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Sam Mestman
Things you can do that you didn't use to be able to do....
on Mar 14, 2016 at 5:40:51 pm

Things that used to be hard are no longer hard. In 2016, you can now shoot a well made Indie TV Pilot in 6k for less than 20k and easily finish in 4k with FCPX. You can have blazing fast post live on set with multiple computers working from shared storage with Lumaforge’s Indie or Jellyfish models. You can ingest, edit, and upload dailies on set using Frame.io and Coremelt’s Source Timecode plugin, and you can easily make these dailies from your fully synced, ready to edit FCPX library within 10 minutes of downloading your footage using Sync N Link, Shot Notes X, and a script supervisor filling out a cloud spreadsheet. This workflow would have been unthinkable just a few years ago... and for most people in the industry, it still is. However, you can totally do this now and it's not that hard... we did it at We Make Movies (wemakemovies.org) with our new TV Pilot Off The Grid (coming soon). If you still believe FCPX is not a professional tool… you really need to ask yourself why you still think that, and whether you’re missing out on a faster, better and cheaper way to tell your story. Check out my presentation (“Sam shows the Final Cut Pro X Workflow for Off The Grid, an Indie Pilot") from last weeks FCPeXchange, along with the rest of the pretty amazing presentations here: http://www.fcp.co/final-cut-pro/articles/1783-replay-the-fcpx-demos-from-fc...

Sam Mestman
CEO - Lumaforge (http://www.lumaforge.com)
Founder - We Make Movies (http://www.wemakemovies.org)
Workflow Architect - FCPWORKS (http://www.fcpworks.com)


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Nick Toth
Re: Things you can do that you didn't use to be able to do....
on Mar 14, 2016 at 7:50:19 pm

Checked out your presentation over the weekend. Very exciting stuff. Between that and Ronny Courtens recent FCP Radio interview, I'm really curious to see what the response of the community will be. Thanks Sam!


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David Mathis
Re: Things you can do that you didn't use to be able to do....
on Mar 14, 2016 at 8:25:38 pm

Thanks for this post! I now consider the debate over! ;-)

In all seriousness this is a great read and learned much from it.


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Shane Ross
Re: Things you can do that you didn't use to be able to do....
on Mar 14, 2016 at 9:19:41 pm

Yup...with the aid of a handful of third party apps, FCX, is now a professional app!

No...in all seriousness I do believe that it is a pro app. And it's really cool what it can do, and how quick it can do it...with the aid of third party applications. Stuff that Apple didn't see fit in including. I am glad that there are many passionate people out there to make these apps to make for a smooth workflow. And that Apple is pretty open...and current...with developer options to make all this stuff possible. Avid is pretty closed off, and has very old code making it difficult to make third party apps to help make a more current, slick workflow. Still find it funny to say "FCX IS PRO!!" when it took so many apps to help make it so. At least in this instance. WE all know it's pro. It's just sticks in the mud that are Avid-or-die people that don't think so.

[Sam Mestman] "In 2016, you can now shoot a well made Indie TV Pilot in 6k for less than 20k and easily finish in 4k with FCPX."

This is a dangerous statement to make. Because producers will look at that and go "Wow, we can! it's so much more expensive with Avid...let's do that!" And then they try to do so only to find that, no, it isn't that cheap. The tools might be cheaper...although given all the apps used on this, it might be more than the apps used in an Avid workflow (which might need Resolve added for a good finish).

But also, that budget isn't including paying the talent what they are worth. Sam did mention in the FB post on Post Chat (exact same announcement) that the crew was paid. That's good to know. But with that low of a budget...I can't see them being paid the full rate of a crew. This no doubt is a "labor of love" payment. Meaning people worked for far less because they believed in the project. Which is a great thing! This is how new stuff gets made...people making projects on the cheap, for the love of the craft, because they believe in the project. But to say that "we did all of this for $20K!" might plant the seed that going with FCX and these other tools means that projects can be done MUCH CHEAPER than other workflows.

