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in the continuing series of things read on art of the guillotine..

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Aindreas Gallagher
in the continuing series of things read on art of the guillotine..
on Apr 22, 2011 at 11:14:11 pm

http://www.thebearwrestler.com/essays/2011/4/21/fcpx-a-love-letter-to-randy...

to precis the piece - everyone wishes for the best, and randy is a patently, ferociously smart guy, but; if they've dropped FCP based editors, their workflows and all the post houses formed around the studio architecture - that real shared financial livelihood - into the fire with a reboot that will need to gestate for 18-24 months for any kind of tool maturity.. well sure.. so then to june and apple's grand, glorious reveal.

man - It just all feels weirdly and unnecessarily overheated this. They have produced an updated piece of software for a professional, financially invested community of editors: the reveal was crazily dramatic and the portentous silence thereafter, with ten weeks to go, is simply ludicrous.
Is there a brute financial imperative in this kind of ridiculous behaviour?

http://www.ogallchoir.net
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Craig Seeman
Re: in the continuing series of things read on art of the guillotine..
on Apr 22, 2011 at 11:41:22 pm

Apple has found a way to thin out the herd at last. All the lunatics who claim to be editors are being exposed for their madness, to have their post houses and edit rooms converted to the padded rooms at the funny farm.

Us sane folks will be learning FCPX and earning a living with all the lunatics driven out of the business. It will be Apple's post apocalyptic editors world.

Someone will do a documentary on all this craziness from Supermeet to June (From Here to Eternity) and they'll have a cult classic on their hands. And they'll cut it all on iMovie.

[Aindreas Gallagher] "Is there a brute financial imperative in this kind of ridiculous behaviour?"

... from the Post community, no.
... from Apple, yes. They know exactly what they're doing.



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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: in the continuing series of things read on art of the guillotine..
on Apr 22, 2011 at 11:57:05 pm

hey,

ok sure look -
A: I'm regurgitating the post I linked to there for the top.
B: I think this could have been handled better - we're left - all of us - in a swamp of unanswered questions: from an official presentation at the premier meet where apple chose not to broach the menu system even - couldn't we have even seen the file save dialog box?
I mean honestly, what is this; a striptease we pay for?

http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Craig Seeman
Re: in the continuing series of things read on art of the guillotine..
on Apr 23, 2011 at 12:18:42 am

It definitely could have been handled better. I mentioned how I thought Apple should have handled elsewhere in my sea of posts.

See this
http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/335/860

They've never attempted anything like this before and as a marketing event it may be the Newton or the Cube but the end result will be the iPad and the MacMini.

I don't consider a marketing faux pas the same as a product faux pas though. I just think they didn't know how to manage anticipation leaving the SuperMeet.

Other companies like CMX and Avid (and even Adobe) have made big costly mistakes. This one by Apple just doesn't rank that high up there.

I'll bet after seeing this, the June release event will be much better. I think Apple will have learned a few things here.



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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: in the continuing series of things read on art of the guillotine..
on Apr 23, 2011 at 1:02:31 am

yep. that really was a point you made on store updates - should FCPX become a granular, rapidly evolving product ala the likes of well performing iOS software - then i"m not sure what to say really - that's flat out savagely transformative.

again - I am honestly slightly pissed with the style of reveal, but to the software effort itself: in the context you were speaking of, if as delivered organically and timely by the app store - that could just be something else entirely.
Bar anything else- I am just madly, madly curious. Damn you apple. Sort of.

http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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walter biscardi
Re: in the continuing series of things read on art of the guillotine..
on Apr 23, 2011 at 11:54:51 am

It's clear from the "sneak peek" that Apple is doing their own thing with very limited input from the outside world.

No other way to explain taking a 10 year software brand that has made tremendous inroads in all areas of Post Production and then potentially dropping many of the features used day in and day out by said post production companies.

The "sneak peek" was aimed squarely at small shops, one man bands and those who "ooooooh" and "aaaaaaah" every new thing that Apple shows much like the marketing presentations.

