FORUMS: list search recent posts

Metaphors and terminology

COW Forums : Apple Final Cut Pro X Debates

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Oliver Peters
Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 16, 2015 at 7:55:57 pm

The "dissolve" sidetrack in the "Hate and Love" thread got me thinking about the terminology and metaphors we use in editing and how imperfect they are.

For example, we still refer to "offline" and "online" editing, even though those terms loosely originated from computer lingo. Personally, I think "creative" and "finishing" is more apt these days. We also talk about "linear" and "nonlinear" editing, even though most new editors really have no clue why. Remember most entering editors these days haven't even as much as copied one VHS tape to another or an LP to an audio cassette. Therefore the concepts of traditional tape-based ("linear") editing are completely foreign. In the college editing classes I've taught, I often find that students incorrectly associate traditional film editing as a "linear" editing process, because of the nature of assembling a reel of edited film. Even though, all active editors would typically consider film editing as "nonlinear".

FCPX to me seems to be much closer to a film-style of editing than do previous NLEs, but I'm sure others disagree. Of course, we'd both be right - or wrong - since the comparisons are imperfect at best. I just wonder what others think about this and FCPX's positioning versus "establish" concepts, terms, analogies, and metaphors.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 17, 2015 at 2:57:38 am

I think Shakespeare said it best when there's a thin line between love and roses.

Or was it Radio Raheem that said, A hate by another name would still smell as sweet?

I don't know.

I have had zero problems with the name changes in X with all my collaborators. The trick is to know your audience. Actually, using the words "send me your Project" continues to makes sense. I know this forum has talked about it before, but I think Apple was right to buck convention. Even through a very public berating of FCPX, a lot of the core editing concepts released on that fateful day in June 2011 have largely remained unchanged (a lot has changed with the app, and the core concepts have now taken on new and deeper meanings, but the timeline is still trackless). I think Apple engineers and product managers are sticking to this design, at least for a while.

It happens in other places, too. For instance in Prelude, the Rough Cut isn't really a rough cut, it's an assembly/string out at best, and nowhere near what I would consider a rough cut form in today's terminology and expectation levels.

You could say similar things about the meaning of the word "reel", yet it persists.

I don't know how you feel, but things have changed in this business and I think it's OK to change some of the terminology to suit those changes.

I know I bring this up a lot, but all I have to do is look at my 3 year old and see where he is starting from and the tools that will be available to interact with and make sense of, the issues of his time for better or worse, hopefully better.

When I was born, almost everything was shot on film. When my dad was born, everything was shot on film. While quality and color improved, the medium and shorthand still remained largely unchanged between those times. The same is simply untrue between my son and me. There is a massive gap between three year old me, and my three year old son. Communication has completely changed and is greatly accelerated, and if one believes film (the Royal use of the word film) is a language or perhaps a form of cultural communication, then of course, the tools and terminology will change with it and of course they should change with it.

I don't know if X was conceived to deal with any of that, my guess is not really, but the termoninology changes do make sense to me on a purely philosophical level, even if they don't necessarily work for everyone on a literal level.


Return to posts index

Noah Kadner
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 17, 2015 at 6:45:13 am

A lot of editors argue "Bins" are more appropriate than "Events." And yet when was the last time you hung a strip of celluloid over a canvas bin? "Decades ago" or "never" are the most common answers.

That versus capturing media from an event of some sort: commercial, concept, feature film, etc with a camera. The real challenge/annoyance is that different applications use different terms to refer to essentially similar functionality and that's confusing.

Noah

FCPWORKS - FCPX Workflow
FCP eXchange - FCPX Workshops


Return to posts index


Andrew Kimery
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 17, 2015 at 9:16:26 am

[Noah Kadner] "A lot of editors argue "Bins" are more appropriate than "Events." And yet when was the last time you hung a strip of celluloid over a canvas bin? "Decades ago" or "never" are the most common answers. "

A bin, like a folder, is a container you put things in so putting virtual media in a virtual container is a an analogy that's easy for most people to follow. Especially since folders, desktops, windows, etc., have been a part of the computing experience for decades now.

On the flip side, to most people an event is a thing that happens, not a place you store stuff. For example, I shot footage of an event and stored that footage in a bin. Computers don't technically need virtual containers to hold virtual stuff so one could argue that the Events in X remove a layer of unnecessary abstraction tied to days-gone-by, but on the flip side why toss a way of approaching things that is already accepted and widely understood?

For example, X still uses things like sprocket holes and a razor blade icon because those bits of skeuomorphic UI design still effectively communicate the desired information to the user.


[Noah Kadner] "The real challenge/annoyance is that different applications use different terms to refer to essentially similar functionality and that's confusing."

Like 'project'? ;)


Return to posts index

Herb Sevush
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 17, 2015 at 2:10:25 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "For example, X still uses things like sprocket holes and a razor blade icon because those bits of skeuomorphic UI design still effectively communicate the desired information to the user."

This.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


Return to posts index

Scott Witthaus
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 17, 2015 at 3:06:54 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "why toss a way of approaching things that is already accepted and widely understood?"

Does the "I would have built a faster horse" analogy work here? ;-)

IMHO, those older terms we used in Avid, EMC and the like were pretty damn new too at one point, but we seemed to get over that pretty well....

Scott Witthaus
Senior Editor/Post Production Supervisor
1708 Inc./Editorial
Professor, VCU Brandcenter


Return to posts index


Herb Sevush
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 17, 2015 at 3:35:29 pm

[Scott Witthaus] "Does the "I would have built a faster horse" analogy work here? ;-)"

Yes, but then you have to establish that you are clearly much faster, otherwise you are just a horse of a different color.

[Scott Witthaus] "those older terms we used in Avid, EMC and the like were pretty damn new too at one point, but we seemed to get over that pretty well...."

Both Avid and EMC used existing terminology as much as possible to smooth the transition for film and linear tape editors. Since the technology was so totally different they wanted to hand-hold the new users as much as possible. With FCPX, since the technology is only subtly different Apple seems to want to use new terminology to emphasize those differences.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


Return to posts index

Tim Wilson
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 17, 2015 at 6:04:40 pm

[Herb Sevush] "[Scott Witthaus] "Does the "I would have built a faster horse" analogy work here? ;-)"

Yes, but then you have to establish that you are clearly much faster."


At least we have a way to assess the speed of horses for the tasks that mean the most when one is talking about "speed" and "horses."

"Well, he runs about the same speed as any other horse, but you should see how fast he eats."


