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Photos is a Platform too?

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Charlie Austin
Photos is a Platform too?
on Oct 2, 2015 at 10:17:50 pm

Marcus Moore noticed this, and I think it's pretty interesting.



To keep to our glorious topic, FCP X was "missing" a lot when it dropped. But 3'rd parties have extended it so that now I can, if I want to, do AAF, EDL, Color Wheels, Planar Tracking, Work with 3D objects and a ton of other stuff without leaving the app. Yes, things are still "missing". (do me a favor and refrain from listing them here, or defending their absence if you don't mind) But there's a lot I can do right in the timeline now. More than any other NLE I use.

I wonder what else is gonna show up to "extend" Photos. ;-) What would yo like to see show up as an Extension?

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Photos is a Platform too?
on Oct 2, 2015 at 10:39:17 pm

Hey Charlie, since I'm an old Luddite who's afraid of new technology, can you please do me a favor by explaining what an extention is?

I hate to admit it, I've see the term used for years in other apps, but I never knew the term, and therefore if I had any use for an extension.

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist & Workflow Consultant
David Weiss Productions
Los Angeles


David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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Charlie Austin
Re: Photos is a Platform too?
on Oct 2, 2015 at 10:48:13 pm

[David Roth Weiss] "Hey Charlie, since I'm an old Luddite who's afraid of new technology, can you please do me a favor by explaining what an extention is? "

Basically it adds the functions from an app, or new functions, into another app. Kind of like Color Finale or mObject in FCP X. A new UI opens up in Photos so you can do stuff without switching to another app.

Check out the demos in the link above... Select a photo in Photos, choose Edit, select an Extension, and all sorts of fun stuff appears. :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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David Roth Weiss
Re: Photos is a Platform too?
on Oct 2, 2015 at 10:51:07 pm

That sounds like a plugin, are they the same, or is there a difference?

David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist & Workflow Consultant
David Weiss Productions
Los Angeles


David is a Creative COW contributing editor and a forum host of the Apple Final Cut Pro forum.


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Charlie Austin
Re: Photos is a Platform too?
on Oct 2, 2015 at 10:58:16 pm
Last Edited By Charlie Austin on Oct 2, 2015 at 11:02:51 pm

[David Roth Weiss] "That sounds like a plugin, are they the same, or is there a difference?"

Kind of. I think the difference is that, rather than just adding something to Photos, it basically hooks another app into Photos. All the Apps listed here are not new, they're standalone apps. But because of the new Extensions API thingy, they've been updated so you can use them from within Photos as well.

EDIT: So I guess my Color Finale/mObject & FCP X example wasn't really correct, despite their custom UI, they are plugins in that you need to open them from FCP... I dunno what the analog to this is...

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Oliver Peters
Re: Photos is a Platform too?
on Oct 3, 2015 at 1:58:36 am

FYI - This requires El Capitan, which adds extensions to Photos. You can buy these through the Mac App Store.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Gary Huff
Re: Photos is a Platform too?
on Oct 3, 2015 at 2:14:53 pm

[David Roth Weiss] "That sounds like a plugin, are they the same, or is there a difference?
"


I don't think there's anything that actually differentiates a plugin from an extension. It's just terminology.


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Michael Phillips
Re: Photos is a Platform too?
on Oct 3, 2015 at 2:43:05 pm

For other "platforms" like browser technology, there does seem to a difference between a plug-in and an extension.

"An extension could contain a plugin, but a plugin can’t contain an extension"

Full article here:

http://colonelpanic.net/2010/08/browser-plugins-vs-extensions-the-differenc...


Michael


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Gary Huff
Re: Photos is a Platform too?
on Oct 5, 2015 at 11:08:22 am
Last Edited By Gary Huff on Oct 5, 2015 at 11:09:30 am

[Michael Phillips] ""An extension could contain a plugin, but a plugin can’t contain an extension""

That's a lot of verbiage to simply express that an extension is merely a sandboxed plugin.


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Charlie Austin
Re: Photos is a Platform too?
on Oct 5, 2015 at 3:12:51 pm

[Gary Huff] "That's a lot of verbiage to simply express that an extension is merely a sandboxed plugin."

In a browser, sure. In the case of OS X, Extensions are not a standalone "thing", they're just code to allow Applications to extend parts of their functionality into other apps. Plugins generally don't do anything without a host app. So far, all the Photos Extensions are built into standalone apps. So... similar to plugins in how they work with other apps, but not the same...

