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A bridge too far?

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Oliver Peters
A bridge too far?
on Jul 11, 2016 at 7:27:41 pm

We are now several months past Apple's preview of the next FCP X. The update itself is long overdue. So, it would seem that there's a lot if work going into it, with the potential to introduce a little or a lot of compaibility issues. Maybe as bad as 7 to 10.0.0, but likely more like the shift to 10.1.

Pure speculation, but assuming this is to be the case, will this be too much change (and not in features) in a few short years for FCP X users to stay in the fold?

Meanwhile, a lot more ongoing development on the Adobe and Avid side, as well as Blackmagic Design poised to eat everyone's lunch.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Alex Gollner
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 11, 2016 at 8:09:48 pm

For most Final Cut Pro X updates, the reaction is "not many changes after waiting for so long" then "that’s new, why didn't they include that in the release notes" and - for some people: "I didn't think that update was a big deal, but now I think my day to day editing experience has improved a lot."

As regards why we are waiting, although the ProApps team might have wanted to release the next update on the fifth anniversary of X (on the 1-year anniversary of the FCPX Creative Summit event - which included a visit to Final Cut HQ), my guess is that they have been countermanded by Apple - the wider company.

Apple PR: "We've got new Mac hardware coming out that has various new features that support a range of obscure uses for high-end Macs"
Apple Marketing: "Any TV/mainstream print/mainstream website journalist can understand that video editing needs a lot of power. Let's say that these new Macs make 4K/8K/VR/AR much better using a special new version of Final Cut"
ProApps team: "With our established proxy workflow, we support 4K editing on the new entry-level MacBook"
Apple PR: "That doesn't help explain why we make the Mac Pro/Mac mini Pro/MacBook Pro ‘Pro‘ - Final Cut will make the message clearer. And delaying the update a few more months will give you lot the chance to make it even bigger!"


@Alex4D

PS: Join me and some proper Final Cut Pro X and Motion superstars at the FCPX Creative Summit 2016. This year in late October!


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Oliver Peters
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 11, 2016 at 8:17:45 pm

[Alex Gollner] "....Apple PR: "That doesn't help explain why we make the Mac Pro/Mac mini Pro/MacBook Pro ‘Pro‘ - Final Cut will make the message clearer. And delaying the update a few more months will give you lot the chance to make it even bigger!""

I hate to say it, but what you described in that scene is not the "buttoned up" company that we imagine Apple to be, but rather one that's at least as messed up as Avid. :)

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Scott Witthaus
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 11, 2016 at 10:47:00 pm

[Oliver Peters] "We are now several months past Apple's preview of the next FCP X. The update itself is long overdue."

I say make it right before you release. Perhaps Apple actually learned from the CF that was the first release of X (yes Bill, it was a CF) and is making sure it works. Pure speculation as well.

[Oliver Peters] "ongoing development on the Adobe and Avid side"

I upgraded to MC8.6 and opened it, then closed it. Nothing to see for my workflow there. Avid has it's niche and is justifiably playing to that niche. Premiere is, well, Premiere. Enough said, in my humble opinion only.

I am not sure what everyone is "waiting for" in terms of the next "big" release. I am crunching along almost every day on X and not really missing that "one big thing" that maybe the next release might have. It works great for my workflow today. When I hit a wall where it doesn't, then I will start gnashing my teeth and pulling my hair for the next "big" release. As usual, my humble opine only.



[Oliver Peters] " Blackmagic Design poised to eat everyone's lunch.
"


Do tell.

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Oliver Peters
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 11, 2016 at 11:06:20 pm

[Scott Witthaus] "I am not sure what everyone is "waiting for" in terms of the next "big" release. I am crunching along almost every day on X and not really missing that "one big thing" that maybe the next release might have. It works great for my workflow today. "

But that's precisely the point. We now know there is an update underway. What happens if it disrupts your workflow in a significant way?

[Scott Witthaus] "Do tell.
"


It's a viable editor now and it's free for the needs of most.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Craig Alan
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 11, 2016 at 11:29:12 pm

Blackmagic Design poised to eat everyone's lunch.
[Oliver Peters] "It's a viable editor now and it's free for the needs of most."

Have you used it enough to know it's bug free and full featured enough to be "viable."

Not doubting, I get asked all the time what NLE I would recommend if they don't want to shell out $300. Or work on a PC.

Do you really see it as a deal changer in professional circles? Or just another option?

How well does it play with lesser computer specs?

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Oliver Peters
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 11, 2016 at 11:44:06 pm

[Craig Alan] "Have you used it enough to know it's bug free and full featured enough to be "viable."
"


Not yet. Although I'm not sure any modern NLE fits those criteria. For me, audio is the weakest part with Resolve.

[Craig Alan] "Do you really see it as a deal changer in professional circles? Or just another option?
"


I suspect only an option.

[Craig Alan] "How well does it play with lesser computer specs?
"


1080HD ProRes is OK on an older Mac Pro. However, with the mixer panel open, playback to the viewers would stutter.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Ricardo Marty
Re: A bridge too far?
on Aug 16, 2016 at 3:23:34 pm

[Craig Alan] "Have you used it enough to know it's bug free and full featured enough to be "viable." "

It was good enough and viable for:

https://www.cinema5d.com/davinci-resolve-studio-delivers-jason-bourne-goldc...

Ricardo Marty


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Scott Witthaus
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 12, 2016 at 2:54:22 am

[Oliver Peters] "What happens if it disrupts your workflow in a significant way?
"


Then I sadly go to Premiere!

You can do "what ifs" all day long. I have work to do today. That's whats' important. I can't worry about "what if". That is a paralyzing thought process.

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Bill Davis
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 12, 2016 at 3:14:03 am

[Scott Witthaus] "[Oliver Peters] "What happens if it disrupts your workflow in a significant way?"

Why wouldn't you just go all FCP Legacy style and stick with your perfectly well performing current NLE (FCP X)?

It's stable, fast, highly capable right now. I've paid for it once and nobody's bleeding me monthly to continue using it.

So It seems to me I'm good either way.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Oliver Peters
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 12, 2016 at 2:23:02 pm

[Scott Witthaus] "You can do "what ifs" all day long. I have work to do today. That's whats' important. I can't worry about "what if". That is a paralyzing thought process.
"


Which begs the question, "Why do any of us want upgrades ar all?" Apple is pretty poor in its update track record, judging by most of its apps, especially Logic. So maybe X is complete, save some ongoing cosmetic and organizational updates.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Charlie Austin
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 12, 2016 at 5:27:28 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Apple is pretty poor in its update track record, judging by most of its apps, especially Logic."

Maybe not the best example. :-)

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT203718

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~I still need to play Track Tetris sometimes. An old game that you can never win~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Oliver Peters
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 12, 2016 at 5:37:13 pm

[Charlie Austin] "Maybe not the best example. :-)"

I run it.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Charlie Austin
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 12, 2016 at 5:39:39 pm

[Oliver Peters] "I run it."

Me too. Do you mean not a lot of new features? Because it gets updated pretty regularly.

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~I still need to play Track Tetris sometimes. An old game that you can never win~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Oliver Peters
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 12, 2016 at 5:44:29 pm

My use is pretty minimal. I think they have a pretty good track record, which is atypical of Apple. Probably because it's largely the original development team in Germany. Compare that the Pages, Photos, Numbers, Keynote. OTOH a lot of what gets done in Logic is tossing in new features that would otherwise be paid third party add-ons and plug-ins with other apps.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Charlie Austin
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 12, 2016 at 5:47:35 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Compare that the Pages, Photos, Numbers, Keynote"

Gotcha... I read your earlier comment as saying Logic doesn't get updated often... :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~I still need to play Track Tetris sometimes. An old game that you can never win~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Oliver Peters
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 12, 2016 at 5:51:09 pm

[Charlie Austin] "Gotcha... I read your earlier comment as saying Logic doesn't get updated often... :-)
"


Well, in the past, it has gone through its own spells of inattention.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Charlie Austin
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 12, 2016 at 5:52:31 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Well, in the past, it has gone through its own spells of inattention."

For sure. Though, since it was X-ified, it's been pretty consistently tweaked...

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~I still need to play Track Tetris sometimes. An old game that you can never win~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Charlie Austin
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 11, 2016 at 11:25:10 pm

[Oliver Peters] "So, it would seem that there's a lot if work going into it, with the potential to introduce a little or a lot of compaibility issues. Maybe as bad as 7 to 10.0.0, but likely more like the shift to 10.1."