What is completely ludicrous is that NONE of what we're asking is a state or trade secret. We're simply asking if the features that are ALREADY IN FINAL CUT 7 are still in Final Cut Pro X. But apparently Steve Jobs has the answer hidden somewhere because if competitors were to find out about this it would be bad.

This whole consumer based "on a need to know basis" approach to the reveal was and is still asinine.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative Media

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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: in the continuing series of things read on art of the guillotine..
on Apr 23, 2011 at 12:23:01 pm

yes - the fact that they are unwilling to clarify basic issues of concern is beyond irritating. Should the software itself prove to be the sum of all hopes, well great, but this carry on is still really annoying - taking a consumer tease approach with professional software for professional editors is in and of itself just annoying.

I'm going to break into cupertino Apple: that's right - I am going to go in through the window in the night and I am stealing the FCPX manual.
Then I am going to RTFM in an audio blog post or something. And then we will know what the hell is going on.

http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Chris Kenny
Re: in the continuing series of things read on art of the guillotine..
on Apr 23, 2011 at 1:28:36 pm

[walter biscardi] "No other way to explain taking a 10 year software brand that has made tremendous inroads in all areas of Post Production and then potentially dropping many of the features used day in and day out by said post production companies."

While it's possible there are features absent from FCP X, there was nothing presented during the sneak peek that provides any evidence for this. Only discussing major new features is par for the course for product upgrade announcements.

You've decided to play some sort of "What's the worst thing that could be true given on what we know" game, and that, not any actual action on Apple's part, is the primary source of your anxiety about this release.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read What is FCP X’s relationship to iMovie? on our blog.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: in the continuing series of things read on art of the guillotine..
on Apr 23, 2011 at 2:05:08 pm

no - I take your point on there being fear as a factor in the reaction people have been having - but he's not playing the 'what's the worst thing game', he's playing the 'I'm very annoyed with Apple game' - that's a valid game.

http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Chris Kenny
Re: in the continuing series of things read on art of the guillotine..
on Apr 23, 2011 at 2:14:14 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "no - I take your point on there being fear as a factor in the reaction people have been having - but he's not playing the 'what's the worst thing game', he's playing the 'I'm very annoyed with Apple game' - that's a valid game."

But he's very annoyed at Apple, as far as I can tell, primarily because he's talked himself into believing some fairly unreasonable things (e.g. it's plausible that FCP X won't be able to support video I/O cards) and considers it a failing on Apple's part that they haven't released specific information clarifying these points.

As far as I can see, Apple has no particular responsibility to respond to this sort of unreasonable skepticism. It's like saying, in the wake of a new iMac announcement "Hey, maybe these new iMacs don't let you install third-party software anymore", and being upset with Apple for not clarifying that yes, like previous iMacs, and consistent with what any reasonable product sold into that product category would have to support, they do.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read What is FCP X’s relationship to iMovie? on our blog.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: in the continuing series of things read on art of the guillotine..
on Apr 23, 2011 at 2:21:35 pm

I don't think that quite stands up - the iMac comparision - we know this is a complete rewrite, and they omitted any mention of a raft of key features in their.. tease.
As a customer I don't need or want a tease, I need to know what's going on. Apple's approach to this, and the stone walling after the event is increasingly annoying, and altogether inappropriate for a professional customer base.

http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Chris Kenny
Re: in the continuing series of things read on art of the guillotine..
on Apr 23, 2011 at 2:41:41 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "I don't think that quite stands up - the iMac comparision - we know this is a complete rewrite, and they omitted any mention of a raft of key features in their.. tease. "

It is a complete rewrite, but it was presented to a bunch of professional video editors, in a venue intended for video pros, during a presentation that Apple opened by bragging about adoption by broadcast and post facilities.

The idea that Apple then went on to introduce a product lacking basic pro functionality is simply not reasonable, so I don't see why Apple should bother itself with speculation along those lines.

[Aindreas Gallagher] "Apple's approach to this, and the stone walling after the event is increasingly annoying, and altogether inappropriate for a professional customer base."