Return to posts index

Phil Lowe
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 17, 2015 at 10:53:45 am

[Noah Kadner] "The real challenge/annoyance is that different applications use different terms to refer to essentially similar functionality and that's confusing.
"


For some reason, I seriously doubt Avid and Adobe are going to bend to Apple's new nomenclature just to avoid confusion. ;)


Return to posts index


Michael Hancock
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 17, 2015 at 6:46:34 pm

[Noah Kadner] "That versus capturing media from an event of some sort: commercial, concept, feature film, etc with a camera. "

This is why I disagree that Event is a good naming convention. It implies an actual event, captured with a camera or other recording device. I find that overly restrictive. What about everything else that goes into an edit? Music selects, SFX, graphic renders, VFX shots, your sequences and versioning. Are those all events, as the name implies?

You could argue that graphic renders are an Event that happened, but it's awkward and isn't really accurate. The graphic is just an asset that needs to be stored somewhere in the NLE. Like a folder. Or a bin, which you can think of as a large container that stores your assets. Although folder would probably make more sense if we're changing the nomenclature to reflect the new digital, computer age and not something that heralds back to the film days.

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


Return to posts index

Charlie Austin
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 17, 2015 at 7:42:24 pm

[Michael Hancock] "Although folder would probably make more sense if we're changing the nomenclature to reflect the new digital, computer age and not something that heralds back to the film days."

Or, if we're really being all modern and digital, we could maybe use something like keyword collection or tag. :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


Return to posts index

Michael Hancock
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 17, 2015 at 8:06:30 pm

[Charlie Austin] "Or, if we're really being all modern and digital, we could maybe use something like keyword collection or tag. :-)"

You jest, but that's not accurate either. A Keyword Collection is something new - it's a collection of assets that have specific keywords attached to them. An event can have assets that have keywords and assets that do not have keywords. But a keyword collection cannot have assets that do not have the keywords. Keyword collections are subsets of data.

I suppose Apple could have called events Keyword Collections, but how do they further sub-categorize things the way keyword collections currently do? Perhaps keywords would become tags?

It doesn't get much simpler and easy to understand than folder. Or bucket. Or bin. Or container. They all do the same thing - they hold assets, and nothing more. It's the new stuff (keywords) that deserve the new names because they add a functionality that isn't really present in other NLEs. But Event? It's just a bin and does nothing more than what a bin currently does in any other NLE, so the name change is unnecessary.

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


Return to posts index


Bill Davis
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 17, 2015 at 8:30:35 pm

[Michael Hancock] "But Event? It's just a bin and does nothing more than what a bin currently does in any other NLE, so the name change is unnecessary."

I wonder if part of this discussion comes from the parallel change in media acquisition during the same period.

NLEs do not develop in a vacuum, obviously.

When film and tape ruled the world - REEL was understood simply.

But attach a camera with internal RAM, some form of NAND chip, a hard drive - or (who knows!) a future 3-dimentional bubble memory bit bucket - to a new workflow and all you get is confusion.

My "acquisition bucket" today might contain content from a dozen projects shot on a dozen days with a dozen different cameras at a dozen different frame rates.That's NOT a REEL in any functional sense.

My personal opinion is that the language change at Apple was the result of a good bit of debate between a lot of smart and experienced NLE interface designers and was - at the end of the day - the best result they could get out of a bunch of internal discussions.

That the result didn't satisfy everyone is a big DUH, in my mind. Theres no way it EVER could. (Particularly since those discussions happened largely in an environment of all the seething discomfort and angst with the EOL of Legacy.)

In the end, they kept some things intact for the traditionalists (e.g. Reel # in the database.) And in other areas they were content to signal that it might NOT be wise to approach the Primary Storyline as "just" the exact equivalent of "my timeline."

That's how it seems to me, looking back.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


Return to posts index

Craig Alan
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 19, 2015 at 6:35:53 am

FCP X also has "folders".
You can store many actual events and/or imports in one "Event".
Events can get cluttered, though FC allows you to sort an Event in many useful ways.
Not sure what a Gear has to do with sorting things but Apple has been very consistent in its use among many different apps.
And the most recent add-on was the "Smart Collections" which breaks things down into different media types/components regardless of the Event they are stored in. That is useful!
"Smart" reminds me of the "Genius" Bar in Apple Stores. Hyped and condescending.
"Collections", on the other hand, is truly intuitive.
FC's Event is also a collection of media. And it could be quite a random collection of media.
The Icon for the smart collection looks like a folder. It's one level down from the Library; yet, as far as I can tell, all other folders need to be inside an EVENT.

FC refers to both "project" and "timeline" and I still don't get the difference. Timeline to me is brilliant naming. I like that it is a standard. Standards are good. How convenient is it that all cameras use the same size threads to allow mounting on any type of support.

NLE's are not unique in their lack of naming standards. Every digital device we use seems to reinvent the interface and its labels. Creating a constant learning curve.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


Return to posts index

Kripá Pizzorno
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 24, 2015 at 8:30:30 am

Just a minor clarification: what you're talking about are "Library Smart Collections," introduced in 10.2. Standard Smart Collections can still be created at the Event level. They both can be extremely useful, depending on your needs.


Return to posts index


Craig Alan
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 24, 2015 at 5:44:50 pm

Yes, the SMART COLLECTIONS library one is created by default. For projects with a relatively small list of imports and media types, it's very useful, saves a bit of end user organization while at the same time demonstrating the use of metadata sorting. And if you have your own way to organize its easy enough to delete.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


Return to posts index

Herb Sevush
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 17, 2015 at 2:13:40 pm

[Jeremy Garchow] " all I have to do is look at my 3 year old and see where he is starting from and the tools that will be available to interact with and make sense of, the issues of his time for better or worse, hopefully better."

My how time passes. I remember in the early days of this forum when you were still expecting. No wonder you don't post that much anymore - a 3 year old is a handful. Delightful, magical, full of wonder - but definitely a handful.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


Return to posts index

Jeremy Garchow
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 17, 2015 at 4:24:37 pm

[Herb Sevush] "a 3 year old is a handful. Delightful, magical, full of wonder - but definitely a handful."

I am going to turn this in to a poster and hang it on the wall in his room.


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 17, 2015 at 3:25:33 pm

[Oliver Peters] "I just wonder what others think about this and FCPX's positioning versus "establish" concepts, terms, analogies, and metaphors."

The biggest challenge is the lack of translation in the User Guide. Imagine an editor coming from any other NLE trying to search for "Match Frame." It just isn't there and they have absolutely no easy way to know what the equivalent feature is in FCPX. Such editor might leave in frustration with the mistaken believe that such function doesn't exist.



