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NAB, what would like to see?

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David Mathis
NAB, what would like to see?
on Mar 29, 2016 at 8:02:14 pm

I know, just another couple of weeks or so. Waiting can be so traumatic. LOL

I am hoping to see a role based mixer in FCP X in addition to decompose compound clips in place. Would also love the option to do audio or video only transitions. I know there are ways around it but sometimes feels not so efficient.
Just a minor beef of mine.

Also hoping to see integration between Resolve and Fusion perhaps combine the two.

I cannot think of anything else at the moment. Wait a minute. Perhaps a mind meld based NLE where I think about the edits with FCP X making them. No longer would need a mouse or keyboard.


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Herb Sevush
Re: NAB, what would like to see?
on Mar 29, 2016 at 8:06:53 pm

[David Mathis] " Perhaps a mind meld based NLE where I think about the edits with FCP X making them. No longer would need a mouse or keyboard."

Beware of "monsters from the id."







Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Bob Zelin
Re: NAB, what would like to see?
on Mar 29, 2016 at 9:15:31 pm

I would like to see Bill Davis naked -

because he constantly promotes -
"Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content."


which means that his main agenda is to make Elementary School and High School students proficient in editing, so that this entire forum becomes unemployed, while he thrives.

In the stone age, people had professions of "Word Processors" - people that did data entry with products like Wang Word Processors.
The day that video editing is as common as word processing (or writing a story with a pen and paper), ALL of our careers are over.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


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Mark Raudonis
Re: NAB, what would like to see?
on Mar 29, 2016 at 9:29:46 pm

[Bob Zelin] "The day that video editing is as common as word processing (or writing a story with a pen and paper), ALL of our careers are over. "

Bob,

You better start checking your 401K! That day is here. Now! In 4K!!!

Of course I'd argue that all the word processors in the world did NOT create better authors. To be a novelist is still a very rewarding career... if you achieve "star status". Same thing applies to our world. There will always be room and reward for the "stars". Everyone else fights for scale.

Just my thoughts.

Mark



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Andrew Kimery
Re: NAB, what would like to see?
on Mar 29, 2016 at 10:23:10 pm

I'm still waiting for the restaurant industry to cease to exist since individuals have been cooking for the past few million years...


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Gary Huff
Re: NAB, what would like to see?
on Mar 29, 2016 at 10:37:13 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "I'm still waiting for the restaurant industry to cease to exist since individuals have been cooking for the past few million years..."

Poor analogy because restaurants provide "convenience", and also because eating has a nearly perfect "audience" as it were, versus editing. Something tells me the difference in numbers between people who need video and people who need to eat is quite astounding.


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Glenn Grant
Re: NAB, what would like to see?
on Mar 29, 2016 at 11:59:23 pm

I think the analogy works as well as word processor. Data entry or word processor was just a key pusher, a learned skill but it doesn't require talent or artistic expression.

If all you do is push buttons and don't add some level of creativity and expertise then, yes, a high school kid can do your job.

A fast food joint is a matter of convince, a fine restaurant is an experience. And editing will be the same. Some will edit on their iMac or iPad, some will go to Craig's List to find some one cheap to edit, and other's will still want and need the expertise and creativity of a professional.

There maybe more editors out there now, but there is even more content.


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Bob Zelin
Re: NAB, what would like to see?
on Mar 30, 2016 at 12:21:35 am

this is all my stupid opinion.
I am from a background of linear editing, and was an early adaptor of AVID, which all the "professional" editors thought was a joke.

With that mindset - FCP-X day 1 was a joke. Which is the very reason for this forum (the debate). FCP-X is no longer a joke. But unlike all the PROFESSIONAL editors on this forum (including Bill Davis)- it is my personal opinion that Apple's ONLY goal is to make editing a common place task, no different than printing out a nice letter, or printing out your business cards, or Microsoft's vision (and Lotus's vision) of allowing anyone to do word processing and a simple spreadsheet. But of course, this affects what WE do for a living, because for many of "us" - making a wedding video, or a "happy face" corporate video - well, those days are numbered. And I personally cannot forget Apple's introduction of the HD iPhone, and doing the Burberry corporate video with 14 iPhones at 720p - whose message (in my opinion) was that "you don't need those idiots on Creative Cow - you can tell your staff to whip out those iPhones, and make your own, very professional corporate video".

