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Oliver Peters
New FCPX next week?
on Jun 6, 2016 at 11:17:37 pm

The rumor mill seems to point to next week's WWDC to be a software-oriented event, instead of showcasing new Apple hardware. I wonder if that will include the next version of FCPX?

http://9to5mac.com/2016/06/02/apple-wwdc-no-external-display-software/

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Tim Wilson
Re: New FCPX next week?
on Jun 7, 2016 at 1:37:22 am

MacRumors has a nice round-up, as speculative as anyone else's I assume, but well argued that they think it'll be new OS X (including iTunes, Siri on the desktop, etc), new iOS, new watchOS, and new tvOS.

I'd been wondering if there might be something Thunderbolty (Thunderbolt 3?), but this has apparently been ruled out by the readers of the tea leaves. (Those green leaves ARE tea, right?)

Take a look, lemme know what you think....


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Gerry Fraiberg
Re: New FCPX next week?
on Jun 7, 2016 at 1:45:59 am

Funny, I just looked at the calendar this morning and wondered when the next FCPX update would land. That's before I read the 9to5 post.



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David Mathis
Re: New FCPX next week?
on Jun 7, 2016 at 2:04:16 am

I was thinking now that this is June if another update is around the corner. I don't read leaves, palms or look into a crystal ball. I just lack the psychic power.


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Bill Davis
Re: New FCPX next week?
on Jun 7, 2016 at 4:33:58 am

The GPU in a Display thing is really interesting.

What software in Apple's stable is most directly driven by GPU performance?

IF Apple is doing something interesting with their GPU interface in coming hardware iterations, one of the Apple products that could be expected to potentially benefit from that would clearly be GPU loving software like FCP X.

Let me be clear. This is pure, uninformed speculation only. I haven't a single clue about this topic other than as a user like everyone else.

But it's sure fun to speculate!

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Tim Wilson
Re: New FCPX next week?
on Jun 7, 2016 at 5:35:49 am

[Bill Davis] "But it's sure fun to speculate!"

Quite so. :-)

Did you look at the Macrumors article in my post above? They're quite sure that there's NO hardware, specifically refuting the monitor speculation. I like their track record for such predictions, but I wonder if Apple takes turns making these guys look like monkeys. LOL


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Walter Soyka
Re: New FCPX next week?
on Jun 7, 2016 at 1:02:30 pm

[Bill Davis] "The GPU in a Display thing is really interesting. What software in Apple's stable is most directly driven by GPU performance? IF Apple is doing something interesting with their GPU interface in coming hardware iterations, one of the Apple products that could be expected to potentially benefit from that would clearly be GPU loving software like FCP X."

NVIDIA has a brand new $600 GPU that clocks in with 9 teraflops of computing power. AMD has a brand new $200 GPU that does 5.5 teraflops. (Compare this with the 2013 Mac Pro, which with 2 GPUs in its top configuration can muster 7 teraflops).

Wouldn't it be really cool is if Apple could innovate some way to allow these GPUs to interface [link] with their professional computers, so GPU-loving software could take advantage of these advances in technology?

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Bill Davis
Re: New FCPX next week?
on Jun 7, 2016 at 3:49:19 pm

I remember back some years ago when I first heard about the thunderbolt roadmap that included the all optical "someday" Thunderbolt 3 vision.

It caused me to imagine such wide pipes that components like the CPU and GPU could conceivably sit in replaceable boxes exterior to "the computer" rather than soldered directly onto a PC Board.

I know nothing about the requirements of computer hardware design, but it's very interesting to speculate about what type of "computers" we'll be using to do our work in the future.

If you had told me when I bought my very expensive "cheese grater" Mac Pro - that in a very few years That system would be a bit of a relic and I'd be making tremendously more complex and vastly higher quality videos on my laptop - I'm not sure I'd have believed it. Yet here we are.

Creator of XinTwo - http://www.xintwo.com
The shortest path to FCP X mastery.


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Steve Connor
Re: New FCPX next week?
on Jun 7, 2016 at 4:04:52 pm

[Bill Davis] "If you had told me when I bought my very expensive "cheese grater" Mac Pro - that in a very few years That system would be a bit of a relic and I'd be making tremendously more complex and vastly higher quality videos on my laptop - I'm not sure I'd have believed it. Yet here we are."