Look, Apple showed off some new features. At some point in the next couple of months, there's going to be a more comprehensive formal product announcement. "Stonewalling" makes it sound like there's something unusual going on here and that Apple is trying to avoid difficult questions or something, but as far as I can see, they're following standard practice with respect to releasing information about new products.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read What is FCP X’s relationship to iMovie? on our blog.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: in the continuing series of things read on art of the guillotine..
on Apr 23, 2011 at 3:35:17 pm

for my part I'm not satisfied with the way apple have gone about this, the highly selective release of information and the refusal to answer any questions at the event or after. I'm annoyed. Its a ridiculous way to carry on with a professional customer base.

http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Craig Seeman
Re: in the continuing series of things read on art of the guillotine..
on Apr 23, 2011 at 3:50:28 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "for my part I'm not satisfied with the way apple have gone about this, the highly selective release of information and the refusal to answer any questions at the event or after. I'm annoyed. Its a ridiculous way to carry on with a professional customer base."

Actually it's a sane business practice for most software developers.

I've worked with developers and while there are internal timetables, there's a whole host of reasons not to make them public. When you have a complex interlocking Rubik's Cube of a program, you can run into unforeseen stumbling blocks. It may well have been why the were showing an earlier beta at the Supermeet rather than a current one . . . and that's also not uncommon for presentation.

From a developers perspective, the one thing worse than customer uncertainty is promising a delivery date and discovering you're going to be way off and having to make a "negative" announcement or, alternately, just quietly letting the date slip (and the customers will be quite noisy about that) or, worse yet, having to pull a feature entirely after announced because an issue gives it an uncertain future, sometimes so much so it's either back to the drawing board for that feature or just dropping it.



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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: in the continuing series of things read on art of the guillotine..
on Apr 23, 2011 at 3:58:18 pm

I'm not talking about the beta or slipping shipping dates: apple reps, in response to direct questions after the event, refused to confirm *anything at all*
the state of XML, the clip viewer, EDLs, OMF - that is what I find both ridiculous and annoying.
Its not a bloody iphone protoype, its the software we use to make a living.

http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Craig Seeman
Re: in the continuing series of things read on art of the guillotine..
on Apr 23, 2011 at 4:24:18 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "refused to confirm *anything at all*
the state of XML, the clip viewer, EDLs, OMF - that is what I find both ridiculous and annoying.
Its not a bloody iphone protoype, its the software we use to make a living."


As someone who has worked with developers, they have good reason not to confirm things. How things work in their final form may or may not be as they are now.

It's the software Apple sells to make a living as well and there's a lot at stake for them financially. They're not a "mean spirited business" who's goal is to annoy it's user base. They are a business and for good and standard reasons (and they are standard reasons) they will not discuss certain things.

Your desire does not trump their business. In June you will be able to make a sound decision and I suspect Apple has some confidence in the long run about this. In fact, given the changes they seem to be making, they are an extremely confident company. Much more so than Avid or Adobe (personal opinion there).



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Chris Kenny
Re: in the continuing series of things read on art of the guillotine..
on Apr 23, 2011 at 5:54:44 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "I'm not talking about the beta or slipping shipping dates: apple reps, in response to direct questions after the event, refused to confirm *anything at all*
the state of XML, the clip viewer, EDLs, OMF - that is what I find both ridiculous and annoying.
Its not a bloody iphone protoype, its the software we use to make a living."


Come on. You know how this works. The product isn't even formally announced yet. There are significant technical, competitive, PR, and even legal reasons to not let your developers go around handing out arbitrary information about unannounced products.

Really, it seems to me that everyone's complaints could have been addressed if Apple had just waited for a full, formal product announcement. For all that people are claiming that Apple dropped the ball by not releasing enough information, the message they're actually sending is "Don't give any more sneak peeks; if you won't tell us everything, we'd prefer to know nothing at all". Personally, I would rather know something than nothing, I saw this "sneak peek" as an encouraging step toward openness in this market, and I hope Apple is ignoring all of the people complaining about it, because if they're not, their response is going to be to never offer this kind of early preview again.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read What is FCP X’s relationship to iMovie? on our blog.


