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Oliver Peters
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot trailer
on Dec 18, 2015 at 2:41:21 am

First trailer is out for the next film from the "Focus" team. Edited on FCP X.







- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Whiskey Tango Foxtrot trailer
on Dec 18, 2015 at 4:05:14 am

It's a very good trailer... And the movie is a terrific idea, and looks like excellent execution as well. It's simple cuts and dissolves, and could have been cut on any editing system.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist & Workflow Consultant
David Weiss Productions
Los Angeles


David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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Bret Williams
Re: Whiskey Tango Foxtrot trailer
on Dec 18, 2015 at 4:15:19 am

I heard the big green ratings screen at the front was a free motion template. Really streamlined the whole process.


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Bill Davis
Re: Whiskey Tango Foxtrot trailer
on Dec 18, 2015 at 5:37:34 am
Last Edited By Bill Davis on Dec 18, 2015 at 5:48:51 am

Yep, it sure could have been cut on anything.

But then again, they decided to cut this movie on the same software they used to cut their last feature film, because they liked way it worked for them last time around, and that made them elect to use it again.

With all those millions of dollars on the line - If the team had struggled with the workflow for Focus, I suspect they would have changed this time around.

But they didn't.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Tim Wilson
Re: Whiskey Tango Foxtrot trailer
on Dec 18, 2015 at 7:03:01 am

[Bill Davis] "If the team had struggled with the workflow for Focus, I suspect they would have changed this time around.

But they didn't."


Quite the contrary.

I've mentioned that I've started working on a story with Glenn Fiacarra, one of the directors of both focus and WTF. In fact, the interview was ostensibly going to be about Focus, but he was so excited about what they were able to do with FCPX on WTF that that was pretty much all he wanted to talk about.

His excitement was positively leaping through the wires, and not at all in some fanboy way. He was just THAT excited about what he and the team was able to accomplish, and already dropping hints about how much further they're taking to take FCPX workflow on the feature after this.

Make no mistake: FCPX was in no way peripheral or incidental or anything other than precisely at the heart of what embodied their on-set vision.

Now that this trailer is out, I'm going to go ahead and put this article at the very very top of the list of things I'm not getting done. LOL Look for it next week.


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Michael Aranyshev
Re: Whiskey Tango Foxtrot trailer
on Dec 18, 2015 at 9:46:15 am

It will be an interesting read. More so because the two impressions I got from Focus workflow presentation was Sync-n-Link X is a great piece of software and they had an obscene amount of time to prepare the footage.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Whiskey Tango Foxtrot trailer
on Dec 18, 2015 at 12:15:33 pm

[David Roth Weiss] "It's simple cuts and dissolves, and could have been cut on any editing system."

Next up: iMovie.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Whiskey Tango Foxtrot trailer
on Dec 18, 2015 at 1:08:50 pm
Last Edited By Oliver Peters on Dec 18, 2015 at 1:13:40 pm

Remember this is a trailer. It was probably cut by a trailer company by a completely different editor and a completely different system. Unless it was Charlie, odds are it wasn't cut with FCP X. So I wouldn't use the trailer as any sort of a guide as to the cutting of the film.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Oliver Peters
Re: Whiskey Tango Foxtrot trailer
on Dec 18, 2015 at 1:16:53 pm

Regarding workflow, remember that "Focus" lived through the shift to a unified library structure within X and a lot of learning curves with new workflows. I'm sure this workflow will be a whole lot smoother.

Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Whiskey Tango Foxtrot trailer
on Dec 18, 2015 at 1:31:44 pm

But the movie was cut in X, not just any editing system, like iMovie.

It's only cuts and dissolves, you know?

There isn't any VFX (temp or otherwise), or sound design and hand off, or collaboration with any other artist like color grading because you know, cameras are so good these days you can just nail the quality right through the lens, and master all the effects optically. Who cares where it's edited or how those decisions are made, you know? Who cares about staying organized through the insular process of editing? It's so easy to shoot and edit a movie these days because when it comes down to it, it's only cuts and dissolves!