Jeez Oliver, some classic FUD there dude. ;-) What if there's a lot of changes, but it seamlessly updates stuff? Just as likely here is speculation land. The shift to 10.1 wasn't bad at all if you read the instructions...

[Oliver Peters] "will this be too much change (and not in features)"

Again you're assuming no really new features. Maybe they're going down the list of every requested feature and putting them all in? ;-)

[Oliver Peters] "Meanwhile, a lot more ongoing development on the Adobe and Avid side"

Really? I have 'em both and they're certainly not passing FCP X by -if that was your implication - at all.

[Oliver Peters] "as well as Blackmagic Design poised to eat everyone's lunch."

It's a nice NLE, but other that the fact it's bolted on to the coloring/finishing bits of Resolve, nothing special. The price point is nice though, I'll give you that. :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~I still need to play Track Tetris sometimes. An old game that you can never win~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Oliver Peters
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 11, 2016 at 11:35:17 pm

[Charlie Austin] "Jeez Oliver, some classic FUD there dude. ;-) What if there's a lot of changes, but it seamlessly updates stuff? Just as likely here is speculation land. The shift to 10.1 wasn't bad at all if you read the instructions...
"


Sure. It's just a speculative "what if" question. I did the shift to 10.1 on a large project and it was a disaster. And yes, I read the instructions. I stayed on a separate boot drive with 10.0.9 for well over a year just to get the damn film done.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Charlie Austin
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 11, 2016 at 11:41:14 pm

[Oliver Peters] "And yes, I read the instructions. I stayed on a separate boot drive with 10.0.9 for well over a year just to get the damn film done.
"


Fair enough. Also i didn't mean to imply that you didn't RTM. :-) For me was fine, but admittedly not long form stuff.

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~I still need to play Track Tetris sometimes. An old game that you can never win~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Tim Wilson
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 12, 2016 at 1:39:25 am

I know that "a bridge too far" is the question...but is there any such thing anymore? It seems like there was a bridge too far a few years ago. X in itself for some people, but for more I think, the combination of X and the trash can. Indeed, some non-X users took that opportunity to leave Mac altogether.

But now? Disappointment over a late, lackluster almost-update is the most that Apple users can realistically hope for anymore. LOL With the silent (or not so silent) prayer, "Please don't burn my favorite stuff to the ground." LOL

"Again." LOL

Mostly kidding, but that's the flip side of the question. Barring Apple dropping macOS in favor of Windows or something outrageous, here, within the real world we've been living for the past 5 years, having come this far, can Apple honestly do anything to lose you for good?

I'm betting no. Even if you say yes. LOL If you ain't gone now, you ain't goin' nowhere. Right?



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Scott Witthaus
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 12, 2016 at 2:59:26 am

Or the Byrds version:







Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Claude Lyneis
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 13, 2016 at 4:41:07 am

Great to see the oscilloscope and tube power supplies in the background of this video, brings back memories of graduate school in the 60's.


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Tom Sefton
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 12, 2016 at 10:45:18 am

Yeah we aren't going anywhere now. I'm in.

Co-owner at Pollen Studio
http://www.pollenstudio.co.uk


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Mark Suszko
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 12, 2016 at 2:37:20 pm

You're forgetting the greatest Foley scene in film history:







Bonus: the intercom guy at the end is also Brooks.


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Scott Witthaus
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 12, 2016 at 2:58:41 pm

[Mark Suszko] "You're forgetting the greatest Foley scene in film history:"

Fantastic. This will be mandatory viewing in my Visual Storytelling class this fall.

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Bret Williams
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 13, 2016 at 6:28:06 pm

I wonder if the foley footsteps were foley'd?


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Claude Lyneis
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 13, 2016 at 4:36:53 am

I'm not going anywhere, but I did enjoy Dylan's version. I thought I had heard all of his songs, but no.


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James Culbertson
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 12, 2016 at 4:41:00 pm

[Oliver Peters] "We are now several months past Apple's preview of the next FCP X.

Wait. There was a preview of the next version? Can you post a link to that?

Pure speculation, but assuming this is to be the case, will this be too much change (and not in features) in a few short years for FCP X users to stay in the fold?"


No.


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Oliver Peters
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 12, 2016 at 5:36:18 pm

"Wait. There was a preview of the next version? Can you post a link to that?"

Have you been under a rock? :) There was an NDA preview screening at FCPeXchange at NAB. Open to anyone who was in line in time. No links available or possible to be posted.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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James Culbertson
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 12, 2016 at 7:15:28 pm

[Oliver Peters] "Have you been under a rock? :)"

Ah, I do remember something about that... I have not been to NAB for some years.

Vashon Island, WA where I live is called the Rock; so I guess I do live on a rock.


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Oliver Peters
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 12, 2016 at 7:20:04 pm

[James Culbertson] "Vashon Island, WA where I live is called the Rock; so I guess I do live on a rock."

LOL. Well there was *some* discussion of it here, too.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Lance Bachelder
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 12, 2016 at 10:00:43 pm

My long term fears isn't about FCPX updates as much as it is about its existence! I visited an Apple store Sunday for the first time in a while and was saddened that there a lone Mac Pro and a coulee of iMacs against a wall and the rest of the store was all devices. There used to be a table full of iMac's and various tables with laptops but no more.

With everyone wanting to shoot 4K, 6K and beyond, will there even be a Apple system that can handle the material in the near future? The only thing keeping mainly Mac-based is Pro Res, otherwise I'd probably be 100% Windows and Premiere or Resolve...

It was at a Vegas premiere that I resolved to become an avid FCPX user.

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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James Culbertson
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 12, 2016 at 10:23:53 pm

[Lance Bachelder] "My long term fears isn't about FCPX updates as much as it is about its existence! I visited an Apple store Sunday .... There used to be a table full of iMac's and various tables with laptops but no more."

I would assume that pro's generally don't go to Brick and Mortar Stores to make their purchases. When is the last time you have made a major purchase of a Mac or PC at an actual store versus online? For that matter when was the last time you purchased anything related to video or audio from a non-online store. I buy everthing from the Apple online Store and B&H online, and have done so for probably the last 10 years at least.

I imagine that the Apple Store like most stores is focused on more general consumers rather than specialists.


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Lance Bachelder
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 12, 2016 at 10:39:19 pm

I've bought a maxed out iMac at the Apple store and in the tower days and fairly substantial Mac Pro. The fact is there were more Macs of all sorts on display the last time I was in the store and now hardly any - not just pro versions. Yes I bought my last trash can Mac Pro via Apple online. I get it, Apple is making billions and billions on devices, wherever they may be sold but the lack of attention and updates to pro apps and hardware is a tad scary.

Another clue to me is the new Disk Utility - which is now a dumbed down consumer utility with no more RAID features etc. You can't even re-size the window anymore.

It was at a Vegas premiere that I resolved to become an avid FCPX user.

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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Bret Williams
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 13, 2016 at 6:24:42 pm

I believe Raid has been put back in Sierra.


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Oliver Peters
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 12, 2016 at 10:43:29 pm

[James Culbertson] "I would assume that pro's generally don't go to Brick and Mortar Stores to make their purchases. "

Every Apple Store has a business sales unit. Even though they might need to bring in the right product for you, I've always had good luck with them. What you select is likely going to be a built-to-order machine anyway. So yes, there's no reason not to go to the Apple Store if you have one close by.

However, on the showroom floor, the target customer is the consumer, who could care less about any of the hi-end Macs. The same would apply to Dells, too.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Lance Bachelder
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 12, 2016 at 11:54:16 pm

I stand by my observation that Macs are disappearing from the Apple retail stores and they've become a device-centric company. They could stop making Pro apps and Mac Pro's tomorrow and probably be a more efficient company. My guess is that day is coming... eventually.

And thanks for the lessons about online ordering and BTO... who knew?

It was at a Vegas premiere that I resolved to become an avid FCPX user.

Lance Bachelder
Writer, Editor, Director
Downtown Long Beach, California
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1680680/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1


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James Culbertson
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 13, 2016 at 12:19:49 am

[Lance Bachelder] "They could stop making Pro apps and Mac Pro's tomorrow and probably be a more efficient company."

The question is not whether they would be more efficient. The question is whether they are making a profit or not. As long as they are making a profit they will continue to make Mac Pros and Pro Apps.

