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"Why I like Premiere Pro" - looking for serious discussion

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Jeff Markgraf
"Why I like Premiere Pro" - looking for serious discussion
on Sep 10, 2015 at 8:33:33 am
Last Edited By Jeff Markgraf on Sep 10, 2015 at 8:42:20 am

What? In this forum? Heavens to Betsy!

Seriously, though...I've recently had to start working with PPro for some network promo stuff. CC2014, because the client says CC2015 is too buggy, and so won't upgrade yet.

As mentioned in another thread, my experience so far with PPro has been decidedly "meh." Which seems at odds with a number of users here who really seem to like it. So I'm trying to understand the disconnect. What makes PPro so great, for you? Specifically, what features does it have that you find both useful and unique? Especially compared to FCPX or Avid?

Context/perspective/biases:
- Not my first editing bar-b-que.
- Mostly broadcast promo and short form work, although some feature and long-form tossed in.
- Years of experience with Avid and FCP Legacy, and familiar with their respective strengths and weaknesses.
- All in on FCPX since day one. Really like it, while very aware of its shortcomings.
- NOT a fanboi, just an enthusiastic convert, who still works on Avid on a regular basis.
- Not an AE user, as i don't do much graphics work (that's done by others and dropped in).
- Not a colorist (also would be done out of house if needed), except for basic broadcast correction.
- A fair amount of audio mixing, although serious sweetening also done out of house.

In the interest of maintaining a high signal-to-noise ratio, and minimizing the "vitriol" and "hysteria" that have so irritated Alex 4D and the esteemed Mr. Soyka in a previous thread, I'm really not looking for "because it ISN'T FCPX!" or "it's what FCP 8 should have been" tropes. I think we all know better than that.

So? Do your best. I look forward to some interesting responses.


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Eric Santiago
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - looking for serious discussion
on Sep 10, 2015 at 12:12:44 pm

I would love to start one if only I can get past Premieres inability to select more than one clip in the Link Media window.
Ive posted this question in every possible forum e.g. REDUSER, Adobe, CreativeCow, etc...
Still no answer.
Btw posting this here is...you know...open for "discussion" ;)


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Herb Sevush
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - looking for serious discussion
on Sep 10, 2015 at 12:51:42 pm

[Eric Santiago] "if only I can get past Premieres inability to select more than one clip in the Link Media window."

Normally when you select the first clip to re-link, and then specify it's location, Ppro will link every other clip in your Que that can be found in that folder or any of it's sub-folders. I have had projects where for some unknown reason this ability breaks down and you have to manually go clip by clip. I haven't discovered any way to "refresh" a project that acts this way. This is not a feature, it is a bug. Fortunately for me this is a rare occurence.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Eric Santiago
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - looking for serious discussion
on Sep 10, 2015 at 2:26:57 pm

[Herb Sevush] "This is not a feature, it is a bug. Fortunately for me this is a rare occurence."

Currently its been haunting me due to this feature project with RED files.
Now Im finding new bugs where clips are missing audio in the timeline but they exist in the original clip.
I love inheriting projects :P


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Herb Sevush
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - looking for serious discussion
on Sep 10, 2015 at 2:32:00 pm

[Eric Santiago] "I love inheriting projects :P"

I have found over time, and this has happened with many different NLE's, that some project files get corrupted in ways that can't be fixed and you're better off creating a new project file from scratch. When this happens it seems counter intuitive to throw all the previous work away, but in the end you will loose more time trying to patch the ship rather than letting it sink and starting anew.

In any event, we've all been there, good luck.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Jim Wiseman
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - looking for serious discussion
on Sep 22, 2015 at 8:51:02 pm
Last Edited By Jim Wiseman on Sep 22, 2015 at 8:54:07 pm

Can't believe multi clip relink hasn't been addressed yet. One at a time? Not using Premiere anymore but that seemed like a glaring omission and a huge waste of effort. It was always one clip at a time when I was using it.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1, Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Pro X 10.2.2, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.6, Premiere Pro CS 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K, Blackmagic Teranex, Avid MC, 2013 Mac Pro Hexacore, 1TB SSD, 64GB RAM, 2-D500, Helios 2 w 2-960GB SSDs: 2012 Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz, 24Gb RAM, GTX-680, 960GB SSD: Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 16GB RAM 250GB SSD, Multiple OWC Thunderbay 4 TB2 and eSATA QX2 RAID 5 HD systems


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Herb Sevush
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - looking for serious discussion
on Sep 22, 2015 at 8:54:01 pm

[Jim Wiseman] "Can't believe multi clip relink hasn't been addressed yet. One at a time?"

It has been addressed, Eric was dealing with a corrupted project file. Re-link will relink anything in the folder or in any subfolders of the folder you point to.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Jim Wiseman
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - looking for serious discussion
on Sep 22, 2015 at 9:34:57 pm

That is good to hear. Used to drive me nuts.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1, Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Pro X 10.2.2, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.6, Premiere Pro CS 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K, Blackmagic Teranex, Avid MC, 2013 Mac Pro Hexacore, 1TB SSD, 64GB RAM, 2-D500, Helios 2 w 2-960GB SSDs: 2012 Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz, 24Gb RAM, GTX-680, 960GB SSD: Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 16GB RAM 250GB SSD, Multiple OWC Thunderbay 4 TB2 and eSATA QX2 RAID 5 HD systems


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Eric Santiago
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - looking for serious discussion
on Sep 23, 2015 at 12:28:08 pm

[Herb Sevush] "It has been addressed, Eric was dealing with a corrupted project file. Re-link will relink anything in the folder or in any subfolders of the folder you point to."

Im actually still playing the missing game :(

I only have one drive with the Proxies and it still gives me fits every time I open up the project.

In the past the Director/Editor and I were sharing files by moving just the PPr project. The folder structure was the same except for the root drive volume name.
Now I had to kill one of my RAIDs and rename it as same name as his drive just to avoid that stupid Relink window.
HOnestly Im not trying to start any sh*t here but why cant Premiere act like After Effects/FCPX/Maya/Resolve and pretty well most apps where it reads sub-root and down.
For some reason Premiere just wants an exact volume path.
Again this is CC 2014.
I dont have the patience for updating and never do during critical times.


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Herb Sevush
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - looking for serious discussion
on Sep 23, 2015 at 12:49:03 pm

[Eric Santiago] "For some reason Premiere just wants an exact volume path."

This is the "corrupted" project file. I share media and project files with editors all over the country and none of our directory or file structures are the same and re-link works fine, even if they are working off proxies they made, automatically linking everything in a selected folder and all it's sub-folders. Then, every once in a while, I get a project like yours that simply won't link. This is a bug, not a feature.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Herb Sevush
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - looking for serious discussion
on Sep 10, 2015 at 1:28:21 pm
Last Edited By Herb Sevush on Sep 10, 2015 at 1:49:44 pm

[Jeff Markgraf] " What makes PPro so great, for you? Specifically, what features does it have that you find both useful and unique?"