Return to posts index

Don Walker
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 17, 2015 at 3:43:33 pm

[Craig Seeman] "Imagine an editor coming from any other NLE trying to search for "Match Frame." It just isn't there and they have absolutely no easy way to know what the equivalent feature is in FCPX."

One reason that the term "Match Frame" isn't there (IMHO), is that the Match Frame function as I remember from my linear/AVID/FCP7 days doesn't really exist in FCPX.

don walker
texarkana, texas

John 3:16


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 17, 2015 at 3:59:37 pm
Last Edited By Craig Seeman on Dec 17, 2015 at 4:04:30 pm

[Don Walker] " the Match Frame function as I remember from my linear/AVID/FCP7 days doesn't really exist in FCPX.
"


It's Reveal in Browser. Shift-F

Perhaps your comment makes my point.
Granted it's not quite the same thing but there's no easy way for someone to find near equivalent functions for many functions in FCPX.



Return to posts index

Don Walker
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 17, 2015 at 4:27:50 pm

[Craig Seeman] "Granted it's not quite the same thing but there's no easy way for someone to find near equivalent functions for many functions in FCPX.
"

I knew that the function was there, it's just I don't find the function nearly as useful as in other applications.

don walker
texarkana, texas

John 3:16


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 17, 2015 at 7:58:53 pm

Judging its utility is separate from finding the function itself. If one wants to find "Match Frame" in FCPX one must somehow discover that it is "Reveal in Browser."

The frame and clip it matches to could be improved and the lack of "Reverse Match" (Reveal in StoryLine?) are certainly subject to debate but that's outside the scope of the language which is the subject of this thread.



Return to posts index

James Culbertson
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 17, 2015 at 5:47:10 pm

[Craig Seeman] "[Oliver Peters] "I just wonder what others think about this and FCPX's positioning versus "establish" concepts, terms, analogies, and metaphors."

The biggest challenge is the lack of translation in the User Guide. Imagine an editor coming from any other NLE trying to search for "Match Frame." It just isn't there and they have absolutely no easy way to know what the equivalent feature is in FCPX. Such editor might leave in frustration with the mistaken believe that such function doesn't exist."


I remember trying to find Match Frame in FCPX. I was lucky in that I used Google instead of the User Guide. Took about 10 seconds. I can see how FCPX would be annoying to some who are attached to the older terminology. But in practice, the naming is secondary to the functionality (particularly when collaborating). If you don't let the language get in your way the adaptation process is very fast and smooth. In my case it probably helped that I had always jumped back and forth between programs like FCP Legacy and After Effects which had different terminology, so dealing with FCPX wasn't all that big a deal.


Return to posts index

Craig Seeman
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 17, 2015 at 8:09:20 pm

The problem is an someone very experienced with other NLEs has no way to find synonyms.

One should be able to search Match Frame and find Reveal in Browser.
One might search Bin and find Keyword Collection and Smart Collection.

Of course none of the above are exactly the same. It's not only new language but new features. But one should be able to use old familiar language to learn the new language.

Experienced editors jumping into FCPX can become frustrated because Apple does not include a Babel Fish.

Apple has this (FCPX for FCP7 users) but this isn't found in the iBook Store and should really be integrated into the FCPX User Guide so one can search terms and find links to the pages with the synonymous functions.
http://www.apple.com/final-cut-pro/docs/Final_Cut_Pro_X_for_Final_Cut_Pro_7...



Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 17, 2015 at 8:48:44 pm

[Craig Seeman] "One should be able to search Match Frame and find Reveal in Browser.
One might search Bin and find Keyword Collection and Smart Collection."


This is VERY true, Craig.

I'll also note that like much else in this debate, the terminology is also robustly keyed to the type of work one does most often.

Out of the 40-odd videos I created last year, probably less than half a dozen had me invoking Reveal in Finder a lot. Granted, the ones that did, it was certainly an important (heck, even critical) function. And if my work was consistently of that type, it's one of the FIRST things I'd be interested in.

But the very type of work I make the largest part of my living on has simply changed. My clients aren't looking (as much) for traditional narrative style pieces. Instead, they are asking for stuff that's all over the map. Lots of motion graphics driven projects. Convention coverage with minimal traditional narrative opportunities. Web training pieces where it's ALL just decorating a linear screen capture. And while those might find me employing Reveal in Finder occasionally, on some projects I never go there even once.

I know many editors do the same type of work day in and day out. But it's hard to argue that the universe of types of desired videos in the marketplace hasn't expanded mighty. So a feature like Match Frame has what I'd call an evolving constituency. In one group, it's needed daily and absolutely mission critical. In another, it sits on the shelf most of the time.

I just see visual editing (it's really not just *video* editing any longer) as a massive, diverse and rapidly evolving target in the modern world.

FWIW.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


Return to posts index

Herb Sevush
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 18, 2015 at 3:08:53 am

[Bill Davis] "So a feature like Match Frame has what I'd call an evolving constituency. In one group, it's needed daily and absolutely mission critical. In another, it sits on the shelf most of the time."

But isn't that true of most edit functions? Sometimes I need to copy and move entire scenes within a timeline, sometimes I don't. Sometimes I need to color correct, sometimes I don't. Sometimes I need to nest timelines, sometimes I don't. Sometimes I need to export to multiple formats, sometimes I don't. Other than the top 10 or so most essential commands for editing, everything else is dependent on the nature of what you are working on. So what's the point?

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 18, 2015 at 5:47:57 am

[Herb Sevush] "So what's the point?"

Point is that in these discussion of Feature A - the thousands of eyeballs here can come away thinking - An experienced editors says Software Y doesn't do FEATURE A the "right" way - that *must* be a problem.

Sure, sometimes it is. But often it isn't. Particularly if the software does something functionally pretty close in a lot of cases that often meets the same or at least a similar need.

In this case, Match Frame and Reveal in Browser aren NOT the same - but they CAN often meet the same need with the same efficiency. Again, it depends on what you need. And probably what a particular editor is conditioned to thinking that they need.

Someone arguing that X's Reveal in Browser is the SAME as traditional MatchFrame is clearly wrong. But someone thinking from a low information position that FCP X lacks the ability to do a large part of what Match Frame is useful for is ALSO wrong.

Damn nuances.

; )

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


Return to posts index

James Culbertson
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 17, 2015 at 8:51:49 pm

[Craig Seeman] "Of course none of the above are exactly the same. It's not only new language but new features. But one should be able to use old familiar language to learn the new language."

