FORUMS: list search recent posts

Send to Motion..... Could Automatic Duck tackle this?

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro X Debates

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Don Walker
Send to Motion..... Could Automatic Duck tackle this?
on Feb 8, 2016 at 8:06:38 pm

FCPX is by far my favorited NLE. I love it. I certainly prefer it over Avid or Premiere. Along with my love for FCPX, is a companion preference for Motion over AE. That's my opinion, and I know that far better editors than I disagree.
That being said, one of my biggest gripes is the lack of the fabled "Send To Motion" feature. I would envision that a series of clips within a project could be grouped together in a compound clip and then sent to Motion with all temporal & and spatial relationships maintained, and then after all the compositing and effect work is completed sent, back to FCPX as a generator, that is automatically overwritten over the original compound clip.

I know that Automatic Duck, has recently released a FCPX to After Effects translator. Is there any reason legal or technical, that they (or someone else) could not write the same type of program (plugin?) for FCPX?

Wes and Harry, are you out there?????

don walker
texarkana, texas

John 3:16


Return to posts index

David Mathis
Re: Send to Motion..... Could Automatic Duck tackle this?
on Feb 8, 2016 at 9:03:37 pm

You bring up a great question at which point i have no answer. This has long been a minor beef for me, the lack of "Send To Motion" is frustrating. My guess is that, going forward, Apple feels Motion is integrated enough, depending on your definition of that word. Every update that has come about has not fullfilled that one little wish.

Another little wish that I have is the spacial conform setting. I tried using an adjustment layer, spanned across several clips, with the hopes of changing the spacial conform setting globally to those clips within the adjustment layer. That and in the blend modes have to be changed on the individual clips as it will not work in the adjustment layer. Opacity, position and those other things will work. Not sure why this is. Nice to have a way to create an adjustment layer but still needs some minor tweaking.

I also had to create my own countdown leader, something else that is missing.

Sorry for the bit of rant and getting a bit off topic here. I just feel FCP X needs some minor tweaking because I really love editing with it.


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Send to Motion..... Could Automatic Duck tackle this?
on Feb 8, 2016 at 9:29:13 pm

Send to motion was a completely different animal in FCP Legend.

The Motion project used to be a big part of Quicktime so much so that you used to be able to play a Motion project in QT, and import a Motion project in to a layer in to Ae. It also included fair amount of XML. I believe you can still import Motion 4 project to Ae through Ae's Pro Import After Effects option.

Now, Motion 5 has been rewritten and doesn't seem to have much fcpxml exposed to let an import happen.


Return to posts index


Walter Soyka
Re: Send to Motion..... Could Automatic Duck tackle this?
on Feb 9, 2016 at 12:41:01 am

A couple of relevant re-posts follow:


(From "10.2 update" on 5/29/15 at https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/335/81294)

.motn files are themselves XML-based and somewhat human-readable. While there do seem to be a few magic numbers [link] throughout, an enterprising developer could at least partially reverse-engineer the project file format and hope it doesn't change too much in the next version.

In fact, Automatic Duck could bring Motion 4 projects into Ae, but it won't work on M5 projects due to changes in the format.



(From "Send to motion in FCPX" on 2/14/2012 at https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/335/26524#26626)

FCP7 didn't need to know anything about Motion's project file or data structures; it relied on a little bit of very cool QuickTime trickery.

Look in your Macintosh HD > Library > QuickTime folder, and you'll see a file called Motion.component. This component allows the system to present Motion files as QuickTime-accessible media, which were rendered on-the-fly (and under-the-hood) by the Motion rendering engine. Any QuickTime-aware application could "import" .MOTN files this way -- even After Effects [link].

Given that, maybe this is in part a casualty of the QuickTime/AVFoundation transition.


(From "Send to motion in FCPX" on 2/14/2012 at https://forums.creativecow.net/thread/335/26524#26633)

I think the Motion component was a frame server [link]. When the requesting application (be it FCP7, QuickTime Player, or in that example, AE) asks for the next frame of video from a .MOTN file, the Motion QT component directs the Motion engine to render that frame and then passes it back to the application as if it were any other piece of traditional media.