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Chris Kenny
Re: in the continuing series of things read on art of the guillotine..
on Apr 23, 2011 at 5:32:31 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "for my part I'm not satisfied with the way apple have gone about this, the highly selective release of information and the refusal to answer any questions at the event or after. I'm annoyed. Its a ridiculous way to carry on with a professional customer base."

Virtually all companies are highly selective about what information they release, and companies rarely provide answers to questions posed by random people in Internet forums, especially if they're already planning formal produce announcements that provide such answers (which is almost certainly the case here).

People in this instance appear to be confused and upset by perfectly routine corporate behavior, and are reading all sorts of unlikely things into it.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read What is FCP X’s relationship to iMovie? on our blog.


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Craig Seeman
Re: in the continuing series of things read on art of the guillotine..
on Apr 23, 2011 at 3:48:01 pm

Developers have good reasons not to discuss certain things before they're ready regardless of your annoyance. It is NOT Inappropriate at all.

I've worked with developers and while there are internal timetables, there's a whole host of reasons not to make them public. When you have a complex interlocking Rubik's Cube of a program, you can run into unforeseen stumbling blocks. It may well have been why the were showing an earlier beta at the Supermeet rather than a current one . . . and that's also not uncommon for presentation.

From a developers perspective, the one thing worse than customer uncertainty is promising a delivery date and discovering you're going to be way off and having to make a "negative" announcement or, alternately, just quietly letting the date slip (and the customers will be quite noisy about that) or, worse yet, having to pull a feature entirely after announced because an issue gives it an uncertain future, sometimes so much so it's either back to the drawing board for that feature or just dropping it.



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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: in the continuing series of things read on art of the guillotine..
on Apr 23, 2011 at 3:51:17 pm

I don't get your point - i'm not talking about the development cycle, or the software internal release cycle - I'm talking about the amount and kind of information they've given out and the manner in which they chose to do it.

http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Craig Seeman
Re: in the continuing series of things read on art of the guillotine..
on Apr 23, 2011 at 4:18:28 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "I'm talking about the amount and kind of information they've given out and the manner in which they chose to do it."

Because they can't reveal information until they are certain about those features. If it's not in Release Candidate form or even Gold Master then they rightfully may refrain from comment about certain features.

They disclosed what they felt was comfortable for them to disclose as developers. Probably knowing that the earlier beta they were showing and the later beta they did not show, had matched those features.



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Craig Seeman
Re: in the continuing series of things read on art of the guillotine..
on Apr 23, 2011 at 4:10:06 pm

[Chris Kenny] "But he's very annoyed at Apple, as far as I can tell, primarily because he's talked himself into believing some fairly unreasonable things (e.g. it's plausible that FCP X won't be able to support video I/O cards) and considers it a failing on Apple's part that they haven't released specific information clarifying these points."

Thanks for commenting on that Chris. As if Apple has a responsibility to take risks by breaking sound business practices for a developer in order to assuage irrational fears.

Apple chose not to show or discuss many things. There are many sound reasons to do that from a developers' business perspective. While I can't speak in Apple's case I can say that I speak from first hand experience about this reasons, not speculation.



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Craig Seeman
Re: in the continuing series of things read on art of the guillotine..
on Apr 23, 2011 at 3:58:14 pm

Chris, thanks for being sane. The level of insanity I'm seeing from names I'd think would know better is truly astounding.

Developers don't talk about things for good professional business reasons. I've already posted that. The hysteria is running so deep that it seems people can't even grasp it after I've posted it.

I've talked to enough programers (under NDA for that level of discussion) to know the reason why companies refrain from saying things has NOTHING to do with bad manors or thoughtless business or marketing practices.

