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Foreign Film 2016 Oscar Contender from Spain Edited in X.

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Bill Davis
Foreign Film 2016 Oscar Contender from Spain Edited in X.
on Oct 28, 2015 at 12:40:33 am
Last Edited By Bill Davis on Oct 28, 2015 at 12:43:27 am

FCP.co just posted this.

I started noting a long time ago that from what I was hearing, while the US movie industry was testing and re-testing and worrying about whether everything related to if X was "pro enough" - years ago, working editors in other countries were not quite as hesitant. And perhaps here's a bit of the result a couple of years later.

A 2016 foreign film Oscar contender - edited in X {{{PRIOR}}} to the 10.1 update!

Trailer is embedded in the story.

FWIW.

http://www.fcp.co/final-cut-pro/articles/1742-loreak-spain-s-official-submi...

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Foreign Film 2016 Oscar Contender from Spain Edited in X.
on Oct 28, 2015 at 1:46:47 am

Here we go again, if you don't like FCP X there's clearly something wrong or broken with you. In this case the entire US movie industry is just plain wrong, but the industry everywhere else has, based solely on this report, clearly got things figured out properly.

Bill, if you had simply reported the facts and left out your editorializing this story would have had at least some meaning. Now it's just another story about you and your opinions of all who don't agree with you.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist & Workflow Consultant
David Weiss Productions
Los Angeles


David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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Bill Davis
Re: Foreign Film 2016 Oscar Contender from Spain Edited in X.
on Oct 28, 2015 at 2:16:51 am
Last Edited By Bill Davis on Oct 28, 2015 at 2:45:21 am

Not going to bite.

I've never written ANYTHING like the opinions you are trying to ascribe to me in your post.

It's just a reflection of what you THINK I meant when you read what I write and spin it around inside your own head, David - and largely you are very much wrong.

Look back and you won't find a SINGLE word I've written taking anyone to task for making a different editing software decision (save my notorious opinions about the Adobe FINANCIAL model which has nothing to do with actual editing at all.)

I stand by what I *actually* said. The somewhat hysterical doom and gloom discourse about X as a "toy" program that took place here during the period this article directly addresses was flat out and demonstrably wrong. And folks who saw through it and gave the software a FAIR chance against it's equally useful competition - are experiencing success.

Now I'm going back to not paying attention to what you write here - unless as in this case you make it about me personally rather than about the opinions I'm expressing in a forum that's all about opinions.

Have a nice day.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Jim Wiseman
Re: Foreign Film 2016 Oscar Contender from Spain Edited in X.
on Oct 28, 2015 at 3:19:38 am

@David: If you don't want to hear anything positive about FCPX, I would suggest you stay on the Adobe boards. I would hope that positive as well as negative things could be said about the program under discussion here without backbiting like this. It seems to me that Bill was merely suggesting we take a look at what was done with FCPX even at a very early stage. I went to the URL and found the interview and the example video of the film quite edifying. A more positive spirit of discourse would be appreciated.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1, Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Pro X 10.2.2, Final Cut Studio 2 & 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.6, Premiere Pro CS 5 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K, Blackmagic Teranex, Avid MC: Mid 2015 MacBook Pro Retina 15": 2013 Mac Pro Hexacore, 1TB SSD, 64GB RAM, 2-D500: Helios 2 w 2-960GB SSDs: 2012 Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz, 24Gb RAM, GTX-680, 960GB SSD: Macbook Pro Retina 2015, i7, 500GB, M370X 2GB: Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 16GB RAM 250GB SSD, Multiple OWC Thunderbay 4 TB2 and eSATA QX2 RAID 5 HD systems


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Foreign Film 2016 Oscar Contender from Spain Edited in X.
on Oct 28, 2015 at 3:43:23 am

Oh! Okay Jim, I get it now... It's okay to debate here on the debate forum so long as I agree with you, otherwise I need to leave. I'm glad you explained that.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist & Workflow Consultant
David Weiss Productions
Los Angeles


David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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Jim Wiseman
Re: Foreign Film 2016 Oscar Contender from Spain Edited in X.
on Oct 28, 2015 at 7:20:27 pm
Last Edited By Jim Wiseman on Oct 28, 2015 at 7:24:00 pm

