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Tom Osborn
2 editors collaborating in library. SAN?
on Jan 5, 2016 at 12:17:59 pm
Last Edited By Tom Osborn on Jan 5, 2016 at 12:27:09 pm

Hello hive mind!
This seems like a simple question with some relatively complicated answers.

Please forgive me if this seems to have been solved somewhere else. I have searched but either the answers were not relevant to my situation or the solutions offered assumed a higher level of understanding than I possess. I'm not a full time editor, I'm helping somebody out.

We are 2 editors working in the same building on the same network. The footage and all media will be stored on a shared QNAP drive. Each of us is working with the latest version of FCPX. There are 200 very short videos to make and they will need to go through a few iterations, meaning that we will each need to access the media simultaneously, and we will both need access to every project (timeline), though not simultaneously.

This is now me going through what I've discovered while trying to investigate how to do it, so any of this next section may be incorrect. It seems that the missing element is an SAN or Xsan location in which to store the shared libraries, whether the libraries are permanently there or repeatedly saved there for sharing. I don't know how to create an SAN location in the QNAP, if that's what I'm supposed to be doing. I've been through the QNAP interface and I may simply be being stupid but I can't find any way to do it.

Also, is NFS an option/alternative?

If there is another solution I'd love to hear it.

Happy to provide any more info if necessary, but I'm in a real fix and need to get this sorted asap. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Tom


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Robin S. Kurz
Re: 2 editors collaborating in library. SAN?
on Jan 5, 2016 at 5:44:17 pm

You may consider the few bucks for this: http://amzn.to/1TCqF0b and see if there is any useful information in there for you.

- RK

____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich!


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John Rofrano
Re: 2 editors collaborating in library. SAN?
on Jan 5, 2016 at 9:13:11 pm

[Tom Osborn] "It seems that the missing element is an SAN or Xsan location in which to store the shared libraries, whether the libraries are permanently there or repeatedly saved there for sharing. I don't know how to create an SAN location in the QNAP, if that's what I'm supposed to be doing."
You can use either a SAN or NAS, you don't need both. The important part is that you have shared storage for the media files. Since you already have the QNAP NAS, just continue to use that as long as it's fast enough to edit with. People recommend SAN because it can be connected via high speed fibre channel.

What you need to do is to have each editor work with local libraries that have all of the media external on a folder on the NAS. Then set up a separate library on the NAS to act as a shared library that just contains just the projects. Here is the workflow:
  • When you want to share a project you open the shared library, copy your project from your local library to the shared library and close the shared library.
  • When you want to work on a shared project you open the shared library, copy the project to your local library and close the shared library.
All modifications are done on a local copy of the project. You only copy it back to the shared library when you want to share it again. This seems to be the best way to operate in a workgroup environment. The key is to work locally, not use managed libraries (i.e., all media must be external), and to have a separate library for just sharing projects.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Noah Kadner
Re: 2 editors collaborating in library. SAN?
on Jan 5, 2016 at 9:37:35 pm

Yep, the bottom line takeaway with FCPX is that 2 editors can collaborate simultaneously from the same pieces of media on a shared network. But not simultaneously on the same Library.

Noah

FCPWORKS - FCPX Workflow
FCP eXchange - FCPX Workshops


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Bob Woodhead
Re: 2 editors collaborating in library. SAN? // some specifics?
on Jan 10, 2016 at 2:36:43 pm
Last Edited By Bob Woodhead on Jan 10, 2016 at 2:37:47 pm

[John Rofrano] "All modifications are done on a local copy of the project. You only copy it back to the shared library when you want to share it again.."

Say 3 edit stations. Edit A wants to add some broll to Library-MASTER. Edit A announces "I want to use MASTER, please close it if you have it open." Edit A proceeds to ingest & keyword new broll, then closes the library. Edit B now opens the library, wants to add the new broll to their local library ( Library-EDIT_B). How do the editors quickly add new broll, that gets added frequently, to their local libraries? Does the ingesting editor use a whiteboard to list import times, so others can sort clips by "added to library" timestamp? Another method?

On projects, would the best method be for the modifying editor to add a version # to the project when copied back to the MASTER library, so the original MASTER shared is not overwritten?


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John Rofrano
Re: 2 editors collaborating in library. SAN? // some specifics?
on Jan 10, 2016 at 9:23:24 pm
Last Edited By John Rofrano on Jan 10, 2016 at 9:31:05 pm

[Bob Woodhead] "Edit A wants to add some broll to Library-MASTER. Edit A announces "I want to use MASTER, please close it if you have it open." Edit A proceeds to ingest & keyword new broll, then closes the library. Edit B now opens the library, wants to add the new broll to their local library ( Library-EDIT_B)."
It's important that I clarify that I am NOT recommending a MASTER library. Tom, wanted a repository of projects only. No media, just project files. This is different that what you are asking about which is ingesting new footage and sharing it across editors.