True. In many cases, it is fairly intuitive to find equivalencies. But I've found that a quick Google search provides the answer for exceptions. Not optimal in some cases, but worth it for the value of using FCPX.


Return to posts index

Charlie Austin
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 17, 2015 at 5:27:20 pm

[Oliver Peters] "I just wonder what others think about this and FCPX's positioning versus "establish" concepts, terms, analogies, and metaphors."

I wrote a long winded opinion post about this here if you're bored. I do think it makes sense FWIW. :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


Return to posts index

Herb Sevush
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 17, 2015 at 6:37:16 pm

[Charlie Austin] "I wrote a long winded opinion post about this here if you're bored. I do think it makes sense FWIW. :-)"

Hope you don't mind me quoting from your post.

[Charlie Austin] “Library” is defined as “a collection of films, recorded music, genetic material, etc., organized systematically…”. And “Project” is defined as “an individual or collaborative enterprise that is carefully planned and designed to achieve a particular aim”. In X, I use the contents of Libraries to create my Project. Sounds right to me. Moving on…

I have one library in my house. The Library of Congress is one library. Library implies a singular all-encompassing collection. I have a video library on my computer, it contains everything in my permanent archive. I do not have many separate libraries for each didly thing I do. If I have a collection of things that I’m using to construct a singular other thing, I call that work a project - whether I have a bunch of lumber and tools to work on fixing my garage door, or whether I’m rearranging my DVD library (that’s one singular library.) All of these organized efforts are projects. So yes, let’s move on.

[Charlie Austin]First of all, “Bin” is a stupid name for what is just a folder in NLE’s like FCP 7 and Premiere. A bin is a different beast in Media Composer, but it’s still a silly name in the digital age. Without a history lesson, it’s unlikely anyone under the age of 40 knows why they’re called bins. And people in the UK probably wonder why you’d want to put all your media and cuts into something with the same name as the garbage can. Good for Apple for changing it.

So now, somehow, a sense of history is a bad thing. I suppose you type on a DVORAK keyboard. I’m fine with calling a bin a folder, either one makes sense to me. What doesn’t make sense is calling it an ”event” unless you’re a wedding videographer. As to the garbage can thing, well you lost the war, so get over it.

[Charlie Austin]In any case, “Event” is defined as “something that happens or is regarded as happening;
an occurrence,” so I think it’s a good name. If you’re cutting a feature, each event might contain a scene. But going further, an FCP X Event is much more powerful than a flat MC Bin or a folder of folders as in 7 or Premiere. Using Keyword Collections, Smart Collections, Favorites/Rejects and Folders, what can quickly become an unmanageable mess of tabs and open “bins’ and stacked windows in other NLE’s, can be very nicely contained in a single occurrence in X. An Event. :-)


It’s not a single “occurrence” because it doesn’t occur just once. Your collection of data is not something that is happening, they are objects to be acted upon. As for how unmanageable your work-space is, well maybe you should review your work habits.

[Charlie Austin]In most NLE’s you can open NLE created objects (“Sequences”, Nested Clips, and Multicam Clips) in the Timeline. That’s it. In FCP X there are multiple types of timelines.

Which some, well at least I, see as a weakness. In order to have the simplicity of a magnetic timeline to avoid clip collisions Apple created a multiplicity of everything – storylines, playheads, timelines – that introduces a whole level of complications no tracked NLE has.

Legacy had the greatest simplicity of elements of any NLE I have seen. One type of video track, one type of Audio track, one playhead, one set of tools to work with no matter if it’s audio or video. A simplified toolset that could create anything, but it required using them in complex ways.

FCPX has the most complicated toolset ever made for an NLE, but it allows you to use them in the most simple, constrained, way to accomplish your complex goals.

I find the Legacy methodology much more elegant, but that is merely personal inclination, others will disagree.

[Charlie Austin]So, when I work in FCP X, I am creating a “Project” in a timeline using “Collections” of media organized in “Events” contained within a “Library“. Seems pretty logical to me.

In a vacuum it would be. In the highly evolved world of media editing, it’s a baffling PITA.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


Return to posts index

Charlie Austin
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 17, 2015 at 7:26:33 pm
Last Edited By Charlie Austin on Dec 17, 2015 at 7:48:08 pm

[Herb Sevush] "I have one library in my house. The Library of Congress is one library. Library implies a singular all-encompassing collection."

But I think you just made my point... You may not have a lot of libraries in your house, but that's stretching it. the Library of congress would be a feature, the library in your house would be a cat video in comparison. :-) And you use the contents of these Libraries to create projects right? Strictly using the actual definitions of the words, the terms are correct.

[Herb Sevush] "So now, somehow, a sense of history is a bad thing."

Of course not, but things change. Do you call your automobile a horseless carriage? ;-)

[Herb Sevush] "What doesn’t make sense is calling it an ”event” unless you’re a wedding videographer."

Why not? if you're shooting a feature, each day on set is an "Event" which generates dailies that are associated with it. I agree it is all semantics, but event, as it's defined, is a correct term. In fairness, if you're not actually shooting and dealing with dailies then event is as accurate as bin, meaning not accurate, but it's probably more accurate than bin these days.

[Herb Sevush] "It’s not a single “occurrence” because it doesn’t occur just once. Your collection of data is not something that is happening, they are objects to be acted upon."

That's why you can have multiple Events in your Library. And Event isn't always in the present tense. I went to an event last night, it's in the past, but it was an event.

[Herb Sevush] " As for how unmanageable your work-space is, well maybe you should review your work habits."

Nothing to do with work habits, it has to do with the amount of different sources I have and how easy it is to get to them. The browser in X is exponentially more efficient than dozens of hierarchical nested folders. As I've said before, I keep X open with a mirror project when I'm in Pr because it's much quicker to find/audition stuff in X and then just go right to it in Pr. If you don't have a lot of mixed media maybe it's moot, but I have a lot of different media. Music, SFX, GFX, multiple features, dailies, VFX, reference material etc etc. X is much better for this.