That is BS and you know it David. My only problem is with your supercilious attitude and knee jerk reactions.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1, Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Pro X 10.2.2, Final Cut Studio 2 & 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.6, Premiere Pro CS 5 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K, Blackmagic Teranex, Avid MC: Mid 2015 MacBook Pro Retina 15": 2013 Mac Pro Hexacore, 1TB SSD, 64GB RAM, 2-D500: Helios 2 w 2-960GB SSDs: 2012 Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz, 24Gb RAM, GTX-680, 960GB SSD: Macbook Pro Retina 2015, i7, 500GB, M370X 2GB: Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 16GB RAM 250GB SSD, Multiple OWC Thunderbay 4 TB2 and eSATA QX2 RAID 5 HD systems


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Foreign Film 2016 Oscar Contender from Spain Edited in X.
on Oct 28, 2015 at 9:13:45 pm
Last Edited By David Roth Weiss on Oct 28, 2015 at 9:17:18 pm

[Jim Wiseman] "My only problem is with your supercilious attitude and knee jerk reactions."

Jim, had I not earlier suggested you were "silly" because you won't pay $50/month for software which you yourself said you "prefer," I seriously doubt you'd even be writing to me now. BTW, since you explained that you're working on pro bono stuff for the most part now, that was a good enough explanation for me.

With regard to the "supercilious attitude" you've attributed to me, why not delve into the Cow archives, which, as the #6 leading Cow poster of all time, contain some 16,432 of my posts, and see how just many actual examples of supercilious posts you can actually find?

To save you the trouble Jim, what you will find in the Cow archives will be, almost exclusively, many thousands of helpful pro bono consulting and technical troubleshooting responses to Cows in need, offering my help and experience on a host of different subjects I've worked hard to understand or even master. And, you will also find many popular articles, reviews, and tutorials drawn from my 45-years of industry experience as well.

So, if you'd like to try to make a legitimate case that actually proves your assertion, I encourage you to try. Do keep in mind however, that even if you're able to find 164 examples in which you feel I've exhibited a "supercilious attitude," that would constitute less than 1% of my activity on the Cow since it's inception, which is hopefully within the bounds of correctness for most of us imperfect human beings. If you disagree, please let me know and I'll apologize openly for being less than perfect.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist & Workflow Consultant
David Weiss Productions
Los Angeles


David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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Jim Wiseman
Re: Foreign Film 2016 Oscar Contender from Spain Edited in X.
on Oct 28, 2015 at 11:43:05 pm
Last Edited By Jim Wiseman on Oct 28, 2015 at 11:56:24 pm

I'll put it as succinctly as possible David, not having the time to research all of your most probably well intentioned advice on the COW over the last many years. Yes, I was around even before the COW was called that, and I have seen and appreciated much of your writing.

I just think you and Bill have a very dysfunctional relationship and I tend to agree mostly with Bill. And I like FCPX. Very simple. I also have to add that I am loving Adobe software less and less as I widen my software bundle. Mostly though, nothing personal. Your contributions are appreciated. Apologies as warranted.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1, Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Pro X 10.2.2, Final Cut Studio 2 & 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.6, Premiere Pro CS 5 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K, Blackmagic Teranex, Avid MC: Mid 2015 MacBook Pro Retina 15": 2013 Mac Pro Hexacore, 1TB SSD, 64GB RAM, 2-D500: Helios 2 w 2-960GB SSDs: 2012 Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz, 24Gb RAM, GTX-680, 960GB SSD: Macbook Pro Retina 2015, i7, 500GB, M370X 2GB: Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 16GB RAM 250GB SSD, Multiple OWC Thunderbay 4 TB2 and eSATA QX2 RAID 5 HD systems


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Foreign Film 2016 Oscar Contender from Spain Edited in X.
on Oct 29, 2015 at 12:27:41 am

[Jim Wiseman] "Mostly though, nothing personal. Your contributions are appreciated. Apologies as warranted."

Thanks, and likewise here Jim...

Though not really necessary, I accept your apologies, and I apologize to you if I have transgressed.