The audio track mixer is lovely. I have different preset Level/EQ/Compression for each type of track - sync, VO, EFX, music under, music only. All I have to do is edit to the appropriate track and my mix is 90% done. My effects generally come from my live sync; to turn a steak sizzle into a background EFX all I do is drop it down two tracks. To restore it to dialogue status, move it up again. I created a master template for this layout and with one click can open it in any project and edit in a "final audio mix" environment.

Send to Audition for Spectral Analysis repair - huge time saver to have this built in for fixing audio pops, background bangs.

Round trip to AE. I'm not a mograph guy, but there are times when AE is just the best tool for the job. For my skill level I prefer Motion actually, but currently there are no NLE's being sold that have a Send to Motion feature.

The scaling on Ppro is incredibly good compared to what I was used to with FCP7. Adding a judicious amount of the Sharpening Filter allows me to routinely blow up HD images to 125%, whereas with Legacy I would try never to go above 110%.

The built in masking with tracking in the motion tab of each clip is very useful.

The multicam feature seems to be on a par with what I know about the multicam for FCPX. There is a nice Ppro feature, once you learn how to set it up, where you can select all of the clips for a series of multiclips at one time and it will create all of the separate multiclips in one batch operation. Helpful if, like me, you are often creating dozens of multiclips for a single show.

Not a unique feature, but I do appreciate how customizable the UI is. Similar to FCP7 in that way. I would have a hard time being boxed in to someone else's idea of how I should use my screen real estate - in my case that is 2 x 23" monitors and an external video monitor.

Herb Sevush
Zebra Productions
---------------------------
nothin' attached to nothin'
"Deciding the spine is the process of editing" F. Bieberkopf


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Oliver Peters
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - looking for serious discussion
on Sep 10, 2015 at 2:23:22 pm

There are two places I currently use Premiere Pro on a regular basis. One is a small production company and the other is the retail services department of a local affiliate. Both are on CC2015 and things aren't any buggier than they ever were with FCP "classic".

The most taxing is the TV affiliate, as this is a multi-room shared storage situation. I am frequently moving projects between rooms and between Macs and PCs. There's a hodge-podge of mixed camera media in every project, so nothing is optimized. Some of these are multicam and many have a healthy use of AE in the project, for effects, color treatments and graphics. The biggest issues I encounter is the general playback quality of dropped frames and "sticky" performance. But, it's MUCH better than FCP used to be in this same situation. So I chalk it up to the media and to the network.

There are four things in this workflow that save a significant amount of time over how FCPX would be in this same situation.

1. AE integration. These guys use a lot of AE and if you can't at least deconstruct someone else's AE project or dynamic linked comp in order to make versions or updates, you wouldn't successfully work there. So AE is critical to their workflow in ways that Motion simply wouldn't be.

2. PPro's replace function. Several of these accounts use a lot of different 800 phone numbers over the same set of basic spots. 6 spots - 50+ variations. That sort of thing. Being able to replace from bin or viewer as a single contextual click literally saves hours over how you'd have to work in FCPX.

3. Audio mixing. Clip and track-based keyframing with automation. The ability to add track-based effects. The ability to add audio dissolves easily. All of this is significantly faster and more versatile than in FCPX.

4. Adobe Media Encoder. While you can do some of the similar batch encoding functions in Compressor, in the situation of variations, you also have to bang out different delivery formats based on the outside stations these spots are going to. You get a wider range of target formats and it's easier to create batches with different formats and different target folders within the SAN.

Just a few.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Steve Connor
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - looking for serious discussion
on Sep 10, 2015 at 4:41:05 pm

[Herb Sevush] "The scaling on Ppro is incredibly good compared to what I was used to with FCP7. Adding a judicious amount of the Sharpening Filter allows me to routinely blow up HD images to 125%, whereas with Legacy I would try never to go above 110%."

The scaling in FCPX is equally as good, if not slightly better than PPro

[Herb Sevush] "The built in masking with tracking in the motion tab of each clip is very useful.
"


Agreed I use this a lot

[Herb Sevush] "Not a unique feature, but I do appreciate how customizable the UI is"

It's another thing I wish FCPX was better at, I love the fact you can expand the timeline to full screen with a single keystroke


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Ryan Holmes
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - looking for serious discussion
on Sep 10, 2015 at 2:16:09 pm

[Jeff Markgraf] "What makes PPro so great, for you? Specifically, what features does it have that you find both useful and unique?"

To hit some high level features I'd say that since CS5 Premiere has taken just about any codec you throw at it with realtime playback (provided you have the hardware). Premiere was working with h.264 files pretty early on into the "DSLR revolution" and that endeared it to many of us shooter/editors. That's not a defining feature today as nearly all NLE's can handle h.264 with east today (though I'm not sure how well Media Composer does with those files....?).

The integration between apps is a great benefit as Herb notes - Audition, AE, Photoshop, etc - all can come into Premiere natively (just import the project file and Premiere will parse that and display the content). Building template lower thirds and handing them to my editors as an AE file speeds up the workflow. And because it's a template the editable text fields appear in Premiere while keeping the animation. So the editor can just swap out the name without ever leaving Premiere or having to fiddle with animation.

As much as one can enjoy kayframing, I think Premiere's keyframe editor is better than the other apps (though this may be personal preference because I'm used to AE). It can still use some work, for sure, but I don't mind having to push keyframes around in Premiere (it's a lot better than FCP Legacy, IMHO).

The customizability (is that a word?) of the interface is nice in our shop. Since not everyone has the same monitor real estate it's really easy to customize the interface to fit with what that editor wants to see as they work across 1 screen or 2 screens - every panel is movable and resizable.

Specific to CC2015, I'd say that the Lumetri color panel is absolutely spectacular. If you've ever used Lightroom then Lumetri is basically that ripped out and slid into Premiere. The masking, tracking, and vignetting all available within Premiere are really nice too.

But users mileage varies, and if you strictly edit (no sound, no color, no mograph) then it would seem like personal preference regarding which NLE you enjoy as they all can "get the job done." In our shop we have to do a bit of everything so the Adobe suite of apps suits us very well to accomplish that task. And the more tightly they integrate them the better it is for us.

[Jeff Markgraf] " because the client says CC2015 is too buggy, and so won't upgrade yet. "

I'm not sure what the fuss is about CC2015. I've been running it since June on 5 workstations and turning work out every week. There's always hiccups within any software, but buggy to the point it's unusable I haven't experienced. Or maybe the bugs that are there just don't cross my workflow....?

