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Bill Davis
The TouchBar?
on Nov 7, 2016 at 8:55:00 pm

In other forums, I'm watching some folks go NUTS over the "imagined utility" of this. Pro and Con. It's WILD to observe!

Every freekin' one of us probably now carries a Smart phone in out pocket that we use every day to call up the most useful information when we need it and gleefully navigate said information via touch without a second thought!

Isn't the TouchBar simply a modest portion of EXACTLY the same thing?

And it's TOTALLY escaping me how much some people seem to be questioning the utility of this. Do they, for some reason, need to hate the new Laptops THAT much?

This honestly does NOT seem like a particularly difficult concept to grasp.

Argue price, current necessity, lack of software to leverage the TouchBar (other than X) - fine.

But to argue that the concept itself is a "toy" capability seems INSANE to me.

Unless you maybe think your cel phone is a toy?

It's just baffling to me.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: The TouchBar?
on Nov 7, 2016 at 9:26:54 pm

Could be cool. Could be meh. No one knows until it gets out into the wild. As a wise man once said, [Bill Davis] "I'm the guy watching dozens of other guys trying super hard to sour everyone on a new laptop system - that none of them have actually ever seen, or touched, much less actually cut work on." ;)


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Bill Davis
Re: The TouchBar?
on Nov 8, 2016 at 12:01:59 am

Well, the record - I actually have used it a bit.

At the Creative Summit during our trip to Apple - we all got some hands-on time.
In fairness, a five minute drive is only good for first impressions. That's why I too will wait for reports from the editors I know who both know how to edit in X fluently AND take delivery of the early units do they can say what it's like to live with day to day.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: The TouchBar?
on Nov 8, 2016 at 12:24:05 am

I have no hands on time with it, but it seems like the difference between kinda useful and really useful is going to be in how open/flexible the API is. I know Apple has already issued some guidelines, but having third parties embrace it and have a lot of flexibility for user customization seem like the keys to victory.


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Scott Witthaus
Re: The TouchBar?
on Nov 7, 2016 at 11:12:39 pm

What forums? I would like to peek in if possible.

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Andrew Kimery
Re: The TouchBar?
on Nov 7, 2016 at 11:19:00 pm

Or just share some of the ideas here. I'm curious to see what people think it would be useful for.


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Brett Sherman
Re: The TouchBar?
on Nov 8, 2016 at 1:49:48 pm

I think using it for changing keyboard shortcuts is okay but not particularly revolutionary.

I can imagine dividing the touchbar into thirds to adjust highlight, midtones and shadows. Or turn it into a big audio fader. Gradient adjustment that keys don't work well for.

--------------------------
Brett Sherman
One Man Band (If it's video related I'll do it!)
I work for an institution that probably does not want to be associated with my babblings here.


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Bill Davis
Re: The TouchBar?
on Nov 7, 2016 at 11:55:12 pm

Reddits Editing subs most recently.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Joe Marler
Re: The TouchBar?
on Nov 8, 2016 at 2:35:54 pm

[Bill Davis] "And it's TOTALLY escaping me how much some people seem to be questioning the utility of this. Do they, for some reason, need to hate the new Laptops THAT much? "

I think objective assessment of the touchbar has been damaged by the removal of the SD slot, the USB-C-only decision and related dongle issues. Professional users who need those removed features lump them all together as excessive emphasis on aesthetic elements by out-of-touch Apple designers.

In fact the touch bar seems like a good idea, and it still does function keys. You lose the tactile response but in return you gain a lot more flexibility and functionality. In future versions they could add haptic feedback to the touch bar that might help.

Going from buttons to a touch interface always has tradeoffs. But even aerospace -- which historically valued the tactile feedback of physical switches -- is going to touch panels. Here are photos of an actual production (not mockup) F-35 fighter plane touch-screen panel: https://joema.smugmug.com/Aerospace/F35-Touch-Screen-Instrument/n-85xJrM/

Likewise the SpaceX Dragon capsule will use mostly touch screen panels: http://blogs-images.forbes.com/alexknapp/files/2014/05/DragonV2-10.png


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Bill Davis
Re: The TouchBar?
on Nov 8, 2016 at 3:21:03 pm

[Joe Marler] "I think objective assessment of the touchbar has been damaged by the removal of the SD slot, the USB-C-only decision and related dongle issues. "

I can totally see that.

For much of the entire FCP X debate over the past 5 years, I stubbornly kept thinking we were debating features and facts. Took me a very long time to realize we often weren't debating any sort of objective "facts" at all. We were debating emotional reactions to change. And those feelings were every bit as real and central to the discussions as how anything actually functioned.

I've come to see all this stuff as swirling in a HUGE wave of changes in how things function on a very basic levels.

"Touchscreen world" is clearly replacing "mechanical key" world.

It's difficult for me to confront that as well.

For example, I'm a very decent touch typist. I LOVE a great tactile keyboard. But about a year ago I watched an Apple Store Genius Bar associate writing up a repair order on her iPad - and she was positively FLYING. It looked like she was doing about 400wpm on her virtual keypad. Blew me away.

Things change.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Tim Wilson
Re: The TouchBar?
on Nov 9, 2016 at 9:49:04 am

[Bill Davis] "Took me a very long time to realize we often weren't debating any sort of objective "facts" at all. We were debating emotional reactions to change. And those feelings were every bit as real and central to the discussions as how anything actually functioned. "

I've said two things in this forum from the very beginning, that a) Apple's rollout of X was flawless and 100 years from now will still be studied in MBA programs as the RIGHT way to do these things, and b) that ALL decisions about NLEs are made the same way that ALL decisions are, by emotional forces that are frequently unexamined.