It's always good to clear the air when feathers fly, because, in the end, when real bad guys come a knockin, I guarantee you, we'll be fighting side by side, and I'll have your back and you'll have mine.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist & Workflow Consultant
David Weiss Productions
Los Angeles


David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Foreign Film 2016 Oscar Contender from Spain Edited in X.
on Oct 28, 2015 at 3:50:42 am

[Jim Wiseman] " It seems to me that Bill was merely suggesting we take a look at what was done with FCPX even at a very early stage."

Then why not just post that X was used on this movie and here is a link with more info and leave it at that? Why make an unrelated comment about Hollywood if you don't want that to end up as part of the discussion too?


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Jim Wiseman
Re: Foreign Film 2016 Oscar Contender from Spain Edited in X.
on Oct 28, 2015 at 4:16:46 am

Someone has to have had their sensibilities affronted by all the negativity about X expressed almost everywhere, especially in the beginning from certain segments of the post world. This is bound to raise some emotion. I've worked in LA, SF and Chicago in broadcast and features, and sold installed and maintained over 50 Avids in Hawaii. I can understand the angst and biting of the tongue that occurs when people take a superior attitude based on the idea that one thing or another is just "the" system to use. Avid in LA, for instance, has become a self perpetuating industry. It has the great advantage in workgroups, but for the type of work that most one man bands do, or more flexible shops, I wouldn't waste my time or money on it. In LA it is a necessity, though, of course. Thankfully, most of us have more freedom of choice. Adobe, with their economic model, drove me to FCPX, and surprise, I like it.

I find Bill's sometimes emotional promotion of FCPX refreshing. It may irritate some here, but hey, we all have a style. I've found some others to be a lot more irritating. But I also find that most attempt to be elucidating. I pay attention to them and shine on the rest. Feel free to shine me on if you wish. It's only ASCII text, after all. Just scroll on by.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1, Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Pro X 10.2.2, Final Cut Studio 2 & 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.6, Premiere Pro CS 5 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K, Blackmagic Teranex, Avid MC: Mid 2015 MacBook Pro Retina 15": 2013 Mac Pro Hexacore, 1TB SSD, 64GB RAM, 2-D500: Helios 2 w 2-960GB SSDs: 2012 Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz, 24Gb RAM, GTX-680, 960GB SSD: Macbook Pro Retina 2015, i7, 500GB, M370X 2GB: Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 16GB RAM 250GB SSD, Multiple OWC Thunderbay 4 TB2 and eSATA QX2 RAID 5 HD systems


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Bill Davis
Re: Foreign Film 2016 Oscar Contender from Spain Edited in X.
on Oct 28, 2015 at 4:51:16 am

[Andrew Kimery] "Then why not just post that X was used on this movie and here is a link with more info and leave it at that? Why make an unrelated comment about Hollywood if you don't want that to end up as part of the discussion too?
"


Andrew,

Because my comment about Hollywood is in NO WAY unrelated. I got told time after time after time in discussions IN THIS FORUM that nobody in Hollywood (heck in ANY professional editing) was ever going to use X because it was fundamentally flawed software. And when I noted that it was gaining traction off-shore because that's what I was hearing at the time. Turns out what I was hearing in other places was accurate.

That's all.

That was the entire thesis of my comment. Opinions were expressed HERE two years ago. One was mine that X was a worthy (and perhaps even smart) editing option at the time.

And now we have evidence that this was true in places like Spain that were entirely off my radar.

I've never once trashed Premiere Pro or AVID or Vegas or any other actual editing approach (tho if you listen to some voices here - that's precisely the light in which they seem to be desperately trying to re-cast my writings of the time.)

I've noted time an again that I've never used those other programs so I have no informed opinion of them at all. And so I have always tried to leave that for others to argue.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Steve Connor
Re: Foreign Film 2016 Oscar Contender from Spain Edited in X.
on Oct 28, 2015 at 8:13:40 am

It's not a very detailed workflow piece and they don't talk about why FCPX was a good choice for them.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Foreign Film 2016 Oscar Contender from Spain Edited in X.
on Oct 28, 2015 at 8:50:56 am

[Bill Davis] "Because my comment about Hollywood is in NO WAY unrelated."

Maybe I'm took your previous post too literally.

I guess it's the word "worry" that lost me because Hollywood doesn't worry or care about X. Hollywood doesn't worry or care about PPro, or Resolve (as an NLE) or that much for Lightworks anymore, and, as a whole, it didn't pay a lot attention to Legend either...