So my whining here is to say that we are a target of this concept, and professionals like Bill Davis are promoting their careers on "Elementary Schools" learning FCP-X so even the 10 year old can produce a lovely video that would be GOOD ENOUGH for most applications, except for possibly major feature films and network television shows. This is a very threatening concept.

I see on YouTube the countless videos (because I am interested in music) of the AMAZING talents of 8 - 12 year old guitarists, drummers and pianists that are as good as any professional. Does this mean that Adele, or others don't make a living ? No - but for the VAST MAJORITY (this means you - Creative Cow reader) - there is NO WAY you are going to make a living as a musician, unless you are lucky, or are willing to take 50 bucks a night with your band playing the local tavern. And the video "professionals" will earn even less, as "my daughter got an A in video production, because she took Bill Davis' course, and she is amazing". And your career is OVER. Because Warner Brothers is not hiring you for their next show. Just like Atlantic Records is not hiring you for their next major album release.

The commodity of the video business is approaching - no different than it happened to the print business, and music business, and word processing business. This will apply to all video applications, including streaming (you are a streaming professional ? My son has his own YouTube channel, and he has 200,000 subscribers and he is 12 years old). That's the future. And I blame Bill Davis for all of this !!!!!!

Bob Zelin
ps - I have several "professional" photographers as clients. Their work is very impressive (top modeling agencies). When I suggest that they spend under $1000 for a new drive chassis to protect all their work, they say "are you kidding, I don't have that kind of money".
This is the hard reality of what is happening to our business.

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


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Andrew Kimery
Re: NAB, what would like to see?
on Mar 30, 2016 at 6:27:28 am

[Gary Huff] "Poor analogy because restaurants provide "convenience","

So does pretty much every job/profession though. If the directors, producers, etc., I work with had the time, inclination and/or desire to edit their own projects they most certainly could, the tools are pretty cheap these days, but they don't so they hire editors. If I had the time, inclination, and/or desire to do my own taxes I would but I don't so I pay a pro to do them for me.

The Chicken Little Work Theory of Doom™ seems to be that once both the basic skills and the basic tools to do a job become 'common' then the opportunities to get paid to do that kind of work just go *poof* overnight but that's just not the case. Change will happen and disruption will happen but that's just the nature of the beast. Some revenue avenues will dry up, others will still exist but maybe not in the same way and new ones will spring up places they didn't used to be.

Maybe I sound unsympathetic to the impending apocalypse but working in LA is a non-stop grind so the constant hustle and fear that I'll never work again isn't part of a possible, dystopian future, it's my daily existence. ;) Even staff jobs only provide a false sense of security because you never know when your entire department is going to get laid off (like, say, the week before Christmas without any warning whatsoever).

With regards to talented young people... I'm not really worried about them for a few reasons. First, it's motivation to not get complacent. Second, if a 20yr old can one up me for a gig then I'm in the working the wrong gigs and/or I've become complacent. Third, talent, at least in my neck of the woods, only gets you so far. Tons of talented people flock to LA or NY to vie for a tiny number of gigs. Tiny number of jobs. In my experience the people that 'make it' are the most determined, not the most talented. 5-10yrs struggling in LA seems to be the breaking for a lot of people. They'll either find a cushy 9-5 job, leave industry or leave LA. Every one that does that is one less competitor I have to worry about.


[Bob Zelin] "But unlike all the PROFESSIONAL editors on this forum (including Bill Davis)- it is my personal opinion that Apple's ONLY goal is to make editing a common place task"

Won't get any disagreement from me. Hopefully I don't incur anyone's wrath, but I think it was pretty obviously that Apple's primary target out of the gate with X was the 'fat middle' where you have people that don't necessarily edit all day, everyday but they still edit frequently. There are a lot more of those types of people than full time editors.


[Bob Zelin] "The commodity of the video business is approaching - no different than it happened to the print business, and music business, and word processing business. This will apply to all video applications, including streaming (you are a streaming professional ? My son has his own YouTube channel, and he has 200,000 subscribers and he is 12 years old). That's the future. And I blame Bill Davis for all of this !!!!!!"