There is also the question of whether such pro machines and apps help the profitability of their devices... the profitability of the whole ecosystem is greater than the parts kind of thinking.


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Scott Witthaus
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 13, 2016 at 1:18:35 am

[Lance Bachelder] "My guess is that day is coming... eventually."

And the day Avid disappears is coming too. And the day Adobe cranks up it's subscription price is coming. And the day BMD realizes it's stretched WAY to thin and kills the free Resolve because it eats into the potential sales of it's paid version...

I got work to do tomorrow....down in the easy chair...

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Darren Roark
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 13, 2016 at 3:51:22 pm

> And the day BMD realizes it's stretched WAY to thin and kills the free Resolve because it eats into the potential sales of it's paid version...

Never gonna happen.


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Scott Witthaus
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 13, 2016 at 11:23:37 pm

[Darren Roark] "
Never gonna happen."


famous last words! :-)

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Darren Roark
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 13, 2016 at 11:31:44 pm

[Scott Witthaus] "famous last words! :-)"

For the hardware manufacturers supporting multiple paid versions of apps is hell. With Resolve, if you are using it for 'pro stuff' you need to buy a thing from them.

Plus you give away the color grading thing, it's easier to find all the would be colorists out there in the world who will demand to use Resolve.

Win/win.

Unless some securities laws change, this is the new normal.


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Scott Witthaus
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 14, 2016 at 12:41:19 am

[Darren Roark] "With Resolve, if you are using it for 'pro stuff' you need to buy a thing from them.
"


But where do you cut off the "free stuff"? So many people like Resolve because it's free. And it can kind of edit. Where does BMD say "no, that's it. Any more and you pay $999".

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Darren Roark
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 14, 2016 at 1:42:25 am

[Scott Witthaus] "Where does BMD say "no, that's it. Any more and you pay $999"."

Probably when Avid is out of business and Adobe can't afford to develop Premiere anymore.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 14, 2016 at 5:09:24 pm

[Darren Roark] "Plus you give away the color grading thing, it's easier to find all the would be colorists out there in the world who will demand to use Resolve. "

Pro grading shops I work with have moved away from Resolve since it's now free.

They didn't like the Blackmagic acquisition and thought that it would eventually devalue their business.


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Darren Roark
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 14, 2016 at 6:01:23 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Pro grading shops I work with have moved away from Resolve since it's now free."

It's to ensure the downstream income stays with them.

[Jeremy Garchow] "They didn't like the Blackmagic acquisition and thought that it would eventually devalue their business."

And they are right, the shops that are doing that in LA as a reactionary measure for that reason are succeeding in turning off producers and post sups.

Blackmagic aren't the people they need to worry about, it's the home colorists and independent owner operators who have worked at major facilities. They are much easier to deal with and charge much less.


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Oliver Peters
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 14, 2016 at 9:02:22 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Pro grading shops I work with have moved away from Resolve since it's now free.
"


So their value is in the tool, not the talent? And for the real pro shops, BMD would prefer to sell the larger $30K panel.

[Jeremy Garchow] "They didn't like the Blackmagic acquisition and thought that it would eventually devalue their business."

They would have preferred a bankrupt DaVinci?

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 14, 2016 at 9:15:29 pm

[Oliver Peters] "So their value is in the tool, not the talent? And for the real pro shops, BMD would prefer to sell the larger $30K panel.
"


Of course not. But it sometimes is in the tool. Producers, Directors, whoever, sometimes need to see an expensive tool to "legitimize" the costs to clients. Sad but true.

[Oliver Peters] "They would have preferred a bankrupt DaVinci?"

Seems so.


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Darren Roark
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 14, 2016 at 10:37:52 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Of course not. But it sometimes is in the tool. Producers, Directors, whoever, sometimes need to see an expensive tool to "legitimize" the costs to clients. Sad but true."

Agreed, especially in advertising work this is the case. If the ad fails it's because the ad failed, they used the best people and stuff to make it happen so no fingers can be pointed. No expense was spared.

The thing is though, there are also ad agencies that are starting to use FCP X for pitch reels, rough cuts of spots, etc. Two different places I've worked for at their in house facility I've cut sizzle reels and the senior creatives couldn't believe how much quicker it was to try things out than what they were used to.

The common question I get is something like "Why do people hate this program so much if it works this well?"

With the client I'm comfortable making jokes with I just smiled and said "I dunno, you're the ad wizard, you tell me."

I just don't see how much longer the idea of paying for the 'machine' will last. It's only been seven years since facilities stopped charging a premium for HD work.

Any facility that makes decisions based on paying more for the more expensive machine because they can justify the cost even if it's not the better system is doomed to fail.

I can win any argument with one dumb irrelevant statement. "Resolve was good enough for JJ Abrams to do the color finishing of Star Wars, what benefits do "Color System X" have that I need that Resolve doesn't?"

The cat is out of the bag and it's not going back in peacefully.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 14, 2016 at 10:59:01 pm

[Darren Roark] "The cat is out of the bag and it's not going back in peacefully."

It's been out of the bag for quite some time. I was just giving an anecdotal response to Resolve's freemium model.

I don't want FCPX to be free. It's nice that it's cheap, but honestly, I'd pay more for it, but I'd expect more from Apple.

If they decide to go subscription with their own apps with the new app store models, I'd definitely expect more from it. Like, a lot more.


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Darren Roark
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 14, 2016 at 11:51:57 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "I don't want FCPX to be free. It's nice that it's cheap, but honestly, I'd pay more for it, but I'd expect more from Apple."

I paid over $15K for my version of FCP X so far, that's two MBPs and one fully spec'd nMP.

What aren't you getting from them now that you would expect if you were paying monthly for it?


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 15, 2016 at 12:14:17 am

[Darren Roark] "I paid over $15K for my version of FCP X so far, that's two MBPs and one fully spec'd nMP.
"


You would have to assign the cost of a computer and ancillary equipment to any NLE/Program you're running. You shouldn't assign the cost of a computer to FCPX alone.

I would expect quicker updates to get rid of the real life bugs in the application. And I'd expect more major feature updates/workflow enhancements than once every 1.5 years or so.


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Darren Roark
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 15, 2016 at 4:46:13 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "I would expect quicker updates to get rid of the real life bugs in the application."

I'm not going to say it's perfect, but it's been far more reliable than the Premiere jobs I've done recently. The updates are generally bug fixes that actually fix things in my experience.



[Jeremy Garchow] " And I'd expect more major feature updates/workflow enhancements than once every 1.5 years or so."

I guess people are still sore about 3D text.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 15, 2016 at 12:41:09 pm

[Darren Roark] "I'm not going to say it's perfect, but it's been far more reliable than the Premiere jobs I've done recently. The updates are generally bug fixes that actually fix things in my experience.
"


I only use Pr when I have to. I don't really care how Pr is worse or better than fcpx, I want FCPX to be better in relation to itself, not other NLEs. That is to say Apple's development pace with FCPX has been fairly lackluster this passed 1.5 years. There are real XML bugs, there are real workflow deficiencies, and these problems have been present across many updates now, going to back to 10.1.

Some things have been fixed, true, but some things, big things, have not been addressed.

I don't know if you have Logic X, but Logic gets many updates, and sometimes they are simple big fixes, other times the list of features and fixes won't fit on a webpage after 3 years of development after release.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT203718

Here's FCPX which represents 5 years of development after release.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201237

I know there's a double secret society version of FCPX that has been previewed for a select group of NDA'd individuals back in April. I'm wondering where it is, and when the big fixes are coming. Actually, who cares about the new one, when are the bug fixes coming?


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Oliver Peters
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 15, 2016 at 3:07:01 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] " That is to say Apple's development pace with FCPX has been fairly lackluster this passed 1.5 years."

I've long contended that everything prior to 10.1 was in the pipeline before the release of 10.0. 10.1 was a revamp of the application and I believe in response to either, a) customer requests, or 2) the fact that 10.0 didn't really work as well as envisioned. A lot of things after 10.1 feel like bolt-ons.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 15, 2016 at 4:11:58 pm

[Oliver Peters] "A lot of things after 10.1 feel like bolt-ons."

Again, it doesn't really matter. If Apple is implementing user prefs, isn't that what you would want?

Adobe is the king/queen of bolt-on effects so much so you can simply add whatever you want to a panel. Is that a bad thing? It's definitely not easy to look at, and the panels are sometimes not that easy to use, but is it bad to have them?