Ryan Holmes
http://www.ryanholmes.me
@CutColorPost


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Steve Connor
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - looking for serious discussion
on Sep 10, 2015 at 4:43:26 pm

[Ryan Holmes] "Specific to CC2015, I'd say that the Lumetri color panel is absolutely spectacular. "

I'd agree 100% it's the thing that's tempting me away from FCPX more and more


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Oliver Peters
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - looking for serious discussion
on Sep 10, 2015 at 5:05:19 pm

[Steve Connor] "I'd agree 100% it's the thing that's tempting me away from FCPX more and more"

Agreed on Lumetri panel. Now if they could only make the SpeedGrade connection perform better.

Three more speed plusses with PPro for me:

1. Direct send to Audition for improved audio post. Wish that existed between FCPX and LPX.

2. Easy track and timeline resizing, especially with a wheeled mouse.

3. Workspaces. I have numerous task-oriented layouts saved for dual screens. At home and at one facility, I work with a large primary monitor in the center and a smaller secondary display offset to the left. This lets me quickly shift the workspaces around, based on the task at hand.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Andrew Kimery
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - looking for serious discussion
on Sep 11, 2015 at 2:14:45 am

My incomplete, non-exclusive list (by that I mean sometimes might be in other NLEs but they are still a reason I like working with PPro).

1. I really like the built in sync via waveform and how multicam is setup (PPro and X basically work the same in this capacity AFAIK). So much easier than doing it by hand in Avid or FCP Legend. Being able to tweak things after the multciam is made is awesome as well.

2. I dig customizable UI's. X probably has the most optimized layout if you are working on a single, normal sized display, but I'm rarely just using one standard monitor (usually two monitors plus a broadcast and/or client monitor). I like being to able to bring up the windows/tools I want and put them where I want.

2a. 'Pancake' editing. Stacking two timelines so I can easily drag/drop between them. I'll usually put various Broll timelines on top w/my program timeline on the bottom.

3. How the extensions work. I like how 3rd parties can build functionality directly into PPro. For example, the custom MAM that MLB's in house video team built, Pond5 integration and MediaSilo integration.

4. PPro will take just about any codec you throw at it. With FCP Legend and Avid I always need to know what codec and see if I have the right plugin installed so I can import it etc.,. With PPro I just import via the Media Browser and go. Sure there is a performance penalty for editing AVCHD as opposed to ProRes or DNxHD, but for the projects I've cut in PPro so far it's been a non-issue.

5. Adequate (at least for me) performance on older hardware such as my 2009 MP and my 2011 MBP. Sure I have annoying hiccups now and again but for a 6yr old machine I can't really complain.


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James Patterson
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - looking for serious discussion
on Sep 11, 2015 at 1:25:19 pm
Last Edited By James Patterson on Sep 11, 2015 at 1:26:47 pm

Another shout out for the customisable UI, it might not be a sexy feature as such but it makes things so much easier to have a workspace of all the main things that I use 90% of the time laid out exactly as I want them.

Best


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Chris Wright
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - looking for serious discussion
on Sep 13, 2015 at 3:56:40 am
Last Edited By Chris Wright on Sep 13, 2015 at 5:10:38 am

dynamic link works fairly good, finally, after like 10 years, lol, but woa to the user who has a wide gamut monitor or uses DNG for compositing. why?

1. dynamic link 2015 connects and force auto simulates into rec709, so wide gamut monitor users will need a LUT to correct this.

2. DNG imports don't import sequences correctly. and AE's import of them not only crops them differently than Premiere(think pan and scan) but...

3. the colors are different due to two engine types. Sooo, you either have to render out all DNG's from AE or render out all DNG's from premiere, plus the crops will never match up.

4. So...you need to buy matchlight to create a LUT that matches the two DNG import engines, and still the crops are uncorrectable.

5. where's my 32bit codec export support?


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Jeff Markgraf
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - focusing the question a bit
on Sep 14, 2015 at 6:08:10 am

Thanks, guys. Interesting responses.

It seems there are a couple of major themes for PPro fans: AE integration, color correction tools, audio bussing and UI flexibility. Of this group, only the audio stuff is particularly relevant or interesting to me.

I definitely agree that track-based functions would be a huge addition to X. While compound-clipping the audio is a workaround of sorts, it leaves much to be desired. I think if the compound clip could be opened in place (ala Resolve), this method would be more useful. But, still, the oft-requested roles-based mixer would be a great thing. Let's hope...

As far as the other points...well, as I said, not important to me.

It's not that I don't do compositing in X. Quite the contrary, I do it all the time, especially for "rough cuts" for the execs that aren't really rough cuts at all. I find compositing in X to be a joy compared to any other NLE I've used. Anything more complex could certainly be handled by Motion, or by getting a finished file from an AE artist. As an "I don't do AE" editor, I wouldn't presume to start tinkering too much with an AE composition in my timeline, so the PPro-AE link doesn't do much for me. But I can certainly see the appeal for the editor/mograph combo.

Same with color correction. Between the native color board & filters and some rather reasonably priced plugins, I can do most of the correction I need. Anything fancier would go to a professional colorist who would use the tool of his/her choice. And since Resolve is free, I can send to it pretty easily if I want to dabble with a real CC tool.

As far as UI, meh. I just don't have a problem with the one screen layout. In the past, I've customized my Avid layout to make it easier for me. This primarily entails consolidating my most needed windows & tools onto one screen. Since embracing X, I've actually started working with Avid on one screen, as long as the monitor is at least 24" (preferably 27"). This is largely because I prefer to edit with the picture monitor directly above the edit screen, with the edit screen at table level (not raised on a bridge as so many seem to do). Less constant head turning. Everything in one basic sightline. Perhaps because I come from a linear online editing background, this layout is comfortable and sensible to me. It may be why I have zero problem with the idea of one UI video window that switched between "source" and "record" as needed. That's how it worked in every edit bay I ever worked in until Avid came around. Interestingly, PPro out of the box is more friendly to my setup than Avid will ever be.

Totally get where you guys are coming from, though.

What I'd really like to see here is some discussion of specific editing features. Some examples:

- I find that using command-arrow for trimming a clip but option-arrow for moving a clip to be ridiculous. Why to the same keystrokes? Just like Avid, just like FCP Legacy and just like X. What's the logic? Not to mention, no keyboard-direct means of slipping/sliding a clip (again, as with Avid, etc.) Why?

- Accessing the clip transform controls in the source window: why always having to turn down a disclosure triangle? Why not have the x-y-z transform parameters always in the open? It's a little thing, but twirling those little triangles all day long really gets tiresome. What's the logic here?

- Why is "make a new title from current" not the default title tool behavior? Under what circumstance would I ever want multiple instances of the same title in my timeline? I don't get it.

See, it's the little things like these that I find aggravating about PPro. So, to re-ask and focus the original question: what are the "little editing things" that make PPro a better tool for you?