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Gary Huff
Re: Photos is a Platform too?
on Oct 5, 2015 at 11:35:12 pm

[Charlie Austin] ". So... similar to plugins in how they work with other apps, but not the same..."

Magic Bullet Looks is a plugin that's also its own app. So is Tiffen DFX.


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Charlie Austin
Re: Photos is a Platform too?
on Oct 6, 2015 at 12:37:04 am

[Gary Huff] "Magic Bullet Looks is a plugin that's also its own app. So is Tiffen DFX."

Yep. There's a difference, but it's hair-splitting at this point.

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Jim Wiseman
Re: Photos is a Platform too?
on Oct 5, 2015 at 4:47:42 pm

As a heavy Aperture user I need a powerful DAM, Digital Asset Manager, for photos. The dropping of Aperture is my biggest gripe with Apple. I'm sure it had something to do with changes planned in El Capitan, but I'm sticking with it (Yosemite version) until Photos proves it's worth. I should have at least 5 years with my current hardware.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1, Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Pro X 10.2.2, Final Cut Studio 2 & 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.6, Premiere Pro CS 5 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K, Blackmagic Teranex, Avid MC: 2013 Mac Pro Hexacore, 1TB SSD, 64GB RAM, 2-D500: Helios 2 w 2-960GB SSDs: 2012 Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz, 24Gb RAM, GTX-680, 960GB SSD: Macbook Pro Retina 2015, i7, 500GB, M370X 2GB: Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 16GB RAM 250GB SSD, Multiple OWC Thunderbay 4 TB2 and eSATA QX2 RAID 5 HD systems


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Bret Williams
Re: Photos is a Platform too?
on Oct 5, 2015 at 4:55:29 pm

I never got the impression that Photos was supposed to be, nor was planned to be a replacement for Aperture. As a heavy user of iPhoto and now Photos, the difference is negligible better or worse. It's just a rewrite of iPhoto. I don't notice any performance difference and the tools are mostly the same, just relabeled or placed differently. So unless Apple specifically said something I wouldn't hold my breath. I thought they ceded that battle to Lightroom.


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Jim Wiseman
Re: Photos is a Platform too?
on Oct 5, 2015 at 6:21:08 pm
Last Edited By Jim Wiseman on Oct 5, 2015 at 6:46:05 pm

Honestly don't hold out much hope for Photos as an Aperture replacement. I really prefer the interface of Aperture to Lightroom. Asset management is much more powerful, and you are always in the same interface. Having to jump from room to room to perform functions in LR is inhibiting. Also, Lightroom's asset management is pretty much just folder based. Searches and organization are more refined in Aperture. I did buy the perpetual license to LR5 and got the upgrade to 6.x. At least no rental. We'll see what can happen with extensions to Photos, but for now I'm staying on the sidelines. If nothing better shows up in the next few years, I'll probably have to use LR. Phase One shows hope with Capture One, and they bought Media Pro from Microsoft who rather messed it up after they bought it as iView Media Pro. If they can combine those two code bases they may have the winner I'm looking for. They have the best RAW conversion, by all accounts.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1, Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Pro X 10.2.2, Final Cut Studio 2 & 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.6, Premiere Pro CS 5 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K, Blackmagic Teranex, Avid MC: 2013 Mac Pro Hexacore, 1TB SSD, 64GB RAM, 2-D500: Helios 2 w 2-960GB SSDs: 2012 Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz, 24Gb RAM, GTX-680, 960GB SSD: Macbook Pro Retina 2015, i7, 500GB, M370X 2GB: Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 16GB RAM 250GB SSD, Multiple OWC Thunderbay 4 TB2 and eSATA QX2 RAID 5 HD systems


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Bill Davis
Re: Photos is a Platform too?
on Oct 5, 2015 at 7:56:24 pm

I do wonder if what happened with FCP X will be instructive for this.

When OS X was released with AV Foundation basics and all it's Core Services, in hindsight, Randy U was obviously exploring what the new approach - allowed him to do with video streams. It's FIRST expression was with the iMovie update. Many of those concepts carried into FCP X but very much more developed and capable. And of course, over the past 4 years, FCP X has expanded greatly into all sorts of professional areas where Libraries and other structural capabilities are important.

IF (and it's a big speculative IF) Photos follows a similar trajectory, what then?

After the basic code changes are developed (PHOTOS) - will the evolving underlying technologies that were created for other primary purposes (Core Graphics, METAL acceleration, whatever) make it easier to enhance still image processing - and if so, will we see new Photos capabilities emerge?

