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Where is an editing program with Automated Speech Recognition?

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Brett Sherman
Where is an editing program with Automated Speech Recognition?
on Dec 29, 2015 at 8:27:40 pm

When I think about the feature that would really save me a ton of time editing, it's obvious. Automated Speech Recognition. It would quite frankly be revolutionary for my editing process. The thing is, where is it? The technology is there. Siri, Dragon for Mac, Google Voice, etc.. Just about every Youtube clip uploaded is run through ASR that can be accessed with the Youtube API. If every cat video in the world gets ASR, why can't all my clips?

Yes I know it won't be even 90% reliable at this point. But that doesn't mean it wouldn't be useful at 80%. And that percent is only going to get better with time. Apple would seem to have some advantage in this with Siri technology.

So how about it Apple? Be revolutionary. Here's your chance.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Where is an editing program with Automated Speech Recognition?
on Dec 29, 2015 at 10:05:04 pm

Do you mean editing based on operator voice commands? If so CMX tried that decades ago and it never took off.

If you mean speech analysis to generate speech-to-text, then Adobe has had that for several versions. If you properly "teach" the module the type of speech to recognize, it does a passable job, sometimes. However, user response wasn't great and as far as I can tell, Adobe has largely abandoned it. If it's still there, it's somewhere in Audition.

If you mean the opposite - lining up speech to existing text, then Avid and Boris have had that technology care of Nexidia. As this involves licensing, it becomes a sticky issue, which is where Avid and Nexidia still remain apart for any recent MC versions.

But what is it that you are really trying to accomplish? In theory, if you want audio to generate a transcript that shows up in the browser for example and is linked back to audio points within clips, I suspect Apple would run afoul of several patents. Not to say they couldn't do it, but just that there's more to it than the technology. Remember, too, that Siri works because of a cloud-based assist from Apple.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Andy Field
Re: Where is an editing program with Automated Speech Recognition?
on Dec 29, 2015 at 10:58:18 pm

I think he meant what Premiere used to do (but they killed it recently) Voice recognition that would log and transcribe interviews -- when Premiere's worked - it was great (for standard clear slow spoken English) when it didn't, it was worthless -- Adobe gave up on it - but if you are a CC subscriber, you can download an earlier version of Premiere pro CS 6 (and even some early CC versions) and it still works

What i don't get is that Dragon's Voice Recognition app (free on IPhone) works great and is about 90 percent accurate for most speakers -- why can't they incorporate that in some of the NLE's and take away hours of logging headaches for documentaries and news?

Boris's work's phonetically and only for searching something you know is already there -- not for transcription.

Andy Field
FieldVision Productions
N. Bethesda, Maryland 20852


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Brett Sherman
Re: Where is an editing program with Automated Speech Recognition?
on Dec 30, 2015 at 1:25:26 am

[Andy Field] "I think he meant what Premiere used to do (but they killed it recently) Voice recognition that would log and transcribe interviews"

That's it.

[Andy Field] "What i don't get is that Dragon's Voice Recognition app (free on IPhone) works great and is about 90 percent accurate for most speakers -- why can't they incorporate that in some of the NLE's and take away hours of logging headaches for documentaries and news?"

Yep. That's my point. I have to limit my use of transcription services for cost reasons. If I had textual access to every single clip in my library, it would be a game changer.

As far as patents. I have no doubt there are B.S. patents. But if Oliver is suggesting it would be against a patent to tie specific speech via text to a specific time, then all closed captioning would run afoul of the same patent. That is in fact what an .SRT file is. Which is what Youtube's ASR creates.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Where is an editing program with Automated Speech Recognition?
on Dec 30, 2015 at 1:42:12 am

[Brett Sherman] "But if Oliver is suggesting it would be against a patent to tie specific speech via text to a specific time, then all closed captioning would run afoul of the same patent"

The patent I was referring to was Nexidia's, which relates to Avid and Boris. I'm sure Adobe has a licensing deal with Autonomy for their technology. In the case of Nexidia the patent relates to waveform analysis based on sounds and the image they create in a waveform pattern. Compare the waveform against a known library and derive a link between the audio and existing text. That's the opposite of what you are asking for, of course. It's more detailed than that, but that's the short explanation.