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Jeff Markgraf
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - focusing the question a bit
on Sep 18, 2015 at 6:43:07 am

Bumping to try to get some responses to the more focused question. Anyone?


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Andrew Kimery
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - focusing the question a bit
on Sep 18, 2015 at 7:52:35 am

I'm not quite sure what you are looking for, Jeff. You asked what people liked, people responded, you wrote a lengthy reply about mostly why what people liked isn't applicable to you. Is there a certain feature you are looking for? Are you hoping someone will convince you to like using PPro?

Going back to my initial response, I know you are 'meh' about the customizable GUI but for me the customizable GUI can directly impact how I edit. For example, being able to open multiple timelines and easily stack them (usually broll/interview timelines on top and my program timeline underneath) and copy/paste between them is a specific editing feature that I like. You can do it in FCP Legend as well, but it's harder to setup because the GUI isn't as flexible.


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Jeff Markgraf
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - focusing the question a bit
on Sep 18, 2015 at 8:15:49 am

Hi Andrew.

I guess I'm looking for some of the day in, day out edit-specific things that make Premiere the preferred NLE for people. I get the feeling that I'm somehow missing something.

It's not that I don't appreciate what I think of as the "big" things that Premiere brings to the table. For example, being format agnostic is great, but not something I think much about cranking out promos all day. Whereas a feature such as Avid's dynamic trimming (if you use it much) is huge in minute by minute, hour after hour editing. Or, for some people, being able to gang synch. Or being able to expand a compound clip in place to tweak the layers - something FCPX can't do.

So, yes, stuff like your example of opening multiple timelines so as to cut and paste into a new timeline is what I'm looking for. Or like being able to adjust audio as the timeline continues - something Avid just can't do. "Little things" that affect the edit process over and over, all day long.

Not sure I want to be convinced, so much as enlightened. If I'm saying "meh" while others are saying "wow," then I really want to know what the fuss is all about.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - focusing the question a bit
on Sep 18, 2015 at 5:58:39 pm

[Jeff Markgraf] "If I'm saying "meh" while others are saying "wow," then I really want to know what the fuss is all about."

Sometimes one person's 'meh' is just another person's 'wow.' ;)

I tend to do a lot of unscripted projects with high shooting ratios so things that let me keep the footage at my finger tips are more important to me than, say, more readily accessible X, Y, Z transform controls (though I do agree that they should be 'on' by default). For example, on a current project I have lots of footage of various events (the main subject giving speeches, appearing at rallies, etc.,.) and instead of having one selects sequence for each event I just put all the selects into one big sequence.

The sequence is about 11hrs long but it doesn't lag at all (which I found pleasantly surprising). I used spanned markers to mark each event tip to tail and then normal markers to mark specific moments within each event (things are also color coded). I have a big Markers window open in my left hand monitor so I can quickly scroll to what I want in the Markers window and my playhead will jump to it in the timeline.

There are still some rough edges that I need to send Adobe a feature request about, but overall it's working out surprisingly well.

I know it's not a specific editing example (like loving trim mode or something) but it does help me edit faster since I can keep more footage 'at the ready'.


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Bill Davis
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - focusing the question a bit
on Sep 18, 2015 at 8:28:18 pm

[Andrew Kimery] "For example, on a current project I have lots of footage of various events (the main subject giving speeches, appearing at rallies, etc.,.) and instead of having one selects sequence for each event I just put all the selects into one big sequence. "

OMG. If you ever bit the bullet, Andrew, and learned X properly your head would explode.

The idea of having to use sequence string-outs as a way to locate shots seems positively prehistoric to me now.

X's database gives you all the visual reference of the old system - but with the ability to call groups, collections or specific shots into your visual field instantaneously - target your selected clip and bring it directly to your playhead or skimmer with a tap.

This is one of those tangible things that makes cutting in X so quick.

The old way is something I don't miss even a tiny bit.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Oliver Peters
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - focusing the question a bit
on Sep 18, 2015 at 8:37:00 pm

[Bill Davis] "The idea of having to use sequence string-outs as a way to locate shots seems positively prehistoric to me now."

LOL. There are certainly a lot of editors who would vehemently disagree. I'm not saying you are wrong, but it's simply two different working styles.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Bill Davis
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - focusing the question a bit
on Sep 18, 2015 at 8:50:40 pm

[Oliver Peters] "LOL. There are certainly a lot of editors who would vehemently disagree. I'm not saying you are wrong, but it's simply two different working styles."

Absolutely.

When you've done nothing but pick from stringouts for years - it's how you think.

A couple of years ago when I was doing some work with transitioning editors, that's ALWYS where they went directly after the IMPORT stage..
"How do we make a quick timeline so we can spread out selects and start to work with them?"
"Uh. You don't need to in X."

Confused the heck out of them at first. Then they'd finally "get" ranges and the database and I'd never hear about it again.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Oliver Peters
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - focusing the question a bit
on Sep 18, 2015 at 9:12:12 pm

[Bill Davis] "When you've done nothing but pick from stringouts for years - it's how you think."

There are many valid reasons for doing this. Certainly FCPX's method has a lot of strengths, but let me explains a workflow on a documentary I cut back in the FCP7 days. About 65 hours of footage, mostly interviews.

1. Stingout selects by person
2. Rearrange selects (new sequences) according to topics
3. Rearrange item 2 (new sequences) to use the best person's statements about each topic making sure to stay diverse - thus eliminating repeated statements on the same topic
4. Combine item 3 (new sequences) into story flow
5. Rearrange/recut/refine item 4 (new sequences) to get to a final version

While FCPX's methods would let you do some of this, you completely miss the flow going from person to person as you try to assess content, but also nuances, like facial expressions, emotions, etc. You also miss the way your brain reacts when going from one person to the next, depending on how you've juxtaposed them.

A lot of feature editors have their assistants create selects stringouts that go like this. Every line reading within a scene from every take and every angle is edited back-to-back-to-back with shots in the order of wide to close-up for each line. This creates one long sequence for the scene with lots of repeats. The editor can immediately see all the coverage for a scene and immediately compare performances, camera angles, camera moves, framing, etc. Again the FCPX database permits some of this, but not all of it.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Andrew Kimery
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - focusing the question a bit
on Sep 18, 2015 at 9:51:55 pm

The different organizational style in X is probably the thing I'm most curious about digging into. I've had some stops and starts recently w/X but I've ended being too busy with one thing or another to commit any serious time to it.

I have a love/hate relationship with pulling selects (in any capacity) because what's usable and what's unusable changes so often throughout the course of a documentary. On one hand I have to pare down the footage to get it manageable, but on the other hand I hate banishing footage to a dark corner where I might forget about it. Hence the reason I'm experimenting with an 11hr selects reel. I drop markers (all searchable) on things I think might be useful, but I also leave super fat handles so I can quickly look around those areas of interest if need be. Even with the fat handles I'll still often match frame back to the source clip and scour through that looking for just the right shot or sound bite.