I just want a bit more rapid bug fixes. There are some bugs that are known (as they get marked as dupes) that haven't been fixed in years, literally.

I want to use FCPX. Right now, it fits our work the best. There are many upsides to FCPX. I just need a little more reciprocation and I feel like NDA-ing the preview is a really weird move.


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Walter Soyka
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 15, 2016 at 4:20:07 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "I feel like NDA-ing the preview is a really weird move."

Apple did a public preview once [link]. It may not have gone over exactly as planned.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 15, 2016 at 4:21:34 pm

[Walter Soyka] "Apple did a public preview once [link]. It may not have gone over exactly as planned."

That was so long ago. So much has changed. Everyone should have at least a little forgiveness left in their hearts, and Apple has had plenty of time to tighten up their hostile takeover attitude.


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Walter Soyka
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 15, 2016 at 4:57:54 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "That was so long ago. So much has changed. Everyone should have at least a little forgiveness left in their hearts, and Apple has had plenty of time to tighten up their hostile takeover attitude."

Surely. But secrecy is Apple's default, and this one time they stepped away from that policy, everybody went crazy.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 15, 2016 at 5:02:54 pm

[Walter Soyka] "Surely. But secrecy is Apple's default, and this one time they stepped away from that policy, everybody went crazy."

But even that has changed since 2011. Their OS and iOS is now available for public beta months and months before launch.

Hardware is previewed before launch (looking at you Watch).

Apple, as a company, has changed some since 2011. Why is FCPX still in the dark?

And those people that went crazy, they have moved on, haven't they? Aren't all of us that are left fans and supporters?


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Walter Soyka
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 15, 2016 at 5:04:24 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Apple, as a company, has changed some since 2011. Why is FCPX still in the dark?"

Good points, and an interesting question.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Charlie Austin
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 15, 2016 at 5:16:41 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "But even that has changed since 2011. Their OS and iOS is now available for public beta months and months before launch."

Yes, the OS's are previewed. Know of any Apple software that is previewed? Given roadmaps? Advertised in any way? FCP X, iMovie, Logic, Garage Band, Compressor, iTunes, all the iWorks apps? No teases, no advertising. Photos had 1 preview so people could figure out how to migrate probably. FCP X is handled no differently than any other application (not OS) that Apple makes. And there's probably a reason, I doubt it's some capricious whim on Apple's part.

People at Apple have said they would love to be able to comment/talk about stuff, but they can't. It's company policy, not just Pro Apps. Adobe, Avid, BMD, Microsoft, etc, they all advertise and talk endlessly about their software. What's the difference between all those other companies and Apple?

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~I still need to play Track Tetris sometimes. An old game that you can never win~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Charlie Austin
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 15, 2016 at 4:33:17 pm
Last Edited By Charlie Austin on Jul 15, 2016 at 4:35:00 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "There are some bugs that are known (as they get marked as dupes) that haven't been fixed in years, literally."

I'd be willing to bet that many of those are related to issues in the timeline, which is the one bit of the app that hasn't been reworked yet. Will it be? I hope so.

[Jeremy Garchow] "I feel like NDA-ing the preview is a really weird move."

Maybe their hope was that it would let people know that they truly were working on something, without letting people really know what that something was. Perhaps they prefer to get their features out in the world before other vendors copy them. ;-)

Or, maybe they hoped someone would break the NDA and tease it for them. If so, they underestimated their fanboy/girl loyalty. lol

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~I still need to play Track Tetris sometimes. An old game that you can never win~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 15, 2016 at 4:38:59 pm

[Charlie Austin] "I'd be willing to bet that many of those are related to issues in the timeline, which is the one bit of the app that hasn't been reworked yet. Will it be? I hope so. "

Definitely one of the areas I'd like to see some improvements. I love the FCPX timeline, but it could also be much more lovier. Is lovier a word? It is now.

[Charlie Austin] "Maybe their hope was that it would let people know that they truly were working on something, without letting people really know what that something was. Perhaps they prefer to get their features out in the world before other vendors copy them. ;-)

Or, maybe they hoped someone would break the NDA and tease it for them. If so, they underestimated their fanboy/girl loyalty. lol"



After five years, my speculation device is worn pretty thin.


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Bill Davis
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 15, 2016 at 6:49:21 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "I want to use FCPX. Right now, it fits our work the best. There are many upsides to FCPX. I just need a little more reciprocation and I feel like NDA-ing the preview is a really weird move."

Why?

Seems to me the point was for Apple to quietly but definitively put out the message that X is not being ignored, but rather STILL in a robust cycle of constant improvement and we've decided to take a big step - not just small incremental stuff - and that's going to take time.

Even though I was in the NDA group, I don't have a CLUE how big, small or otherwise significant what we saw will turn out to be in relation to how the overall program operates. But I can say that what we saw went WELL beyond the "bug fix" level. That I can absolutely assure you.

To me, X works well now. I believe it will work even better in the future. But that says nothing about whether it will work precisely the way any individual would prefer it to work.

And that certainly includes the concept of - flawless performance in all it's micro-aspects. I don't even know if that's possible any more. I'd sure LOVE to think that it IS possible, but i'm skeptical since no NLE software company seems to have achieved that to date.

We just have to celebrate what we have and work around the limitations when they impede our preferred workflows until the change arrives. And then hope the change improves what bothers each of us the most. Of course it literally can't because what bothers each of us most isn't always the same thing.

Maybe thats just the new normal.

And so it goes.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 15, 2016 at 7:06:42 pm

[Bill Davis] "Seems to me the point was for Apple to quietly but definitively put out the message that X is not being ignored, but rather STILL in a robust cycle of constant improvement and we've decided to take a big step - not just small incremental stuff - and that's going to take time.
"


And they are saying that to a few hundred people at a trade show? Why?


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Michael Hancock
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 15, 2016 at 7:19:18 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "[Bill Davis] "Seems to me the point was for Apple to quietly but definitively put out the message that X is not being ignored, but rather STILL in a robust cycle of constant improvement and we've decided to take a big step - not just small incremental stuff - and that's going to take time.
"

And they are saying that to a few hundred people at a trade show? Why?"


This is what bothers me most about Apple. The unnecessary secrecy, particularly for the ProApps division.

They decide to tease new features in FCPX, a program purported to be used by millions of people, but they only show it to a room full of people who happen to be in Vegas and happen to be at that hotel/conference room and happen to be there at the right time and are willing to sign an NDA? If Apple wanted to definitively put the message out there that X was not being ignore, this isn't how you do it.

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


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Charlie Austin
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 15, 2016 at 7:54:04 pm

[Michael Hancock] "If Apple wanted to definitively put the message out there that X was not being ignore, this isn't how you do it."

They have said this repeatedly at numerous events, and it's been repeated endlessly by people, including me, who have heard them say it. They've also said they can't talk about it publicly, and I'm not entirely sure that it's because they want to be all secretive.

Apple used to advertise and talk publicly about all their software, pro apps and consumer apps. That changed, for all their software, within the last few years. At about the same time, Avid, Adobe, Microsoft and most others went to some flavor of a subscription model. Maybe the same thing precipitated all these changes? Or do you think that all software vendors just decided to shake things up at exactly the same time?

Note that the only company that also makes the computer on which the software exclusively runs, now does not promote their software. They sell it, but they don't advertise it, or preview it, or anything. Is it because they're mean? Bad Apple! Is it a conspiracy to keep everyone in the dark? Apple is abandoning pros! Or is there some legal/financial/accounting mumbo jumbo that prevents them from doing so?

I don't know the answer, but I don't believe all this is because of Apple's secretive culture. Some? Sure. But I think there's more to this than we're aware of.

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~I still need to play Track Tetris sometimes. An old game that you can never win~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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James Culbertson
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 15, 2016 at 7:58:34 pm
Last Edited By James Culbertson on Jul 15, 2016 at 7:59:00 pm

[Michael Hancock] "They decide to tease new features in FCPX, a program purported to be used by millions of people, but they only show it to a room full of people..."

What percentage of those millions of people are actually all that worried about the future of FCPX, as opposed to having a desire for this function or that function, and perhaps fixes for a couple of outstanding bugs?

I'd love to know what was presented at that gathering, but for me knowing it happened is one small bit of info that there is a future for FCPX.

Though to be honest, I don't spend much time worrying about the future of any of the current NLEs. Any of them could go away, change drastically, or become unusable or unaffordable for some reason or other. Change is a given so why worry about it; that is just the way things are now with regards to all things in video production.