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Bret Williams
Re: Whiskey Tango Foxtrot trailer
on Dec 18, 2015 at 7:12:59 pm

Spoiler alert, I'm not sure I saw a single soft edge wipe in Star Wars today.


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Tim Wilson
Re: Whiskey Tango Foxtrot trailer
on Dec 18, 2015 at 8:20:43 pm

[Bret Williams] "Spoiler alert, I'm not sure I saw a single soft edge wipe in Star Wars today."

Dude, watch again! They were there!

Almost the only good part of the movie. LOL


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Bret Williams
Re: Whiskey Tango Foxtrot trailer
on Dec 18, 2015 at 8:28:09 pm

I figured they were! Just don't remember. I think Apple is suing them over their use of the word force...


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Tim Wilson
Re: Whiskey Tango Foxtrot trailer
on Dec 18, 2015 at 8:27:21 pm
Last Edited By Tim Wilson on Dec 18, 2015 at 8:27:54 pm

[Bret Williams] "Spoiler alert, I'm not sure I saw a single soft edge wipe in Star Wars today."

Dude, watch again! They were there!

Almost the only good part of the movie. LOL



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Scott Witthaus
Re: Whiskey Tango Foxtrot trailer
on Dec 18, 2015 at 1:45:22 pm

[David Roth Weiss] " It's simple cuts and dissolves, and could have been cut on any editing system."

Yeah, right. So is the vast majority of videos and films. What's your point with this?

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Oliver Peters
Re: Whiskey Tango Foxtrot trailer
on Dec 18, 2015 at 4:08:29 pm

These days, there really is no such thing as a simple cuts and dissolves film. Even small indie films can have as many as 100 visual effects shots. However, as with most features, the toughest part is often managing all the audio sources and temp effects/music in post.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Whiskey Tango Foxtrot trailer
on Dec 18, 2015 at 5:23:34 pm

The trailer is in fact just cuts and dissolves - the movie itself is a whole different kettle of fish. For that matter, do we even know who cut the trailer? For all we know, it may have been cut by Trailer Park on an Avid.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist & Workflow Consultant
David Weiss Productions
Los Angeles


David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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Neil Goodman
Re: Whiskey Tango Foxtrot trailer
on Dec 18, 2015 at 7:24:38 pm

Trailer was done out of house. Few different vendors worked on it as per usual with most Hollywood studio flicks.


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Tim Wilson
Re: Whiskey Tango Foxtrot trailer
on Dec 18, 2015 at 8:30:56 pm

As a reminder about what does and does not constitute a simple cuts-only movie, take a look again at the breakdown for Wolf of Wall Street. Virtually every shot in the movie is a VFX shot.








And since I've been hyping my own interview with Glenn Fiacarra talking about his team's use of FCPX for onset previz, it's also worth remembering that Rob Legato used After Effects + mocha pro for the same thing.

Which underscores the point that pretty much any combination of tools can accomplish pretty much anything. These stories are much more about the artists than their tools -- which are not by any means irrelevant, mind you, but they really are USER stories.

And they really aren't cuts-only movies. :-)


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Bret Williams
Re: Whiskey Tango Foxtrot trailer
on Dec 18, 2015 at 8:44:37 pm

Nice! I love this kinda stuff. But what the hell were those guys playing on the tennis court? Wasn't tennis that's for sure.


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Whiskey Tango Foxtrot trailer
on Dec 18, 2015 at 9:00:48 pm

[Tim Wilson] "And they really aren't cuts-only movies. :-)"

No one ever said the movie was cuts only Tim - I said "the trailer" was cuts and dissolves.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist & Workflow Consultant
David Weiss Productions
Los Angeles


David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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Scott Witthaus
Re: Whiskey Tango Foxtrot trailer
on Dec 20, 2015 at 1:50:55 pm

[Oliver Peters] "These days, there really is no such thing as a simple cuts and dissolves film."