Many times zipping through footage for the umpteenth time looking for the shot I want will allow me to find the shot I need.


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Bill Davis
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - focusing the question a bit
on Sep 19, 2015 at 12:16:03 am

All of which works fluidly in X.

Everything is just a metadata pointer to the defined range of the clip sequestered in storage. So no matter what you do to trim or reject anything - even if you've only used a tiny sliver of it where you're working now - you have the ability to look upstream or downstream, roll out the boundaries, or just go hunting amongst all your original footage at any point.

Super flexible for those with a "footage miner" perspective.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Andrew Kimery
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - focusing the question a bit
on Sep 19, 2015 at 12:37:25 am

[Bill Davis] "Super flexible for those with a "footage miner" perspective."

Footage miner... I'm going to use that. ;)

The Smart Collections auto update, right, so every time I give a clip the proper keyword it will automatically show up in the corresponding Smart Collection? If I create a timeline (sequence? you know what I mean...) from a smart collection will the timeline auto update as well when something is added to the smart collection?


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Bill Davis
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - focusing the question a bit
on Sep 19, 2015 at 8:50:17 am

Not really, Andrew.

What you are describing are regular applied keywords. Smart collections are based on rules you set up and require no action on the editors part. A smart collection for say "Audio" or "Red Files shot on Thursday" just automatically contain anything that meets the rules.

And metadata in X flows downstream and is cumulative.

What you apply in your storyline does not flow back upstream to alter the master with a few exceptions like compound clips.

If you place a color clip into a project and decide to make it black and white - the desaturation ONLY effects the project clip. If you place the same clip into another project it's still in color.

If you want to make the clip globally black and white - you apply the desaturation upstream in the event - and then the metadata change flows to all uses until you go back upstream and remove the effect.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Bill Davis
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - focusing the question a bit
on Sep 18, 2015 at 11:33:34 pm
Last Edited By Bill Davis on Sep 18, 2015 at 11:59:53 pm

[Oliver Peters] "While FCPX's methods would let you do some of this, you completely miss the flow going from person to person as you try to assess content, but also nuances, like facial expressions, emotions, etc. You also miss the way your brain reacts when going from one person to the next, depending on how you've juxtaposed them."

Sorry, Oliver but I almost totally reject that reasoning.

Here's some of a current X project I'm editing.

It too, is non-scripted and interview-driven.

Step 1 Import EVERYTHING. (this is what X looks like - (non-X editors note the ALL CLIPS filter in the upper left corner of the thumnails)



Step 2 REJECT TAG anything but when the interviewees are talking coherently or when you have usable material, so tumbles, blown takes, etc. HIDE REJECT - and VOILA - you have ONLY the possible soundbites and USEFUL shots left. Her 20 minute interview is now maybe 15 pre-trimmed USEFUL clips - everything else is hidden - but retrievable with a click.
This is what X looks like then: (note Hide Rejected filter.)



Step 3 TAG just these possibles by individual and class (B-Roll, Interview, Patrick, Graphics, etc.) This is EASY because it's visual and you can take every clip of, for example, Jenny as a talking head - and just drop it on the Jenny Keyword and those clips ALL inherit the keyword. It's lightening fast to tag stuff once you learn how.

NOW...

Step 4. Need a "string-out?" do a virtual one. Heck, do 10. There's no bloat penalty. Just open a Project. Go to the PATRICK keyword, or the INTERVIEWS keyword, or any other bucket. Sort, select all. And tap Q.
And here's where X gets REALLY interesting. I get an INSTANT string-out upon which I can slap timecode and quick email or web export a window burn of the result like this...




And it's suddenly my "inside collaborators cut" to email out.

We discuss the stuff, pick our favorites then do our "outside collaborators cut" like this...

.

Every "best take" gets an ID tag. (Basically, circle takes get circle tags, so to speak.) NOW we've got something to discuss easily with producers, clients or other stakeholders.

Order of scenes problems? Magnetism to the rescue. Grab the scene and drag it where you like - everything closes up and stays perfect. It's the ULTIMATE "let me see my rough-cut with everything in context and yet easy to change" arrangement. Better than any non-magnetic string-out I've ever seen.

Basically, I'm doing EXACTLY what you're doing - but with the HUGE advantage of the database nand magnetism helping me at every turn - saving ALL my thinking and choices as I go. I can just click the class in my keyword collection, target the needed clip - and BOOM - it's in my story as an insert, connected clip, or audition.

My old string-outs were just disconnected clips on a disconnected timeline - learning from nothing and communicating with nothing. Mine are live, connected and interactive.

And remember, I can reorder and re-sort at ANY project stage. Magnetically. swap clips with abandon. Before, during and after they arrive on the storyline. Thats what databases DO.

And I have ALL the facial expressions, nuances and even actual performances I could possibly ever want while I'm editing.

It gives me everything I had organizing the old way - but with major new capabilities and speed.

Which, yes, requires new thinking, new learning, and even some new creativity as you architect your tagging, sorting and workflow preferences. But it seems like I have everything you have AND some outstanding new tools I can use to make things easier. It's a no-brainer for me.

Just how I think as a editor with new tools.

FWIW.

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Oliver Peters
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - focusing the question a bit
on Sep 18, 2015 at 11:56:47 pm

[Bill Davis] "Just how I think as a editor with new tools. "

Zero sum gain. Two ways to get to the same result with no advantage of one over the other. Just preference. And yes, I use keywording, favorites and rejects, too.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - focusing the question a bit
on Sep 19, 2015 at 2:16:01 am

[Bill Davis] "Just how I think as a editor with new tools.
"


In a way I'm not surprised you think you have that, given apple want you to think that. On some level, you got sold. FCPX is a carny circus really. They reformulated all basic edit operations into a three shell game and waited for the rubes at the door. You were the rubes.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Bill Davis
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - focusing the question a bit
on Sep 22, 2015 at 7:00:29 am

The Rubes.
Interesting idea.
The Carnys take their money and laugh at them.
The "Rubes" go home a little poorer sure. - but with some memories of the flashy lights - go back to useful work, likely a wife and kids - and build a life.
The Carnys get in a trailer - move town to town - stick only with their own kind - and hope their circus doesn't go bust.
Cuz the Carny EXISTS exclusively to take money from the Rubes. In exchange for as little return value as they can give back in exchange.

Proud to hang with the "Rubes" I guess.

A life paying rent to the carny owners... and who needs that?