They have good reasons to not talk about "standard" things and no amount of complaining will change that. The costs to their business under certain circumstances would be far greater than being silent would be. NDAs have a lot more reasons behind them then simply revealing "secrets" to the competition. There are changes to a development cycle that can happen right up to days before a product is released. One might have to be in Release Candidate Stage to talk and even then things can happen until "Gold Master"



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Simon Ubsdell
Re: in the continuing series of things read on art of the guillotine..
on Apr 23, 2011 at 5:00:30 pm

In between the brutal scepticism of the disgruntled camp, the despair of the headless chickens, and the happy-clappy cheerleading of the Apple optimists, there is surely a likelihood that a) at the very least FCPX won't be a disaster with loads of interesting and innovative stuff to sink our teeth into (especially if you're not already familiar with iMovie, but a good deal else as well that no-one knows anything about), b) there will be lots of thing not right with it on day one which means many of us won't be able to use it until these are addressed, and c) Apple made a pretty lousy fist of their "sneak peak" which is a bit odd for a company so expert in this kind of thing (but then maybe they misjudged their audience somewhat).

Whatever, all this colourful difference of opinion makes for a great forum to follow ;-)

Simon Ubsdell
Director/Editor/Writer
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Craig Seeman
Re: in the continuing series of things read on art of the guillotine..
on Apr 23, 2011 at 5:51:44 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "and c) Apple made a pretty lousy fist of their "sneak peak" which is a bit odd for a company so expert in this kind of thing (but then maybe they misjudged their audience somewhat)."

They've never done a sneak peek for any product before that I know of. Apple's marketing strategy has been changing every since Jobs started responding to emails from the public, as far as I can tell. This is new territory for them.

First was Jobs "awesome." Then was Larry Jordan's "Jaw Dropping." Then Apple shows some awesome jaw dropping features. They've never proceeded like this before that I know of. They've been criticized for complete silence so they take steps over the last year or so to change that and now they get criticized for not saying enough. Rather than seeing this as a company examining and improving the very tightly managed release of information, they're blasted for it by some people. They're making misjudgments but this is not something they've done before.



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Simon Ubsdell
Re: in the continuing series of things read on art of the guillotine..
on Apr 23, 2011 at 6:05:33 pm

Yup, they haven't done it before and they didn't do it terribly well, given they were speaking to a worldwide audience of professional (and not so professional) editors), who had reasons good and less good for expecting it to be better. It's perfectly OK to accept the possibility of this without the sky falling in around you!

Simon Ubsdell
Director/Editor/Writer
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Craig Seeman
Re: in the continuing series of things read on art of the guillotine..
on Apr 23, 2011 at 6:14:53 pm

Apple made some mistakes. The sky is not falling. Unfortunately many people on this forum can't see that.

I can only speculate that Apple assumed (wrongly) that they are not in a position to reveal all. They probably thought it was self evident in "sneak peek" to a User's Group rather than a formal Press Conference for a product announcement.

Apple probably didn't anticipate that they'd actually have to tell people that there is more to come, that they can't talk about certain things at THIS STAGE and there would be a formal product announcement around the time of the release. They might have thought this was COMMON SENSE when talking to people who were PROFESSIONALS in their field, some of whom may have had previous interaction with developers.



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Simon Ubsdell
Re: in the continuing series of things read on art of the guillotine..
on Apr 23, 2011 at 6:28:29 pm

I think they were very naive if they didn't foresee the attention this event would attract and how every detail of it would be pored over by the FCP community - but at the same time I do agree it is unreasonable to expect them to have answered some of the questions that are being asked of them here.

Overall, they'd probably have done better in this case to have kept their powder dry but I can understand the market pressures that made them decide to do it. I can't help feeling that on balance their mistake was to have treated their FCP client base just the same way as they treat the consumer client base - a little too much showbusiness, a little too short on substance. Generally most of us like, and need, facts and figures and details. I hope they learn this presentation lesson for next time.

Simon Ubsdell
Director/Editor/Writer
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Chris Kenny
Re: in the continuing series of things read on art of the guillotine..
on Apr 23, 2011 at 6:56:18 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "I can't help feeling that on balance their mistake was to have treated their FCP client base just the same way as they treat the consumer client base - a little too much showbusiness, a little too short on substance."