In other words, from FCP's or AE's perspective, it is very much like a codec (decoded by the QuickTime framework). From the component's perspective, and from the Motion renderer's perspective, yes, it's Motion's internal format, not pre-rendered video.

The brilliance of the old system was abstracting all that away from other apps, so they never had to know that they were using a Motion project; it just felt like a regular piece of media, just like any other .MOV file. By engineering the system well, integration came for free.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


Return to posts index

Tim Wilson
Re: Send to Motion..... Could Automatic Duck tackle this?
on Feb 9, 2016 at 1:15:08 am

[Walter Soyka] "The brilliance of the old system was abstracting all that away from other apps, so they never had to know that they were using a Motion project; it just felt like a regular piece of media, just like any other .MOV file. By engineering the system well, integration came for free."

That's exactly the direction that I personally would tend to identify as "modern," "forward," and "generally a good thing."

So why is it, in practice, backwards and perfidious of me to want, or beneath Apple's apparent level of interest, to continue the existence of integration that comes for free?

Or is this new, un-integrated, and -- do I understand correctly? -- un-integratable new arrangement superior in some way that my dinosaur eyes don't see? What's the advantage for either Apple or its customers for Apple to be so committed to not integrating its products as well as they used to be?

Of course, all of this assumes that I'm understanding you, which, through no fault of yours, is likely more optimistic than is useful.

What's the what?


Return to posts index

Charlie Austin
Re: Send to Motion..... Could Automatic Duck tackle this?
on Feb 9, 2016 at 2:47:40 am
Last Edited By Charlie Austin on Feb 9, 2016 at 2:49:52 am

[Tim Wilson] "So why is it, in practice, backwards and perfidious of me to want, or beneath Apple's apparent level of interest, to continue the existence of integration that comes for free?
"


Maybe it's not? QTKit was very mature when this integration was available. AVFoundation is still a moving target. The fact that QTKit still works at all may mean that AVF isn't really done yet. Or not...

FWIW, QT Reference Movies, which Apple had "killed", are back, as is the ability to use growing files etc. So...

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


Return to posts index


Walter Soyka
Re: Send to Motion..... Could Automatic Duck tackle this?
on Feb 9, 2016 at 11:20:54 am

[Charlie Austin] "QTKit was very mature when this integration was available. AVFoundation is still a moving target. The fact that QTKit still works at all may mean that AVF isn't really done yet. Or not..."

How long is reasonable to give Apple the benefit of the doubt on "missing" features?

AV Foundation is nearly five or six years old, depending on whether you count from Lion or iOS 4. That's enough time to go from FCP 1.0 to FCP 5.0.

Walter Soyka
Designer & Mad Scientist at Keen Live [link]
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
@keenlive [twitter]   |   RenderBreak [blog]   |   Profile [LinkedIn]


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Send to Motion..... Could Automatic Duck tackle this?
on Feb 9, 2016 at 1:32:30 pm

[Walter Soyka] "How long is reasonable to give Apple the benefit of the doubt on "missing" features? "

It may be that AVFoundation may never be QTKit for whatever reason.

There was a thread here the other day taking about a patent filing from Apple that discusses a recently approved patent for an audio mixer for an app that looks a lot like fcpx.

The patent was filed Sept 30, 2011, and approved Jan 2016.

https://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/335/86775

Not that a patent needs to determine a release schedule, or ensures that the feature will be included in a future release, but if we have to wait over 4 years for 'feature approval' from the patent office, we could be waiting around a long time for other features.