; )

Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com - video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - focusing the question a bit
on Sep 23, 2015 at 7:35:58 pm

yeah - I was talking total bollocks there.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - looking for serious discussion
on Sep 18, 2015 at 10:03:09 pm

because, taken as a whole, it's the best editing system on the market by a country mile, but I fully understand that some aspects of the are "meh". :)

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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Jeff Markgraf
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - looking for serious discussion
on Sep 19, 2015 at 6:41:23 am

Sigh. Aindreas, I know you enjoy trolling. But "best...by a country mile" says exactly nothing of use.

What, for you, makes PPro the best? In this case, I'm asking about specifics of the day to day editing process. Like, "love the way trim mode can be selected with a right-click" or "man, right clicking to set the dissolve rate is so much better than the dissolve dialogue box that avid puts up every time...and I sure don't miss having it remember my last duration!"

For that matter, what do YOU find "meh" about PPro?


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Gabe Strong
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - looking for serious discussion
on Sep 21, 2015 at 7:33:01 pm
Last Edited By Gabe Strong on Sep 21, 2015 at 10:28:53 pm

Eh.....and then there is that subscription thing. Which puts it at the back of
the pack of NLE's by two county leagues (that's like almost 6 miles).

In all honesty, NLEs are kind of like cameras. They all have stengths and
weaknesses and there isn't a perfect one out there.


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Andy Field
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - looking for serious discussion
on Sep 21, 2015 at 8:09:38 pm

Back to original premise (boy do these threads fly off into a ditch)

Why I like Premiere

The simplest answer is - it is FCP 7 on steroids.

I was a whiz at FCP 7 - could use the keyboard with my eyes closed...it did everything nicely but play well with all formats - and the incessant rendering

Premiere Pro CC - and 6 to an extent - although CC versions are light years better and more feature packed - is what I suspect most FCP 7 editors were looking for in FCP 8.

Clip collisions a problem? Not for any editor I know -- easily prevented - but FCP X was built with what appeared to be the solution to this dreaded non-issue.

If you've edited on FCP 7 - I can have you editing in Premiere Pro - using the same keyboard shortcuts (they let you select them) in less than an hour

no transcoding
great audio mixer
great roundtripping for audio and effects cleanup
great output to a variety of different codecs - all in the background while you continue working (yes I know FCP X does this but am pretty sure it's not a background function - that it stops when you stress the machine in editing or anything computing intensive - maybe wrong - please correct if I am.)

Bottom Line -- if you liked FCP 7 and are proficient - this is a very easy switch with the advantage of editing anything in any timeline quickly.

Andy Field
FieldVision Productions
N. Bethesda, Maryland 20852


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Christian Schumacher
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - looking for serious discussion
on Sep 21, 2015 at 9:45:48 pm

[Andy Field] "Bottom Line -- if you liked FCP 7 and are proficient - this is a very easy switch with the advantage of editing anything in any timeline quickly.
"


And under Adobe there's a long developing path for the software, while the same isn't true of Apple - the only thing they did was to give X a ten year life plan.


http://blogs.adobe.com/premierepro/2015/09/premiere-pro-cc-ibc.html


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Tim Wilson
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - looking for serious discussion
on Sep 21, 2015 at 11:29:15 pm

[Christian Schumacher] " the only thing they did was to give X a ten year life plan."

...of which we've just entered Year 5.

It's worth noting that, midway through FCP's 12-year life, all of its major features were more or less in place. Multicam was the last big one, in 2005.

Pro Res came 2 years later of course, but, not to diminish its importance, it's a bit of a stretch to call it a feature. More of a codec, or at best a workflow support platform.*

This is pretty typical of Apple's pattern. Ship wet, dry quickly with front-loaded development, then solidify on a slow march offstage.

Following the same pattern, there might be one more major feature plus a workflow enhancement along the way, but really, barring an unprecedented shift in strategy, we've seen juuuuuust about all the major feature development from X that we're likely to see.

For the multitudes, the current feature set is clearly enough. Godspeed to you, my friends, with highest hopes for Send to Motion someday.

(Is Send to Motion a feature or a workflow enhancement? I'm thinking "feature," and I'd be fine if this was the last major feature to be implemented before we say goodbye.)

However, the contrast with the scope, scale, and pace of Adobe's development couldn't possibly be more stark.


*It's worth noting that Pro Res was a variation on DNxHD, which Avid released 4 years earlier. Same compression technology, same workflow...oops, except Apple forgot to support alpha channels.

So, following the same pattern, whichever new workflow paradigm Apple will introduce in the next phase of X's life already exists somewhere else, and will be implemented with at least one important component missing. LOL


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Oliver Peters
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - looking for serious discussion
on Sep 21, 2015 at 11:42:16 pm

[Tim Wilson] "...of which we've just entered Year 5.
It's worth noting that, midway through FCP's 12-year life, all of its major features were more or less in place. Multicam was the last big one, in 2005."


When I've spoken to various software developers who sell through the Mac App Store, they seem to plan on about 2 years of ongoing development. Then that's it, except for maintenance releases. The reason is because there's no more money to be had. I'm not saying that those same numbers are in play with Apple and FCP X, but I've got to believe some variation of that thinking is a factor.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Jim Wiseman
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - looking for serious discussion
on Sep 22, 2015 at 12:00:40 am
Last Edited By Jim Wiseman on Sep 22, 2015 at 12:02:24 am

[Oliver Peters] "When I've spoken to various software developers who sell through the Mac App Store, they seem to plan on about 2 years of ongoing development. Then that's it, except for maintenance releases. The reason is because there's no more money to be had."

I have to disagree a bit here. The universities and media departments of other schools are cranking out new young media artists and editors at a very rapid clip. The media school here at the University of Hawaii is one of the most popular programs there. I'm sure that is true all over the country. Look at the popularity of DSLR video and other affordable camera sales. This is an expanding market, not one that once you have sold an app with a specific function to the members of an existing market your sales are basically finished.

FCPX is uniquely positioned due to its affordability and ease of use to appeal to that expanding market. Not to mention the continued popularity of the Mac showing year over year growth, unlike many other manufacturers products. Apple has a good reason to keep FCPX moving ahead. It builds the brand, creates a user base, and sells computers. The dollars come from the Macs and the App Store. Can't see FCPX compared to often single or limited function apps sold there.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1, Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Pro X 10.2.1, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.6, Premiere Pro CS 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K, Blackmagic Teranex, Avid MC, 2013 Mac Pro Hexacore, 1TB SSD, 64GB RAM, 2-D500, Helios 2 w 2-960GB SSDs: 2012 Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz, 24Gb RAM, GTX-680, 960GB SSD: Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 16GB RAM 250GB SSD, Multiple OWC Thunderbay 4 TB2 and eSATA QX2 RAID 5 HD systems


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Oliver Peters
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - looking for serious discussion
on Sep 22, 2015 at 12:10:08 am

[Jim Wiseman] "The media school here at the University of Hawaii is one of the most popular programs there. I'm sure that is true all over the country. Look at the popularity of DSLR video and other affordable camera sales. This is an expanding market, not one that once you have sold an app with a specific function to the members of an existing market your sales are basically finished."