[Herb Sevush] "In order to have the simplicity of a magnetic timeline to avoid clip collisions Apple created a multiplicity of everything – storylines, playheads, timelines – that introduces a whole level of complications no tracked NLE has. "

We're just gonna have to disagree on this. It's not really complicated at all once you get it, and gives you way more flexibility than any track based NLE in this regard. And in any case, Every "pro" NLE is complicated at first glance. I started cutting on MC, and used it for years, I never thought it was complicated. Now, since I don't use it regularly, when I open it it up it just baffles me. If I needed to though, It'd take a week of messing with it to become less complicated again. Like riding a bike. :-)


[Herb Sevush] "FCPX has the most complicated toolset ever made for an NLE, but it allows you to use them in the most simple, constrained, way to accomplish your complex goals.
"


And this is a bad thing? You're only constrained if you A-want to be or B-need a feature that isn't there. Which I sometimes do FWIW. X is not all rainbows and unicorns (at all), but for me there are more of these in X than other NLE's.

[Herb Sevush] "In a vacuum it would be. In the highly evolved world of media editing, it’s a baffling PITA"

No, it isn't. To me anyway. :-) EDIT: On further reflection... can we maybe just agree that all NLE's are a baffling PITA to a greater or lesser extent. ;-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


Return to posts index

Simon Ubsdell
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 17, 2015 at 9:25:45 pm
Last Edited By Simon Ubsdell on Dec 17, 2015 at 9:31:12 pm

[Charlie Austin] "Why not? if you're shooting a feature, each day on set is an "Event" which generates dailies that are associated with it. I agree it is all semantics, but event, as it's defined, is a correct term."

Do you not think there is a remote possibility that the reason they chose the word Event was to maintain continuity with iPhoto where it was and is the main organisational term ... rather than that, quite fortuitously and without remembering that they'd already coined it for iPhoto, they came up with the same naming convention because it was so obviously just right for video editing?

Simon Ubsdell
tokyo-uk.com


Return to posts index

Charlie Austin
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 17, 2015 at 9:33:52 pm

[Simon Ubsdell] "Do you not think there is a remote possibility that the reason they chose the word Event was to maintain continuity with iPhoto (and iMovie) where it was and is the main organisational term ... rather than that, quite fortuitously and without remembering that they'd already coined it for iPhoto, they came up with the same naming convention because it was so obviously just right for video editing?"

Actually, I think that's exactly what happened, :-) I'm sure they ultimately wanted it to be the same across all their "visual media" apps. I was actually going to edit my post, but now I don't need to!. lol

I still do honestly think it makes sense, in all those contexts really. But I plan to keep arguing, because it's fun. ;-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


Return to posts index

Herb Sevush
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 17, 2015 at 9:44:03 pm

[Charlie Austin] " if you're shooting a feature, each day on set is an "Event" which generates dailies that are associated with it. I agree it is all semantics, but event, as it's defined, is a correct term."

And if your building a piece using stock footage that's conceptually organized - how is that an event? If your using graphic elements - how is that an event? Sometimes "event" is applicable and sometimes it isn't. On the other hand a container - be it a folder, a bin or a garbage can - is always applicable.

[Charlie Austin] "We're just gonna have to disagree on this. "

Agreed.

[Charlie Austin] "It's not really complicated at all once you get it, and gives you way more flexibility than any track based NLE in this regard."

It IS really complicated, because the work is really complicated. Now you can either have complicated tools with simple usage, or you can have simple tools with complicated usage - to me the difference comes down to personal preference - but you can't uncomplicate a complicated process.

[Charlie Austin] "And this is a bad thing? You're only constrained if you A-want to be or B-need a feature that isn't there. Which I sometimes do FWIW. X is not all rainbows and unicorns (at all), but for me there are more of these in X than other NLE's."

As I said, it's neither good nor bad, it comes down to style and preference.

[Charlie Austin] "can we maybe just agree that all NLE's are a baffling PITA to a greater or lesser extent. ;-)"

Yes we can.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


Return to posts index

Tim Wilson
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 17, 2015 at 9:46:41 pm

[Charlie Austin] "The browser in X is exponentially more efficient than dozens of hierarchical nested folders. As I've said before, I keep X open with a mirror project when I'm in Pr because it's much quicker to find/audition stuff in X and then just go right to it in Pr. "

Paging Dr. Lawrence!

David started a terrific thread in June 2014, FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE.

Is that still the case?

Anyone else using X this way?


Return to posts index

Phil Lowe
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 18, 2015 at 8:40:00 am

[Tim Wilson] "David started a terrific thread in June 2014, FCPX Is Now A Universal Logging and Organizing Tool For Any NLE.

Is that still the case?

Anyone else using X this way?"


No, but it may very well be the best use for it of which I can think. ;)


Return to posts index

Craig Alan
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 24, 2015 at 1:03:14 am

"Library" in FCP X began as one master collection of all the projects (And I don't mean timelines) on the root level of a drive. Since this was an impractical decision from day 1, a work-around was a virtual drive in the form of sparse bundles. But at least Library was what it sounded like.

So it was originally a library of all your projects and media -- just like your mail is in a library.

Find and Open the Folder Where OS X Mail Stores Mail

To go to the folder that holds your OS X Mail messages:

Open a new window in OS X Finder.
Select Go | Go to Folder… from the menu.
​You can also press Command-Shift-G.
Type "~/Library/Mail/V3".



The only 1.5 names I like in FCP X's "Libraries" window (ok you can still open all your libraries in the libraries window.)

are folders and the new (Smart) Collection. I think smart is stupid, but 'collection' is a very easily understood name for a folder. It's the only name I know for folder that does not reference a container that has a certain form in the physical world. That said, BIN has a charm to it, referencing the history of motion pictures-a container that held film. And container would work in the same generic sense. Bundle might work.

By default an EVENT will be named with the date you are creating it. Of course events take place on a certain date. But it's very strange to create a new event in the NLE. It's even stranger to create a new "project" when really it's a timeline being used for the same project. Sure you get used to it because our mind can call anything anything but that does not mean it's a good choice.

Way before FCP X, Aperture used 'Libraries' both in the app and on the finder level and 'projects' which were folders that you could import new photos into under the same library umbrella. It made more sense than in FC but was still dicey and made it harder, not easier, for end users to control their media.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


Return to posts index

Tony West
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 19, 2015 at 3:30:43 am
Last Edited By Tony West on Dec 19, 2015 at 12:12:22 pm

[Herb Sevush] "What doesn’t make sense is calling it an ”event” unless you’re a wedding videographer. "

An "event" is simply something of importance that happens at a given place or time.

Yes, a wedding is an "event" but so is the World Series game 7. Some might be less impressed by someone covering one rather than the other, but under the definition they are both events.

The Olympics is an "event"

If a player gets traded and and there is a press conference, that is an "event"

A bin is a name for a folder that holds footage from an event you covered. Apple just short cut it and called it the "event" itself.