Cheese grater Mac Pro's are not "relics"


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Walter Soyka
Re: New FCPX next week?
on Jun 8, 2016 at 11:24:36 am

[Steve Connor] "Cheese grater Mac Pro's are not "relics""

Depends on your frame of reference. But if cgMP are relics, then the nMP is a relic, too.

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2016/06/back-to-the-mac-modernizing-apples-agi...

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Andrew Kimery
Re: New FCPX next week?
on Jun 7, 2016 at 4:19:18 pm

When I first heard the GPU-in-monitor rumor I was intrigued, but the more I thought about it the more it sounded like an overly complicated solution that doesn't really solve the problem Apple created for itself. If this product ever comes to light it will probably be a monitor with an embedded mobile GPU (similar to the 5K iMac) which doesn't solve Apple's core problem of having underpowered and/or non-user replaceable GPUs in all of current products. If Apple adds a user replaceable, desktop GPU to the monitor that could be awesome but I don't see it happening when they focus is almost exclusively on thinness and low power consumption.

[Bill Davis] "It caused me to imagine such wide pipes that components like the CPU and GPU could conceivably sit in replaceable boxes exterior to "the computer" rather than soldered directly onto a PC Board.
"


My prediction when ThB dropped and the old MP started looking long in the tooth was that Apple would make a 'super mac mini' that had all expansion happening externally (including GPUs). I got the shape wrong (I didn't see the tube form factor coming) but other than that I think I was pretty on target. What I also didn't think would happen is that we'd be 5yrs down the ThB timeline and it still wouldn't offer the same amount of bandwidth you can get from the 16x PCI slot that GPUs typically plug into. Or that the new MP would still be 'new' three years later and only offer v1 of ThB. This is why I usually don't fare well in Vegas I guess...

[Bill Davis] "If you had told me when I bought my very expensive "cheese grater" Mac Pro - that in a very few years That system would be a bit of a relic and I'd be making tremendously more complex and vastly higher quality videos on my laptop - I'm not sure I'd have believed it. Yet here we are."

Computing life in a nutshell. When the first Intel powered MacMini's dropped they performed almost as well as the fastest G5 tower in CPU-centric tests. Years ago when I was used to replacing my computer every 2-3yrs if you had told me many people would be using 6 or 7 yr old towers for their daily work I'm quite sure I wouldn't have believed it. Yet here we are. ;)


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Claude Lyneis
Re: New FCPX next week?
on Jun 8, 2016 at 12:07:36 am

Moore's law ground to a halt several years ago so the increases to CPU speed are must slower. Of course the industry has some tricks, but doubling processor speed every 18 to 24 months has gone down the drain. I am thinking maybe going to 4k will be a reason to retire my mid 11 27 inch, but I am not sure 4 k is worth the trouble yet.


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Herb Sevush
Re: New FCPX next week?
on Jun 7, 2016 at 8:26:47 pm

[Bill Davis] "If you had told me when I bought my very expensive "cheese grater" Mac Pro - that in a very few years That system would be a bit of a relic and I'd be making tremendously more complex and vastly higher quality videos on my laptop - I'm not sure I'd have believed it"

There is a reason that workstation owners want upgradable design - far from a relic, my upgraded cheese grater probably exceeds your laptop in both GPU and CPU capabilities. This has little effect on the quality of your videos and I certainly can't edit while flying between towns. However I can keep leveraging my original (2012) purchase for another few years. Can the same be said of the Trashcan?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Darren Roark
Re: New FCPX next week?
on Jun 7, 2016 at 5:48:23 pm

[Walter Soyka] "Wouldn't it be really cool is if Apple could innovate some way to allow these GPUs to interface [link] with their professional computers, so GPU-loving software could take advantage of these advances in technology?"

It's already possible to do this with an AKiTiO expansion chassis and dubious drivers. (hack) Is it officially supported? No. Does it take a 20% performance hit in TBolt 2? Yes.

Fingers crossed that it's supported by the time Thunderbolt 3 arrives. It doesn't seem too difficult to do so I'm guessing/hoping it's in the cards.


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Walter Soyka
Re: New FCPX next week?
on Jun 7, 2016 at 6:39:23 pm
Last Edited By Walter Soyka on Jun 7, 2016 at 6:46:53 pm

[Darren Roark] "It's already possible to do this with an AKiTiO expansion chassis and dubious drivers... Fingers crossed that it's supported by the time Thunderbolt 3 arrives. I'm guessing/hoping it's in the cards."