Return to posts index

Bret Williams
Re: Send to Motion..... Could Automatic Duck tackle this?
on Feb 9, 2016 at 2:39:15 am

People say "send to motion" but what I think they mean is "open in motion." That's really the key. Send to motion just got the round trip process started by saving your selected bit of clips as a motion project and replacing those clips with the motion project. The real key was the ability to place a motion project in the timeline and open it in motion like dynamic link on AE/Premiere. As it stands right now, you can place a generator in the timeline, but once it's there you can't open it in motion and change things. You can open and change the generator itself, but that doesn't ripple to instances already in the timeline. I don't often need send to motion. I use clips in Motion projects but don't usually have a need to send a sequence.

If you really need send to motion you can still do it with a copy of xtoCC and a copy of FCP 7.


Return to posts index


Don Walker
Re: Send to Motion..... Could Automatic Duck tackle this?
on Feb 9, 2016 at 3:17:01 am

[Bret Williams] " I don't often need send to motion. I use clips in Motion projects but don't usually have a need to send a sequence."

Are you saying Bret, that you wouldn't find the ability to edit and faux composite a group of clips together in a project, get the timing just how you want it, and then send that nest (for a lack of a better word) to Motion for the hard core effect work, useful?

don walker
texarkana, texas

John 3:16


Return to posts index

Bret Williams
Re: Send to Motion..... Could Automatic Duck tackle this?
on Feb 9, 2016 at 3:31:24 am

Some would. I just don't come across the need that often. There is more need for that in AE because it's RT playback is kinda useless. In motion, with just some video and audio and basic effects, you can playback just like a regular NLE. So it's pretty easy to accomplish a few bits of timing.

But usually if I'm doing an open graphic with some shots I can time them in Motion or output a ProRes clip pre edited.

What I could use is the ability to take a complicated motion sequence in the timeline and re-open it in motion to make changes and whatnot and see the results back in the sequence without having to render and import and replace.

In any case, we certainly don't have roundtripping. We have a plugin maker. Which is pretty cool too.


Return to posts index

Robin S. Kurz
Re: Send to Motion..... Could Automatic Duck tackle this?
on Feb 10, 2016 at 7:20:49 pm

[Bret Williams] "Some would. I just don't come across the need that often."

Me neither. Given the exponentially improved integration with X compared to 7, both in terms of functionality and most of all speed. Due to the fact that the most relevant tools and features for which I even ever needed Motion are now inside FCP, it's lost a huge amount of importance for me. Everything else I do with Motion, which is a lot, is completely independent of any "sending", since it starts in Motion anyway. In which case the exchange is there as needed. I really only wish that it wasn't necessary to replace "old" instances in a timeline after editing to refresh. That's lame.

I certainly won't be disappointed once it shows up, but I already know that it won't have anywhere near the same relevance to me as it did with 7 and below.

- RK

____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich!


Return to posts index


Bret Williams
Re: Send to Motion..... Could Automatic Duck tackle this?
on Feb 10, 2016 at 7:29:59 pm

Somewhere in there is the key to my issues with it as it is. If I wish to place a motion project in the timeline a la legacy or AE dynamic link, I have to make it a generator. Now the motion project is store inside the bounds of FCP, and not backed up with my other media and job resources. Plus for the generator to work next year when I come back to the project, it must reside in the exact folder inside generators. And the fact that it doesn't dynamically update when I open the generator in motion is just lame as you said.

So they need to fix two things, let the motion projects reside anywhere I want and show up in the EVENT, and either allow me to "open in motion" right from the event or from the timeline or at least dynamically update if I update them in motion.

Really, we shouldn't even need send to motion. Heck, they share the same engine so we should be able to cut and paste to motion! I believe you can cut and paste between Premiere and AE. You can with Illustrator and PS. You can even drag between the apps. That's integration.


Return to posts index

Robin S. Kurz
Re: Send to Motion..... Could Automatic Duck tackle this?
on Feb 10, 2016 at 7:32:27 pm

[Bret Williams] "So they need to fix two things, let the motion projects reside anywhere I want and show up in the EVENT, and either allow me to "open in motion" right from the event or from the timeline or at least dynamically update if I update them in motion."