I have no idea what YouTube uses. Maybe the same thing live broadcasters use, which is hardware-based. YouTube also uses music analysis to find music licensing infringement. Out of curiosity, how long does it take YouTube to generate captioning after upload?

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: Where is an editing program with Automated Speech Recognition?
on Dec 30, 2015 at 1:55:18 am

FWIW - YouTube actually talks about manually adding your own subtitles.







For automatic subtitle creation, they recommend that you edit these after the fact for accuracy. Sounds a lot like what Adobe was doing with Autonomy.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Brett Sherman
Re: Where is an editing program with Automated Speech Recognition?
on Dec 30, 2015 at 2:31:39 am
Last Edited By Brett Sherman on Dec 30, 2015 at 2:40:00 am

Unbeknownst to most users, Youtube is actually analyzing the audio, creating it's own SRT file, separate and apart from whatever the user uploads or creates. This is not intended for captioning and the can be accessed only with the Youtube API. At this point Youtube searches do not search these files. No doubt Google has intentions of mining this trove of textual data at some point.

I'm not sure how long it takes for Youtube to generate their transcript. We hired a company to catalogue our Youtube video library this way. For that they actually edit the automated transcript to get 100% accuracy. But it is all timecoded for them by Youtube.

But what we're thinking about is setting up a workflow to upload interviews to Youtube as a private video. Grab their SRT file (unedited and thus about 80% accurate) and use it for text searches that would at least point to how many minutes and seconds into the clip to find it. Seems kind of crazy as it would be much easier if such capabilities were just built into the video editing program.

As far as Siri requiring the cloud. I think that has more to do with limited storage space and processing power of phones. Apple has speech to text built into the OS. I think it requires a couple GB of data to download for that capability. Not sure how it compares to Siri exactly, but it is reasonably capable.


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Mark Suszko
Re: Where is an editing program with Automated Speech Recognition?
on Dec 30, 2015 at 5:54:25 pm

Brett Said:
But what we're thinking about is setting up a workflow to upload interviews to Youtube as a private video. Grab their SRT file (unedited and thus about 80% accurate) and use it for text searches that would at least point to how many minutes and seconds into the clip to find it. Seems kind of crazy as it would be much easier if such capabilities were just built into the video editing program.

I've actually been doing exactly this the past couple of weeks. There's freeware apps that will translate the .SRT files from YouTube into the other popular captioning formats. I'm still having trouble at the final steps of generating 601 closed captions in my timeline from these, but I continue to experiment. YouTube is pretty fast at the transcription, and I find editing their transcripts right on their site is pretty simple. You can get better, faster transcripts on the fly if you use a headset and Dragon to listen to the program audio and "re-speak" everything in one clear voice to the machine.


Transcripts for clips makes them keyword-searchable, not just in the edit, but later, once in distribution on the net. So it's not just for the deaf, but for everybody.

A lot of institutional users that get federal funding, schools, state agencies, hospitals, etc., are required to caption a lot of their programming, so an NLE that makes this easy is going to lock in a lot of users over the long haul.

Auto-transcriptioning and one-step broadcast legal captioning: Its my number one request to Apple for improving FCPX.


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Joe Marler
Re: Where is an editing program with Automated Speech Recognition?
on Dec 30, 2015 at 3:55:01 pm

[Brett Sherman] "...would really save me a ton of time editing, it's obvious. Automated Speech Recognition. It would quite frankly be revolutionary for my editing process. The thing is, where is it? The technology is there....Yes I know it won't be even 90% reliable at this point."

I agree. The technology is apparently available for non-trained, speaker-independent automated transcription at a sufficient quality level for various purposes. My Comcast phone service has automated transcription of voice mail, and it works fairly well. http://www.comcast.com/readablevoicemail. The underlying patent for this technology is apparently stated here: http://www.google.com/patents/US6775651

Nuance also has voicemail-to-text; I don't know if the underlying technology is shared with Comcast or not: http://www.nuance.com/for-business/mobile-solutions/voice-to-text-services/...