Funny you should say "cards." If Apple could integrate some kind of a "slot" in their pro computers that accepted some kind of industry-standard "card" format for GPUs, why, imagine the possibilities for those GPU-enabled applications!

Don't mind me, Darren, I'm feeling a little feisty today.


[Bill Davis] "It caused me to imagine such wide pipes that components like the CPU and GPU could conceivably sit in replaceable boxes exterior to "the computer" rather than soldered directly onto a PC Board. "

I get the appeal of a modular system like this. But CPUs and GPUs aren't soldered on (although Apple might consider it), and while this is a nice idea for future computers, replaceable/upgradable/modular processing and graphics is a solved problem with standard sockets and PCIe slots today.

Internet pipes are widening, too, so there will be a real question of how much compute power is the right amount of compute power to actually own. I'm obviously a champion for sizzle-core workstations, but I'm also a very happy cloud render customer.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Oliver Peters
Re: New FCPX next week?
on Jun 7, 2016 at 7:54:58 pm
Last Edited By Oliver Peters on Jun 7, 2016 at 7:55:51 pm

FWIW - Apple lists a number of hardware engineering job openings in Austin and Orlando.

Austin is where the nMP is built. The Orlando office is rumored to be a GPU development branch. It's possible that the next iteration of iMacs and/or nMPs would have Apple-designed GPUs and maybe even CPUs. If so, that development doesn't come fast, so could be a reason why we aren't seeing new machines, yet. That could also tie into the talk of a GPU-enabled display. Naturally, all wild speculation at this point.

Of course, if they are working on self-driving cars, maybe they are also working on Siri-powered Roombas! :)

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Charlie Austin
Re: New FCPX next week?
on Jun 7, 2016 at 11:47:31 pm

[Oliver Peters] "maybe they are also working on Siri-powered Roombas! :)"

Wait! Do you know something specific about that, or are you just spreading rumors?!? Because i want one! :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Andrew Kimery
Re: New FCPX next week?
on Jun 7, 2016 at 11:56:29 pm

[Charlie Austin] "Wait! Do you know something specific about that, or are you just spreading rumors?!? Because i want one! :-)"

Me: "Hey, Siri-Roomba, I just spilled a bunch of Cheerios in the kitchen."
Siri Roomba: "Thanks, I'll get right on that!"


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Oliver Peters
Re: New FCPX next week?
on Jun 8, 2016 at 12:03:23 am

[Andrew Kimery] "Siri Roomba: "Thanks, I'll get right on that!""

Then the following year after some AI-learning: "Hey dummy - clean it up yourself!"

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Andrew Kimery
Re: New FCPX next week?
on Jun 8, 2016 at 12:11:43 am

[Oliver Peters] "Then the following year after some AI-learning: "Hey dummy - clean it up yourself!""

Me: "See how you like life without your battery charger..."
Siri Roomba: "You wouldn't dare!"
Me: "Just watch me."
Siri-Washer and Dryer: "If you want clean undies you better put Siri-Roomba's charger back on the floor"
Me: "What?"
Siri-Fridge: "It would be a shame if all this food went bad..."
Me: "Stay out of this Siri-Fridge. I'm so gonna kick you all off the WiFi if you keep this up."
iPhone: "I'll just make a local WiFi hot spot."
Me: "Son of a...!"

And the 'connected house' revolt begins...


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Charlie Austin
Re: New FCPX next week?
on Jun 8, 2016 at 12:36:09 am

[Andrew Kimery] "And the 'connected house' revolt begins...
"


I believe this is appropriate here... :-) internetofs*it on twitter

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Andrew Kimery
Re: New FCPX next week?
on Jun 8, 2016 at 2:06:12 am

[Charlie Austin] "I believe this is appropriate here... :-) internetofs*it on twitter"

LOL, perfect!