If what you were trying to get across was that Hollywood doesn't use X but these guys did then I agree with you. Though if you want to talk about the movie they made and how X was involved I don't see what that has to do with Hollywood other than to illustrate that, yes, you can make a movie with X but we've already been there with Focus (which is the more notable of the two examples).

Or I am I still missing the point and this is really isn't about guys in Spain making a movie but about you being right about what you said years ago (hence the emphasis on the old version of X they used)?


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Bill Davis
Re: Foreign Film 2016 Oscar Contender from Spain Edited in X.
on Oct 28, 2015 at 5:33:31 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "Or I am I still missing the point and this is really isn't about guys in Spain making a movie but about you being right about what you said years ago (hence the emphasis on the old version of X they used)?"

Just to make it easier for you to understand, my friend, this the position I was trying to espouse in my post.l.

X has always been a vastly more capable video editing app than it has gotten credit for.

A large portion of the negativity that still surrounds its reputation is undeserved.

That message keeps getting promoted - particularly here where people like Aindreas and DRW have taken great pains over many, many months to constantly and publicly promote opinions that are contrary to the facts of it's capabilities.

And, yes, I don't like that. Precisely because I know that it works really, really well for many things that those who don't use it keep trying to tell us that it can't do.

Personal preferences are Fine. Allegations like someone saying that you can't cut professional soundtracks because it's somehow "crippled" relative to other NLEs only get corrected when interested parties can see other workflows like the one I posted - where people are regularly getting the very highest quality work done with X - a direct contradiction of the message "It's not good enough for pro work" which is constantly implied in this forum - specifically over the past few weeks and specifically in the threads negatively comparing it to Premiere - which is a fine program - but NOT IMO objectively any better or worse for high level work.

Is that any clearer for you?

I take comfort in the responses to the thread this discussion spawned as to whether X still is fighting a false impression of capability. Clearly it is. I don't care who's fault that is. It's incorrect. And I think that's worth correcting BECAUSE just like it's worthy competitors - its a great program that can help many editors have a great editing experience if they don't get scared off by misinformation.

Simple as that.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Foreign Film 2016 Oscar Contender from Spain Edited in X.
on Oct 28, 2015 at 5:52:59 pm

[Bill Davis] "X has always been a vastly more capable video editing app than it has gotten credit for.

A large portion of the negativity that still surrounds its reputation is undeserved.
.
.
.
Is that any clearer for you?"


Much, thank you. And I agree that X has never been as bad as it's most negative detractors try and paint it and that Apple getting X off on the wrong foot still negatively impacts it to this day. You don't get a second chance to make a first impress, as they say.


[Bill Davis] "a direct contradiction of the message "It's not good enough for pro work" which is constantly implied in this forum "

Outside a few posters I don't see that blanket statement here much these days. People might mention particular workflows where other NLEs might be be better options, but I think lumping the whole forum into the 'it's not good enough for pro work' category is inaccurate.


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Steve Connor
Re: Foreign Film 2016 Oscar Contender from Spain Edited in X.
on Oct 28, 2015 at 5:54:31 pm

[Bill Davis] " "It's not good enough for pro work" which is constantly implied in this forum "

I don't see this at all, hence the thread I started earlier. I do see a lot of intelligent discussion about workflow which is fascinating.


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Foreign Film 2016 Oscar Contender from Spain Edited in X.
on Oct 28, 2015 at 7:05:41 pm
Last Edited By David Roth Weiss on Oct 28, 2015 at 7:09:30 pm

[Bill Davis] "A large portion of the negativity that still surrounds its reputation is undeserved.

That message keeps getting promoted - particularly here where people like Aindreas and DRW have taken great pains over many, many months to constantly and publicly promote opinions that are contrary to the facts of it's capabilities."


Actually, that's a fabrication that mischaracterizes my messages here completely. The fact is, the majority of my posts are directed about the style (or lack of style) of the arguments here, not the capabilities of the application. As an example, in response to the question posed, doe's anyone think FCP X is not professional software, my response was: [David Roth Weiss] "There are no unprofessional NLEs."