So there is no MASTER library that someone has open. There are local libraries and shared libraries that just represent changes that you want to share. There doesn't have to be only one shared library and they might not be around for long. Think of the shared libraries like thumb drives. You are just using them to exchange what you want to share and only long enough to for the other editors to copy locally.
[Bob Woodhead] "How do the editors quickly add new broll, that gets added frequently, to their local libraries? Does the ingesting editor use a whiteboard to list import times, so others can sort clips by "added to library" timestamp? Another method?"
The editor who is ingesting should create a new shared library and import into a new event in that library. They would do all of their keywording, tagging, etc. in that library/event. When they are finished, they should copy this event into their local library and then tell the other editors to do the same. Since the clips will be pointing to the same media on the shared storage, there should be no missing media after the copy locally. Once everyone has copied the event to their local library you can delete the shared library or move it to an archive folder for safe keeping. Every new ingestion would be a new library so the library itself does the bookkeeping for you because it only contains changes.

The important concept is: Share Library = Thumb Drive!

You create one to share a project or event with clips. Copy it to the shared storage. Other editors can copy the project or event locally. Then delete the shared library once everyone has a copy. Just like using a thumb drive for temporary transfers.

The original poster, Tom, was asking about a long lived repository of projects and you can use a shared library for that too. As long as all of the media is placed on the shared storage, these shared libraries will be very small. What you don't want to do is to have someone doing work in the shared library; it is just for sharing.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Bob Woodhead
Re: 2 editors collaborating in library. SAN? // some specifics?
on Jan 10, 2016 at 9:50:18 pm
Last Edited By Bob Woodhead on Jan 10, 2016 at 9:51:58 pm

OK, I understand that workflow.

But I'm still wondering why an "master" library wouldn't work well for multiple editors working on parts of a larger production.
Thinking:
Any editor adding clips to their "work" library first creates a new event for new clips. After that's done, they open the "master" library and copy their new event to it. They then close the "master", so it's available to the other editors for the same purpose. That way, any editor can ingest without waiting for the "master" to be available. Also, editors can copy others' new events into their own local "work" library. When the production is complete, editors can sequentially open the "master" library and copy their projects into it.
Thus, at the end, all media referenced by all editors exists in the "master" library, and all final projects are also in the "master" library.

Flaws?


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John Rofrano
Re: 2 editors collaborating in library. SAN? // some specifics?
on Jan 11, 2016 at 1:11:29 am

[Bob Woodhead] "Flaws?"
Nope. That should work as well but the editors would need to manually coordinate who is updating the master library. if they do that your suggestion of a master would work. You would still need the discipline of only adding new media to new events so that it is easy for the other editors to just copy the events and get everything. if you added media to an existing event there would really be no way to tell what's new and what's not. So with discipline a master library would also work.

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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Bob Zelin
Re: 2 editors collaborating in library. SAN?
on Jan 6, 2016 at 5:59:44 pm

Hi Tom -
why is it your responsibility to setup the QNAP ? Why is the editor the one who is supposed to figure this out ?

The QNAP (depending on the model that you own) will work perfectly fine for this. You can use .smb or .afp to connect (just keep your libraries local) and reference the media that lives on the QNAP, or enable NFS, and then you can keep your libraries on the QNAP (write and create libraries on the QNAP).

It troubles me when a company says "here is this box, go figure it out". That's not the way it works, and this should not be your problem.

Bob Zelin

Bob Zelin
Rescue 1, Inc.
bobzelin@icloud.com


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Noah Kadner
Re: 2 editors collaborating in library. SAN?
on Jan 7, 2016 at 1:51:16 am

Also it will be your fault when it barfs. Instead you should hire a pro like Bob!

Noah

FCPWORKS - FCPX Workflow
FCP eXchange - FCPX Workshops


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Darren Roark
Re: 2 editors collaborating in library. SAN?
on Jan 7, 2016 at 9:04:58 pm

I agree with you Bob 100%, expecting an editor to be a shared storage engineer is like expecting a family doctor to perform occasional heart transplants.

I'm seeing more and more that this is becoming the new normal at smaller shops.


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: 2 editors collaborating in library. SAN?
on Jan 8, 2016 at 8:43:16 pm

Bob - It seems that this is becoming a trend in small production houses. I have a friend who's been an editor for eons, worked in the mass storage department at AVID for a while, and knows both the editing and the mass storage sides of things.

A company who hired him (as an editor) discovered that he knew his stuff on the shared storage side, and muscled him (for no extra money) to set up their system, thus becoming both the editor and storage IT guy. Needless to say, as the company's fortunes began to slide a bit, the began to hire the cheap new crop of cub scout editors coming out of wherever they come out of, and the editor/storage IT guy, also had to become the teacher/hallway monitor for the storage system. He would get calls at all hours from the new guys who had no idea where anything was being put, or needed to put, and they were losing files and projects right and left.

The storage management job became more time consuming than the editing, and even a couple of years after he left the facility he still gets calls asking him what to do, or why he set something up a certain way...

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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John Rofrano
Re: 2 editors collaborating in library. SAN?
on Jan 9, 2016 at 2:28:07 pm

In fareness to Tom, the original poster, he did say, "... I'm not a full time editor, I'm helping somebody out. " so the company doesn't even think enough of the video editing job to hire a full-time editor and you want them to hire a storage engineer? lol :-D

~jr

http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com



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