I'm pretty sure that describes a good part of what's coming. ;)

- RK

____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich!


Return to posts index

Bret Williams
Re: Send to Motion..... Could Automatic Duck tackle this?
on Feb 10, 2016 at 7:33:31 pm

Oh how I hope you just broke your NDA.


Return to posts index


Robin S. Kurz
Re: Send to Motion..... Could Automatic Duck tackle this?
on Feb 10, 2016 at 7:48:55 pm
Last Edited By Robin S. Kurz on Feb 10, 2016 at 7:50:25 pm

[Bret Williams] "Oh how I hope you just broke your NDA."

LOL... I should be so stupid. ;)

I'm thinking there just has to be a new "slot" if you will for just plain, regular Motion projects, which currently are, rather ironically, not useable AT ALL for FCP without turning them into a generator. Kinda tells you something I say. Once you allow for their direct support, I'm guessing the rest is a given, since they wouldn't be relegated to any "media browser" cage as everything else is. So how else are you going to organize them if not exactly as you do everything else i.e. in the Finder/Event/Library, amirite? ;)

But something tells me they're going to conjure up something even far more clever than just that. :-P

History points to the next update being another big(ger) one, so... who knows.

- RK

____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich!


Return to posts index

Bret Williams
Re: Send to Motion..... Could Automatic Duck tackle this?
on Feb 10, 2016 at 7:55:11 pm

I don't want a new slot. I want my motion project stored along side my PSD files, my AE projects, my FCP X library, and my music, etc. all in one singular folder I have for the job at hand. I want them in my event, inside the graphics folder, with keyword motion project. As it is now, when a project is complete I have to go and manually hunt down every single transition, generator, title, and effect that doesn't come stock with FCP X and copy them to a set of folders in the job folder, with the exact structure they were in inside the user>movies>motion templates>generators>my generators>job name>etc...

The possibility for user error is enormous. Especially after a clean install where I've essentially wiped out all the custom stuff. Plus, I don't need years of custom stuff cluttering up the generators and titles.


Return to posts index

Robin S. Kurz
Re: Send to Motion..... Could Automatic Duck tackle this?
on Feb 10, 2016 at 8:38:18 pm

[Bret Williams] "I don't want a new slot. I want my motion project stored along side my PSD files…"

With "slot", for lack of a better word, I meant direct support of vanilla Motion projects (no "publishing" etc. of any kind), which in turn would obviously and automatically bring exactly what you describe, yes. That was my whole point.

[Bret Williams] "every single transition, generator, title, and effect that doesn't come stock with FCP X "

That on the other hand is a whole other ball-o-wax, since you're dealing with potential 3rd party copyright and/or licensing issues. Don't see how they might solve that without leaving that potential crime up to you to commit and not essentially "aid and abide" in the end. The crux of the chosen system. For default material you clearly don't need them saved extra, everything else is still up to you. So I'd say that part stays the way it is or the whole system changes on various levels to accommodate. I wouldn't hold my breath for the latter. We'll see.

- RK

____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich!


Return to posts index


Bret Williams
Re: Send to Motion..... Could Automatic Duck tackle this?
on Feb 10, 2016 at 11:19:54 pm

[Robin S. Kurz] "That on the other hand is a whole other ball-o-wax, since you're dealing with potential 3rd party copyright and/or licensing issues. Don't see how they might solve that without leaving that potential crime up to you to commit and not essentially "aid and abide" in the end. The crux of the chosen system. For default material you clearly don't need them saved extra, everything else is still up to you. So I'd say that part stays the way it is or the whole system changes on various levels to accommodate. I wouldn't hold my breath for the latter. We'll see."

3rd party will always be an issue. But when one of those is missing, you simply reinstall and it gets put into the same place, in the same subfolder.

The problem is with custom title fx, presets, transitions (even changes to apple ones), generators, and effects. Apple gave us the ability to create our own, but there's no management for such fx, and when one is missing, FCP X can't even tell you which ones are missing.