And, with regard to the issue of the audio capabilities of X vs. Premiere as characterized in the quote below:
[Bill Davis] "Allegations like someone saying that you can't cut professional soundtracks because it's somehow "crippled" relative to other NLEs", that too is a a complete mischaracterization of that conversation. While I admit to absolutely hating the entire magnetic timeline both in concept and in practice, I never said it was crippled, never said it prevented anyone from getting their work out the door. In fact below is my summary on the topic:

[David Roth Weiss] "I would have to say in summary that, currently Adobe's implementation is in fact the better and more accurate approach to sub-frame audio editing that better emulates the sub-frame editing capabilities of a DAW. This doesn't mean that FCP X is for amateurs, or that editors using X can't produce excellent work, including audio editing and mixing inside FCP X, only that in a fair comparison of both apps, at this point Adobe has the more advanced implementation of audio editing. To be fair, it's also more expensive... But, also to be fair, with that added expense, the user also gets access to an even better audio editor (Audition), and the entire suite of additional apps as well."

In addition, as a journalist by trade, when I make a mistake or quote someone else who made a mistake, I print a retraction, because I own my words once they go to print. That's not something you typically do Bill, and if you'd like I'll point that out in spades, but I have every confidence that I won't need to, because though this post is clearly deserving of a Bill Davis retraction, I won't be holding my breath.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist & Workflow Consultant
David Weiss Productions
Los Angeles


David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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Bill Davis
Re: Foreign Film 2016 Oscar Contender from Spain Edited in X.
on Oct 29, 2015 at 4:51:10 am
Last Edited By Bill Davis on Oct 29, 2015 at 5:04:20 am

Do you think this attitude makes you somehow unique David? I spent 10 years as a contributing editor at a national video magazine - so I'm pretty conversant with journalistic ethics. But this is a Cow forum built on open debate - not exactly the same as published journalism. Neither you nor I have the luxury of a qualified editor vetting us prior to "publication." Instead we have the absolute right to blather at will and the readers get to judge the accuracy or intent of what we post without filters. I enjoy that - even when it exposes my many flaws is tone, intent and even factual precision. I know I will be called out on my flaws. As will you. So sorry, but if you somehow want to make this a "how many readers have I helped with my writing" battle - I suppose after my magazine decade I'm fine with that as well. : )

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Foreign Film 2016 Oscar Contender from Spain Edited in X.
on Oct 28, 2015 at 2:12:35 am

[Bill Davis] "while the US movie industry was testing and re-testing and worrying about whether everything related to if X was "pro enough""

The US movie industry (I assume you mean just 'Hollywood' and are excluding indies) was testing and re-testing? I thought they were just making Oscar winning movies using Avid like they have been for a couple of decades now. FCP 7 was probably the closest anyone has come to unseating Avid, but even at 7's peak Avid was still used on the majority of projects and considered the de facto NLE.

Like I said in the old FCP days, when it's no longer newsworthy that an NLE other than Avid was used to cut a Hollywood movie or big time TV show then that will be the signal X, PPro, Resolve, etc., has finally made it in Hollywood.

Of course this entire discussion is pretty much meaningless because we all know that a feature film work is irrelevant to 95% of the editors out there. ;)


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Charlie Austin
Re: Foreign Film 2016 Oscar Contender from Spain Edited in X.
on Oct 28, 2015 at 3:50:11 am

I'm starting a feature right now on this secret new version of X.



Premiere, Media Composer, the old FCP X, FCP 7 and Resolve can suck it! :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Andrew Kimery
Re: Foreign Film 2016 Oscar Contender from Spain Edited in X.
on Oct 28, 2015 at 3:52:00 am

[Charlie Austin] "I'm starting a feature right now on this secret new version of X."

Make sure you document your process on social media so we can all enjoy the time machine together. ;)


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Charlie Austin
Re: Foreign Film 2016 Oscar Contender from Spain Edited in X.
on Oct 28, 2015 at 3:55:24 am

[Andrew Kimery] "Make sure you document your process on social media so we can all enjoy the time machine together. ;)"

Oh, I will. As soon as I get my modem to work...

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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David Mathis
Re: Foreign Film 2016 Oscar Contender from Spain Edited in X.
on Oct 28, 2015 at 9:26:57 pm

OMG! Are those tracks? Looks like another piece of dinosaur technology! ;-)

The magnetic timeline, it's magnetic-o-matic!



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