This is the issue we had when FCP 3 came out. "It was cheap, so the editors that used it must be too, right?"
Sorry, this all sounds great in a press release, but those aren't real world costs...so the expectation set it unrealistic. But then I guess that's not the point? But it should be. Say that it was accomplished, and then factor in real costs...what it would cost had you paid everyone a realistic salary.

I dislike when Avid says "Hey! Look at all these Academy nominated films...ALL CUT ON AVID!" As if that's what made them great.

Don't get me wrong, I am impressed with the accomplishements here. And a tad jealous that great third party apps are developed to help smooth things along with FCX when people don't make those for Avid because the developer kit is a pain to get and deal with, plus is old old technology. I just think that press releases need to be genuine. This comes from years of dealing with producers who thought "FCP EDITORS" were cheaper because the software was.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Things you can do that you didn't use to be able to do....
on Mar 15, 2016 at 12:17:32 am

[Shane Ross] "Yup...with the aid of a handful of third party apps, FCX, is now a professional app! "

I know you are half-kidding, but some of the apps are to facilitate getting info from production into the NLE and others like Sync-N-Link are available for FCP Legend and PPro. Sure, something like X2Pro fills a gap in X that is considered 'default' for an NLE to have but not all the apps fit into that category.


I agree with you about the money statement though because those types of things end up getting taken as gospel w/o any thought as to the context the statement was made in.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Things you can do that you didn't use to be able to do....
on Mar 15, 2016 at 12:44:25 am

[Andrew Kimery] "I agree with you about the money statement though because those types of things end up getting taken as gospel w/o any thought as to the context the statement was made in."

A colleague of mine made the switch to LA a few years ago and made the transition from assistant to editor. She stuck with Avid instead of FCP "legacy" jobs precisely because of pay. At least on union gigs, Avid was the tool to stick with. Marketing based on "cheaper" is a slippery slope, because clearly the cost of post has little impact on the total cost of producing TV shows (pilots or otherwise) and films.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Charlie Austin
Re: Things you can do that you didn't use to be able to do....
on Mar 15, 2016 at 12:59:18 am
Last Edited By Charlie Austin on Mar 15, 2016 at 12:58:04 am

[Oliver Peters] "Marketing based on "cheaper" is a slippery slope, because clearly the cost of post has little impact on the total cost of producing TV shows (pilots or otherwise) and films."

I agree. For what it's worth, the marketing - lately anyway - is about easier. Faster. That is good. And the only things you need to add to X for "apex pro" work are EDL-X and X2Pro. 2 apps. That most people who use an NLE, *any* NLE will never need. BFD.

Every NLE relies on 3rd parties, for better or worse.

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Things you can do that you didn't use to be able to do....
on Mar 15, 2016 at 4:51:26 pm

[Oliver Peters] " At least on union gigs, Avid was the tool to stick with."

Yeah, union is typically scripted and scripted is almost entirely Avid. There's also the case of just the budget in general. Lower budget shows tend to be non-Avid so everyone makes less (including the editors).


[Charlie Austin] "I agree. For what it's worth, the marketing - lately anyway - is about easier. Faster. That is good."

Easier, faster... better value. All pitches that sound a lot better than "cheaper". :)


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Shane Ross
Re: Things you can do that you didn't use to be able to do....
on Mar 15, 2016 at 1:32:45 am

[Andrew Kimery] "I know you are half-kidding, but some of the apps are to facilitate getting info from production into the NLE"

I am half kidding, because with many tapeless formats, Avid and PPro need help too, and Resolve is the defacto app to do that. But Avid does have more built in options to deal with specific high end workflows...Change lists and EDLs and AAFs...most everything needed to plug into film and TV workflows. Apple needs help. But that's fine...even with the helper apps, that not everyone needs, it's cheaper than Avid.

No, my main concern is that cost factor thing. Don't need producers gloming onto that idea of "FCX means cheaper labor" thing...

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Things you can do that you didn't use to be able to do....
on Mar 15, 2016 at 8:25:24 pm

What is weird to me is that, back in the early release days, fcpx was clowned for not having third party support.