I don't really get the problem, because to me, Game 7 is seen by millions so it's a bigger "event" than a person's wedding.


Return to posts index

James Culbertson
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 19, 2015 at 7:22:00 pm

[Tony West] "A bin is a name for a folder that holds footage from an event you covered. Apple just short cut it and called it the "event" itself.

I don't really get the problem,..."


There is no problem. There are people who have problems. And they only have problems because of an attachment to names they have used in the past. For new editors, event makes a lot more sense than bin. I like bin better than event because of my history (first few edits were on a flatbed), but I also know that times change and you have to adapt or be left behind. I'm not going to let a word get in the way of my using a better tool.


Return to posts index

Herb Sevush
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 19, 2015 at 8:46:22 pm

[Tony West] "I don't really get the problem, because to me, Game 7 is seen by millions so it's a bigger "event" than a person's wedding."

What about a job that's composed of stock footage and graphics - what "event" is that event? The concept of "bin" or "folder" includes everything, the concept of "event" includes a lot of things, but not everything. Why, when one is already an industry standard, would you opt to change to a newer term that is less accurate in some instances?

It's not a deal breaker, but it's annoying for no purpose. If it weren't annoying, people wouldn't still be complaining 5 years later. The fact that this thread exists is proof of the problem.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 19, 2015 at 9:18:04 pm

I wasn't so much thinking about FCPX's internal names when I wrote the first post, but rather the general nature of current editing terminology. However, when you look at X's naming in particular, I agree with whoever said it earlier, that it was simply adopted to be consistent with iMovie.

If you think about how consumers use iMovie and a person's home movie organization, it is structured around "events" - birthdays, vacation trips, graduations, holidays, etc. In that, the term "event" is perfect. Remember that when we started going down this road, FCPX was bifurcated into two separate types of data files - events and projects. Once Apple integrated that into a common Library and used Event files like Avid uses Bin files (or how Avid and other NLEs use Bins within the interface), then the rationale behind why it is called an "event" no longer made sense.

I agree that a name is just a name, but trying to apply any sort of logic to why the term "event" is somehow correct, simply doesn't work, IMHO.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Tony West
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 20, 2015 at 1:12:06 pm
Last Edited By Tony West on Dec 20, 2015 at 1:16:47 pm

[Oliver Peters] " Once Apple integrated that into a common Library and used Event files like Avid uses Bin files (or how Avid and other NLEs use Bins within the interface), then the rationale behind why it is called an "event" no longer made sense."

I partly agree with this Oliver because in a way it can seem redundant.

I think it depends on how you structure it.

If the Library is Blues 15-16 season
and
one "event" is Blackhawks and the next one is Stars (being goals and hits and saves from those games) and so on with all the games, that makes perfect sense to me.



[Oliver Peters] "If you think about how consumers use iMovie and a person's home movie organization, it is structured around "events" - birthdays, vacation trips, graduations, holidays, etc. In that, the term "event" is perfect."

This is why we are on different sides of it. As a person who covers sports and large scale live "event" we were using that term "before" iMovie" came along.

When "I" hear "The Main Event" I think of Floyd Mayweather's fight or the top card. I don't think about a kids birthday parties or trips.

We used that term before they did.

see below. Now I'm not saying Apple was thinking about Blues hockey when they changed that name, but I am saying that's why it makes sense for me and I'm OK with it. And also I'm not going to see that word when I change it anyway to describe what it is.

You seem to be saying that "event" makes sense only to a person making a video about their trip, and not a person covering the NHL or concerts. I'm saying that's wrong.


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 20, 2015 at 1:54:56 pm

[Tony West] "When "I" hear "The Main Event" I think of Floyd Mayweather's fight or the top card. I don't think about a kids birthday parties or trips.......
.....and not a person covering the NHL or concerts. I'm saying that's wrong."


I get that and I agree with your rationale. However, that's the point of the terminology issue. There are all sorts of editing projects ranging from films to sports to commercials to home movies. Because Event seems very specific and therefore limited to certain genres, many think that Apple should have chosen a more generic term consistent with the editing industry. For example, I create an Event file to put only sequences (Projects) into. In that case, the term Event, doesn't seem to apply.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Tony West
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 20, 2015 at 3:01:26 pm

[Oliver Peters] " many think that Apple should have chosen a more generic term consistent with the editing industry. For example, I create an Event file to put only sequences (Projects) into. In that case, the term Event, doesn't seem to apply."

I hear you, and I have done the same thing.

In my doc I made events of each person I interviewed. Is a person an "event"? No.

While one could make the argument that they are describing "events" that happened in their lives.

I don't think it's that confusing to people using or learning the program. If it were, then I would say they messed up because it is hindering editors.

Once you know what it is, you know what it is. You aren't still wondering what it is.

I just think it's kind of nitpicky


Return to posts index

Oliver Peters
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 20, 2015 at 4:53:50 pm

[Tony West] "While one could make the argument that they are describing "events" that happened in their lives....
..... just think it's kind of nitpicky"


I agree. In the end, it's just a data file and an organizing tool within the interface. But specifics are important in UI design, so nitpicking is certainly warranted, albeit at a very, very minor level.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


Return to posts index

Craig Alan
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 20, 2015 at 7:05:12 pm

[Oliver Peters] "so nitpicking is certainly warranted, albeit at a very, very minor level."

The complete lack of standards in interface design and naming conventions is not, if you back the camera up, very minor. Its effect on the user of every digital device being used professionally, and in all appliances in our consumer lives, is an increase in learning curve and a significant lack of ergonomics. None of this is "intuitive" for most as is claimed often. It's arbitrary and often illogical.

Starting way back when "Command" on a Mac was an "Alt/opt" on a PC. At least they could agree on SHIFT and QWERTY.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 21, 2015 at 2:32:51 am

[Craig Alan] "It's arbitrary and often illogical. "

Much like language itself.

It's arbitrary and illogical that as I travel the world I have to understand "Where's the pot", "Where's the head?" "Little boys room?" "Bathroom, Restroom, WC, Loo?" PLUS similar variations in dozens of languages.

Yet, hardly anyone ever really fails get their idea across - in context.

I'm having trouble understanding the nature of the big problem here.

If you're smart enough to edit, I suspect you're smart enough to adapt to word variations - in context.

