card, and probably free web access for education, communication, and entertainment. Nothing much else. That's not the profile of someone who is going to run any of us out of business.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: What do you think of this future?
on Nov 10, 2016 at 5:24:35 pm

[Mark Suszko] "We can and should have a system that can help anybody, at whatever level. If we don't create it ourselves, market and social forces will evolve something similar, but it will be longer and more painful and less efficient in coming. "

I whole heartedly agree. I hope I didn't come across as callous. While the Adobe technology is shockingly impressive in the pure capability, it's hard for me (and apparently others) to see any more than the harm that can be done.

Also, it will (or technology like it) eventually put us all out of a job, or close to it, and it's not just because the technology has advanced, it's because you will be able to tell a computer what to say in anyone's voice and likeness regardless of morality. We will simply not be able to compete, no matter what resolution of monitor I want.

Bob and I were talking about this recent discussion with Elon Musk, which basically seems to put most anyone on the lamb because of a conscious decision to automate, yet it's being packaged as more leisure time for everyone to innovate: http://fortune.com/2016/11/06/elon-musk-universal-basic-income/


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Don Cobble
Re: What do you think of this future?
on Nov 12, 2016 at 7:23:40 pm

You want to see scary about Video and Audio - This is from TED - 13 min and worth the watch

https://www.ted.com/talks/michael_rubinstein_see_invisible_motion_hear_sile...


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Ricardo Marty
Re: What do you think of this future?
on Nov 12, 2016 at 9:12:53 pm

I want to get off

Ricardo Marty


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Richard Herd
Re: What do you think of this future?
on Nov 10, 2016 at 5:35:15 pm

Imagine the Intellectual Property law suits. This technology will get crushed in the market place because it's too risky for regular-normalized operations to use. I can imagine already the change order coming in.

Client: we don't like that phrasing, so we have a new script.

Me: Let me just type in the new script and use the talen'ts audio sample....ok done. New VO read.

Talent: Hey you! You stole my voice, you owe me MONEY.

Me: I'm sorry. here's your money plus damages.

Client: We don't like that phrasing, so we have a new script.

Me: Sorry. we have to re-record and PAY the VO talent.

Client: what about last time?

Me: Yeah about that, I got sued and lost, so now is there any way I can get that compensated.

Client: LOL.

Me: I thought so.

A couple of days later.

Me: Posting on creative cow: whatever you do: always get a deposit upfront and always use real human beings to record the voice over, don't use a replicant, so you don't get sued.


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Shawn Miller
Re: What do you think of this future?
on Nov 10, 2016 at 6:08:20 pm

[Richard Herd] "Imagine the Intellectual Property law suits. This technology will get crushed in the market place because it's too risky for regular-normalized operations to use. I can imagine already the change order coming in.

Client: we don't like that phrasing, so we have a new script.

Me: Let me just type in the new script and use the talen'ts audio sample....ok done. New VO read.

Talent: Hey you! You stole my voice, you owe me MONEY.

Me: I'm sorry. here's your money plus damages.

Client: We don't like that phrasing, so we have a new script.

Me: Sorry. we have to re-record and PAY the VO talent.

Client: what about last time?

Me: Yeah about that, I got sued and lost, so now is there any way I can get that compensated.

Client: LOL.

Me: I thought so.

A couple of days later.

Me: Posting on creative cow: whatever you do: always get a deposit upfront and always use real human beings to record the voice over, don't use a replicant, so you don't get sued."


Wouldn't this all be negated by production agreements, release forms and whatnot? Once these documents are signed, you have the right to do anything with the audio and images you capture... within the bounds of the agreements, of course.

Shawn



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Richard Herd
Re: What do you think of this future?
on Nov 10, 2016 at 8:20:11 pm

[Shawn Miller] "within the bounds of the agreements, of course.

"


Imagine how much that will cost to have unlimited access to a voice for forever, but yeah I guess you could write a contract that way.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: What do you think of this future?
on Nov 10, 2016 at 9:27:29 pm

[Richard Herd] "Imagine how much that will cost to have unlimited access to a voice for forever, but yeah I guess you could write a contract that way.
"


And I would imagine people would agree to certain terms, like, "Sure, say whatever you want."

Then when their voice is misused they'd say, "Well, I didn't mean use it for THAT!"


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Walter Soyka
Re: What do you think of this future?
on Nov 10, 2016 at 9:32:10 pm

[Richard Herd] "Imagine how much that will cost to have unlimited access to a voice for forever, but yeah I guess you could write a contract that way."