Bespoke code writing feature by feature - which is how I IMAGINED it happening - might seem attractive, but if you build a house where EVERY board is custom cut and every fixture is purpose built - you end up with a SUPER complex structure that's hard to work on and subject to issues like plumbing that fails and no off-the-shelf parts anywhere around to fix the problem rapidly.

It's interesting to speculate that the many, many still-imaging driven folks MIGHT have more in store from Apple.

Certainly, the number of people who need or want to work with still images is at least as big as those who need or want to work with video. And if Apple has the engineering skills - why not someday either a Photos Pro - or at least a really robust 3rd party ecosystem that adds tons of modern capabilities to the underlying structure.

Fun to dream.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Charlie Austin
Re: Photos is a Platform too?
on Oct 5, 2015 at 7:18:26 pm

[Jim Wiseman] "I need a powerful DAM, Digital Asset Manager, for photos."

I've never used Aperture, so forgive the dumb question, but what's lacking organizationally in Photos vs Aperture?

-------------------------------------------------------------

~ My FCPX Babbling blog ~
~"It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools."~
~"The function you just attempted is not yet implemented"~


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Jim Wiseman
Re: Photos is a Platform too?
on Oct 5, 2015 at 7:41:30 pm

Aperture has very powerful keywording capabilities, searches on almost any metadata or combinations thereof. It has Album creation capability, you can drag photos into stacks in the browser, it uses Libraries similar to FCPX where everything, metadata, non destructive RAW adjustments and the original RAW or JPG photos, etc., are stored, self contained. It also can also do referenced libraries where the originals are stored on any number of external volumes. I could go on, but it would be like trying to explain the difference between Avid and iPhone video editing. Photos seems to be a folder based flat database with limited search and meatadata capabilities. I haven't used it, but from the reviews, pros are definitely not considering it at this point. If you have limited needs and just want a place to store photos by date and folder with limited adjustments, it might be fine. Most pros will want much more control.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1, Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Pro X 10.2.2, Final Cut Studio 2 & 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.6, Premiere Pro CS 5 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K, Blackmagic Teranex, Avid MC: 2013 Mac Pro Hexacore, 1TB SSD, 64GB RAM, 2-D500: Helios 2 w 2-960GB SSDs: 2012 Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz, 24Gb RAM, GTX-680, 960GB SSD: Macbook Pro Retina 2015, i7, 500GB, M370X 2GB: Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 16GB RAM 250GB SSD, Multiple OWC Thunderbay 4 TB2 and eSATA QX2 RAID 5 HD systems


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Oliver Peters
Re: Photos is a Platform too?
on Oct 5, 2015 at 8:49:44 pm

I think photography has evolved greatly since Apple introduced iPhoto and Aperture, thanks to the near-total move to digital photography and the ubiquity of cameras in smart phones.

I feel like Apple consciously abdicated the pro-photographer market years ago when they quit competing with Lightroom. Instead they've opted for an approach that was optimized for the iDevice/Mac/iCloud ecosystem. From that standpoint Photos is actually a pretty good product for the average consumer photographer.

I wouldn't expect it to go too much farther than where it is - especially now with Extensions.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Jim Wiseman
Re: Photos is a Platform too?
on Oct 5, 2015 at 9:50:23 pm
Last Edited By Jim Wiseman on Oct 6, 2015 at 4:10:06 am

I'd have to say that photography has become a much larger market with everyone carrying a camera as part of their phone in their pocket. Also more democratic. But I have to say that a good Nikon or Canon camera with excellent lenses is going to be able to do a lot more in the hands of a professional than an iPhone or an Android. Apple did give up that market with the move to Photos, but I can tell you from professional experience that Aperture is a very competent non destructive photo editor and a much better DAM than Lightroom.

It is true that Apple stopped adding major features at about version 3.4.5, but I still prefer it to any other environment. It is very easy to roundtrip to any other photo editor, Photoshop, Affinity Photo, Topaz, OnOne Perfect Photo Suite, etc, and save directly back to an Aperture Library. The only thing I can think of that Aperture didn't have that would be useful was lens distortion correction, but that was available as a plugin.