There needs to be a way to store all these custom things, just like motion projects, OUTSIDE the app. When you create transitions and custom fx in Avid or FCP legacy you can drag the custom effect right into a bin. As well, the effect gets saved inside the timeline.


Return to posts index

Simon Ubsdell
Re: Send to Motion..... Could Automatic Duck tackle this?
on Feb 11, 2016 at 2:43:15 pm

[Bret Williams] "The problem is with custom title fx, presets, transitions (even changes to apple ones), generators, and effects. Apple gave us the ability to create our own, but there's no management for such fx"

It may not be entirely what you're asking for, but if you're unfamiliar with it, I would definitely recommend that you check out Andreas Kiel's extremely elaborate and well-thought out and free Motion Template Tool.

Simon Ubsdell
tokyo-uk.com


Return to posts index

Bret Williams
Re: Send to Motion..... Could Automatic Duck tackle this?
on Feb 16, 2016 at 2:39:59 pm

Today I have the issue after the El Cap update. I've copied over all my plugins and custom plugs, but one lower 3rd, a custom version of a motionvfx plug isn't relinking. Rebuilding all of them will really suck and the client has a tiny update. I did the prudent thing and updated after the project was complete. My custom title refuses to acknowledge. Still says it's missing. Of course it doesn't give the file path. But I have a backup of my template folder from yosemite and I put it right back where it was. But nada. Argh!


Return to posts index

Charlie Austin
Re: Send to Motion..... Could Automatic Duck tackle this?
on Feb 16, 2016 at 3:47:05 pm

[Bret Williams] "My custom title refuses to acknowledge. Still says it's missing. Of course it doesn't give the file path."

Did you reinstall the motionvfx plugin? 10.11 made some folder path changes and I know mVFX was one of the plugins affected. So your custom X plugin may be in the right place, but the stuff in the OS that's needed for it to work may not be. Worth shot if u haven't done so...

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


Return to posts index

Robin S. Kurz
Re: Send to Motion..... Could Automatic Duck tackle this?
on Feb 16, 2016 at 4:18:04 pm

[Bret Williams] "I've copied over all my plugins and custom plugs, but one lower 3rd, a custom version of a motionvfx plug isn't relinking. "

You may want to give this a shot: http://www.spherico.com/filmtools/MTT/index.html

- RK

____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich!


Return to posts index

Bret Williams
Re: Send to Motion..... Could Automatic Duck tackle this?
on Feb 16, 2016 at 4:30:56 pm

I may be dense but I installed it and didn't get it. From the overly complicated first interface I was confused. Just one more thing to reinstall on a clean install too. But I'll take another look.

But luckily I fixed my problem. For some reason my custom title was nested in an extra folder (mModules>mModules...) in both my yosemite backup and my new clean install. I dug into the XML and the folder wasn't nested. So it's not enough that the title exists and is in the title browser. No. It has to be in the exact file path. Which X doesn't stare with you unless you want to dig around in the xml.

Next problem. I'm missing a font for one of my titles. The interface doesn't say I'm missing a font or give any warning of any sort. Nada. It just swaps it to Helvetica. So I'm digging through the XML and of course, it's all Helvetica now too. Just opening the project has likely screwed up the project because the font isn't installed. So now I go hunting my old fonts folder hoping I can remember which font it was.

Why do I do clean installs again?


Return to posts index

Robin S. Kurz
Re: Send to Motion..... Could Automatic Duck tackle this?
on Feb 16, 2016 at 4:33:20 pm

If you in fact have a backup, don't you also have access to the previous fonts folder and could simply copy that over as a whole?

- RK

____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich!


Return to posts index

Charlie Austin
Re: Send to Motion..... Could Automatic Duck tackle this?
on Feb 16, 2016 at 4:33:34 pm

[Bret Williams] "Why do I do clean installs again?"

lol.. try maybe opening a pre-update backup of the library and poke around in that project's xml. The old font should still be there.