I do enjoy following these discussions when I have the time though.


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Bill Davis
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 15, 2016 at 8:54:11 pm

[Michael Hancock] "The unnecessary secrecy, particularly for the ProApps division."

Well....

the way THEY do things has led to them becoming one of the leading companies on the planet with the resources to do huge things effectively.

Perhaps they would be even bigger and stronger if they tipped their hand more. But that's speculation.

What they HAVE done - has led to where we are now.

So it's worked.

Making you or me feel better isn't really the point is it? It's doing what gets them the result they want.

And so far, it has. That's kinda hard to argue.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Bill Davis
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 15, 2016 at 8:49:08 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "And they are saying that to a few hundred people at a trade show? Why?"

I presume because that's what was an acceptable approach within the levels of decision making involved at Apple.

Clearly to a business such as Apple - one of the largest companies on the globe - there is a major concern with message discipline so the company doesn't have to contend with the fallout of the right hand saying A and the left hand saying B. One extremely effective solution to that that is to say as little as possible. We might not like that. But it's proven to work for them. When they do release things, generally it's fresh news.

Apple doesn't just design, they have a crystal clear track record of DELIVERING innovation over time. So sooner or later, this too will be in the marketplace for people to love, hate, or for all I know, just be indifferent towards.

The only thing I'm ABSOLUTELY sure of, is that we'll argue about it here. Cuz that's what we do!

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 15, 2016 at 8:57:18 pm

[Bill Davis] "Clearly to a business such as Apple - one of the largest companies on the globe - there is a major concern with message discipline so the company doesn't have to contend with the fallout of the right hand saying A and the left hand saying B. One extremely effective solution to that that is to say as little as possible. We might not like that. But it's proven to work for them. When they do release things, generally it's fresh news. "

But this is a company who's stock price goes down when they didn't announce what the analysts though they would, yet they continue to do public live streamed announcements.

An NDA for a piddly NLE and not one little peep of it anywhere?

Either Apple is scrubbing the internet of any mentions, or whatever was shown wasn't all that great. In which case, where are the bug fixes?


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Oliver Peters
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 15, 2016 at 9:01:01 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Either Apple is scrubbing the internet of any mentions, or whatever was shown wasn't all that great. In which case, where are the bug fixes?"

Or the people there chose to honor the NDA and play nice. Or actual release has been so damn long in coming that we all forgot what was shown. :)

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Steve Connor
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 16, 2016 at 10:35:01 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "[Bill Davis] "Clearly to a business such as Apple - one of the largest companies on the globe - there is a major concern with message discipline so the company doesn't have to contend with the fallout of the right hand saying A and the left hand saying B. One extremely effective solution to that that is to say as little as possible. We might not like that. But it's proven to work for them. When they do release things, generally it's fresh news. "

But this is a company who's stock price goes down when they didn't announce what the analysts though they would, yet they continue to do public live streamed announcements.

An NDA for a piddly NLE and not one little peep of it anywhere?

Either Apple is scrubbing the internet of any mentions, or whatever was shown wasn't all that great. In which case, where are the bug fixes?"


The mighty Apple will deliver something in their own good time, no point in moaning about it, let's all count ourselves lucky when they do :)


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Oliver Peters
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 15, 2016 at 8:05:44 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Again, it doesn't really matter. If Apple is implementing user prefs, isn't that what you would want?"

I guess that's my point. Other than consolidated libraries, I don't believe they have been implementing user requests, except where those already coincide with the design team's established goals. Even the 10.1 library shift might have come about because internally they also decided that the prior approach was not good. Bear in mind that's not atypical for software developers, but I feel like Apple is way more insular than others. It's their way or the highway.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 15, 2016 at 8:16:33 pm

[Oliver Peters] "I feel like Apple is way more insular than others. It's their way or the highway.
"


In a way I understand this. If clients were allowed to shoot and edit all of the videos we produce for them, they would end up a lot different and perhaps not worse, but my wager would be that they wouldn't be better and my job as mediator to their madness wouldn't be very prudent.

Again, I don't really know or care, but there are bugs to the things that Apple has designed and released. They should probably be fixed as it was Apple that implemented them, not users.


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Darren Roark
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 15, 2016 at 11:48:24 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Again, I don't really know or care, but there are bugs to the things that Apple has designed and released. They should probably be fixed as it was Apple that implemented them, not users."

What are on your list?

Mine are that copying complex or long projects to another event just beachballs for a really long time and you have to hover the beachball over the event for 1-2 minutes to get a crack at moving it.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 16, 2016 at 2:15:28 am

I've pointed out the XML bugs with 'synchronized' clips.

Titles sometimes lose fonts randomly.

Relinking stills somehow corrupts the timeline instances of the files and their placement. It's this problem here: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/6042545?tstart=0

Relinking issues with clips that shouldn't have relinking issues forcing relinking out of the app which means you may lose information in the XML jockey.

Playing clips with silent channels of audio sometimes slows the entire app to a halt.

Some audio channels are reported incorrectly in both FCPX and compressor in QT movies.

The showstopper is the XML bugs though. Those are hard to workaround, as well as the audio channel misreporting.

There's also a long list of usability improvements that I'm sure most of us could agree upon.

Although, a lot of slow down issues have been solved by moving back to AJA products for video out. I should have never left.


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Darren Roark
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 17, 2016 at 12:33:17 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "The showstopper is the XML bugs though. Those are hard to workaround, as well as the audio channel misreporting. "

Is this happening when going from FCP X to another app? Or going from FCP X directly back to FCP X?


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 17, 2016 at 12:56:42 pm

[Darren Roark] "happening when going from FCP X to another app? Or going from FCP X directly back to FCP X?
"


https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/344/43081


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Oliver Peters
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 15, 2016 at 12:01:17 am

[Jeremy Garchow] "Of course not. But it sometimes is in the tool. Producers, Directors, whoever, sometimes need to see an expensive tool to "legitimize" the costs to clients. Sad but true."

I think it's hard to pin all of that on BMD. The high-end color correction market has been decimated in large part because almost no one shoots on film any longer. That has overlapped with raw and/or log-enabled cameras and low-cost color correction tools.

Other than certain markets like LA, NY, Chicago and maybe Minneapolis, the "hero" color correction suites have taken a huge hit. For instance, the Miami market used to have a number of high-end color correction rooms including telecine and tape-to-tape. I was looking for a resource down there yesterday and that's all largely gone. However, one of the top colorists has been doing fine with a remote, come-to-your-place business model. Talent still wins out.

Since I also play a colorist on TV, I have done the grading on nearly all the projects I work on as an editor. Only occasionally do clients find any value in spending $1200/hour on a top-end color correction room in NY or LA. Heck, I rarely work face to face with too many clients anymore anyway. So it really doesn't matter what I use.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Darren Roark
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 15, 2016 at 12:24:57 am

[Oliver Peters] "The high-end color correction market has been decimated in large part because almost no one shoots on film any longer."

Here in LA the major facilities are still trying to keep that reality alive using the 'digital lab' business model.

I completely agree that the part of this that people forget is that BMD buys tried and true tech for pennies on the dollar once the bottom drops out of the driving specialized need.

The fact you can buy a film scanner for the same price as a low end Prius nowadays is the last chip in the dam.

I am in a situation now where we contracted for a 4K final, the place the producers went with said they grade 2K DPXs on their "Not Resolve" system and that's just how they do it. I sent the white paper to them on how well the "Brand-X" color grading system handles native r3d's and has for four years.

4K is now a Netflix delivery standard for acquisitions.

For whatever reason they didn't think we were serious and just did the 2K DPX grading anyway. Essentially they said they would have to start over from scratch. This is a big mess.

Paying for talent as opposed to gear will win sooner than later.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 15, 2016 at 12:58:09 am

[Oliver Peters] "I think it's hard to pin all of that on BMD. The high-end color correction market has been decimated in large part because almost no one shoots on film any longer. That has overlapped with raw and/or log-enabled cameras and low-cost color correction tools."

I don't know. I am using more external color correction than ever. There are anecdotes for everything, I guess.


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Walter Soyka
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 13, 2016 at 8:53:36 pm

[Lance Bachelder] "They could stop making Pro apps and Mac Pro's tomorrow and probably be a more efficient company. My guess is that day is coming... eventually."

