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Matthew Sonnenfeld
Switching to Premiere Pro CS5.5 or Media Composer 5.5
on Jul 2, 2011 at 1:45:19 pm

So I'm definitely switching to either Premiere or Media Composer but I'm still trying to figure it out...

Obviously Premiere is more of a fluid switch for FCP users than Media Composer, but do people here think that it's better to just bite the bullet and spend more on Media Composer and take the time to learn? FCP was still gaining it's base when it came to big budget features but was never quite there compared to Avid. Do people here expect a similar thing with Premiere? Will the Coen Brothers speak out about how great it was to edit their latest film on Premiere, or on Avid?

Basically, what I'm trying to find out is, will having Premiere at the top of your resume hold the same weight (or more) as having FCP did, and furthermore, do you think it will ever hold the weight of Avid or at least cause real competition to the point that being a "Premiere editor" will get me real work?

I know that the BBC is on Premiere now but what about the US? What does being a "Premiere editor" get you?

Panasonic HPX17 P
2008 Unibody Macbook Pro 15 inch, 2.8 Ghz, 4GB RAM
CalDigit VR, G-RAID mini, G-DRIVE mini
Final Cut Pro Studio 3
Adobe Premiere Pro CS5.5
Avid Media Composer 3.5.4
The College of WIlliam and Mary


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Douglas Morse
Re: Switching to Premiere Pro CS5.5 or Media Composer 5.5
on Jul 2, 2011 at 1:59:15 pm

I'd strongly suggest the 30 day trial for each. In terms of features for the indie filmmaker, Premiere is stronger with a better suite. It is also 64 bit, which Avid is not. So as of this moment, I go premiere. I can't wait to see Avid's 64 bit product however.

More importantly though are the projects you have lined up for the near future. Then you can pick the tool that is right for you.

What has been lost in this entire discussion is where will the content come from and where will the content creators take their work. I spend six months plus just on casting a feature film. That kind of care for casting and choosing of material will drive the market.

No matter what the 'editors' want, it will be their partnership with the content creators that leads the way. Some will want the Avid workflow, other will want premiere. Alas, it is likely that mostly home videos, for now, will be taken to Final Cut X. Someone can prove me wrong, but it's the exception that proves the rule. How many people would trust a feature to it? Or a car commercial? Or a promo for Cinemax? What will these people want to see on a computer screen? Perhaps it's better to ask them rather than a bunch of editors :-)


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Daniel Frome
Re: Switching to Premiere Pro CS5.5 or Media Composer 5.5
on Jul 2, 2011 at 2:16:01 pm

Obviously Premiere is more of a fluid switch for FCP users than Media Composer, but do people here think that it's better to just bite the bullet and spend more on Media Composer and take the time to learn?

It all depends what environment you work in. If you work in TV or film, then AVID is the only real choice if the high-end market is your goal. I do expect Premiere, however, to break some ground, but nothing all that substantial. You need to realize that much of FCP's gain was an indirect result of AVID royally screwing up in the early 2000s. These days AVID (fingers crossed) seems to have it together -- the software is much better and the prices are reasonable. I simply don't see any reason for AVID users to switch at this stage. Even though MC5.5 is still a 32bit product you'll see that it doesn't suffer the same issues as 32bit versions of FCP or Premiere back in the day. In fact... oddly enough it can still handle more footage than both without slowing down. Premiere Pro CS5.5, however, definitely has it beat in general speed of filters and scrubbing the timeline.


ever hold the weight of Avid or at least cause real competition to the point that being a "Premiere editor" will get me real work?


The experienced AVID editor is going to look better on paper for the next 10 years, like it or not.

I know that the BBC is on Premiere now but what about the US? What does being a "Premiere editor" get you?

The BBC is still primarily AVID in both parts of the world, but they did purchase a sizable chunk of Premiere licenses too. Both should exist across the board, imo.

To be honest... learn both.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Switching to Premiere Pro CS5.5 or Media Composer 5.5
on Jul 2, 2011 at 2:36:29 pm

[Daniel Frome] "To be honest... learn both."

oh its not fair. I could kill apple. I'm doing premiere for now myself.


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Terry Cantwell
Re: Switching to Premiere Pro CS5.5 or Media Composer 5.5
on Jul 2, 2011 at 3:10:04 pm

I've been using Adobe for about two years alongside FCS3. I really like Premiere and CS5 really raised the bar. To be honest I don't think FCP7 was really all that good, but I'd be accused of heresy by some of the editors I know for saying that. The rendering delays were horrendous and compressing all your footage to ProRes in advance didn't always make this better either. Especially if you're using complex effects, text work, or transitions. I use a lot of text in our docos and the FC text tool couldn't cope. So, in the last year, I've been using CS5 for about 75% of my work because it's just more efficient. Although FInal Cut had some advantages too. Color was such a great program and the smooth cam filter worked very well for us because we do a lot of filming at sea using shoulder mounts and steady cam. The Smooth Cam was able to iron out some annoying rolls on good shots. Much more quickly and effectively than motion tracking in After Effects.