You may never come around to the first one, but I'm glad you've come around to the second. ?

No kidding, I've said this in DOZENS of posts. The context that I've most often brought it up in is that some people are VERY quick to ascribe emotional reasons for NOT adopting X -- fear, set in their ways, unwillingness to change, Luddite, etc etc etc -- but never acknowledge their OWN emotional reasons FOR adopting X.

Here's an example from March 2015:

It's easy to deny the INTERNAL forces -- personal preferences, emotional comfort, spiritual values, philosophical inclinations, you name it -- behind making or not making change. Until we bring that into the conversation and keep it there, we're leaving out what I think is MORE than half of the dynamic that drives choices.


Even if one isn't willing to go as far down the Freudian road as I am (MOST choices about MOST things are driven by pre-rational unconscious forces that we pretend are rational because of our fear of confronting the truth about ourselves), I think it's the definition of insanity to leave out the primacy of preference. We choose things because we LIKE 'em, for reasons, again, that are far less rational than we think.

Which is GOOD. It's HUMAN. It's one of the most distinctively human impulses of all, at the very core of the concept of consciousness.

Continuing from that post, I said that "we can't have a MEANINGFUL conversation if we attribute negative values to people who choose differently for INTERNAL reasons" without being honest about our OWN internal reasons that have nothing to do with rationality, and everything to do with feelings.

Indeed, I spoke about this as at least as far back as May 2012, when the combination of X and the lack of a new Mac Pro led to a number of formerly VERY high-profile FCP and Mac advocates to not only leave FCP, but leave the Mac altogether. They often found this profoundly EMOTIONALLY painful, because of the deep PERSONAL connection that they'd felt for Apple, the PERSONAL affinity they had for The Apple Way.

The context of the thread is that people were talking about "hurt feelings" as if that was noise, and that rational discourse was "signal" -- but I pointed out that feelings were signal, and the pretense to rationality was creating noise!

See, I don't think that "hurt" is noise. I think it's part of what has become one of the many NEW signals here: trying to figure out which way the big ball is going to bounce. As others have noted, feelings have ALWAYS factored into this. Dramatically changing feelings about the company people FELT most strongly about? Signal. It WILL affect the future of the industry and the people in it. It already has.

And frankly, losing faith in Apple, even if for emotional reasons, becomes a rational consideration. Dig:

You have a finite amount of time and money. You take a piece of yellow legal paper (IT HAS TO BE YELLOW OR IT DOESN'T COUNT), draw a line down the middle, make a list on each side, and "I just don't like those f*ckers anymore" HAS to factor in. It would be IRrational to give money to people you don't like or trust.


Again, this was May 2012, with many, many similar observations over the years.

I'll end with one more, from a year and a half ago, where I argued that personality type had as much to do with speedy adoption (or not) of X as anything else. There are two innately human impulses, migration and settlement. Some people favor movement -- ie, innovation, often for its own sake - whereas other people prefer settlement, ie, the expertise that only comes from years, maybe even decades of pursuit of a toolset.

Is there anything wrong with expertise? No. Is there anything wrong with adapting to innovation? No, which means that both positions are also right. Just not right for everyone.

But the overwhelming tendency in this forum HAD been (but isn't now) the accusation that people were avoiding X because of some personal deficiency.

One of the ways I see this is in the implication that people are being "held back" for psychological reasons as well as cognitive ones -- or more often, to the EXCLUSION of rational reasons. You know what? It can often be the case. I don't think most of us have begun to reckon with the fact that what seems like our most discretionary choices -- career, where we live, our life partners -- could possibly among the ones most driven by pre-rational forces.

It's no big deal, though. Not even worth pursuing. The fact that they ARE driven by unexamined internal dynamics is why most of the time, most of these choices work for most of us.

But it grinds any reasonable discussion to a halt to fail to acknowledge that there are equally compelling psychological reasons for adopting X that have little to do with rational ones. Which is also okay. If it works for you, who cares why?

It only matters to the extent that those forces are invoked in discussions like these, and the belief that only the OTHER guy is subject to them. The internal components that latch on to innovation as a higher good are every bit as real as the drive to attain the deepest possible expertise.


Enough already. My point being that I'm delighted that you've come around to a perspective I've waved the flag for since the earliest days of this forum. ????

I'll make another post that features me once again waving the screen for touchscreens. ? They work for phones and tablets, and they work for computers -- not for every task, or every kind of input, but they do offer efficiencies that nothing else does. It's okay to have more than one way to do things. The only problem with The Magic Emoji Bar is that it doesn't go far enough.

But if it didn't do emojis at all, THAT's what I'd be complaining about. ?

Okay, so maybe I've said enough about THAT for now, too. ?


(btw, an overdue thanks to Noah Kadner for encouraging me to finally get around to adding emojis to the forums. ?I do love me some emojis. These aren't the greatest ever, but they're the standardized ones that work about the same on every desktop and mobile platform....)


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Bill Davis
Re: The TouchBar?
on Nov 9, 2016 at 8:07:14 pm

Yep. It's clearly the new golden age of "just stroke my Id- and I'll follow you anywhere!"

Sigh.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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