[Scott Witthaus] "And the day Avid disappears is coming too. And the day Adobe cranks up it's subscription price is coming. And the day BMD realizes it's stretched WAY to thin and kills the free Resolve because it eats into the potential sales of it's paid version..."

Don't panic, friends. When that seventh seal cracks open, Autodesk Smoke will be there to Change Everything.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Scott Witthaus
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 13, 2016 at 11:02:06 pm

[Walter Soyka] "When that seventh seal cracks open, Autodesk Smoke will be there to Change Everything."

With Xpri by it's side riding on a flaming Flame.

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Dean Neal
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 16, 2016 at 4:11:58 am

Correct - I deal with Apple Store's Business unit, they are great and often offer some discounts on purchasing through them. It makes sense to 'face up' their stock in shop for the average consumer - which gravitates to the i-Devices.

Dean Neal...


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Eric Santiago
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 13, 2016 at 1:18:36 pm

[James Culbertson] "I would assume that pro's generally don't go to Brick and Mortar Stores to make their purchases. When is the last time you have made a major purchase of a Mac or PC at an actual store versus online? "

So true. Im but f' of nowhere and I havent seen a nMP at the local Apple Store since 2013.

We buy from big distros and only reason Id walk into an Apple Store is to charge up my dying 5s :P


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Darren Roark
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 13, 2016 at 11:13:45 pm

[Eric Santiago] "So true. Im but f' of nowhere and I havent seen a nMP at the local Apple Store since 2013."

Is it an official Apple store? They should all have the same stuff in every store.


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Oliver Peters
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 13, 2016 at 11:22:36 pm

[Darren Roark] "hey should all have the same stuff in every store.
"


I don't believe that's true because It depends on sales around town. If you are in a location with more than one store, they often call around to the other stores (or check their computerized inventories) to find a configuration that might not exist in that specific location.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Bill Davis
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 14, 2016 at 12:18:56 am

That's just the "efficient assortment" retail thing in action.

There's a base stocking profile that gets adjusted within limits by the store management in response to their sales. A store in LA to service the huge creative community there will be stocked differently than a store in say, Lexington KY.

Stores near colleges probably sell more headphones than stores near major retirement areas.

Just how retail works.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Craig Seeman
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 14, 2016 at 3:18:18 am

[Bill Davis] "Stores near colleges probably sell more headphones than stores near major retirement areas."

In the latter they would just rebrand them as hearing aids.



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Scott Thomas
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 14, 2016 at 6:09:50 am

My local Apple store is both in "retirement central" and a university. One day I was there, the employees were excited that Wilford Brimley had been in earlier.


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Darren Roark
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 14, 2016 at 1:25:13 am

[Oliver Peters] "If you are in a location with more than one store, they often call around to the other stores (or check their computerized inventories) to find a configuration that might not exist in that specific location.
"


I was meaning demo units in the main bit of the store. My understanding is that they are supposed to have the same products on display consistently. Not necessarily the same quantity.


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Bill Davis
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 14, 2016 at 6:54:50 pm
Last Edited By Bill Davis on Jul 15, 2016 at 1:07:24 am

Darren's right. In national chain retail, whether it's Apple or PetSmart, typically every item is shelved according to a plan-o-gram - the shelf display map that seeks to insure that every store has the same products in the same locations across the chain.
That way employees can move between stores as required and know where things are.
The variance you see between stores is usually because adjustments are needed for the specific store pad size and shape that's been leased.
There might be fixed plans for small, medium, large and flagship store classes, but the real estate division and store design teams have to take the actual leased footprint and make things work.
So I suspect whether a particular store displays two, one or no MacPros isn't a tea leaf about the product, as much as about that store's specifics.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Gary Huff
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 14, 2016 at 1:46:30 pm

[Lance Bachelder] "I visited an Apple store Sunday for the first time in a while and was saddened that there a lone Mac Pro and a coulee of iMacs against a wall and the rest of the store was all devices."

I am in the market for a Mac Pro, but I want a refreshed model, not the 2013. Be a sad year if that doesn't come into existence.


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Tim Wilson
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 16, 2016 at 6:40:54 pm

[Oliver Peters] "I don't believe they have been implementing user requests, except where those already coincide with the design team's established goals."

This has ALWAYS been the case, or at least it was under Jobs. It was the one consistent theme in his career. He laid it out at length in a 1985 interview, going so far as to say that everything that was wrong with his competitors could be traced to their reliance on customer input. He reiterated it a number of times along the way, including a 2008 profile in Forbes, where he said that customer input is worthless because customers don't know what's coming. He does, said he.

I'm not saying that anyone on the pro apps team "doesn't care" about customers or their input. That's clearly not the case. They do care. But I think that their degrees of freedom to implement customer-driven changes are constrained by design practices that are etched in stone in Apple's DNA.

Tim Cook is generally much more customer-focused, so their approach could change, but really, why should they change a thing? They take their successes in any area as a ratification of every one of their policies in all areas. There's plenty of reasons that people have left the Apple fold over the years, but if there's more than 5 or 6 who stomped off because Apple plays its cards close to the vest, I'd be shocked.

Apple customers reward Apple for being Apple. And that includes this.


[Steve Connor] "The mighty Apple will deliver something in their own good time, no point in moaning about it, let's all count ourselves lucky when they do :)"






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Misha Aranyshev
Re: A bridge too far?
on Jul 19, 2016 at 3:54:54 am

FCP handling 24@25 film workflow was implemented after Apple was presented with a very comprehensive white paper and petition with a long list of signatures. This played out very well when DI became widespread.


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Phil Lowe
Re: A bridge too far?
on Aug 16, 2016 at 11:32:24 am

Been using X for about a month now editing news packages. Last couple I've had to do were cut under intense deadline pressure but made slot. Using my Avid shortcut keys has really made the transition smoother than it otherwise would've been, but audio continues to be a major league PITA! So if there are any X developers reading this, PLEASE give us a bona fide audio mixer instead of the garbage pan & volume slider in the inspector!

There's nothing I've done in X that I hadn't ever been able to do in Avid just as quickly, (except overlays when compositing which I have had absolutely no use for in my news workflow so far) and audio mixing (which is much faster and easier in Avid.)

As far as any updates go? I don't use X at home except to trim up 4K clips for sale on Shutterstock, so no update threatens that workflow (unless they take UHD support out of the program.) As to whether any update will be installed by the admins at work is a different issue. Any threat of workflow interruption would potentially cause an update to be ignored.

I can only think of one other update I'd really like to see: give us audio and video tracks! ;)

Canon XF-300, Canon 5DMkIII, Canon 7D MkII, Avid Media Composer 7.05, Adobe CC 2015, iMovie Pro.


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Scott Witthaus
Re: A bridge too far?
on Aug 16, 2016 at 11:46:25 am

[Phil Lowe] "sing my Avid shortcut keys has really made the transition smoother than it otherwise would've been, but audio continues to be a major league PITA! So if there are any X developers reading this, PLEASE give us a bona fide audio mixer instead of the garbage pan & volume slider in the inspector! "

This is the mistake you make: trying to make X work like Avid. Learn the software the way it was designed, not based on what you know from traditional track-based softwares.

Full mixer for news packages? Why? Seems to me you can do those 1:15's all day long without a mixer?

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Phil Lowe
Re: A bridge too far?
on Aug 16, 2016 at 11:56:43 am

[Scott Witthaus] "This is the mistake you make: trying to make X work like Avid. Learn the software the way it was designed, not based on what you know from traditional track-based softwares."

Not a mistake if I get the job done. And I get the job done. And yes, I do want an Avid/FCP7/Premiere CC-type audio mixer, complete with track patching and clip-ganging. I realize leaving a real audio mixer out of the X workflow is probably less threatening to kids editing cat videos for youtube, but an honest-to-goodness mixer doesn't threaten me in the least.

Canon XF-300, Canon 5DMkIII, Canon 7D MkII, Avid Media Composer 7.05, Adobe CC 2015, iMovie Pro.


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Phil Lowe
Re: A bridge too far?
on Aug 16, 2016 at 11:59:51 am

And by the way, if keyboard remapping shouldn't be used in X, why did they put it in there?

I have a workflow that works for me. Your mileage may vary.

Canon XF-300, Canon 5DMkIII, Canon 7D MkII, Avid Media Composer 7.05, Adobe CC 2015, iMovie Pro.