While that's true, the dynamics that affect FCP X are the same dynamics that affect Pixelmator and Serif, too. The point is, FCP X can continue to sell just fine "as is" with no new features to speak of, for the remainder of the 10-year plan.

[Jim Wiseman] " Apple has a good reason to keep FCPX moving ahead. It builds the brand, creates a user base, and sells computers. The dollars come from the Macs and the App Store. Can't see FCPX compared to often single or limited function apps sold there."

Apple has a terrible track record of moving anything ahead indefinitely. For all we know, Apple's plan 5 years from now might no longer include computers. It might only be cars, watches and phones.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Jim Wiseman
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - looking for serious discussion
on Sep 22, 2015 at 1:00:36 am
Last Edited By Jim Wiseman on Sep 22, 2015 at 1:02:33 am

[Oliver Peters] "While that's true, the dynamics that affect FCP X are the same dynamics that affect Pixelmator and Serif, too. The point is, FCP X can continue to sell just fine "as is" with no new features to speak of, for the remainder of the 10-year plan."

I really can't see how one compares Pixelmator and Serif software with FCPX. It is much more permanently and inextricably tied to the Apple ecosystem (which I vastly prefer) than those two marginally market penetrating still image programs. I can't believe too many people run out and buy tricked out Mac Pros or MacBook Pros to run Pixelmator. My new MacBook Pro, loaded, arrives today, BTW. Very anxious to see FCPX run on it, from what I have read, it screams. Metal is on the way with El Capitan. So much for no further development. OSX advances are automatically leveraged in FCPX, Motion, and Compressor for that matter. And as much as I respect Tim's opinion, I've seen no official 10 Year Plan announced anywhere else. If it does evolve in another five years I will be happy to see where it goes.

Regarding the Elephant that is obviously taking up most of the room, the fact that FCPX is non-rental and my projects will be viable without further payment with nothing disappearing makes my choice easy. Even if I didn't prefer it to Premiere.

BTW, I never used FCP7 to any extent but relied on Media 100 and Avid Media Composer, so I don't miss it's pay forever replacement.

[Oliver Peters] "For all we know, Apple's plan 5 years from now might no longer include computers. It might only be cars, watches and phones."

More likely we will see quite a few companies now making PC's no longer in that business. Apple without computers is not going to happen. One thing you can be sure of, Apple will still be in business and one of the world's largest, most profitable companies.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1, Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Pro X 10.2.2, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.6, Premiere Pro CS 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K, Blackmagic Teranex, Avid MC, 2013 Mac Pro Hexacore, 1TB SSD, 64GB RAM, 2-D500, Helios 2 w 2-960GB SSDs: 2012 Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz, 24Gb RAM, GTX-680, 960GB SSD: Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 16GB RAM 250GB SSD, Multiple OWC Thunderbay 4 TB2 and eSATA QX2 RAID 5 HD systems


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Oliver Peters
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - looking for serious discussion
on Sep 22, 2015 at 1:55:33 am

[Jim Wiseman] "I really can't see how one compares Pixelmator and Serif software with FCPX."

All these apps appeal to creative enthusiasts and in the case of FCP X, Motion and Pixelmator, they continue to be top grossers in the App Store. FCP X and the still image programs appeal to a growing market and are intrinsically locked to the Mac OS core technologies.

[Jim Wiseman] "I can't believe too many people run out and buy tricked out Mac Pros or MacBook Pros to run Pixelmator."

I doubt that the majority of FCP X users are running on top-of-the-line machines either.

[Jim Wiseman] "OSX advances are automatically leveraged in FCPX, Motion, and Compressor for that matter. "

Yes and no. I've already heard from developers that Metal breaks things that the FCP X ecosystem ties into. So some of the FCP X feature development cycles are gone in an effort to keep up with the OS changes.

[Jim Wiseman] "I've seen no official 10 Year Plan announced anywhere else"

To my knowledge that's what was stated in the original presentations. But I have nothing to point to unless someone wants to dig up videos of the original SuperMeet presentation to see for sure.

[Jim Wiseman] "the fact that FCPX is non-rental and my projects will be viable without further payment with nothing disappearing makes my choice easy"

Haven't you beaten that horse to death :-)

[Jim Wiseman] "More likely we will see quite a few companies now making PC's no longer in that business. Apple without computers is not going to happen. One thing you can be sure of, Apple will still be in business and one of the world's largest, most profitable companies"

I agree that's quite likely, but never say never. I think most users thought Apple would continue to make towers longer than they did. As someone who has helped set up facilities, I can certainly point to customers who were burned by relying on Xserve, Xserve RAID and Final Cut Server. In fact, one of the clients I routinely edit for (a broadcast group), went to PC and Adobe because of their dealings with Apple. Buying and building a business around Apple products can be a very good bet - IF you get in at the right time in the cycle - and, IF you are willing to retool every few years. Some people are cool with that and others aren't.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Jim Wiseman
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - looking for serious discussion
on Sep 22, 2015 at 2:33:46 am
Last Edited By Jim Wiseman on Sep 22, 2015 at 2:52:47 am

That horse continues to be eating the hay, and is the only reason I dropped Premiere in the first place. Edited one project on CS6 and was looking forward to the next version. A horse that I wish I could beat to death, yet it continues to live. I'm not the only one trying to kill it.

Can't believe that Metal wouldn't be of great use to any app that requires rendering as FCPX certainly does. Adobe at the El Capitan event said it sped up many rendering functions in AE by 8x, which they demonstrated. For it not to be an advantage to Apple's code in FCPX seems hard to believe. Have to admit that there will be some disruption before everything gets sorted out though. I also must admit I bought the MacBook Pro so that it would come with Yosemite, which I have debugged for my workflow. I'm sure the advantages of Metal will be more than worth it eventually.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1, Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Pro X 10.2.2, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.6, Premiere Pro CS 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K, Blackmagic Teranex, Avid MC, 2013 Mac Pro Hexacore, 1TB SSD, 64GB RAM, 2-D500, Helios 2 w 2-960GB SSDs: 2012 Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz, 24Gb RAM, GTX-680, 960GB SSD: Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 16GB RAM 250GB SSD, Multiple OWC Thunderbay 4 TB2 and eSATA QX2 RAID 5 HD systems


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Andrew Kimery
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - looking for serious discussion
on Sep 22, 2015 at 3:47:15 am

[Jim Wiseman] "For it not to be an advantage to Apple's code in FCPX seems hard to believe."

I think Oliver's point is that apps (including FCP X) will need to be coded to take advantage of Metal and time spent coding for Metal is time not spent on other features.