I'm not so familiar with Avid, but I suspect it is probably the most powerful tool, but the the most difficult to master. I have used Avid and I like it, but never had the time to fully master its potential.

Most of the TV guys here in Australia either use FC or Avid. Premiere is still considered something of a toy, which is unfair. With FCPX the game has changed. Final Cut is history. CS5.5 is capable of doing pretty much everything that Final Cut did. CS5's suite is great value for money and a powerful suite that will enable you to create some seriously professional work.

It all depends on what you need. If you want a good looking resume I'd say use Avid. If you want to get on with your editing get yourself adobe.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Switching to Premiere Pro CS5.5 or Media Composer 5.5
on Jul 2, 2011 at 3:45:35 pm

yeah - premiere was a joke in london too - three years of freelance and I've never seen anyone cutting on Premiere, but that's going to change now. Everyone - below the top end - is going to come to the same conclusion I think - that premiere is the easiest safest transition to hand. Hell its the only transition if its not Avid, premiere is the only thing left. That and our EOL software.

I just need the editor part myself - I'm a straight cutter - I'd always XML the cut to AE to do colour balancing, grading and relighting on a shot by shot basis anyway. And Premiere can definitely do that for me, I don't even need the XML bridge anymore - I look at it and I'm comfortable that it can get the job done. The lack of a delivery codec is the only thing thats giving me pause, coming from my prores mindset - I know cineform is out there, but gopro just bought them, and besides, if I'm handing off Cineform QTs I'm going to have to put a sticky on them saying "please install the cineform codec".
Bar that I'm pretty kosher hopefully. Thank God premiere got pretty up to snuff there. What if it was still the old mess? We'd all just have to walk straight over to Avid.


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Peter Corbett
Re: Switching to Premiere Pro CS5.5 or Media Composer 5.5
on Jul 2, 2011 at 11:56:34 pm

[Aindreas Gallagher] "The lack of a delivery codec is the only thing thats giving me pause, coming from my prores mindset"

I export directly from the CS5.5 timeline to ProRes422 all the time. It's a standard export format on CS Mac, so don't worry about that. All the ProRes formats are there in the drop-down menu.

Peter Corbett
Powerhouse Productions
http://www.php.com.au


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jacob redman
Re: Switching to Premiere Pro CS5.5 or Media Composer 5.5
on Jul 17, 2011 at 10:15:05 pm

HI, Premiere can export to apple proress on mac
in fact on Mac Premiere can export all the codecs of Avid too

editor


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: Switching to Premiere Pro CS5.5 or Media Composer 5.5
on Jul 2, 2011 at 2:53:44 pm

Premiere is way loads easier to take in from an FCP perspective I think. Depends I guess really.

I find myself looking at the timeline and the edit operations and thinking Premiere all looks pretty fine.

http://library.creativecow.net/articles/harrington_richard/Premiere-Pro_Rep...


http://www.ogallchoir.net
promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Ged Yeates
Re: Switching to Premiere Pro CS5.5 or Media Composer 5.5
on Jul 2, 2011 at 3:59:13 pm

Hello

Just a wee clarification regarding the BBC using Premiere. Premiere is currently only being used by the BBC on news programming shot by VJ's (video journalists who self shoot and self edit) using Window's laptops for editing.

The bulk of their programme editing is still done on Avid and FCP suites. I film for BBC Scotland and they are exclusively Avid for in house editing though some other BBC regions and departments do use a mix of Avid and FCP suites.

Ged Yeates (Isle of Lewis, Scotland)

Ged Yeates - Lighting Cameraman
http://www.gedtv.com


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Mike Molenda
Re: Switching to Premiere Pro CS5.5 or Media Composer 5.5
on Jul 2, 2011 at 4:55:30 pm

Knowing Avid is still a feather you can wear in your cap. Premiere hasn't quite broken through to that level yet. And it seems like FCP is losing more respect in that arena by the day.

After all, a bad editor can cut together sh*t on any platform. But if they know Avid, it's industry-standard sh*t.

If you're considering freelancing, go with the tools that are most comfortable for you to work with. If your resume is well-done, hopefully "X number of years experience in nonlinear editing" without specifying a platform will be enough to get some potential clients/employers through to at least a phone call or looking at your reel.

If you're targeting a specific employer or sector of the industry for employment (the BBC, for instance), then for God's sake learn the tools they use! Forgive me if I'm jumping to conclusions, but based on your signature (William & Mary, combined with an obscene number of post suites loaded on the same 15" MBP) I'm guessing you're a student? If so, cherish this opportunity to take advantage of internships at these places. You will learn things they will never teach you in class!


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Joe Moya
Re: Switching to Premiere Pro CS5.5 or Media Composer 5.5
on Jul 2, 2011 at 5:55:00 pm

Learn them both...