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Walter Soyka
Re: A bridge too far?
on Aug 17, 2016 at 3:10:05 am

[Scott Witthaus] "This is the mistake you make: trying to make X work like Avid. Learn the software the way it was designed, not based on what you know from traditional track-based softwares."

[Phil Lowe] "Not a mistake if I get the job done. And I get the job done."

Would you encourage someone new to Avid to approach it the way you've approached FCP X? Or would you say that there are a few important things that Avid does fundamentally different than other NLEs, and that there's a real benefit to learning the Avid way and driving Avid like it was designed to be driven?

Personally, I find trying to remap keys identically in similar apps to be frustrating -- they never work quite the same, and they never have exactly the same feature sets, so they may as well be different. But of course, your mileage may vary.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Charlie Austin
Re: A bridge too far?
on Aug 17, 2016 at 3:33:49 am

[Walter Soyka] "Personally, I find trying to remap keys identically in similar apps to be frustrating -- they never work quite the same, and they never have exactly the same feature sets, so they may as well be different."

I'm with ya there, I jump between NLE's and I always learn the defaults. The only thing I do is make additions. You miss way too much functionality. Big X updates usually add new features, with new KB shortcuts, so I start over from defaults when that happens. All NLE's let you play, and choose a source I/O the same way, after that, nothing is the same. ;-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~I still need to play Track Tetris sometimes. An old game that you can never win~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Phil Lowe
Re: A bridge too far?
on Aug 17, 2016 at 3:34:08 am

[Walter Soyka] "Would you encourage someone new to Avid to approach it the way you've approached FCP X?"

I would encourage them to do whatever it takes to get to speed as quickly as possible. Even Avid's keyboards can be remapped, and that's exactly what I did as soon as I started to work with it. I have never used the default keyboard in any NLE I've ever used, and have been able to beat deadlines routinely with all of them: Newscutter, Media Composer, FCP7, Premiere Pro, and now FCPX.

News doesn't afford the luxury of taking your time to fully learn a system, especially one as quirky as X. You're expected to start cutting on it after a couple of days of training, so anything you can bring to bear on it from your former experience - including workflows - that gets you turning packages in 30 minutes or less, is what you need to do.

So yes, again my answer would be do whatever gets you up to speed as quickly as possible.

Canon XF-300, Canon 5DMkIII, Canon 7D MkII, Avid Media Composer 7.05, Adobe CC 2015, iMovie Pro.


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Phil Lowe
Re: A bridge too far?
on Aug 17, 2016 at 3:57:45 am

[Walter Soyka] "Would you encourage someone new to Avid to approach it the way you've approached FCP X?"

I would encourage them to do whatever it takes to get to speed as quickly as possible. Even Avid's keyboards can be remapped, and that's exactly what I did as soon as I started to work with it. I have never used the default keyboard in any NLE I've ever used, and have been able to beat deadlines routinely with all of them: Newscutter, Media Composer, FCP7, Premiere Pro, and now FCPX.

News doesn't afford the luxury of taking your time to fully learn a system, especially one as quirky as X. You're expected to start cutting on it after a couple of days of training, so anything you can bring to bear on it from your former experience - including workflows - that gets you turning packages in 30 minutes or less, is what you need to do.

[Walter Soyka] "Personally, I find trying to remap keys identically in similar apps to be frustrating -- they never work quite the same, and they never have exactly the same feature sets, so they may as well be different."

My shortcuts: C-V-B: Connect, Insert, Overwrite. I don't even use Append. It's superfluous to my workflow.
H: add edit (Blade tool)
+, -: Zoom in and out on timeline.
E,R: set in and out points.
Q: range tool (as in "quick range tool")
Z: lift from storyline.
Y,U: tops and tails.
X: ripple delete.
A,P: left as X defaults.
Spacebar: start,stop playback.
1,2,3,4: 10 frames back and forward, single frame back and forward.

These are all the keys I need to knock out a package and, except for the C,Q,A,S and +,- keys, are exactly what I've used in Avid systems for more than 20 years. As you may have noticed, I have grouped my most frequently used keys from the middle to left side of the keyboard, where I use a "touch-typing" method using the mouse for quick navigation and the 1,2,3,4 keys for precise navigation. I don't use skimming. At all. It's not precise enough for my taste.

I'm able to knock out 1:30 news packages in 20 minutes, which - by the way - is how fast I could do it using a Newscutter. The NLE is only part of the equation. The workflow is where the real speed is. We were cutting packages in 20 minutes on old 3/4" tape and Beta SP because of workflows that the format would dictate.

Yes, my workflow works very well for me. I wouldn't expect anyone else to use it, especially someone committed to a native X workflow, whatever that is.

Canon XF-300, Canon 5DMkIII, Canon 7D MkII, Avid Media Composer 7.05, Adobe CC 2015, iMovie Pro.


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Gregor Queck
Re: A bridge too far?
on Aug 17, 2016 at 8:17:25 am
Last Edited By Gregor Queck on Aug 17, 2016 at 8:38:27 am

Great reply!

In the lights of 'This Guy Edits' a question:
Would it be possible to document this 20 minute workflow in a similar fashion?
I know, rights and all that stuff, but maybe you can sell it to your employer as 'free' advertisement:)

I'm pretty sure a lot of folks would highly appreciate such an effort.....

....it would be dumb and lazy not to ask:)

. . .


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Bill Davis
Re: A bridge too far?
on Aug 17, 2016 at 7:51:55 pm

The "rights and stuff" is not trivial.

It's the reason all of us who try to post visual examples of the concepts we are learning and discussing - generally have to post our examples using the LAMEST projects we have worked on!

It's only the minor and self-funded work we hold the clear rights to post about.

Trust me, It's really annoying to have something complex sitting on your machine that a lot of people could potentially benefit from discussing - and knowing you can't show it to anyone without going through a huge time sucking hassle.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Scott Witthaus
Re: A bridge too far?
on Aug 18, 2016 at 12:53:36 pm

[Phil Lowe] "I would encourage them to do whatever it takes to get to speed as quickly as possible."


Sounding like a broken record again this year, but I just finished teaching a technical "bootcamp" to 38 graduate marketing students who start the semester in one week. Only 4 had edited before, 2 on Premiere the others on FCPX. After 2 hours of lecture and demo from me on our Terrablock system, how to set up FCPX libraries on that system and basic FCPX import, organize and edit functions they were ALL editing at the end of the 3rd hour. And experimenting with some cool shit. Barely a question asked. I guess I shouldn't be astounded after 3 years of seeing the same thing, but I was again. And in three weeks after they finish the Lynda.com FCPX essentials class, they will be that much better. Apple has done something very good with X. So much easier learning path than with FCP7.

So it seems ease of use and speed don't seem to be an issue unless one is trying to "unlearn" another software or forcing a work pattern on X that should not be done. Just my humble observations.


[Phil Lowe] "I don't even use Append. It's superfluous to my workflow."

Too bad as it might really speed up your work. The Append function is one of the most useful functions to get a project rolling. I use it all the time. Get your good clips and soundbites in a row very quickly using Append and then polish from there. It just makes the process go faster. In my educator role I tell my students not to sit there looking at the footage waiting for inspiration, rather get some stuff on the timeline (append) and start working it around. That's where the inspiration comes from; doing the work.

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Andrew Kimery
Re: A bridge too far?
on Aug 18, 2016 at 5:15:29 pm

[Scott Witthaus] "So it seems ease of use and speed don't seem to be an issue unless one is trying to "unlearn" another software "

That's been my experience when helping people learn NLEs. The first one always seems to be the easiest because the person learning is a blank slate. I think the second NLE is more difficult because you have to become a blank slate again, and that's hard because what you are trying to forget is the only point of reference you've ever had for what you are trying to learn. I think the third NLE is almost as easy as the first because by now, hopefully, the learner understands the importance of becoming a blank slate (and can do it more easily) and now that the learner has two NLEs under their belt so I think it's easier to think of things conceptually as opposed to just NLE-specific procedures.


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Tim Wilson
Re: A bridge too far?
on Aug 18, 2016 at 6:36:49 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "I think the third NLE is almost as easy as the first"

I'm one'a them thar pointy-headed liberal arts nerds that's been destroying America, and I can tell you that this is true for languages too. Learning the second one is tough, but the third one comes surprisingly easily. After that, you can learn pretty much as many as you want. Learning languages is a skillset that supersedes the TASK of learning any PARTICULAR language.