My 2 cents.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


Return to posts index

Craig Alan
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 21, 2015 at 9:27:19 am

You're not getting it. I have adjusted. And I still don't like it and would be very pleased if they just called "projects" "timelines" and just let you put imports into folders or containers or bins. At least they still called them clips. No where in my post did I say I wasn't able to learn it. My point was that it would be more ergonomic if NLE's and all digital devices had some standards. The standards should be based on the most ergonomic designs. Apple has many times improved on design elements of digital interfaces. I think FCP X has some of these as well. I like the little tail of connected clips. I like magnetism. I like P to turn it off. I don't like not having the option to have multiple tracks. Just like I like having only one viewer window except for those times when I need two and Apple put that back in. I don't mind having export presets to go to Vimeo and the like, but I don't like the interface not telling me what that codec will be or give me the option to use that preset for another destination. Calling a timeline a Project is flat out misguided. And it still is annoying that I can't have a Library without an "Event" but I can have one without a timeline. And as a result of this design choice somehow I often end up with these extra open Library and Event that I just need to get rid of before starting to edit. I'd like to be able to open FC and then select one of the recent projects I'm working on not have one open or a blank one open and have these extra steps to get rid of the extra ones. I like FCPX basic layout of its windows, but not being able to have keyboard shortcuts to rearrange them for different steps in the editing process is less ergonomic not more. Seriously that is pretty much a standard feature ... no?

Having different names for things develop due to cultural references is one thing. Renaming the components of a craft or science or tool is something else. If grips want to call an electrical extension cord a stinger and it catches on so production crew members know what that means ... that's cool. But I still want to go to home depot or even a production industry supply house and order an electrical extension cord. I want to order a battery not a brick.

Bottom line I don't mind learing something new. But I'm getting bored learning something new again and again. Opened up my notes app on my iPhone after updating IOS. Now my notes are organized by devices that I think the note was generated on. Don't get it. Annoying. Don't want to take the time to learn it. Yes I can learn it. Don't mind the new tools. Do mind the new interface.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


Return to posts index

Bill Davis
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 21, 2015 at 7:12:57 pm

[Craig Alan] "You're not getting it. I have adjusted."

I think I am. Look Craig, I TOTALLY understand that many, MANY editors don't like the way Apple changed a playing field to which they were completely accustomed. It's not that I don't get that. I do. I was accustomed to the old way as well.

What I jettisoned extremely early was any sense of aggrievement that I felt towards the changes.

If somebody wants to remain pissed at Apple for the changes they made, that's their business. Argue the terminology into the ground if you like. Be upset because they somehow aren't holding fast what you and I expected in matters of operation, language, whatever. I just think it's often a big waste of time.

I just tested my contention. Pulled out my phone. Asked Siri "What is an EVENT in FCP X?" and within a second, had 5 useful citations to read that explained things.

Terminology ignorance and even confusion is a fading problem. If I don't know what a term means IN CONTEXT - and the answer is literally 3 seconds away in my pocket - how is that anything but MY fault?

So the only thing left to argue is that my personal inconvenience trumps whatever progress the NLE designers felt they needed to make. And I simply don't agree with that.

That's all.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


Return to posts index

Craig Alan
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 21, 2015 at 11:08:22 pm

Recently watched an interview with Jonathan Ive. He made a point of saying that Apple doesn't change things just for the sake of being different but rather they think things through to be a better user experience.

They might not be doing it consciously, but all companies now-a-days have to come up with new models/versions etc every season to satisfy the bottom line even if they have nothing new of significance to offer.

Library was actually a long standing computer container that kept things hidden from the average user. It was also not as easily backed up and could become corrupted like any compex container on a computer. It was also the perfect master file name for version 1 of FCP X because all projects were contained in it at the root level of a media drive (by default the system drive). Not a good idea. Super pleased this evolved into a system that offers a great deal of control. Better I think than any finder/NLE relationship of any program I have used. (I'm not as experienced as many on this site - but I have tried MC, FCP3-7, the old iMovie, Aperture, QT pro.

I'm not hung up on FCP X's core interface, but I do think there is room for improvement and the naming conventions are one of them. It does not change anything functional to call what is now called a 'project' a "timeline" and an EVENT a media folder (my choice) or collection (very intuitive new name coming from Apple) or folder (tried and universally understood). And I think that if they added the OPTION of layers aka tracks to connected clips' abilities they would have the best of both worlds. It could replace secondary storylines which are a somewhat poor design not because it's different than FCP 7 but because it has a different set of rules and functions than the primary. I get that compounding clips fill the gap in terms of working with these components. And again compounding like nesting is a nice option. But compounds should not be the only way to allow secondary storylines to have organized complexity. If you are not ready to have them compounded, you should not be forced to do it to solve the organizational mess that is the alternative.

I also don't think that FCP X is as different as most people seem to view it. I think 99% of its form, function, and concepts are like any other NLE. After all, the edit types are the same, the end product is the same, what you import is the same, the meta data is the same. How different could it be? FCP X took some features to their next logical step - snapping became magnetic - creating a really easy rough cut experience. But working in the small bottom space of the inspector to work with audio tracks is a step back not forward. OTOH I really like the way the crop/transform tool works.

I do think FCP 7 needed an overhaul and new features. But throwing out the baby with the dirty bath water was not all good. Nor all bad. Nor do I think it was revolutionary. I do object to having years of experience with an app thrown out on a regular basis. I'm now about as comfortable with X as I was on 7. I like the rough cut better. I like teaching it better. With two tracks of audio I like it better. But once I get into three or more tracks of audio I prefer 7. And I was never completely at peace in 7 with audio. Things would get out of cync. I was hoping for a better system but feel this was one step forward ...





[Bill Davis] "TOTALLY understand that many, MANY editors don't like the way Apple changed a playing field to which they were completely accustomed"

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


Return to posts index

Tony West
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 22, 2015 at 3:41:50 pm

[Craig Alan] " an EVENT a media folder (my choice)"

Some folks might get hung up on your choice also Craig, since the word "media"s definition has to do with mass communication, television, radio and newspapers.

We started using it a different way in our biz after digital card recording.

[Craig Alan] "I also don't think that FCP X is as different as most people seem to view it. I think 99% of its form, function, and concepts are like any other NLE."

This seems like arguing both sides. If it's only 1% then that's tiny and folks are overreacting.
If it is a very disruptive act Apple made then it would seem like it is more then 1%

I like that they tried to get outside the box. They do plenty of things that I don't like also so I feel your pain.

I want to be able to block a number on my iPhone with a click. All that technology and I can't do that one thing ; )


Return to posts index

Craig Alan
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 22, 2015 at 4:56:41 pm

[Tony West] ""media"s definition has to do with mass communication, television, radio and newspapers."

point taken so skip that. Then folder or collection or bin.