Ask Susan Bennett:
http://www.cracked.com/personal-experiences-2108-i-am-siris-voice-4-bizarre...

But it wouldn't always need to be unlimited access to a voice forever; we license media for specific uses/timeframes all the time.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Ricardo Marty
Re: What do you think of this future?
on Nov 10, 2016 at 6:23:11 pm
Last Edited By Ricardo Marty on Nov 10, 2016 at 6:24:24 pm

Dont like like that voice lets use Don Lafontaines hey how about Orson Wells nah I prefer Vincent Price.

We could get stuck in the past.

Ricardo Marty


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Tim Wilson
Re: What do you think of this future?
on Nov 10, 2016 at 7:07:53 pm

[Ricardo Marty] "Dont like like that voice lets use Don Lafontaines hey how about Orson Wells nah I prefer Vincent Price.

We could get stuck in the past."


That's harder to do than you'd think...I think. Roger Ebert was trying to do something like this before he passed, but it turned out that there were very few stretches of his voice recordings that didn't have Gene Siskel interrupting him. 😁

There are obviously some issues with this, but I don't see it as much more problematic than hologram actors. Remember when people said the same thing about that? That we'd be inundated with them? I actually wouldn't mind seeing a few more of them than we've seen so far, especially in advertising where I think the illusion could hold up for the shorter duration more easily...

...but I just think about the massive time savings, and I think of this as one of the most practical new features that anybody has released in a while.

Not that it's been released yet. I do appreciate that they don't think it's ready for release until it's 100% detectable. I can see where this would be quite a trick if the original file has been conveniently lost, and all that remains is a flattened recording. This kind of watermarking is ironically much easier to do with video files....


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Mark Suszko
Re: What do you think of this future?
on Nov 10, 2016 at 7:19:24 pm

Tim: You. Magnificent. Bastard.

via GIPHY



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Richard Herd
Re: What do you think of this future?
on Nov 10, 2016 at 8:25:20 pm

[Tim Wilson] "the massive time savings"

What massive time savings? This will be a time nightmare and extend and extend and extend re-edits. "ok now try this."
"now that" "Can i hear the first one again." "i need to let so-and-so on this." Folks will say "let's iterate that one more time"

This is the same kind of reasoning that folks used when they said "word processing will cut down on the amount of paper we use." We all know what happened. It's so damn easy to hit print.


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Tim Wilson
Re: What do you think of this future?
on Nov 10, 2016 at 11:58:49 pm

[Richard Herd] "What massive time savings? This will be a time nightmare and extend and extend and extend re-edits."

I agree that the paperless office was an illusion, but I'm sincerely not getting that you're not seeing this as a true breakthrough, in a good way.

The problem of providing excuses for endless edits that you note is a real one, but no different than we've been dealing with in NLEs for 30 years. And it's not like the film-ness of film stopped people from insisting on new edits...

....but I know you've done a ton of VO editing. I know I did documentaries and news magazine stuff, so VO was constant. I'd have added years to my life if I hadn't had to drag people back into the studio to accommodate a script change, missed cue, or some other absolutely normal, perfectly rational situation.

A colleague of mine is wrestling with this now on a project. The company offers continuing education for medical specialists, required by licensing boards. Precision is a must.

For this one recent project, a doctor did a GREAT job on the VO, as good as any pro I've heard...BASICALLY. But there were just enough tiny errors that... well, let's just say you can imagine why a presentation to doctors about cutting-edge treatment might need to be razor sharp.

There were also some pieces of the script that were based on older information that was updated between when the project started and now -- not the first time this happened. There were also a number of mis-speaks that are endemic to multi-hour recording sessions that they THOUGHT could be edited around, but when it came down to it, couldn't be.

No biggie, except that the narrator is a DOCTOR, a very busy specialist with a large clinical practice, who's also an in-demand speaker, and who lives far away. Swapping out narrators isn't an option, for reasons.

Even just getting the doc in front of a proper microphone has been waiting for weeks. It might be months before it actually happens, plus however much time it'll take to process the whole thing, make the vocal sessions at least plausibly match up in post, etc etc etc.

Pray that the doctor, reading the revised script, remotely, gets it close enough that a third take isn't necessary.

Or my colleague could have done made the edits and added the tweaked new information in an hour or two, a month ago.