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Jim Wiseman
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - looking for serious discussion
on Sep 22, 2015 at 4:09:20 am

I'm sure that is the case, Andrew. Adobe must be spending time on Metal coding as well. The AE demo was pretty convincing. I think both companies will be spending time on coding for Metal that will have big payoffs but will also have to give up engineering time that could be used to develop new features. I just find it hard to believe that Apple, after moving to Metal, would not take advantage of it in FCPX. I also doubt that development of FCPX is not moving ahead.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1, Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Pro X 10.2.2, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.6, Premiere Pro CS 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K, Blackmagic Teranex, Avid MC, 2013 Mac Pro Hexacore, 1TB SSD, 64GB RAM, 2-D500, Helios 2 w 2-960GB SSDs: 2012 Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz, 24Gb RAM, GTX-680, 960GB SSD: Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 16GB RAM 250GB SSD, Multiple OWC Thunderbay 4 TB2 and eSATA QX2 RAID 5 HD systems


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Shawn Miller
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - looking for serious discussion
on Sep 22, 2015 at 5:53:30 pm
Last Edited By Shawn Miller on Sep 22, 2015 at 6:47:18 pm

[Oliver Peters] "In fact, one of the clients I routinely edit for (a broadcast group), went to PC and Adobe because of their dealings with Apple."

I know of two agencies in town that did the same thing. They were due for hardware and software refreshes and they went PC/Avid or PC/Adobe instead of Apple/FCPX. Anecdotally, I personally know over a dozen motion graphics and VFX artists who switched from Apple to other PC integrators because they couldn't get the hardware they wanted from Apple.

Shawn



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Andrew Kimery
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - looking for serious discussion
on Sep 22, 2015 at 7:14:11 pm

[Shawn Miller] "I know of two agencies in town that did the same thing. They were due for hardware and software refreshes and they went PC/Avid or PC/Adobe instead of Apple/FCPX. Anecdotally, I personally know over a dozen motion graphics and VFX artists who switched from Apple to other PC integrators because they couldn't get the hardware they wanted from Apple."

I'm getting flashbacks to 10yrs or so ago when people got fed up dealing with Avid (corporate attitude, support contracts, hardware lock-in, etc.,.) and moved to FCP.


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Jim Wiseman
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - looking for serious discussion
on Sep 22, 2015 at 8:23:23 am

4444

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1, Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Pro X 10.2.2, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.6, Premiere Pro CS 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K, Blackmagic Teranex, Avid MC, 2013 Mac Pro Hexacore, 1TB SSD, 64GB RAM, 2-D500, Helios 2 w 2-960GB SSDs: 2012 Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz, 24Gb RAM, GTX-680, 960GB SSD: Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 16GB RAM 250GB SSD, Multiple OWC Thunderbay 4 TB2 and eSATA QX2 RAID 5 HD systems


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Andrew Kimery
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - looking for serious discussion
on Sep 22, 2015 at 3:43:40 pm

[Jim Wiseman] "4444"

The original ProRes release w/FCP 6 didn't include 4444 or Proxy (those came later with FCP 7).


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Jim Wiseman
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - looking for serious discussion
on Sep 22, 2015 at 8:41:18 pm
Last Edited By Jim Wiseman on Sep 22, 2015 at 8:47:55 pm

Yes, Andrew, I know they both (4444 and Proxy) came later, but wanted to point out the continued development. One could mention quite a bit of Adobe software that has remained moribund. Big push on Premiere these days to pick up the FCP7 people and keep subscribers happy with rental and CC, but not a lot being done with some of the other titles. The Metal demo on El Capitan at the Apple intro was the first major speed improvement I've seen shown in AE in a long time. Adobe is claiming up to 8x faster with Metal for realtime playback. Check it out on the Apple site stream of the event. Very impressive. Speed improvement has been the source of many complaints regarding AE here and the other board. Supposedly Adobe is paying attention to that. Maybe next release. Monopoly of a sector (mograph) is not a great thing for anyone. Changes in their print and design software has been very slow. Apple has momentum with FCPX, and I can't see them ignoring improvements in it.

BTW, I never thought DNxHD, was as good as the highest quality ProRes. ProRes has become the standard. DNx always seemed noisier in the dark areas to me. YMMV.

Jim Wiseman
Sony PMW-EX1, Pana AJ-D810 DVCPro, DVX-100, Nikon D7000, Final Cut Pro X 10.2.2, Final Cut Studio 2 and 3, Media 100 Suite 2.1.6, Premiere Pro CS 5.5 and 6.0, AJA ioHD, AJA Kona LHi, Blackmagic Ultrastudio 4K, Blackmagic Teranex, Avid MC, 2013 Mac Pro Hexacore, 1TB SSD, 64GB RAM, 2-D500, Helios 2 w 2-960GB SSDs: 2012 Hexacore MacPro 3.33 Ghz, 24Gb RAM, GTX-680, 960GB SSD: Macbook Pro 17" 2011 2.2 Ghz Quadcore i7 16GB RAM 250GB SSD, Multiple OWC Thunderbay 4 TB2 and eSATA QX2 RAID 5 HD systems


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Gabe Strong
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - looking for serious discussion
on Sep 21, 2015 at 10:32:54 pm

Sorry, my original response was cut off somehow when I posted.
I have edited it to include the part that was cut off.

As to FCPX and if it can output while you continue to edit...yeah you can.
There are two ways to output, one using the 'share' menu and another by
exporting to Compressor.

Gabe Strong
G-Force Productions
http://www.gforcevideo.com


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Eric Santiago
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - looking for serious discussion
on Sep 22, 2015 at 12:19:31 pm

As I check in this post time to time the bugs in Premiere CC 2014 is starting to get to me.
Im glad Im not in it as much as the editor but I cant fathom editing another feature in this version.
Keep in mind these bugs do have other culprits in hand such as Resolve and REDCINE-X.
I know for a fact that I didnt run into any round-trip issues with FCPX/Avid when it comes to big projects.


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Brian Seegmiller
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - looking for serious discussion
on Oct 2, 2015 at 8:43:53 pm

If you export your project in PP using PP and play your timeline or a clip the encode will stop. Oh wait...you can't edit at all. If you "send to queue" to media encoder the encode will stop if you play a clip in PP. This works the same way in FCP X except if you send to compressor your encode will not stop if you play a clip in FCP X or edit.


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Aindreas Gallagher
Re: "Why I like Premiere Pro" - looking for serious discussion
on Sep 23, 2015 at 7:35:13 pm

[Gabe Strong] "In all honesty, NLEs are kind of like cameras. They all have stengths and
weaknesses and there isn't a perfect one out there."


yep, that's the truth of it.

http://vimeo.com/user1590967/videos http://www.ogallchoir.net promo producer/editor.grading/motion graphics


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