[Tony West] "This seems like arguing both sides. If it's only 1% then that's tiny and folks are overreacting.
If it is a very disruptive act Apple made then it would seem like it is more then 1%"


I was playing loose with 99% but the devil is in the details and I think the sudden EOL to FCP 7 which was an industry standard and X’s initial lack of features was what caused the uproar.

Plus X was a different app. Just cause I was saying it does 99% of what all editing apps do, does not mean it does it the same way. Some features like connected clips is radically different than tracks. But its purpose is similar in that they both function as layers. Whatever is on top dominates the image and shares the audio equally. If you were a very skilled FCP 7 user or someone who slowly and painfully learned enough of FCP 7 to get the job done then it was very disruptive.

Regardless how similar a feature set might be each new app comes with a learning curve. When you've mastered a craft and trying to make art with it, it's very disruptive. If you've learned enough of a craft to express yourself and trying to be artistic, it is very disruptive. Particularly compared to everything is the same except this annoyance has been fixed and this and that has been beefed up and this new feature is new and cool. So looking forward to 64 bit FCP 8.

I think X is easier to learn but had initially more missing features than was acceptable.

My point is that X isn't all that different in function or form (once you get to know it, like any app of the same type). If Adobe had been a non-monthly bill I would have gone that route and been equally annoyed that 7 was EOL.

What I was pointing out was that the process (not the app) is the same. You import media. You organize your imports. You do a rough cut. You tweak your rough cut. You add layers/b-roll. You fix the audio. You add transitions and effects. You color correct. ETC All similar work flow just done differently or slightly differently. It's not like you've never edited before. But the learning curve is beyond an annoyance if you were already fluent with the previous app. And to have to face this on-goingly with every app you use both as a pro and as a consumer, I think is counter-productive.

I still want to send an unwanted call to voice mail or block it all together. If I knew how to do it on IOS 8 and now I'm clueless and the call is coming in when I'm in the middle of something important .... give me a break.

I'm not feeling the pain anymore. I'm as good with FCP X as I was with 7. But that took time and I really don't want to go through that again 5 years from now. I just want to use these apps and learn new ones, not learn the same ones over again all the time. Life is short. Who's serving who? Is the tail wagging the dog?

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


Return to posts index

Tim Wilson
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 22, 2015 at 5:13:37 pm

[Craig Alan] " Who's serving who?"

We're here to serve Apple. I thought that we'd settled at least THAT much. LOL


Return to posts index

Steve Connor
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 22, 2015 at 6:45:52 pm

An interesting thread and some great points, the only thing I can add is that I don't care what Apple chose to call them, it could have Hilda, Dennis and Gertrude, as far as I'm concerned. It took me about 10 mins to get used to the new names and that was that


Return to posts index

James Culbertson
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 23, 2015 at 1:42:48 am

[Steve Connor] " An interesting thread and some great points, the only thing I can add is that I don't care what Apple chose to call them, it could have Hilda, Dennis and Gertrude, as far as I'm concerned. It took me about 10 mins to get used to the new names and that was that"

Agreed.

I've been thinking about using BBedit to replace every instance of "event" in the FCPX package with "bin" and see if that actually changes things, and if FCPX still works afterwards. Easy enough to reinstall. (...only half joking.)

If Apple gave editors the ability to modify interface names like it does key commands, a lot of folks might be happier with using FCPX. ...OK, maybe not.


Return to posts index

Andrew Kimery
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 26, 2015 at 8:10:46 pm

[Tony West] "Some folks might get hung up on your choice also Craig, since the word "media"s definition has to do with mass communication, television, radio and newspapers.

We started using it a different way in our biz after digital card recording.
"


I would have to disagree with your disagreement. ;)

Media is the plural of 'medium' (such as print, oil painting, photography, radio, TV etc.,) so more than one medium used to communicate to a broad audience (aka 'the masses') gets us the phrase 'mass media communications'.

The term 'mixed media' has been around for a long time too and usually refers to using more than one medium in a visual art piece (such as mixing oil painting and photography), but mixing media is very much at the heart of editing. We'll use some combination of music, video footage, photographs, graphics, etc., in nearly every edited piece. Even a hot-off-the-presses news package will almost always have VO and/or lower thirds to accompany the footage shot in the field.

To this point, FCP Legend's Media Manager and Avid's Media Tool both predate our industry going tapeless/card-centric by a number of years. Why Media Manager and Media Tool as opposed to Footage Manager and Footage Tool? Because both of them can track many types of media used (music, graphics, photos, footage etc.,) as opposed to just a single medium (only music, only graphics, only photos, only footage, etc.,).


Return to posts index

Tony West
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 27, 2015 at 3:03:55 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "The term 'mixed media' has been around for a long time"

Some good points but yes I disagree : ) People who have never heard of the "media composer" or Legend
use the word media as another word for "the press" and they would be right because part of
the dictionary definition is "b plural : members of the mass media"

What you describe is there also, but you are outnumbered by folks that use the other definition.

My point was that "those" folks could be confused by the word being used as you described. People new to our field. They would get it as soon as it was explained to them, just as we did with event : )


Return to posts index

Andrew Kimery
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Jan 6, 2016 at 10:45:55 pm

I thought the conversation was more industry-centric so my response was in kind. After you said,

[Tony West] "We started using it a different way in our biz after digital card recording."

I assumed "we" meant people in the industry which is why I mentioned FCP Legend and MC. "We", or at least parts of "we", were using the word media to refer to media assets (as opposed to the press) long before recording to solid state cards became a thing.

[Tony West] "
Some good points but yes I disagree : ) People who have never heard of the "media composer" or Legend
use the word media as another word for "the press" and they would be right because part of
the dictionary definition is "b plural : members of the mass media"

What you describe is there also, but you are outnumbered by folks that use the other definition."


Might be a regional thing as I grew up making mixed media projects in grade school art classes as well as having access to school A/V media labs (which housed things like video equipment, not the press corps). And, to boot, 'multimedia' was a hot buzzword when I was in college.


-Andrew


Return to posts index

Tony West
Re: Metaphors and terminology
on Dec 20, 2015 at 12:34:14 pm

[Herb Sevush] " it's annoying for no purpose."

I believe that their purpose was to change it to something that they thought was more descriptive to the younger generation. You feel that they missed in that attempt and I understand that, but that is not the same thing as them not having a purpose.

They had a purpose.


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]