I personally like the "adapt or die!" Bob Zelin more than the "we're all gonna die!" Bob Zelin. ;)


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Gary Huff
Re: NAB, what would like to see?
on Mar 30, 2016 at 12:57:58 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "So does pretty much every job/profession though."

Can you build a house from blueprints? Design a car? Lay pipeline? Improve the mixture for asphalt? Write a musical score?

There are plenty of jobs that not just anyone can do.

[Andrew Kimery] "If I had the time, inclination, and/or desire to do my own taxes I would but I don't so I pay a pro to do them for me."

Your personal taxes, yes. Could you be the accountant for a large corporation? Probably not. Plus, I could do my own taxes, but an accountant looks more official since I am 1099 and take a load of deductions. It's more of a consideration as to whether I can do it or not. Plus, I want someone who lives and breathes the tax code like I do for production gear. Life's too short to do that for more than 1-2 things.

[Andrew Kimery] "The Chicken Little Work Theory of Doom™ seems to be that once both the basic skills and the basic tools to do a job become 'common' then the opportunities to get paid to do that kind of work just go *poof* overnight but that's just not the case."

They won't go "poof". They will be severely constricted to the point where you almost will literally have to have a career handed off to you from the person before who is retiring.

[Andrew Kimery] "Change will happen and disruption will happen but that's just the nature of the beast."

On this I agree...it will happen regardless, but it pays to be aware and have a backup plan.

[Andrew Kimery] " Some revenue avenues will dry up, others will still exist but maybe not in the same way and new ones will spring up places they didn't used to be."

I don't think new ones will spring up. Think about VR. That's really a dead end because, well, what exactly can you do? In VR, there are no angles, hardly any lighting (because you can turn around and see it), and what's the point of setting up a VR shot where there is a "stage" in a certain angle, and if you turn around you break the spell because, well, that's how they're doing it! And the same goes for the production of it. It requires skill not, but not for long. Hell, there's an app that will automatically stitch all the angles together for you. And when you're in VR there's no cutting involved, maybe motion graphics but that remains to be seen.

There is already too much content and we're gearing up for a crash, just like the video game industry in 1983. Only difference is that we've not quite had this before because the barrier was too high and so content could survive. And I don't foresee a rebound because that industry was just getting started and ours its on its way to a long plateau.

[Andrew Kimery] "With regards to talented young people... I'm not really worried about them for a few reasons. First, it's motivation to not get complacent."

Agreed.

[Andrew Kimery] "Second, if a 20yr old can one up me for a gig then I'm in the working the wrong gigs and/or I've become complacent."

On this I would say, it's only as soon as clients realize they can live with "good enough" over higher costs.

[Andrew Kimery] "They'll either find a cushy 9-5 job, leave industry or leave LA. Every one that does that is one less competitor I have to worry about."

But there are more coming. That's the sound of thousands of stampeding feet you hear, each with a MacBook and a copy of X. Even Leonidas eventually was overwhelmed.

[Andrew Kimery] "more than the "we're all gonna die!" Bob Zelin. ;)"

I think it's better to know when it's over than to spend your time adapting until the last penny is gone.


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Scott Witthaus
Re: NAB, what would like to see?
on Mar 30, 2016 at 11:48:24 am

[Bob Zelin] "So my whining here is to say that we are a target of this concept, and professionals like Bill Davis are promoting their careers on "Elementary Schools" learning FCP-X so even the 10 year old can produce a lovely video that would be GOOD ENOUGH for most applications, except for possibly major feature films and network television shows. This is a very threatening concept. "

Here is some cheese with that whine: I think I heard the same thing when EMC and Avid came out, but that time it was from linear editors sitting in $750k suites. Then I heard it again when FCP Legacy got traction from Avid editors sitting in their $75k suites, and now we hear it again. The trick is just be better at it. There are more folks out there now who won't accept "good enough" for their work than back the 90's. Find them and be so damn good you get the work at rate. Just be better. Cost of the gear makes no difference nor does the age of the editor. If one of Bill's students is a better cutter than I am, she/he should get the good work over me. Pretty simple.