Of course, but the majority of that comes after the story is cut...in the finishing process. While there may be a lot of VFX and image tweaks, the underlying story by the editor is mainly cuts and dissolves, correct? At least that has been my experience and workflow.

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


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Oliver Peters
Re: Whiskey Tango Foxtrot trailer
on Dec 20, 2015 at 1:58:47 pm

[Scott Witthaus] "Of course, but the majority of that comes after the story is cut...in the finishing process."

Actually no. Many films incorporate visual effects right into the cutting of the film. Fincher's guys stabilize everything, so nearly every shot is a VFX shot. It's quite common for editors to comp two shots together to create "invisible" split screens. These shots may be finessed in "finishing", but the create decisions in the cut are based on whether or not the effects that the editor temped together work or not.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Whiskey Tango Foxtrot trailer
on Dec 20, 2015 at 3:37:49 pm

There are so many shots that require at least a modicum of VFX even on the smallest of movies, and editors can start to rough these shots in for the early review stages.

Editing is much more than cuts and dissolves as the tools are getting more capable, well at least some of the tools are becoming more capable.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Whiskey Tango Foxtrot trailer
on Dec 20, 2015 at 4:59:50 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Editing is much more than cuts and dissolves as the tools are getting more capable, well at least some of the tools are becoming more capable."

I completely agree, but in a philosophical sense, the "cut" is the essence of all filmmaking, whether we are talking about commercials, corporate videos or feature films. The information that the editor uses to inform the cut is critical. Therefore, the tools that the software offers the editor to make that decision-making process easier are important. To say something is just "cuts and dissolves" tends to miss the point.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Whiskey Tango Foxtrot trailer
on Dec 20, 2015 at 5:55:30 pm
Last Edited By David Roth Weiss on Dec 20, 2015 at 5:59:06 pm

The trailer is terrific because the people who cut the trailer are expert at crafting trailers. If anyone thinks FCPX gets credit for making the trailer better, we should probably mention the cleaning crew and the company who roasted the coffee the editors drank too, because they also contributed to the final product.

Now, if the context of this thread was really about the making of the movie, and the making most movies today, NOT the trailer, I would agree that even those films we don't think of as using "visual effects," do in fact use many more processed shots and VFX than similar films of the past. However, since I'm the person who first brought up the cuts and dissolves part of the discussion in the first place, I can say definitively, I was referring to the trailer ONLY, period end of story. Is that clear enough?

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist & Workflow Consultant
David Weiss Productions
Los Angeles


David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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Bill Davis
Re: Whiskey Tango Foxtrot trailer
on Dec 20, 2015 at 6:19:42 pm
Last Edited By Bill Davis on Dec 20, 2015 at 6:24:27 pm

As often happens here, whatever the OP was thinking about isn't necessarily what the group decides to zero in on and discuss.

It would be a interesting thought experiment to imagine what we'd be saying if, in the seminal days of moviemaking, It hadn't been sharp knives cutting celluloid - but maybe some heat system that merged two images in the form of a dissolve. Would then the cross-fade have become the "default" standard for scene transitions in the same way appreciate the cut today? Or was Mr. Murch correct that we are hard-wired to need a thing that simulates "blinking" as a natural way to transition scene to scene? It's nature or nurture again...are we conditioned as to how we view the transition, or is it something more than that? Fun questions.

To me ALL the trailer's appearance clearly and unquestionably signaled is that the Focus teams move to FCP X gave them them capabilities that made them want to use it again.

Clearly that vaporizes the arguments of anyone stuck in any camp arguing that it's not viable professional production software at every level. And anyone who argues that is simply wrong. Not a good fit for a task or an editors style? Sure. That should go without saying. Preferences matter.