Voicemail to text is speaker-independent automated transcription. It can obviously be done on longer input files.

At one time the web service http://www.voicebase.com/ did free automated transcription but it's no longer free.

The previous Premiere Speech Analysis yielded generally poor accuracy for pure transcription. It was mainly designed to sync a written script with narrated audio, not stand-alone speech to text.

I tested Dragon Dictate 4 for Mac, which can transcribe pre-recorded audio files. It had better accuracy than VoiceBase (back when VoiceBase was free) but is designed for a single speaker and requires a brief training per voice. It also does not do auto-punctuation.

It would seem there's a significant market for a stand-alone speaker-independent transcription product which works with pre-recorded audio and does not require training. For documentaries the conversion accuracy could be quite modest, yet still be useful. The fact that Comcast and Nuance already use this shows it is technically feasible.

I don't know what the impediment is to implementing this more widely on personal computer platforms.


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Where is an editing program with Automated Speech Recognition?
on Dec 30, 2015 at 6:04:38 pm

Interestingly enough, I have a Windows phone, and the voice transcription on it is probably in the 95 to 100 percent range. Of course, this is me in front of the phone, speaking directly into the mic, but I can rattle off a text message or email with very little correction necessary.

There's also voice transcription available in MS Word - I don't know how you'd utilize it in your workflow, but it's there.

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: Where is an editing program with Automated Speech Recognition?
on Dec 30, 2015 at 6:14:47 pm

[Joseph W. Bourke] "Of course, this is me in front of the phone, speaking directly into the mic, but I can rattle off a text message or email with very little correction necessary. "

That's the thing with any of this. There's a certain amount of "training the device" that's required. This calibrates it to your pronounciation. That's why the accuracy is better than random audio from a raw field tape.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Michael Phillips
Re: Where is an editing program with Automated Speech Recognition?
on Dec 30, 2015 at 7:26:18 pm

As Oliver points out, speech to text relies on some amount of training (although that's getting better) but quality and speed of speech being dictated. If there is a lot of accents, environment noise and such, accuracy goes down quite a bit. There are two ways to go about this that have been mentioned:

1. Nuance (Dragon, Siri, Cortana, etc.) These are dictionary based systems in order to provide the text. They can only be as good as the dictionary that powers them and typically dictionaries are not that up to date with people names and places. Combine that with training for voice, accent, microphone type, and the effect of the environment, not to mention any emotion or volume changes you might find in your footage. Your mileage may vary. The BBC and other services use Dragon type applications once trained to the voice to listen to the playback via headphones while dictating back into Nuance. This removes a lot of the issues stated and lets humans interact with the output.

2. Phonetic based solutions like Nexidia. This is not a dictionary based system. It is based on phonemes. Every language has some number of phonemes that make up the entire language. On average it is like 30 to 36 depending on language. Unsure of Asian languages that also rely on tonality. The phonemes can be indexed at up to dozen times faster than real time per core processor and creates an index file that is slightly under 5MB for ever hour of audio indexed. That file also includes other metadata such as timing offset into file, file name, etc. This also allows the search to be lightening fast. I have done searches on libraries containing tens of thousands of hours with results in less than 2 seconds. The search is done by entering a text string which in turn gets transformed to its phoneme representation and then compared against all the indexed files for the results. But there is no correlation of phonemes to dictionary based solutions which is why Nexidia has not developed a speech to text solution. Phoneme based solutions provide a whole other and different benefit than speech to text.

3. Sync to text. This is an extension of the Nexidia technology when combined with a text file containing the dialogue. In this case, not only is the audio essence indexed into PAT files, but the text string is also "phomeme'd" as per previous and the results stored with the text file for later offset index into the media file. This same concept is what allows Nexidia to offer a close captioning and subtitle sync check for QC as it also does language identification, sync, completeness, etc.

Adobe's technology was licensed from Autonomy. Overall the results were not that great because of the above issues, and it probably came down to the cost of the license to the actual success of the feature. In later versions it was recommended that a transcript be provided to help with the "sync" process, but that sort of defeated the whole purpose of speech to text to begin with.