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: NAB, what would like to see?
on Mar 30, 2016 at 2:26:40 pm

Here's a bit of broad perspective on it - at least good for a chuckle:

My granddad, viewing earth's worn cogs,
Said things were going to the dogs;
His granddad in his house of logs,
Said things were going to the dogs;
His granddad in the Flemish bogs.
Said things were going to the dogs;
His granddad in his old skin togs,
Said things were going to the dogs;
There's one thing that I have to state –
The dogs have had a good long wait.

- anon.

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: NAB, what would like to see?
on Mar 31, 2016 at 12:22:51 am

[Bob Zelin] " it is my personal opinion that Apple's ONLY goal is to make editing a common place task"

I think that's only part of the story. Apple could simply do that with iMovie or a modified version of that. FCPX is designed for more advanced users, but of a design that's quintessential Apple. When Apple uses the term "pro" (i.e. Logic Pro X, MacBook Pro, iPad Pro) they really don't mean "for professionals". What they mean is that it's a beefier product for advanced users who want something more. If that aligns with professionals, then that's gravy.

[Bob Zelin] "I see on YouTube the countless videos (because I am interested in music) of the AMAZING talents of 8 - 12 year old guitarists, drummers and pianists that are as good as any professional."

That's an imperfect analogy when it comes to professional video. And maybe not even accurate. Those young musicians, grow up to aspire to own the same gear as the high end. Guitarists buy custom guitars, amps, and pedals. The hip-hop crowd moved from cheap electronic gear to buying SSL consoles and vintage analog 24-tracks.

In the case of videographers, the new entrants move from iPhones and cheap cameras, to more "pro" gear - Canon C300s, REDs, BMD URSAs, plus glass, lighting, and grip gear. Yes, those tools are cheaper than they were a few decades ago, but they are also better. They buy gear that never existed before, like drones, hybrid monitor/recorders, and more. Plus they buy more of it, like 2 cameras instead of 1.

[Bob Zelin] "I have several "professional" photographers as clients. Their work is very impressive (top modeling agencies). When I suggest that they spend under $1000 for a new drive chassis to protect all their work, they say "are you kidding, I don't have that kind of money"

Maybe they are more willing to spend it on an iMac and a Promise Pegasus or a cloud back-up service than your proposed system. It could be that's only the story they are telling you. :)

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Tim Wilson
Re: NAB, what would like to see?
on Mar 30, 2016 at 4:44:02 am

[Glenn Grant] "There maybe more editors out there now, but there is even more content.
"


I saw a quote from the head of FX during the upfronts: there are 412 scripted series this season. He hasn't been tracking unscripted, but he's panicked about scripted because he feels like all this content is pushing quality shows off the air before they have a chance to draw an audience.

My immediate reactions:

-- You've got some nerve, buddy, because you're one of the guys who spearheaded the move of quality dramas further down the channel lineup.

-- If you think shows are being yanked too quickly, stop fgjking yanking them so quickly.

-- You can't honestly expect me to take you seriously when you're having to create new channels because you're creating too much content for one channel to contain.

-- You're an idiot. LOL

Back in the 90s, when we said that cable would lead to more programming, it wasn't happening. New cable channels mostly meant more places for reruns to air.

It's happening now. Not necessarily the case that every editor who wants to find work will find it, of course, but the explosion of opportunity that we predicted 20 years ago is in fact coming to pass.

I encourage you to spend some time at NAB looking away from content creation tools, and spend some time looking at the content. You typically see more of it being talked about in panels and keynotes, but if you're feeling dour about the industry's prospects, I submit that it's because you haven't grasped the scope of what's happening out there.

Goodness knows I want to see all of our vendor partners make a gazillion dollars from their spectacular offerings at the show, but you can get a sorely warped view of the world if all you do is spend time in the South Hall.

It's a big ol' world, and a big ol' show. I hope more of you get to see more of it.


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Bill Davis
Re: NAB, what would like to see?
on Mar 30, 2016 at 9:41:55 am

[Bob Zelin] "I would like to see Bill Davis naked -
"


No you wouldn't.

The cost of the therapy afterwards would be largely prohibitive.