I don't see that at all. A consumer product never would have gotten a "sneak peek" in the first place -- they'd have stayed completely silent about it until somewhere between two weeks and about an hour before it was going to ship, and then had a full, formal product announcement. This is what Apple does with consumer products. Virtually the only exceptions are for platform products that developers need to get their hands on before shipment (OS X and iOS releases) and for products where coordination with external companies makes secrecy impossible.

The sneak peek was Apple deciding to treat pros differently, and give them a little preview of what was coming, trusting that this audience could be relied on to understand the limited release for early information in the proper context. That trust was evidently misplaced.

--
Digital Workflow/Colorist, Nice Dissolve.

You should follow me on Twitter here. Or read What is FCP X’s relationship to iMovie? on our blog.


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Simon Ubsdell
Re: in the continuing series of things read on art of the guillotine..
on Apr 23, 2011 at 7:53:14 pm

[Chris Kenny] " products where coordination with external companies makes secrecy impossible"

Hmmm, yes, well, since you raise the point, you could if you wanted to be a Devil's Advocate argue that Apple could have done everyone a favour by involving third parties vendors (Blackmagic, AJA, not to mention plug-in developers) this time around - some considerable measure of panic has been created because of this. This would not have been entirely at odds with industry practice.

The point stands however that the "sneak peak" was way too showbusiness - distinctly too little business. And after all, most of us are trying to run businesses and don't appreciate being condescended to, no matter who is doing the condescending.

Simon Ubsdell
Director/Editor/Writer
http://www.tokyo-uk.com


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Craig Seeman
Re: in the continuing series of things read on art of the guillotine..
on Apr 23, 2011 at 8:26:30 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "The point stands however that the "sneak peak" was way too showbusiness - distinctly too little business. And after all, most of us are trying to run businesses and don't appreciate being condescended to, no matter who is doing the condescending."

Please describe what they should have done and shown given the bounds that developers can't reveal certain things. The showed what they felt was safe for them to show and said what the felt was safe for them to say given that developers can't say certain things about unfinished products.

Sorry but if they can't reveal things because they are unfinished then they can't. I've posted elsewhere why developers can't say certain things.
http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/335/860

The alternative was to remain completely silent which is typical developer policy and certainly how Apple has done things in the past.


[Simon Ubsdell] "involving third parties vendors (Blackmagic, AJA, "

When the Thunderbolt MacBookPros came out, both the above promised products yet, at the time, refuse to mention anything about those products. It was only at NAB that they actually showed the products since they are now in their final state being manufactured for shipping.

That Apple showed something before its final state is actually very forthcoming.



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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: in the continuing series of things read on art of the guillotine..
on Apr 23, 2011 at 9:30:04 pm

the point you're trying to make about developers and limited information unfinished features etc doesn't apply - its basic information we're talking about here - core functionality that exists in 7 and was never referenced with X. If you're trying to imply that they're "coding" say the XML export ten weeks before launch and that's why they can't talk about it - I'm going to say you're wrong.

besides - what are these mystical 'bounds' and things that 'developers cannot say' what does that even mean? - we're talking about some basic data points about the App - not how its encoding the linear float space - we're talking about the ability to invoke a clip viewer and export an OMF - making grand vague points about the mysteries of development and what is "safe for them to say" (?) doesn't answer the question at all.

http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Craig Seeman
Re: in the continuing series of things read on art of the guillotine..
on Apr 23, 2011 at 9:56:34 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "If you're trying to imply that they're "coding" say the XML export ten weeks before launch and that's why they can't talk about it - I'm going to say you're wrong."

They may be having problems or it may be incomplete. Keep in mind they may have complex issues given their new trackless system. It could mean complex metadata issues such as how does one assign video and audio out to discrete tracks if one is to work in other environments like ProTools or a high end finishing tool where certain types of video need to be on separate tracks.

The very thing about the trackless timeline that's a concern for some of us, may be a real tangle for the developers as well. So XML and OMF may be quite specifically one of those things that they're still working on since they no longer have overt track assignments.