This whole situation with Aperture vs. Photos reminds me a lot of the discussion Bob Zelin began. There are many of us out here who mourn the demise of Aperture and are not looking forward to using Lightroom. I have over 100,000 photos going back to my first digital SLR I got in Japan in 2000. Aperture was designed from the beginning to be a digital camera photo application. Photos will sell more iPhones, but not everyone is happy about it being a replacement and not an addition.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1, Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Pro X 10.2.2, Final Cut Studio 2 & 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.6, Premiere Pro CS 5 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K, Blackmagic Teranex, Avid MC: 2013 Mac Pro Hexacore, 1TB SSD, 64GB RAM, 2-D500: Helios 2 w 2-960GB SSDs: 2012 Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz, 24Gb RAM, GTX-680, 960GB SSD: Macbook Pro Retina 2015, i7, 500GB, M370X 2GB: Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 16GB RAM 250GB SSD, Multiple OWC Thunderbay 4 TB2 and eSATA QX2 RAID 5 HD systems


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Oliver Peters
Re: Photos is a Platform too?
on Oct 5, 2015 at 9:57:47 pm

[Jim Wiseman] "But I have to say that a good Nikon or Canon camera with excellent lenses is going to be able to do a lot more in the hands of a professional than an iPhone or an Android. Apple did give up that market with the move to Photos, but I can tell you from professional experience that Aperture is a very competent non destructive photo editor and a much better DAM than Lightroom.
"


Agreed on the cameras. It's all in the glass. Although I prefer Lightroom, I like using Aperture, too - just a matter of preference. However, most of the pro photographers I know locally moved from Aperture to Lightroom long before Photos. I guess since Apple figured there was enough Mac software available to supply that niche, they no longer needed to focus on it.

One of the things I miss in this move is the ability, via a plug-in, to build a sequence of stills in Aperture that could be imported into FCP "classic". It sure would be nice to see something like that return between Photos and FCPX.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Jim Wiseman
Re: Photos is a Platform too?
on Oct 5, 2015 at 10:21:58 pm
Last Edited By Jim Wiseman on Oct 6, 2015 at 12:04:47 am

Aperture 3.6 was designed to work with Yosemite, and I saw somewhere on the Apple site that Aperture 3.6 was explicitly excluded from a list of Apple applications that will no longer work with El Capitan. Hopefully that is true, but I can always keep a Yosemite partition available for Aperture. I have Lightroom 6 perpetual, and of course will be getting into it as backup, but feel no need to abandon Aperture as long as it fits my workflow and the hardware/OS runs it.

That is a good feature importing the stills to FCP Legacy. Edited: thought you wrote FCPX Have you tried it to X?. Aperture is also great at book publishing and slideshows to music.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1, Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Pro X 10.2.2, Final Cut Studio 2 & 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.6, Premiere Pro CS 5 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K, Blackmagic Teranex, Avid MC: 2013 Mac Pro Hexacore, 1TB SSD, 64GB RAM, 2-D500: Helios 2 w 2-960GB SSDs: 2012 Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz, 24Gb RAM, GTX-680, 960GB SSD: Macbook Pro Retina 2015, i7, 500GB, M370X 2GB: Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 16GB RAM 250GB SSD, Multiple OWC Thunderbay 4 TB2 and eSATA QX2 RAID 5 HD systems


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Oliver Peters
Re: Photos is a Platform too?
on Oct 5, 2015 at 10:27:18 pm

[Jim Wiseman] "Aperture 3.6 was designed to work with Yosemite, and I saw somewhere on the Apple site that Aperture 3.6 was explicitly excluded from a list of Apple applications that will no longer work with El Capitan."

I'm not sure about that (one way or the other), but Apple did put Aperture back on the Mac App Store for those that already bought it. That means if you get a new machine, you can download Aperture to install on the new machine. It had been completely removed for awhile (shades of FCP).

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Jim Wiseman
Re: Photos is a Platform too?
on Oct 5, 2015 at 11:04:50 pm

Yes, that threw a scare into a lot of Aperture users. I was prepared for anything at that point having already downloaded the App Store versions 3.5.1 (Mavericks release) and 3.6 (Yosemite). It came back in about two days. Probably from panicked calls to ProApps Apple support! If you aren't giving us a physical copy, you better keep it available as a download after we paid for it. Such are the vagaries of the cloud!

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1, Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Pro X 10.2.2, Final Cut Studio 2 & 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.6, Premiere Pro CS 5 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K, Blackmagic Teranex, Avid MC: 2013 Mac Pro Hexacore, 1TB SSD, 64GB RAM, 2-D500: Helios 2 w 2-960GB SSDs: 2012 Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz, 24Gb RAM, GTX-680, 960GB SSD: Macbook Pro Retina 2015, i7, 500GB, M370X 2GB: Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 16GB RAM 250GB SSD, Multiple OWC Thunderbay 4 TB2 and eSATA QX2 RAID 5 HD systems


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