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Darren Roark
Re: New FCPX next week?
on Jun 8, 2016 at 12:01:28 am
Last Edited By Darren Roark on Jun 8, 2016 at 12:06:56 am

[Charlie Austin] "[Oliver Peters] "maybe they are also working on Siri-powered Roombas! :)"

Wait! Do you know something specific about that, or are you just spreading rumors?!? Because i want one! :-)"


"Hey Siroombaâ„¢, please take my cat over there please"







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Andrew Kimery
Re: New FCPX next week?
on Jun 8, 2016 at 12:04:16 am

[Oliver Peters] "Austin is where the nMP is built. The Orlando office is rumored to be a GPU development branch. It's possible that the next iteration of iMacs and/or nMPs would have Apple-designed GPUs and maybe even CPUs."

Hopefully that's just more people to make Apple's custom boards using AMD or Nvidia chips (maybe do a better job to keep them from melting? ;) ) as opposed to Apple designing it's own GPU from the ground up.

[Darren Roark] "Ultimately my hope is they stick with this slot for the next round and sell updated GPUs as an upgrade, or at least make cards specifically for the 2013. The SSD, RAM, and CPU can be swapped out, they just don't sell the GPUs yet. (big problem)"

I don't think people will be willing to pay what it would cost to buy a customer made graphics card for a such a low-volume machine like the nMP. I mean, Mac versions of off the shelf video cards were always much more expensive than their PC counterparts so for a custom design, like the nMP requires, I'd just guess and say the retail price would be 2-3x higher than the comparable, off-the-shelf counterpart.


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Darren Roark
Re: New FCPX next week?
on Jun 8, 2016 at 12:22:33 am

[Andrew Kimery] "I don't think people will be willing to pay what it would cost to buy a customer made graphics card for a such a low-volume machine like the nMP. "

If I got significantly more performance out of mine I would buy two.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: New FCPX next week?
on Jun 8, 2016 at 2:51:10 am

[Darren Roark] "If I got significantly more performance out of mine I would buy two."

Out of curiosity, what kind of price/performance ratio are you thinking about? For example, if the replacement cost for a pair of new GPUS was, say, $4000 what kind of performance increase for GPU-centric tasks would you be okay with? 20%? 50%?


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Darren Roark
Re: New FCPX next week?
on Jun 8, 2016 at 3:19:31 am
Last Edited By Darren Roark on Jun 8, 2016 at 3:21:08 am

[Andrew Kimery] "if the replacement cost for a pair of new GPUS was, say, $4000 what kind of performance increase for GPU-centric tasks would you be okay with? 20%? 50%?"

That would be well into stay happy with what I have or new computer territory.

If the base model of the Mac Pro is $3K and the D700s only add another $1K to the price, it's hard to say what percent of the Mac Pro price the the base D300s are, my guess is it's under $1K.

If the pair of 'future equivalent' of the D700s are on the very high side cost $2K for the pair and I could transcode Red footage to ProRes proxy 40% faster than I can now which is realtime without a Red Rocket I would consider it.

The Rocket is still nearly as much as a top end new(ish) Mac Pro. I'd rather just get another Mac Pro at that point.

The 7950s are really great cards for the 2012> Mac Pros for $500 each and do pretty well against the D700s and beat the D500s for many FCP X tasks so who can really tell. It seems that the GPUs are finally aren't too badly overpriced.


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Walter Soyka
Re: New FCPX next week?
on Jun 8, 2016 at 2:26:27 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "Out of curiosity, what kind of price/performance ratio are you thinking about? For example, if the replacement cost for a pair of new GPUS was, say, $4000 what kind of performance increase for GPU-centric tasks would you be okay with? 20%? 50%?"

Not to belabor the point, but looking at a GTX 1080 with 9 teraflops versus a dual-D700 combined for 7 teraflops, $600 for a single card would buy you a 29% increase in compute power, and $1200 for two would buy you a 157% increase in compute power. (As some benchmarks come out, maybe we can relate those more specifically to image processing tasks.)

Out of curiousity, what kinds of GPU-related tasks are you guys generally getting bogged down with?

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Darren Roark
Re: New FCPX next week?
on Jun 8, 2016 at 5:05:17 pm

[Walter Soyka] "Out of curiousity, what kinds of GPU-related tasks are you guys generally getting bogged down with?"

In the day to day editing, not much even editing Red RAW footage. It's the transcoding of the Red footage to proxy on features that is the bottleneck, but it's still at least realtime depending on the camera with the D700s.

When it's a big rush I rent a Red Rocket card.