But ALL we're left with is preferences. Which are fine. But I do suspect, dependent largely on conditioning - not in the native superiority of EITHER the old way or the new way of editing stuff.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Oliver Peters
Re: Whiskey Tango Foxtrot trailer
on Dec 20, 2015 at 7:08:08 pm

[Bill Davis] "As often happens here, whatever the OP was thinking about isn't necessarily what the group decides to zero in on and discuss. "

LOL. Since I started the thread, let me be clear that my intent had nothing to do with the trailer. It's just that for right now, that's all there is to show. I just wrapped a feature that I started on FCPX 2 1/2 years ago and I can assure you the trailer has little to do with the film. ;-)

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Whiskey Tango Foxtrot trailer
on Dec 20, 2015 at 7:52:03 pm

Im cutting a BTS of a feature and I just painted a spider out of a window from some of the supplied footage from the movie. My guess is that take won't make the final film, but it's in a version given to me that I have to use, so I make the best of what I have and paint out a rogue spider.

Since this is, in effect, a long trailer for the movie, I am working beyond cuts and dissolves, even in the trailer.

I would imagine that the trailer for WTF had similar work to do. The movie isn't out until April, I would think that all of the effects seen in the trailer aren't quite complete. Who knows what the trailer company did or what was supplied, but I imagine some work had to be done that wasn't quite in the supplied footage.


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Whiskey Tango Foxtrot trailer
on Dec 20, 2015 at 8:06:47 pm

Don't forget to thank your mom for giving birth to you Jeremy, because your trailer would certainly not be as good without her contribution.

And yes, editors today do have many more tools built-in to our NLEs today and at our disposal than ever before, and that trend will continue. On the other hand, on average most editors still use just 2% of the tools available in their NLEs.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist & Workflow Consultant
David Weiss Productions
Los Angeles


David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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Jeremy Garchow
Re: Whiskey Tango Foxtrot trailer
on Dec 20, 2015 at 9:47:06 pm

[David Roth Weiss] "Don't forget to thank your mom for giving birth to you Jeremy, because your trailer would certainly not be as good without her contribution"









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Jarrod Fay
Re: Whiskey Tango Foxtrot trailer
on Dec 20, 2015 at 9:58:04 pm

FCPX is only used in short-form pieces...

It's being used in documentaries...

Well, nobody cuts features with it...

It was used in these features...

Well, they could have been cut with any NLE...

I guess you're right, time to sign up for CC.

---> Jarrod


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Whiskey Tango Foxtrot trailer
on Dec 20, 2015 at 10:02:09 pm
Last Edited By David Roth Weiss on Dec 21, 2015 at 12:03:59 am

Good one Jeremy...

And, quite appropriate, as I did the color correction on the "making of" video on the Menace II Society bluray. Check it out here: http://www.drwfilms.com/gangstavision.html.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist & Workflow Consultant
David Weiss Productions
Los Angeles


David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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Claude Lyneis
Re: Whiskey Tango Foxtrot trailer
on Dec 21, 2015 at 7:59:31 pm

For the contingent of editors that stick to the "you can't make a feature film in FCPX", I am reminded of the Flat Earth Society who drew large crowds in England in the 1850's.

Thanks, Oliver for putting up the trailer. It was fun to watch and made me think it would be a good movie to go to. Mission accomplished.


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Gregor Queck
Re: Whiskey Tango Foxtrot trailer
on Dec 21, 2015 at 9:25:51 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] "Im cutting a BTS of a feature and I just painted a spider out of a window from some of the supplied footage from the movie. My guess is that take won't make the final film, but it's in a version given to me that I have to use, so I make the best of what I have and paint out a rogue spider. "

No, not the spider! That was the quintessence of the film and without it nobody can possibly understand anything. At all!


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Michael Phillips
Re: Whiskey Tango Foxtrot trailer
on Dec 21, 2015 at 11:01:38 pm

Imagine the water cooler talk in 1974 when this was released:

https://www.questia.com/magazine/1P3-1308988321/the-new-magnasync-moviola-m...


:)


Michael


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Bill Davis
Re: Whiskey Tango Foxtrot trailer
on Dec 22, 2015 at 12:32:54 am

Orson, baby, I'm not really getting the whole sleigh thing and I'm afraid the audience won't either. That was WAY back it the first reel. Probably nobody will remember. Can't we lose it?

; )

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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