[Aindreas Gallagher] "'developers cannot say' what does that even mean? - we're talking about some basic data points"

I'm not saying people shouldn't be concerned about these things. It's that the very things that concern us may still be something that they're working on. It's not "basic data points" at all. Just because you think it should be done doesn't make it so. I'll repeat again, I've worked with developers and some things certainly may be worked on up to the last minute. Some things may not make it in until the next version. For that very reason that don't want to say anything about such things at this point.

Even if you don't like it, if they can't talk about something, they're taking that position for a practical reason (for them) and it's not simply to be antagonistic or hostile to the Post community dependent on their software. To reduce it to that, that somehow they're just being "rude and inconsiderate" is to ignore the real and very standard reasons why developers don't like talking about such things in advance and why "sneak peeks" are rare especially for Apple.



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Dan Hayes
Re: in the continuing series of things read on art of the guillotine..
on Apr 24, 2011 at 7:07:52 am

[Craig Seeman] "They've never done a sneak peek for any product before that I know of. Apple's marketing strategy has been changing every since Jobs started responding to emails from the public, as far as I can tell. This is new territory for them."

They revealed the first iPhone five and a half month before it shipped.



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Craig Seeman
Re: in the continuing series of things read on art of the guillotine..
on Apr 24, 2011 at 7:54:38 am

[Dan Hayes] "They revealed the first iPhone five and a half month before it shipped."

Product announcement or sneak peek? Big difference as far as marketing is concerned.



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Craig Seeman
Re: in the continuing series of things read on art of the guillotine..
on Apr 24, 2011 at 7:56:59 am

This is?
Jobs keynote.
http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/09/live-from-macworld-2007-steve-jobs-keyno...
Not the same thing then. Official announcement is not a sneak peek at all.
Official is when Apple has everything locked down as far as what they announce.



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Dan Stewart
Re: in the continuing series of things read on art of the guillotine..
on Apr 28, 2011 at 11:34:05 am

Corporate game playing is all very well for the next automagical consumer trinket, but this is a serious issue for many here.

It may be that all of FCP7's abilities and interfaces are retained and the shiny imovie-esque layer is just optional fluff.

BUT

1)Not saying so is worrying to those who will HAVE to figure this stuff out at very short notice (ie, production co: "we got the new FCP, BTW can we see a cut by mid-afternoon?") and

2)The choice of amateur imovie whizbangs to present, as opposed to serious functionality (even the momentary mention of critical functions being retained) is VERY WORRYING to anyone who may find themselves in the situation above in the near future.

Apple have always wavered between serious pro gear and flogging magic beans to fat fingered consumers. If they mean this to be serious gear they should have said so, not having done so is worrying because

A)They didn't and
B) They didn't know they should have.

Should we take them seriously and trust them? The discussion will go on until they realise they need to act like pros to deal with pros or they dump a broken housewife-grade toy on us in June.

What fun!

Dan



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Jerry Hofmann
Re: in the continuing series of things read on art of the guillotine..
on Apr 23, 2011 at 2:46:01 pm

[walter biscardi] "It's clear from the "sneak peek" that Apple is doing their own thing with very limited input from the outside world."

What makes you come to that conclusion?

Jerry

Apple Certified Trainer, Producer, Writer, Director Editor, Gun for Hire and other things. I ski. My Blog: http://blogs.creativecow.net/Jerry-Hofmann

Current DVD:
http://store.creativecow.net/p/81/jerry_hofmanns_final_cut_system_setup

8-Core 3.0 Intel Mac Pro, Dual 2 gig G5, AJA Kona SD, AJA Kona 2, Huge Systems Array UL3D, AJA Io HD, 17" MBP, Matrox MXO2 with MAX - Cinema Displays I have a 22" that I paid 4k for still working. G4 with Kona SD card, and SCSI card.


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Richard Herd
Re: in the continuing series of things read on art of the guillotine..
on Apr 23, 2011 at 4:44:59 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "Is there a brute financial imperative in this kind of ridiculous behaviour?
"


YES!


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