As far as patents go, there are plenty - Nexidia has several surround their technology, Autonomy has theirs, Avid has some surrounding the use of speech technology as it relates to script and transcripts as part of an editorial process (of which one of them is one I created and now wish I owned...). The original Script Based Editing patent which was the manual process of syncing media to scripts was owned by Ediflex, traded to Avid for systems when they went out of business. That patent has since expired meaning any NLE could offer a script based editing interface. The ScriptSync side of the patents will expire in about 25 months.

I believe there is a whole lot more that can be done with script interfaces and that ScriptSync only scratched the surface of how content creators and editors can engage with their footage throughout the production process. As with all businesses, is it worth the ROI ad will users pay for it.


Michael


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Michael Phillips
Re: Where is an editing program with Automated Speech Recognition?
on Dec 30, 2015 at 11:38:51 pm

And then again, breakthroughs are being made with a new company Voxil:

http://www.theonion.com/article/new-speech-recognition-software-factors-in-...


;)



Michael


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: Where is an editing program with Automated Speech Recognition?
on Dec 31, 2015 at 5:36:24 pm

And I believe the Voxil software comes with a sneeze and food chunk ballistic screen protector, which keeps pieces of bologna, chapati, rice, french fries (depending on your location/diet) from damaging the screen.

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Brett Sherman
Re: Where is an editing program with Automated Speech Recognition?
on Jan 3, 2016 at 10:37:10 pm

[Michael Phillips] "1. Nuance (Dragon, Siri, Cortana, etc.) These are dictionary based systems in order to provide the text. They can only be as good as the dictionary that powers them and typically dictionaries are not that up to date with people names and places. Combine that with training for voice, accent, microphone type, and the effect of the environment, not to mention any emotion or volume changes you might find in your footage. Your mileage may vary. "

No doubt Dragon for Mac is better when trained, but you don't have to train it. It now has a transcription mode where you can give it an .aiff file, select a profile and have it transcribe away. I just have a profile I call "generic female" and "generic male". Of course it will never replace human transcription for 100% accuracy, but that's not what I'm after. A 90% accurate transcript can easily help me find the needle in a haystack that I'm looking for in an interview. I can find interviews where they talk about a particular subject area. I can zero in on the part of the interview where they talk about that.


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Rich Rubasch
Re: Where is an editing program with Automated Speech Recognition?
on Jan 4, 2016 at 7:23:39 pm

One of the Cable guys added voice recognition to its remote control...I think it is called Xfinity and the TV spot shows people holding the remote up to their mouth saying things like "record" or "go to channel..."

Coming soon?

Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media Inc.
Video Production, Post, Studio Sound Stage
Founder/President/Editor/Designer/Animator
http://www.tiltmedia.com


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Michael Phillips
Re: Where is an editing program with Automated Speech Recognition?
on Jan 4, 2016 at 7:37:04 pm

I forgot to add that UI commands for certain functions are also more accurate as it comes from a list of predictive and expected library - record, play, change, etc. It also works well for show names, actors, directors as those proper names are also in the library.

I'll have to give the Nuance another run of tests with its AIFF file based speech to text with my test media.

Speech to text is getting better, just different expectations for different applications.


Michael


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Robin S. Kurz
Re: Where is an editing program with Automated Speech Recognition?
on Jan 7, 2016 at 6:57:19 pm

[Brett Sherman] "The thing is, where is it? The technology is there. Siri… "

Ironically, and I think I mentioned it here before, I in fact used Siri (i.e. OS X's built in dictation) to transcribe clips before. And yes, it's something I've been calling for ever since, as a "unified feature" for FCP, since even though it had its caveats then and even more now, it basically worked really well as far as the recognition went. It just needed to be willing to work around the PITA parts. :D

I would open a clip with the Quicktime Player and play it (with needed pre-roll). While playing, I'd jump into FCP, with the cursor already in the "Notes" field of a previous marked favorite (the segment I wanted to transcribe) and, with an external microphone, simply hit the shortcut for dictation, hold the mic up to the speaker and away I went. It actually worked amazingly well in terms of recognition and I had the favorites "tagged" with what was in fact said. So in principle it actually worked! After that I could search words and have it filter out *just that* section/favorite.