The numbers on these new cards look awesome on paper, makes me tempted to rebuild a cMP for myself to transcode dailies.


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Darren Roark
Re: New FCPX next week?
on Jun 7, 2016 at 10:50:58 pm

[Walter Soyka] "Don't mind me, Darren, I'm feeling a little feisty today."

I thought that's what this place was for! ;)

What I was told by an AMD engineer was "We make the chips, and then Apple takes them and we don't see them again until they are announced as a product. (That was both telling yet raises more questions.)

The 2013 Mac Pro so far a bigger SSD can be swapped as well as faster CPU and RAM. Yes, no internal HD slots or other internal expansion, they didn't leave room, but the bare system itself can be upgraded, they just don't offer parts. (Yep, big problem)

Ultimately my hope is they stick with this slot for the next round and sell updated GPUs as an upgrade, or at least make cards specifically for the 2013. The SSD, RAM, and CPU can be swapped out, they just don't sell the GPUs yet. (big problem)

I'm wondering if they decided to limit more than 2 GPUs in Yosemite (And Mavericks?) so that there wouldn't be a zillion "I told you so" articles that TB2 wasn't up to snuff to the then current PCIe slots.

The performance people are getting with Mac Minis hooked up to a GPU in the hacked expansion box are impressive.

If the rumors are true that the rumored Mac Pro has five T-Bolt 3 busses (10X ports of USB 3.1 and Tbolt3) then it could be possible they would support this again in 10.12. (hoping)

My hope was the 2012 'cheese grater' was going to have Thunderbolt and USB 3.0 built in as a swan song, it didn't happen. I have helped a few friends turn 2009 MPs into computers that leave my maxed out trash can in the dust which shows there could be a long life ahead of the current trash can.

One can hope.


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Walter Soyka
Re: New FCPX next week?
on Jun 8, 2016 at 11:29:11 am

[Darren Roark] "The 2013 Mac Pro so far a bigger SSD can be swapped as well as faster CPU and RAM. Yes, no internal HD slots or other internal expansion, they didn't leave room, but the bare system itself can be upgraded, they just don't offer parts. (Yep, big problem) Ultimately my hope is they stick with this slot for the next round and sell updated GPUs as an upgrade, or at least make cards specifically for the 2013. The SSD, RAM, and CPU can be swapped out, they just don't sell the GPUs yet. (big problem)"

We have four nMPs. Is there a specific big SSD replacement you recommend? We've maxed RAM and put in 1TB Samsung SSDs in most of them. We tried the 2TB Aura upgrade, but we had some reliability issues, and it appears to the system as a RAID and cannot be Boot Camped.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Darren Roark
Re: New FCPX next week?
on Jun 8, 2016 at 4:47:01 pm

https://eshop.macsales.com/tech_center/index.cfm?page=/manuals/item/owc-aur...

I saw on their tweetings they wrote a driver for it. I can't say that I recommend the OWC Auras as I haven't been able to test one. The reviews were a mixed bag initially but they seem to have improved.

I recommend the newer model 1TB Samsung drives which I see online, and to clarify the SSD is user replaceable in the manual. I didn't mean to insinuate there were readily available drives everywhere just that it's possible.

I'm interested in testing out the new NVIDIA card with a Tbolt3 machine in a chassis. That is with the if's , will there be driver for it, will there be a compatible Tbolt3 chassis, etc.

The ifs...


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Walter Soyka
Re: New FCPX next week?
on Jun 8, 2016 at 4:49:39 pm

[Darren Roark] "I saw on their tweetings they wrote a driver for it. I can't say that I recommend the OWC Auras as I haven't been able to test one. The reviews were a mixed bag initially but they seem to have improved. "

Thanks! Perhaps they're worth another look.


[Darren Roark] "I recommend the newer model 1TB Samsung drives which I see online, and to clarify the SSD is user replaceable in the manual. I didn't mean to insinuate there were readily available drives everywhere just that it's possible. "

Those are what we're running now. I was wondering if there was a denser, non-RAID 2TB stick available anywhere yet, but I haven't seen them yet.

Thanks again for the detailed response.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


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Andrew Kimery
Re: New FCPX next week?
on Jun 7, 2016 at 3:35:23 am

Bummer if there is no new hardware mentioned. If it's true I guess it will be Sept/Oct before we hear anything (if we hear anything).


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