Now, it gets clowned for having third party support. You can't have your clown and clown it too.

Getting FCPX Projects/Libraries to almost any other "high end" system (Smoke, Flame, Adobe, Resolve) is relatively easy. Getting to Avid and working with Avid, is a huge pain in the rear.


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Charlie Austin
Re: Things you can do that you didn't use to be able to do....
on Mar 15, 2016 at 8:35:16 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Getting FCPX Projects/Libraries to almost any other "high end" system (Smoke, Flame, Adobe, Resolve) is relatively easy. Getting to Avid and working with Avid, is a huge pain in the rear."

According to Micheal Angelo, he ran some tests taking fcpxml into Flame (mac version) and was "amazed" at how well it translated. Like, almost perfectly. MC is really the odd app out here, even going from/to ProTools from MC can be hit or miss. Going into/out of Adobe apps is easy. It could be better better, but the version of xml that they support is ancient. Pretty sure they don't have any motivation to update to fcpxml...

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Robin S. Kurz
Re: Things you can do that you didn't use to be able to do....
on Mar 16, 2016 at 10:43:36 am

[Shane Ross] "how quick it can do it...with the aid of third party applications. Stuff that Apple didn't see fit in including. I am glad that there are many passionate people out there to make these apps to make for a smooth workflow."

I'm confused as to what you're arguing or suggesting with that. Using 3rd party apps to extend functionality is "cheating"? A bad thing? Laziness on Apple's part? More expensive in the end?

Well, aside from others already pointing to the fact that there isn't an NLE on the market that doesn't require "external support" at some point or another, which cancels out the "cheating" part, I'm actually hella glad that e.g. the XML conversion was put in the hands of the most competent XML specialists, Intelligent Assistance. Because with that, the compatibility and functionality could be and WAS improved on probably 10:1 cycle compared to Apple's own FCP updates. Same goes for various other mission critical add-ons that I have. If I had had to wait between 3-4 MONTHS for even smaller fixes to (maybe) come along with the next FCP update... wow. Not to mention that the communication with IA and others is actually possible, near immediate AND tangibly fruitful. ;) So for me that cancels out any possible notion it could be a bad thing or disadvantage.

Apple's "laziness" or disinterest (they don't care about pros!)? I don't believe so. I think they made an obvious choice to leave certain aspects up to others, quite possibly even for those exact reasons I mention. BECAUSE they cared that was done right (for the few that needed it)?

As far as cost is concerned, all I know is that in the exact same time period that I've had FCP X for a measly 300 bucks, CC would have cost me a whopping 2700€ and is going up by the month. With Avid and a monthly sub it would be even that much worse. With FCP X, as we know, it has been 300€... period. Obviously going down by the month (currently at 7.40€/month if you include Motion and Compressor).

So in comparison I could in fact buy every single 3rd party app or plugin that I know of for X and still have cash left over to go crazy on e.g. MotionVFX's site... so cost clearly can't be an argument either.

FWIW
- RK

____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich!


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Steve Connor
Re: Things you can do that you didn't use to be able to do....
on Mar 16, 2016 at 11:26:14 am

[Robin S. Kurz] "MotionVFX's site... so cost clearly can't be an argument either.
"


I have a dream where Apple buy MotionVFX and roll all their fantastic templates and Plugins into FCPX for free :)


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Mathieu Ghekiere
Re: Things you can do that you didn't use to be able to do....
on Mar 16, 2016 at 12:03:48 pm

[Steve Connor] "I have a dream where Apple buy MotionVFX and roll all their fantastic templates and Plugins into FCPX for free :)"

But keeps the team active!

That guys keep on making great stuff every month.

https://mathieughekiere.wordpress.com


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Tony West
Re: Things you can do that you didn't use to be able to do....
on Mar 16, 2016 at 2:17:05 pm

I also like the idea of only paying for what I use.
i'm sure Sync N Link is nice, but I don't need it right now.


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