SEN is being retired in two weeks. Was a great run since the day I dreamed it up on an airplane ride home from a Videomaker lecture in Cleveland 15 years ago after about the 20th time a teacher attendee asked me how they could get content to use for their high school classes to practice editing. The SEN content is being re-purposes as we speak into something new and vaguely FCP X related.

Time marches on.

; )

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Gary Huff
Re: NAB, what would like to see?
on Mar 30, 2016 at 12:41:46 pm

[Bill Davis] "The SEN content is being re-purposes as we speak into something new and vaguely FCP X related."

SENoFCPX.


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Andy Field
Re: NAB, what would like to see?
on Mar 30, 2016 at 9:45:13 pm

I love the dinosaur debate -- I taught myself FCP 1 at ABC News when the union editors were negotiating themselves out of a career - I was a producer/correspondent - (they gave up everything computer based because they felt they only dealt with the heavy metal equipment -- that didn't work well for them)

I saw the future was producer editors - photographer editors -- no one person does one job

When i began my own production company i networked with a group of like minded pros that once did just one job at the network level -- we're all still working and generating projects -- the folks who insisted they'll stay "specialized" for the most part had to find other careers

As for kids being able to edit circles around us with FCP X -- call me when that happens -- there's been a dozen times that an in house corporate video client said - "we're good - we have someone editing on FCP X now" ..and then came back after the botched, mediocre, lousy edit and said "can you fix this?" It cost them twice as much than if they'd just let a professional do it once.

It isn't the NLE - its the experience and creativity of the person on the keyboard -- and you better stay 3 steps ahead of the game, teach yourself new skills (Motion graphics for someone else? Nope - start learning) Those are the rare pros that don't seem to ever want for work.

Andy Field
FieldVision Productions
N. Bethesda, Maryland 20852


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Oliver Peters
Re: NAB, what would like to see?
on Mar 31, 2016 at 12:24:01 am

Of course, for a more serious look:

http://www.creativeplanetnetwork.com/news/shoot/2016-nab-show-preview-produ...

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Gary Huff
Re: NAB, what would like to see?
on Mar 31, 2016 at 1:54:33 pm
Last Edited By Gary Huff on Mar 31, 2016 at 1:51:43 pm

[Andy Field] "It cost them twice as much than if they'd just let a professional do it once."

And? Did they fire that person or simply take your edit and go back to him and say, "Make it look more like this next time?"


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Andy Field
Re: NAB, what would like to see?
on Apr 2, 2016 at 4:12:28 pm

They had us redo it - and even reshoot parts of it - and never used the inhouse guy again

Andy Field
FieldVision Productions
N. Bethesda, Maryland 20852


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: NAB, what would like to see?
on Mar 31, 2016 at 2:00:27 pm

All I want from NAB is magic beans.









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Mark Suszko
Re: NAB, what would like to see?
on Mar 31, 2016 at 7:27:01 pm

You guys are arguing about two separate tracks: A purely technical "machine operator" track, and the content creation track. And yes, if all you want to be is the guy that pushes the buttons, the downwards pressure on salaries for those skill sets will no doubt continue, and yes, younger and younger competitors enter the scene daily. Apple and the other NLE makers have spent the last 2 decades trying to eliminate the of button-pusher as some kind of priest or intermediary between what the content creator wants, and what the technology can deliver.

But fewer of these button-pushers are really content creators. There is and will always be a market for the idea people, the people with a creative vision, and with at least a passing familiarity with the current technology, and the ability to work with experts in certain areas. There is never going to be a "button" on your keyboard for "Generate a unique marketing concept in a visual framework relating to a key audience demographic".

Really, the content creation; writing, producing, directing, Editorial, is the heart of the business. The part that is immortal and ever-renewing.


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michael jacobson
Re: NAB, what would like to see?
on Apr 21, 2016 at 5:48:27 pm

I, too, am a big fan of Blackmagic Design’s cameras. I love my BMPCC and would be happy if they updated it to even a 2.5K sensor to have the flexibility and sharpness for 1080 projects. And definitely higher frame rate options. And I wouldn’t mind if they needed to use a larger body to accommodate LP-E6 batteries and it wasn’t truly pocket size anymore, but still better ergonomics than their original cinema cameras.


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