How is this not massive? Assuming that it works as well as it appears to in the demo, I can't think of a single scenario where a VO editor won't be delighted. This is one of those examples of what Arthur C. Clarke observed about a sufficiently advanced technology looking like magic. This looks like MAGIC, with demonstrably practical applications.

And really, if the worst you can say about a technology is that it's too advanced to trust your colleagues and peers to use it ethically, well, take responsibility for yourself, and don't worry about the other guy's ethics any more than you already do. There are already plenty of ways for unethical people to be unethical, and it typically happens far, far before this part of the production process.

It's certainly understandable to me why people might be hyper-tuned to this issue these days, but I ain't buying the miniscule risks of this as outweighing the exponential rewards.


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Ricardo Marty
Re: What do you think of this future?
on Nov 11, 2016 at 4:22:24 am
Last Edited By Ricardo Marty on Nov 11, 2016 at 4:27:42 am

You're all talking about the the content business but there are other businesses in the world with other content needs like goverment, law and justice politics security spooks all over the world that could use this technology both for good and not so good. If this code gets out and nobody knows that it did or its stolen the world will certainly change before our very ears and the world woud be clueless.

Ricardo Marty


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: What do you think of this future?
on Nov 11, 2016 at 5:43:00 pm

[Tim Wilson] "And really, if the worst you can say about a technology is that it's too advanced to trust your colleagues and peers to use it ethically, well, take responsibility for yourself, and don't worry about the other guy's ethics any more than you already do. There are already plenty of ways for unethical people to be unethical, and it typically happens far, far before this part of the production process.
"


I think the production process would be the least of concerns.

On the upside, I'm glad it's Friday.


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Tim Wilson
Re: What do you think of this future?
on Nov 11, 2016 at 6:08:33 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "[Tim Wilson] "There are already plenty of ways for unethical people to be unethical, and it typically happens far, far before this part of the production process."

I think the production process would be the least of concerns.

On the upside, I'm glad it's Friday."


Yes, my exact point. This kind of tweaking doesn't even make my list of issues in the scheme of things. I'm more of a "glass is 42% full" kind of guy than anything else (things are just shy of "okay" at best), but this time, I'm saying, "What glass? I don't see any glass, relatively speaking. This is AWESOME."

But yeah, I'm glad it's Friday. Saturday means the phone doesn't ring, so I can work even longer hours. 😁😁😁


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Richard Herd
Re: What do you think of this future?
on Nov 11, 2016 at 7:27:15 pm

[Tim Wilson] "enough tiny errors that"

New technology will create more "tiny errors." It will not end them. It will create new management techniques for those specific things -- whatever they are.

The ethics are not the worrisome part, for me, per say, nor the tech itself. I believe in contract law and agreements between people and so on. So I think that it can be managed. I just can't imagine a VO talent agreeing to those terms, unless it's pretty expensive, and/or exploitative like the link Walter S shared about Siri.

In the hands of an artist, this tool could be fantastic. However, I will probably make famous people make fart sounds. :)


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Tim Wilson
Re: What do you think of this future?
on Nov 11, 2016 at 8:05:50 pm

[Richard Herd] "In the hands of an artist, this tool could be fantastic. However, I will probably make famous people make fart sounds. :)"

Not to belabor a point that I think we agree on more than not, I hope you're not implying that adding fart sounds isn't great art. πŸ˜‹ There used to be a version of the Bean Scene from Blazing Saddles posted on YouTube with the, uhm, audio effects turned off for early broadcast showings, which is in fact how I first saw it. It's quite startling, even more unsettling than you'd think. I suppose it's good news that the "proper" version is the only one I can currently find, amply demonstrating that this is in fact high art.



And as you can see, easily-enough added with older technology. Technically ADR, but I think, more technically, AFR.


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Richard Herd
Re: What do you think of this future?
on Nov 11, 2016 at 8:25:43 pm

Hahahahahahahahahahaha! Haven't seen that in years!


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Bill Davis
Re: What do you think of this future?
on Nov 11, 2016 at 10:35:51 pm

[Tim Wilson] "Technically ADR, but I think, more technically, AFR.
"


Hey hey hey! There are probably kids around!

"AGR" please.

; )

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Mark Smith
Re: What do you think of this future?
on Nov 12, 2016 at 2:19:50 am

This Blazing Saddles scene without the sfx is like watch the DVD version of Y Tu Mama Tambien which had none of the sex scenes of the theatrical release. Neither made any sense at all.