The hard part is letting go of the bad habits you picked up while learning the second one in the first place. LOL

And yes, that absolutely applies to remapping keyboard shortcuts from one application to another. If all you need to do is a task or two at hand, fine, remap shortcuts to the ones you already know. If you want to actually learn the new NLE, don't. It's a trap.

To me, though, the real ninja power is mapping each NLE to a UNIQUE set of custom keyboard shortcuts. For example, my rule is if it takes three fingers, it probably ain't short enough, so if I use the not-short-enough-cut a lot, I remap it. But I use different shortcuts in different applications, so my customized shortcuts in one NLE have nothing whatsoever to do with my customized shortcuts in another -- but I'm always looking out for efficiencies to be gained from unique remappings.

That is, there's nothing sacred about the stock shortcuts, per se. They're not incantations. They do reflect sets of priorities, though. Top level commands are top-level for a reason, but the specific assignments of keys to those top-level functions can always always always be improved upon, imo.

But that's different than deciding not to explore efficiencies already built-in...which is also different than deciding not to maximize those efficiencies even further. :-)


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: A bridge too far?
on Aug 18, 2016 at 7:58:05 pm

[Tim Wilson] "I'm always looking out for efficiencies to be gained from unique remappings. "

While I agree with the general principle that one should start by learning the mappings of the NLE itself (rather than slavishly importing mappings from a different NLE), there are so many examples of just plain downright appallingly bad choices that it is always important to consider better ways of mapping than the developers came up with.

One of my particular bones of contention is to do with zooming, which in my opinion should always be accomplished with a single unmodified keystroke and should always be achievable with the left hand (unless you happen to be left-handed). When you grasp this principle it is so obvious that you will never go back.

Simon Ubsdell
tokyo productions
hawaiki


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: A bridge too far?
on Aug 19, 2016 at 2:15:51 pm

And fcpx has to have one of the best in class remapping functions out there. N'est-ce pas?

I know it's a small thing, but it's so extremely functional and useful and it's spoiled me on other remapping interfaces.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: A bridge too far?
on Aug 18, 2016 at 10:29:05 pm

[Tim Wilson] "To me, though, the real ninja power is mapping each NLE to a UNIQUE set of custom keyboard shortcuts. "

I kinda agree and I kinda don't as default keyboards can be hit or miss. For example, PPro's kinda sucks IMO as many functions aren't mapped by default, and FCP 7's had oddities like the actual editing commands along top row function keys. Avid's default is pretty good from a 'commands probably used most often are close to each other' perspective, but even then it depends on what commands you use most often.

A year or two ago I started using a Logitech G13 gamepad to replace my keyboard for 95% of my NLE needs and this really had me rethink which commands I use most often. A lot of what I use most often is pretty universal (play, pause, rev, ff, mark in, mark out, go to next edit, go to previous edit, insert, overwrite, lift, extract, replace edit, add edit, add marker, add keyframe, etc.,) so of course I'm going to remap the commands so that no matter what NLE I'm using things like that will be the same. There's no reason insert edit should be a different key for every NLE I own (which I think is up to six now).

With that being said, not all the NLE's have the exact same feature set so each of my keyboard/G13 layouts is unique in the end even though the core commands the same no matter which NLE I'm using.


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Joe Marler
Re: A bridge too far?
on Aug 18, 2016 at 10:59:29 pm

[Scott Witthaus] "After 2 hours of lecture and demo...they were ALL editing at the end of the 3rd hour... Barely a question asked... much easier learning path than with FCP7...So it seems ease of use and speed don't seem to be an issue unless one is trying to "unlearn" another software or forcing a work pattern on X that should not be done...

You've had good results and we've heard of many "new student" situations like that. However I think there's a valid point that some things on FCPX are simply less intuitive than a track-oriented editor. E.g, doing a J or L cut "the FCPX way", vs detaching the audio.

With a track-oriented editor the A and V tracks are just right there in front of you and there is no concealment or special deductive reasoning to figure it out. With FCPX I'm not sure I could have ever figured the "right way" of doing a J/L cut it out if I didn't see a tutorial video. Apple page on doing split edits: https://support.apple.com/kb/PH12635?locale=en_US

The new way made sense once I learned to do it, but (to me) it wasn't an intuitive, discoverable process.

One of the most extreme examples is stabilizing or applying optical smoothing to a multicam clip in FCPX vs Premiere. In Premiere it is intuitive and logical, whereas in FCPX it (ironically) requires an arcane sequence of steps.


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Misha Aranyshev
Re: A bridge too far?
on Aug 19, 2016 at 5:55:14 am

[Scott Witthaus] "In my educator role I tell my students not to sit there looking at the footage waiting for inspiration, rather get some stuff on the timeline (append) and start working it around. "

Short-attention-span-instant-gratification crowd is quite big. It makes sense to cater to them if you're after the numbers.


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Scott Witthaus
Re: A bridge too far?
on Aug 19, 2016 at 12:27:13 pm

[Misha Aranyshev] "Short-attention-span-instant-gratification crowd is quite big. It makes sense to cater to them if you're after the numbers.
"


Would you care to expand on this? Right now I am having difficulty connecting the above to anything.

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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James Culbertson
Re: A bridge too far?
on Aug 19, 2016 at 9:42:05 pm

[Scott Witthaus] "[Misha Aranyshev] "Short-attention-span-instant-gratification crowd is quite big. It makes sense to cater to them if you're after the numbers."

Would you care to expand on this? Right now I am having difficulty connecting the above to anything."


It isn't connected to anything. Misha is trolling you. Best to ignore.


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Walter Soyka
Re: A bridge too far?
on Aug 18, 2016 at 4:24:15 pm

[Phil Lowe] "News doesn't afford the luxury of taking your time to fully learn a system, especially one as quirky as X. You're expected to start cutting on it after a couple of days of training, so anything you can bring to bear on it from your former experience - including workflows - that gets you turning packages in 30 minutes or less, is what you need to do. "

The fact that you're in a fast-paced environment is, in my mind, all the more reason to learn your tools inside-out. It's like that Abraham Lincoln line, "If I had six hours to chop down a tree, I'd spend the first four hours sharpening the axe." If you are using the exact same workflow, irrespective of your tools or your situation, I bet your axe is not as sharp as it could be.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Walter Soyka
Re: A bridge too far?
on Aug 18, 2016 at 4:27:39 pm

That said, you're the expert on your own workflow. I don't presume to know your job better than you do. I just disagree with you on how to compare the utility of a couple different tools.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Scott Witthaus
Re: A bridge too far?
on Aug 17, 2016 at 8:54:01 pm

[Phil Lowe] " I realize leaving a real audio mixer out of the X workflow is probably less threatening to kids editing cat videos for youtube, but an honest-to-goodness mixer doesn't threaten me in the least."

Well, I guess if we get a mixer, my "cat videos" can only get better on YouTube!

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Charlie Austin
Re: A bridge too far?
on Aug 17, 2016 at 9:34:11 pm

[Phil Lowe] " realize leaving a real audio mixer out of the X workflow is probably less threatening to kids editing cat videos for youtube, but an honest-to-goodness mixer doesn't threaten me in the least."

Prior to my wearing my editor hat, I was a Mixer here in LA. Trailers, indie features, tv spots etc. Full time for maybe 5-6 years. I'm not threatened by a mixer either. At all. Thing is, in about 20 years of editing on MC, FCP old, on to X and Pr, I've used an NLE mixer to "mix" maybe... 4 times. Seriously. Might be nice to have, but don't miss it at all.

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~I still need to play Track Tetris sometimes. An old game that you can never win~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Dean Neal
Re: A bridge too far?
on Aug 17, 2016 at 11:27:29 am

[Phil Lowe] "o if there are any X developers reading this, PLEASE give us a bona fide audio mixer instead of the garbage pan & volume slider in the inspector!
"


I agree FCPX's Audio automation is one of its challenges, however using the Range Selection (R) tool with audio on the project timeline is more than adequate IMHO.

Then with keyboard shortcuts in the project timeline, you can make tweaks to audio as you need.

Knowing how simple News Edits (and the software used by them) is often very basic - I am surprised you need anything that elaborate.

Network TEN in Australia for example - use Vizrt EasyCut and it is very simplistic indeed.

What I would like to see however in 'X' is a baked in quick audio-only dissolve (I use one thats a hack now) and also would like to see a ROLES based mixer for more complex edits and projects.

Dean Neal...


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