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


Return to posts index

Bret Williams
Re: Send to Motion..... Could Automatic Duck tackle this?
on Feb 16, 2016 at 4:35:10 pm

Beat ya to it. But guess what? Opening the project f*cks the font and an xml export just reports Helvetica. Don't screw up your fonts folks.


Return to posts index

Charlie Austin
Re: Send to Motion..... Could Automatic Duck tackle this?
on Feb 16, 2016 at 4:41:20 pm

[Bret Williams] "Beat ya to it. But guess what? Opening the project f*cks the font and an xml export just reports Helvetica. Don't screw up your fonts folks."

No I mean open the backup project package, and then open the projects' fcpevent database in a text editor (i suggest text wrangler, the free version of BBEdit) search for "font" and you'll find it towards the end of the file... After all the code gibberish there's some human readable xml that'll list it... :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


Return to posts index

Shawn Miller
Re: Send to Motion..... Could Automatic Duck tackle this?
on Feb 10, 2016 at 8:12:13 pm
Last Edited By Shawn Miller on Feb 10, 2016 at 8:15:14 pm

[Bret Williams] " I believe you can cut and paste between Premiere and AE."

In case anyone actually cares... you can cut and paste clips from a PPro timeline into an AE timeline, and you can drag and drop or import a PPro sequence into an AE project panel (where it will treat that sequence as a clip). You can't D&D from AE to PPro though, you have to use the Media Browser or the import dialog to do that. :-)

Shawn



Return to posts index

Roger Bolton
Re: Send to Motion..... Could Automatic Duck tackle this?
on Feb 11, 2016 at 7:54:49 pm

We've also looked at this. As others have said the real issue is that the motion project format is undocumented and motion has no ability to import FCPXML (why that is makes no sense to me).
Having said that to just have a limited send to motion where the clip timings and layering came across into a motion project is probably doable for a developer. Select the clips you want -> export XML -> drag and drop XML into an app which creates a motion project. Getting it to work with any rotation, keyframes, effects etc you've already applied inside FCP X would be a much much harder problem and prone to breaking every time Apple updates something.

All they need to do is provide motion the ability to read FCPXML, and the ability for a motion project anywhere on the HD to be dropped onto the FCP timeline. Problem solved, but Apple needs to do this, not a third party.


Return to posts index

David Sikes
Re: Send to Motion..... Could Automatic Duck tackle this?
on Apr 22, 2016 at 6:09:28 pm

[Shawn Miller] "You can't D&D from AE to PPro though, you have to use the Media Browser or the import dialog to do that. :-)
"


Minor correction, Shawn—you can drag and drop a comp from AE to the Premiere project view, just not into the timeline.


Return to posts index

Shawn Miller
Re: Send to Motion..... Could Automatic Duck tackle this?
on Apr 22, 2016 at 7:10:52 pm

[David Sikes] "Minor correction, Shawn—you can drag and drop a comp from AE to the Premiere project view, just not into the timeline."

I didn't know that, thanks for the clarification.

Shawn



Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: Send to Motion..... Could Automatic Duck tackle this?
on Feb 17, 2016 at 7:32:55 am

Wes is, I think, still recovering from an athletic injury - sounds like it was a "crutches" rather than a "laid up in bed constantly" thing.

Might slow his productivity a little but knowing him very casually, I suspect whatever he is working on (and I have NO CLUE what that might be - will surely make news when it's ready.

I also suspect that he is keenly aware of what markets are out there, the general landscape of the competition, and where his development skills can make a difference.

I suspect he'll be at NAB as usual.

So it won't be long until we find out what he's currently up to.

FWIW.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


Return to posts index

Wes Plate
Re: Send to Motion..... Could Automatic Duck tackle this?
on Apr 22, 2016 at 4:54:34 pm

Automatic Duck is tackling it!

On Monday we announced Xsend Motion, a new application that converts FCPX timelines into Apple's Motion.
http://www.automaticduck.com/#xsend-motion
Xsend Motion is still in development and will ship soon.

We are excited to bring this to you.



Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]