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Bill Davis
Re: What do you think of this future?
on Nov 10, 2016 at 11:30:19 pm

[Richard Herd] "Me: Let me just type in the new script and use the talen'ts audio sample....ok done. New VO read.

Talent: Hey you! You stole my voice, you owe me MONEY.

Me: I'm sorry. here's your money plus damages.

Client: We don't like that phrasing, so we have a new script.

Me: Sorry. we have to re-record and PAY the VO talent.

Client: what about last time?

Me: Yeah about that, I got sued and lost, so now is there any way I can get that compensated.
"


The real next conversation is...

Client: You know, this VO stuff is all just too much freekin' trouble. I hear there's a guy in Copenhagen who's digitized voices off of old "out of copyright" stuff and has it all broken down into formants and phrases - his software costs $19.95 and you just load your script up and the voiceover pops out ready to go.

Lets just use that.




And so it goes.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Mark Suszko
Re: What do you think of this future?
on Nov 11, 2016 at 4:56:22 am

Too late - it's out in the wild, in a version without any watermarking. it's inevitable.


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Ricardo Marty
Re: What do you think of this future?
on Nov 11, 2016 at 5:05:55 am
Last Edited By Ricardo Marty on Nov 11, 2016 at 5:17:37 am

Maybe it has been been used. How would we know?

Ricardo Marty


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: What do you think of this future?
on Nov 11, 2016 at 5:24:44 am

All of this amazing technology and After Effects still crashes all day everyday.

Get off my lawn kids.


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Richard Herd
Re: What do you think of this future?
on Nov 11, 2016 at 7:34:09 pm

You'll have to go watch Blade Runner again.


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Richard Herd
Re: What do you think of this future?
on Nov 11, 2016 at 7:33:14 pm

LOL.


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Michael Gissing
Re: What do you think of this future?
on Nov 14, 2016 at 5:13:31 am

The ethics for documentary are enormous but the real issue will be in law enforcement and whether recorded phone taps and testimony will ever be admissible.

Watermaking like DRS or other attempts to control distribution and copyright are all defeatable and falsifiable.

We already have to be mindful of how technology and edit accuracy has allowed more believable Frankensentences. I am constantly reminded of how much better I can make people say things these days but this is a whole new level. I wonder if anyone will ever sign release form for an interview once this goes out in the wild.


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Bill Davis
Re: What do you think of this future?
on Nov 14, 2016 at 5:04:24 pm

[Michael Gissing] " wonder if anyone will ever sign release form for an interview once this goes out in the wild."

I just glanced back at the releases I've been using for 30 years now. The attorney I used to draft them included a phrase granting me the right to perform "digital manipulations" on the released performances.

Smart woman.

But none of us expected I'd have the ability to literally reverse the meaning of what somebody said in an on-camera interview and 10 seconds later make it available to the entire planet via YouTube.

Again reminds me of that artical I read decades ago (Harpers Magazine, iirc) under the headline "The End of Photography as Proof of Anything"

And here we are.

Oh well.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: What do you think of this future?
on Nov 14, 2016 at 6:29:54 pm

On a related noted,

DNA Evidence Can Be Fabricated, Scientists Show

β€œYou can just engineer a crime scene,” said Dan Frumkin, lead author of the paper, which has been published online by the journal Forensic Science International: Genetics. β€œAny biology undergraduate could perform this.”

The company offers a test that can tell the difference between real and engineered DNA, but how affordable and widespread the test is is another issue.


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Michael Gissing
Re: What do you think of this future?
on Nov 15, 2016 at 3:19:37 am

[Bill Davis] "I just glanced back at the releases I've been using for 30 years now. The attorney I used to draft them included a phrase granting me the right to perform "digital manipulations" on the released performances."

I wonder if in a court of law that might be interpreted as digital manipulation as it existed at the time of the signature. I wonder if it is possible to sign away rights in perpetuity without some boundaries of what can be done to manipulate. As I said the issue will be in a world where this sort of manipulation now applies whether anyone will sign such a release.


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Mark Smith
Re: What do you think of this future?
on Nov 14, 2016 at 9:56:04 pm

Years ago I worked on a show that involved The Red Hot Chili Peppers. We interviewed the band one at a time and they were all very cooperative. One band member was barely articulate at the time, he said words but not sentences as we know them. The director and editor spent 3 weeks putting together about half a dozen complete sentences for his part of the show from various fragments of his interview. With Voco this would be an afternoon's work, perhaps. Voco still remains a convenient but dangerous tool for many of the reasons cited in this thread.


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