This was when dictation was first introduced (10.8?). So the primary caveat (the PITA part) was, that it wouldn't take more than 30 secs at a time, had to be sent to the Siri cloud and come back. And the hectic switching back and forth to not miss the mark.

Since then, two major things happened. 1. the dictation has been moved locally (if you download the needed files) and become near realtime with that, which is very cool... but... 2. for whatever reason, the speakers are MUTED now, the moment you hit the dictation shortcut! Whaa? So the whole idea pretty much imploded with that. Aside from the fact that there were the major finger acrobatics involved (switching back and forth and hitting everything at the right moment) to even get it to work halfway with the first version. So I never really really got past an experimentation phase i.e. "proof of concept".

So yes, ever since I have thought pretty much the exact same thing! The software is there... why couldn't Apple simply open a "channel" from FCP to the OS's own dictation?? It's all there and it all works superbly by itself... why not simply connect the dots?

We'll see if it ever comes to fruition.

- RK

____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich!


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Michael Phillips
Re: Where is an editing program with Automated Speech Recognition?
on Jan 7, 2016 at 7:40:54 pm

How do you download the components needed to make it local? WOuld love to run these tests again without the 30 second limit.

I tried the OS X speech to text via a stream playing from a another computer and it had the same 30 second limit. I used for a test the Conan, Kevin Hart, Ice T video that was recently released streaming from YouTube via a nice quality speaker aimed at the MacBookPro microphone:








So for the first 30 seconds I got via OS X:

One of my staff members Diana Chang hey Diana hey you getting your drivers license I thought help my staff members I take you out for a long time I got my lessons when I was 16 and I was like 5050 something with you are right my staff members I take you ou

And my manual transcription got:

Hey everybody, meet one of my staff members, Dianna Chang. Hey Dianna. Hey. You’re getting your driver’s license. Hmm hmm. I thought, cause I like to help my staff members, I’d take you out, give you some of my pointers ‘cause I’ve been driving for a long time. I got my license when I was sixteen, and that was … well.. How old you think I am? Like fifty… fifty something? [laughter] Which you are, right?


Now of course transcribing it allows for additional notes like audience laughter, and notation of hesitation which in itself is interesting to know as it hints at delivery or performance. Also, human transcription can further differentiate by speaker which is useful. I did not do that to have be a similar result (other than punctuation and such).


Word count shows 54 out of original 76 which from a word for word view is 71%. Comprehension or context is up to the user that may be familiar with the footage already and these become more keyword like and do have value. What you don't get is the additional sync to source that ScriptSync or even Adobe's text feature allowed once a transcript was available.

The other interesting thing to note is consistency, I went back and did the OS X version again with same set-up and got the following result:

But everybody needs one of my staff members sign you’re getting your drivers license I thought going to help my stock numbers I take you out on time I got my was 16 and I was 12 I will be 50 something



Michael


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Robin S. Kurz
Re: Where is an editing program with Automated Speech Recognition?
on Jan 7, 2016 at 8:41:48 pm
Last Edited By Robin S. Kurz on Jan 8, 2016 at 5:12:45 pm

[Michael Phillips] "How do you download the components needed to make it local? WOuld love to run these tests again without the 30 second limit. "

Simply go to the dictation system setting and check "Use Enhanced Dictation".

And by no means am I saying that it is some sort of replacement for human transcription. Testing on a video like that of things (which I bizarrely had just finished watching about two minutes before I saw your post... what are the odds) may not exactly be the perfect choice. Something along the lines of an interview or dialog scene would possibly yield better results, as in my tests. But then I personally don't expect 100% accuracy (yet) either, as long as certain keywords were recognized, in which case around 75% would be great. And either way it would be better than nothing. And if e.g. as a note on a favorite (as described), small edits/corrections aren't a big deal if needed.

As always, YMMV.