Adobe CS5 is stable enough to work with and is capable of doing a lot of compositing with editing combo-type projects. If you want to gain a good footing on CG, 2D work (and some basic 3D w/plug-ins) with editing capacity...then, Adobe's Production Premium Suite is a very good option. Compared to AVID...Adobe has (IMO) much better color correction capabilities (probably soon to change with AVID's next release...which is looong overdue).

AVID is still pretty much old school in it's work flow process and UI... but, it is extremely stable. Which is probably the key reason it is still considered for major productions. In recent days, AVID has tried to shake the old school image but pretty much created a "almost pregnant" results. I suspect the next major release will make up for this attempt to compete with Adobe's and FCP's mmore intuitive UI. AVID is predominately keyboard editing...but, giving way to a more point and click editing application. Compared to Adobe... AVID (IMO) has stronger multicamera capabilities.

I don't think you could go wrong with either... so much so, it would be best if you learned both. As for the learning curve neither should be much of a difference. But....because of Adobe's UI... the learning curve would be mostly like less challenging than AVID's.


Sidenote: What might surpise you is that many of the the new innvoation claims by FCPX already exist in either ADOBE or AVID.


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Kevin Monahan
Re: Switching to Premiere Pro CS5.5 or Media Composer 5.5
on Jul 2, 2011 at 7:14:22 pm

Hi Guys,
Just wanted to make sure you're all aware that FCP and Avid editors currently get a 50% off deal for Production Premium CS5.5 or Premiere Pro CS5.5. It's like the most killer deal Adobe's ever offered.

Go here for the deal: http://www.adobe.com/products/premiere.html?promoid=ITKJK
Here are some resources for you: http://blogs.adobe.com/premiereprotraining/2010/09/premiere-pro-overview-do...

Kevin Monahan
Sr. Content and Community Lead
Adobe After Effects
Adobe Premiere Pro
Adobe Systems, Inc.
Follow Me on Twitter!


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Derek Aire
Re: Switching to Premiere Pro CS5.5 or Media Composer 5.5
on Jul 19, 2011 at 3:00:01 am

Also found out tonight that AVID is offering 60% off Media Composer for FCP users. ($995) 8-)
Im on the trial now. Is all coming back to me slowly but surely...

http://www.avid.com/US/specialoffers/fcp-mc-promotion?intcmp=AV-HP-S2

Way to go Apple!


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Kris Trexler
Re: Switching to Premiere Pro CS5.5 or Media Composer 5.5
on Jul 2, 2011 at 9:27:37 pm

Matthew,

As a longtime successful Avid editor in Hollywood, I highly recommend you take the rare opportunity to buy Media Composer at the cheap "switcher" price. At least in Hollywood, Premiere will get you nowhere except in possibly the lower end market. Avid rules Hollywood and for good reason: it's reliable and has the tools editors need to express their creativity. And Avid has ALWAYS allowed projects created on legacy versions to be imported to their newest versions of software. If you're a seasoned FCP editor, your migration to MC won't be difficult. And having Avid on your resume will carry you a lot further in Los Angeles than Premiere will. If possible, learn both. The more tools you know how to use, the more desirable you'll be. Your creativity will shine in either platform.

Maybe FCX will be useable someday, but it won't find its way into professional editing suites for a long time to come...if ever. However, I may use it to edit my vacation video, something it might be ideally suited for.

Kris


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Peter Corbett
Re: Switching to Premiere Pro CS5.5 or Media Composer 5.5
on Jul 3, 2011 at 12:17:26 am

I run mainly Adobe master Suite and FCP, but I'm thinking of getting that Avid deal. I tried the Avid free trial and it really bamboozled me. It is just so different from from CS5 and FCP7.

I reckon if you produce in-house without clients looking over your shoulder, go for Adobe. If you a freelance broadcast/film editor, then Avid is probably for you.

But even if you go for Avid, get the Adobe crossgrade deal. It's just too good an offer and the tools will come in handy. Plus...future upgrades to CS6 and beyond will be much cheaper if you have the crossgrade already.

Peter Corbett
Powerhouse Productions
http://www.php.com.au


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Dennis Radeke
Re: Switching to Premiere Pro CS5.5 or Media Composer 5.5
on Jul 19, 2011 at 10:30:35 am

I think the honest fair answer is that you should learn and know as many NLE's as you can as honestly a particular NLE might be more suited to a given project than another.

That said, in the US, Premiere Pro is being used at CNN and at Hearst Television (a 30 station group in the US), with many more that are non-public. You can find the press release stories on the above two at the Adobe site.

My main gig at Adobe is to support the large broadcasters and entertainment companies in the US and I can tell you I was very busy before FCP X and I'm insane now. So, Adobe carries it's weight and worth just like FCP and Avid.

Know all three NLEs if you can and use the one you like most.

Dennis - Adobe guy.


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