- RK

____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich!


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Robin S. Kurz
Re: Where is an editing program with Automated Speech Recognition?
on Jan 8, 2016 at 5:50:38 pm
Last Edited By Robin S. Kurz on Jan 8, 2016 at 5:51:38 pm

And by the way, as Philip recently pointed out, think of the possibilities if Apple in fact connected all the dots. They altogether have a truly impressive collection of metadata-deriving technologies. With all of them combined, they could have speech translated to text, keyword ranges extracted, with person detection (which of course already exists), people identified and named, emotions detected (with their most recent acquisition) and the content of b-roll labelled. All with just a simple import. And probably even more.

It’s not automated editing, but it would be a brilliantly good start on organization. Add some basic string-out building algorithms and there’s a basic starting point for e.g. non-scripted shows with EVEN LESS organizational time required as there is already with X.

I can only see Apple, of all the NLE makers, in that very unique position. We'll see if they carry through on any or even part of it any time soon.

- RK

____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich!


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Martin Fox
Re: Where is an editing program with Automated Speech Recognition?
on Jun 22, 2017 at 4:07:46 am

Digital Anarchy Transcriptive Was shown at NAB this year
http://www.newsshooter.com/2017/04/27/digital-anarchy-transcriptive-nab-201...
Looks pretty good, using web based transcription


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greg janza
Re: Where is an editing program with Automated Speech Recognition?
on Jun 22, 2017 at 7:40:43 pm

I'm currently using the Digital Anarchy Transcriptive plugin and I'll say it's a giant leap forward in the transcription world.

The plugin works in tandem with two voice recognition engines that are web-based. The main one is speechmatics and so far the accuracy rate for the interviews I've tried is about 90%. And the cost is so low to make use of their voice recognition software that there will eventually be no need for human transcription services in the very near future.

I Hate Television. I Hate It As Much As Peanuts. But I Can’t Stop Eating Peanuts.
- Orson Welles


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Michael Phillips
Re: Where is an editing program with Automated Speech Recognition?
on Jun 28, 2017 at 11:56:50 pm

Another solution to consider:




Michael


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Robin S. Kurz
Re: Where is an editing program with Automated Speech Recognition?
on Jun 29, 2017 at 8:55:58 am

[Michael Phillips] "Another solution to consider:"

I'd say that's the app greg was referring to, yes.

And then there's this as well…







… both of which are of course not out yet.

- RK

____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich!


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greg janza
Re: Where is an editing program with Automated Speech Recognition?
on Jun 29, 2017 at 3:11:34 pm

[Robin S. Kurz] "I'd say that's the app greg was referring to, yes."

no, I'm using Digital Anarchy's Transcriptive plugin which is currently only available for Premiere but which I believe will eventually be available for FCPX as well.

There'll be a number of these transcription plugins coming out because these plugins are using a web based transcription engine to do all of the heavy lifting. For those curious, create an audio file of an interview and then go to speechmatics.com and upload your file and test it out.

The scribeomatic plugin looks cumbersome and slow from the demo so I'm not sure that's going to be the best option for FCPX users.

I Hate Television. I Hate It As Much As Peanuts. But I Can’t Stop Eating Peanuts.
- Orson Welles


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Robin S. Kurz
Re: Where is an editing program with Automated Speech Recognition?
on Jun 29, 2017 at 5:16:25 pm
Last Edited By Robin S. Kurz on Jun 29, 2017 at 5:38:05 pm

[greg janza] "The scribeomatic plugin looks cumbersome and slow"

You caught that it's a super early BETA, right? Hardly something to judge a (nonexistent) final by, let alone make any sort of no-nonsense value assessment.

- RK

____________________________________________________
Deutsch? Hier gibt es ein umfassendes FCP X Training für dich!


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greg janza
Re: Where is an editing program with Automated Speech Recognition?
on Jun 29, 2017 at 6:26:22 pm

Digital Anarchy's plugin is also basically in beta so we're in early stage development of this technology overall.

I Hate Television. I Hate It As Much As Peanuts. But I Can’t Stop Eating Peanuts.
- Orson Welles


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Where is an editing program with Automated Speech Recognition?
on Jun 29, 2017 at 7:51:34 pm

SpeedScriber is also in Beta.


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